Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Moderator: James Robinson
Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
This is it. Jen Steadman is on the verge of becoming many things. First and foremost is an octochamp. Secondly is the likely title of undisputed greatest female player in the 15 round era, if not of all time (The highest score by a woman in the 9 round era I believe is Lucy Roberts' 504, which I'm not sure how that'd scale compared to Jen). Thirdly is her seeding. A loss puts her at a solid number 3. A win with 113 or more will put her at number 2, and a win of 142 or more will put her ahead of Dylan Taylor and break the all time record (Tricky, but doable). If she scores 67 or more, this will be the 3rd member of the 900 club in the finals, which is handily the record (I don't think any other season had more than 1). Let's see how it all plays out.
Join Jack for the recap later.
Join Jack for the recap later.
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- Acolyte
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
The highest-scoring female octochamp over 15 rounds (up to now) looks to me like Grace Page with 829, the only female over 800 points - so that record has gone after Jen's seven games. Lucy Robert's total would crudely equate to 840 points in 15-rounders, but that figure will be massively surpassed today unless Jen disintegrates after 6 points. Hubristic Jen is certainly not, but James could go hullaballistic ...
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
ENORMOUS in round 7. Surely something better in round 8 too?
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
VESICLE (8) R8
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
VESICLE, I think?
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Congrats to Jen on a great run, very well deserved female records, even if you do get sick of hearing about them. It's going to be an exciting finals with you, Dylan, Glen and possibly Zarte if he makes it.
I thought your opponent played very well too and would certainly have been capable of winning a few on another week. In fact, you've had a fairly strong set of opponents overall.
I thought your opponent played very well too and would certainly have been capable of winning a few on another week. In fact, you've had a fairly strong set of opponents overall.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Well done to Jen Steadfast Steadman for scoring the same as her 7 round average to make the 8 round calculation earier!
Also well done to Ross for a good game.
Looks like the only other beater available is the last numbers which is supposed to be 99% difficult.
Which of the 4-large experts got it I wonder?
Also well done to Ross for a good game.
Looks like the only other beater available is the last numbers which is supposed to be 99% difficult.
Which of the 4-large experts got it I wonder?
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Doesn't really count as I was way out of time but here's what I eventaully did:Tony Atkins wrote: Looks like the only other beater available is the last numbers which is supposed to be 99% difficult.
Which of the 4-large experts got it I wonder?
(100x50x2-75)/25+7= 404. Got to 403 in the time using a similar method but didn't see that until much later.
I also completely disagree with the 99% difficulty rating as if you're a practised 4L player, that's the sort of method you look for.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Very well done, Jen, on a great set of games during your octorun.
The quarters are shaping up nicely.
The quarters are shaping up nicely.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
I think you could hear me go well hullaballistic after Rachel mentioned all of Jen's achievements.Phyl Styles wrote:James could go hullaballistic ...
Was definitely a pleasure seeing all 8 of Jen's games in the comfort of Eddie Mac.
Great to see Jen get to 952 points, she actually wanted to be kept in suspense after her 7th show, but she eventually crumbled and we told her the situation, but me, Eddie, Deeksy and AP were all there supporting her.
To make up for MOUSEBIRD yesterday, I was the only one to spot ENORMOUS in round 7. And AP eventually got the 404 just after the time too, which was great.
And I actually wish I mentioned that the week before I had a premonition that STEADFAST would be Jen's 8th conundrum............ (I only wish I told someone else before it was revealed, so I could try and get some money in a bet. )
Also in the nerd stakes (I was keeping on following this during the run), the only time Jen was not in the lead throughout her run was in the first round of today's show, so she was leading in 119 out of the 120 rounds, she was involved with I somehow doubt anyone's come close to that in their octorun
But, still, a super big well done to Jen for 8 games of pure pleasure that I enjoyed thoroughly.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
(I've been waiting to do that joke for years.)
Congratulations Jen, looking forward to seeing you in the finals. You're not just the best female player ever, you're one of the all-time greats, full stop. Today's challenger was probably the strongest of all your opponents, too.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Interestingly, I was talking to Andy Platt about this just a few weeks ago. He was ahead after 118 of his 120 rounds, and that was the record until today.James Robinson wrote:Also in the nerd stakes (I was keeping on following this during the run), the only time Jen was not in the lead throughout her run was in the first round of today's show, so she was leading in 119 out of the 120 rounds, she was involved with I somehow doubt anyone's come close to that in their octorun
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Haha that's awesome Graeme.
That's awesome Jen. (Not funny.)
That's awesome Jen. (Not funny.)
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
probably more suited to the ask graeme thread but whose the octochamp who was behind in most rounds, i would see that as the greater achievement. it might be Ned P, cos he seemed to go behind a lot
Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
I'm not sure "greater" is the right word. It's "different", sure.Jordan Leckonby wrote:probably more suited to the ask graeme thread but whose the octochamp who was behind in most rounds, i would see that as the greater achievement. it might be Ned P, cos he seemed to go behind a lot
BrilliantGraeme Cole wrote:
I got the 403 (by adding the 75, and not using the 7 at all) in about 5 minutes, and quit fairly happy with that. Didn't see the minor refinement to get to 404 at all! (What actually happened was I spent 2 seconds looking at it, "2, yeah, make another 2, yeah, that's done it", fast-forwarded on to the end, watched open-mouthed as Jen unconfidently declared it not written down, was amazed when she fluffed it, waited for her opponent to show her how ridiculously easy it was, then realised when he did that it had all gone horribly wrong. So I paused and had another go. I reckon I'd have been declaring 407 in the regular 30 seconds...)Jack Worsley wrote:(100x50x2-75)/25+7= 404. Got to 403 in the time using a similar method but didn't see that until much later.
Anyway, brilliant run Jen, absolutely fantastic standard, there should be some cracking games in the finals. Did I see you getting a bit emotional at the end?
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Highest ever % of max???
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Reporting from Budapest... Thanks everyone!
b) Yes - the lovely bit at the end from Rachel made me even more emotional than achieving all the things I wanted to do on the show and more had done! I resolved not to cry until they'd stopped filming in case I was required for any retakes. As soon as the cameras stopped rolling I went over to Mark and cried all over him for about 5 minutes. #TeamMiyagiAndDanielSan
That second day of filming was the best day of my life, I loved every second of it [apart from those few minutes after game 7...] and was so glad that some of my favourite people could be there to watch it and celebrate afterwards Bloody excited about finals and being back on set - if not for actually playing such a high standard of opponent Roll on November! (But only once I've made up for being away from Apterous for 3 weeks with a looot of practice...)
Graeme Cole wrote:
a) I definitely had 402 during the 30 seconds (50*7 + 75 - 25 + 2), but while running through different permutations of numbers I was convinced I'd got 404, but couldn't remember how I'd got there. Thought I'd try it anyway in case it came back to me - given that there's only one solution and it's not one I would ever have thought about, I must have miscalced however I 'did' it. Was a bit nervy because I knew I just needed one of the last 2 rounds to overtake Glen as 2nd seed, but as Ross was a really strong player (esp for a non-Apterite), I thought he might have got it. Didn't realise it was 99% difficulty at the time (And in response to Jack quibbling with Crossword Tools's difficulty rating - I think that if it takes you and Andy five minutes each to solve it [i.e. 10x longer than you get in the studio] when you're the two best 4L players ever, then that alone probably befits a 99% difficulty rating!)Jon Corby wrote:I got the 403 (by adding the 75, and not using the 7 at all) in about 5 minutes, and quit fairly happy with that. Didn't see the minor refinement to get to 404 at all! (What actually happened was I spent 2 seconds looking at it, "2, yeah, make another 2, yeah, that's done it", fast-forwarded on to the end, watched open-mouthed as Jen unconfidently declared it not written down, was amazed when she fluffed it, waited for her opponent to show her how ridiculously easy it was, then realised when he did that it had all gone horribly wrong. So I paused and had another go. I reckon I'd have been declaring 407 in the regular 30 seconds...)
Anyway, brilliant run Jen, absolutely fantastic standard, there should be some cracking games in the finals. Did I see you getting a bit emotional at the end?
b) Yes - the lovely bit at the end from Rachel made me even more emotional than achieving all the things I wanted to do on the show and more had done! I resolved not to cry until they'd stopped filming in case I was required for any retakes. As soon as the cameras stopped rolling I went over to Mark and cried all over him for about 5 minutes. #TeamMiyagiAndDanielSan
I believe I dropped fewer points (72) than anyone else has, if that countsDave Preece wrote:Highest ever % of max???
That second day of filming was the best day of my life, I loved every second of it [apart from those few minutes after game 7...] and was so glad that some of my favourite people could be there to watch it and celebrate afterwards Bloody excited about finals and being back on set - if not for actually playing such a high standard of opponent Roll on November! (But only once I've made up for being away from Apterous for 3 weeks with a looot of practice...)
"There's leaders, and there's followers, but I'd rather be a dick than a swallower" - Aristotle
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Did I just invent a new word and get someone else to use it too?Phyl Styles wrote:
James could go hullaballistic ...
I think you could hear me go well hullaballistic after Rachel mentioned all of Jen's achievements.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Countdown tears of joy are very cute. I only remember you and Graeme (cool gang) but I'm sure there are others. Anybody?
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Do you have examples of games which you think are harder?Jack Worsley wrote:I also completely disagree with the 99% difficulty rating as if you're a practised 4L player, that's the sort of method you look for.
No 99% game has ever been solved on the show, either by a contestant or an arithmetician with or without extra time. This one maintains that record, which suggests that WTP isn't too wide of the mark.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
I got that 404 one in about 5 seconds. It's intuitive if you know what to look for and what order to do it all in. The one that Rachel got in the last CoC final was much harder IMO:
50, 75, 100, 25, 9, 9. Target: 483.
This gets 88% on WTP.
50, 75, 100, 25, 9, 9. Target: 483.
This gets 88% on WTP.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Whether or not a game is solvable using something from a 4 largeist's bag of tricks doesn't make it inherently easier. A fairer test is to put yourself in the position of someone who is arithmetically competent but hasn't studied the numbers game in detail. The 483 example is pretty easy if you notice that is half of 966.
Also, for some reason WTP doesn't put any games in the range 90% - 98%, so 88% is nearer to 99% than it might appear.
Also, for some reason WTP doesn't put any games in the range 90% - 98%, so 88% is nearer to 99% than it might appear.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Why should the difficulty be measured for someone who hasn't studied the numbers game in detail, as opposed to someone who has? I think each way of thinking about the difficulty has its merits, particularly in 4 from the top games.Clive Brooker wrote:Whether or not a game is solvable using something from a 4 largeist's bag of tricks doesn't make it inherently easier. A fairer test is to put yourself in the position of someone who is arithmetically competent but hasn't studied the numbers game in detail. The 483 example is pretty easy if you notice that is half of 966.
Also, for some reason WTP doesn't put any games in the range 90% - 98%, so 88% is nearer to 99% than it might appear.
The difficulty in Rachel's one there is trying 966/2 when there are a hundred other things to try before you consider it, whether you've studied four from the top or not (in fact, knowing lots of tricks that don't apply will probably hinder you in a case like this since you waste time checking.) The 404 solution was literally the first thing I thought of.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
For the 483 one, I wouldn't immediately think of 966/2. Instead I do 50*9 then find the 33 by (100*9-75)/25.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
That's sneaky.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
I meant to look into this when I read this post a few days ago, but only got round to it now.Dave Preece wrote:Highest ever % of max???
In a word, yes.
Jen got 952 out of 1024, which is 92.97%. This beats Dylan Taylor (974/1050 = 92.76%) who in turn beat Craig Beevers, who had held the record for years (907/987 = 91.89%).
However, there is the question of the new format. There are more numbers rounds now and you might say these are usually easier to max than letters rounds. So let's just look at letters...
Top ten 15-round octochamps ordered by percentage of max on letters in their heats. Jen's still top.
Code: Select all
LETTERS SCORE MAX %
1 Jen Steadman 597 627 95.22
2 Dylan Taylor 613 653 93.87
3 Julian Fell 650 701 92.72
4 Jack Hurst 655 717 91.35
5 Edward McCullagh 602 659 91.35
6 Craig Beevers 609 667 91.30
7 Giles Hutchings 609 669 91.03
8 Andy Platt 620 682 90.91
9 Kirk Bevins 644 711 90.58
10 Chris Davies 626 693 90.33
Code: Select all
OCTOTAL MAX %
1 Jen Steadman 937.95 1007.45 93.10
2 Dylan Taylor 957.55 1036.05 92.42
3 Craig Beevers 907 987 91.89
4 Jack Hurst 946 1031 91.76
5 Edward McCullagh 896 979 91.52
6 Julian Fell 924 1015 91.03
7 Giles Hutchings 954.40 1049.15 90.97
8 Kirk Bevins 925 1031 89.72
9 David O'Donnell 880 995 88.44
10 Chris Davies 892 1013 88.06
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
What about maxes out of 120? Wasn't it decided that that was a better measure?
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
I don't know how long we can go on without some kind of automated procedure that judges a particular spot's difficulty in terms of the selection. Building up stats like this would surely be beastly progress to judging octoruns, right?
Finding an easy max 8, something like RELATION or whatever, when it's going to be a super easy spot to most players (and always has at least one alternative) counts for the same in terms of % of max and total number of maxes than spotting some mental 8 which is very low probability and darrenic, and differentiating the two would be a huge advance, right?
Obviously some decent work would be required on a couple of counts, both specific to the word itself and specific to the selection it was found in, but that would be pretty exciting work, right?
Right.
Finding an easy max 8, something like RELATION or whatever, when it's going to be a super easy spot to most players (and always has at least one alternative) counts for the same in terms of % of max and total number of maxes than spotting some mental 8 which is very low probability and darrenic, and differentiating the two would be a huge advance, right?
Obviously some decent work would be required on a couple of counts, both specific to the word itself and specific to the selection it was found in, but that would be pretty exciting work, right?
Right.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Definitely. You could argue that this sort of stuff averages out over a run, but if it's close between players, you could easily argue that I doesn't. I think I made up a system in the Ask Graeme thread that had this sort of thinking in mind. But these things are complicated to calculate.
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
Ross was excellent and was very unfortunate to come up against Jen (he was closer to Jen's score than Zarte was to Dylan's when there was a whole big uproar). A nice touch from Damian with the conundrum.
Jen, you are awesome. Congratulations on achieving octochampdom! If I've understood correctly, you never dipped below 12 maxes, which is astonishing! I've thoroughly enjoyed your run and this series is really hotting up now - are finals tickets up for grabs yet?
Jen, you are awesome. Congratulations on achieving octochampdom! If I've understood correctly, you never dipped below 12 maxes, which is astonishing! I've thoroughly enjoyed your run and this series is really hotting up now - are finals tickets up for grabs yet?
Mike Brown: "Round 12: T N R S A E I G U
C1: SIGNATURE (18) ["9; not written down"]
C2: SEATING (7)
Score: 108–16 (max 113)
Another niner for Adam and yet another century. Well done, that man."
C1: SIGNATURE (18) ["9; not written down"]
C2: SEATING (7)
Score: 108–16 (max 113)
Another niner for Adam and yet another century. Well done, that man."
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Re: Spoilers for Tuesday September 10th 2013 (S69 P45)
I don't think there would have been 'uproar' if Zarte had been the challenger. It was only because he already proven himself with 5 wins and an average of 115. He was made to look good, but not exceptional, by Dylan and how many times has a recapper or poster said that the challenger might have done well if they had not come up against such a strong champion. some of those might well have been of the calibre of Zarte.