Des chiffres et des lettres, suite

[Martin Gardner]

I've just spent a month in France and I'm struggling with this damn qwerty keyboard now! I also managed to see DCeDL about 15 times in 30 days which is not bad, and I'd like to make some comparisons. Firstly the standard is incredibly high, in one game both contestants got the maximum from all the letters and numbers games and the game was decided byt one of the duels, other than the duels both players had 94/94. Especially on the numbers they're incredibly good, including one game of six small numbers and the largest numbers was an 8 with a target of 988 was solved, although not by both playedz. I think there are a couple of reasons for this, one DCeDL is a tournament game in Europe like Scrabble and Chess are in this country, so players are of a higher quality and suffer less from nerves. I suspect most Countdown contestants that go on the show and got 30 average 100 at home when the pressures off, but they've never played under pressure before. Secondly, matches in France are best of three, so with six shows a week you need a maximum of 4 contestants - a champion and three challengers. If two matches go to a deciding game, then you only need three contestants a week. Because they choose 6 random numbers rather than a player choosing the numbers, you get six small ones a heck of a lot, whereas on Countdown it's a rare selection so people don't practise it. On the other hand, I've never seen 4 large numbers in France.

The other thing, is for me the style is much better. It's treated like a proper contest a bit like a Scrabble tournament, the players are the focus of the game not the presenters, here in the UK the players rarely talk and it's the presenters and the guests that do all the talking, and I'm sure lots of people like that, but I don't. I think Channel 4 has taken DCeDL and made the format worse. The special guests on Countdown come across as insincere and tend to repeat the same stories or the same type of stories, I'd much rather see guests being honest and sincere, admittedly I'm not sure that would make good television for the general public. I think in France the target are people who play along with the show and consider it to be a real competition, albeit a light-hearted one, and in the UK it's more theatrical and more aimed at people over 65 who principally don't play along with the show or do so not very well.

Martin

[Jon O'Neill]

The other thing, is for me the style is much better. It's treated like a proper contest a bit like a Scrabble tournament

To be honest your argument lost me here. If you think any comparison to a Scrabble tournament positive, then you must accept that a room full of sociopathic, uninteresting, nothing-else-in-their-life-so-need-to-be-good-at-a-board-game-for-self-validation numbskulls really is your cup of tea. Which it might be. Probably is.

(P.S. Spot the projection)

Edit to say, other than that, cool post.

[Damian E]

Martin, the first seven words of your post were marvellous.

[Martin Gardner]

The other thing, is for me the style is much better. It's treated like a proper contest a bit like a Scrabble tournament

To be honest your argument lost me here. If you think any comparison to a Scrabble tournament positive, then you must accept that a room full of sociopathic, uninteresting, nothing-else-in-their-life-so-need-to-be-good-at-a-board-game-for-self-validation numbskulls really is your cup of tea. Which it might be. Probably is.

(P.S. Spot the projection)

Edit to say, other than that, cool post.

I can certainly understand what you're saying, although I was referring to the fact it's taken serious rather than actual Scrabble tournaments in the UK. I wouldn't say it's treated like a sport but it's not treated like an exhibition either. Also of note, the duels are very hard (see the Countdownwiki for details) and only about half of them are solved, but if you buzz in with the wrong answer (which happens a lot) your opponent doesn't get a go, they just get three points automatically.

Martin

[Charlie Reams]

I think your post has attracted a disproportionate amount of negative comment. I don't agree with your conclusions but I thought it was interesting to hear the two programmes compared by one of the few people who have reasonable experience of both.

The standard of French Scrabble also seems to be very high (especially in Duplicate where the top players drop only a few points per game on average.) Is there something about French that lends itself to such high percentages (e.g. the large number of predictable inflections) or is it purely cultural?

[Julie T]

Countdown is definitely more chummy than DCeDL, from the episodes I've seen.
Although my french not being good enough to understand all the chat might just make it seem that way to me.
IMHO I'm not sure that I'd want Countdown to be much more serious. Might have less chance of getting on if I applied anyway!
Nerves are bound to knock a few points off home performance, but 100 down to 30?? I doubt it.

Glad you enjoyed your time in France. I spent 3 weeks in the Vendee with my children in June, but didn't have a TV to watch DCeDL.
I took a few Countdown episodes I'd saved up to play on our portable DVD player so I didn't miss it too much!

[Martin Gardner]

I think your post has attracted a disproportionate amount of negative comment. I don't agree with your conclusions but I thought it was interesting to hear the two programmes compared by one of the few people who have reasonable experience of both.

The standard of French Scrabble also seems to be very high (especially in Duplicate where the top players drop only a few points per game on average.) Is there something about French that lends itself to such high percentages (e.g. the large number of predictable inflections) or is it purely cultural?

I live with a native French speaker and there are competitions for everything in France. In her small town (where she used to live) there was a society for Scrabble, chess, Des Chiffres, handball, football, etc. Everything's done at competition level whereas that culture doesn't seem to exist in this country. I also think English is a harder language because there are more 'forms' words can take, in French you can rule out a lot of possibilities and look for common endings a lot more than you can in English. But I do think it's more cultural than down to the language.

Let's argue for both sides then, in fairness. The contestant I saw was very very good (called Jean Marc, they don't put surnames on the name plates in France) and a lot of the people he beat weren't as good, sometimes offering six when there was an eight for example. I do think they're disproportionally good at the numbers but then for the numbers you get 45 seconds, not 30. I also think there are some other advantages, for example they use a touch screen for all the rounds and I think it's impossible to use a letter that isn't in the selection, in the same way that if you tried to play RETAINS in Scrabble and you didn't have an R, you couldn't do it! I also wonder for the numbers wether when you do 3 x 9 = 27 whether it works it out for you or you actually have to type in 27.

I do find it more like back and 'friendly' than Countdown yet at the same time taken more seriously, and the special guests aren't my thing but you can't please everyone all the time. Also you can appear a maximum of 15 times on Des Chiffres with the best-of-three system which basically means during 23 days in France, I only saw 4 different champions (plus a couple of others when I was out). The duels are quite fun as well although for someone who hasn't lived in France every extremely difficult because they tend to focus on French culture (which is not the same thing as the French language). A lot of duels are about French writers, poets, novels, plays or on the other hand about places in France like towns, cities, rivers and mountains.

So basically, I think it's more the fact that there are over 100 Des chiffres clubs in France as well as national tournaments (I know there's a Belgian national champion of Des chiffres et des lettres, for example).

Martin

[Martin Gardner]

IMHO I'm not sure that I'd want Countdown to be much more serious. Might have less chance of getting on if I applied anyway!
Nerves are bound to knock a few points off home performance, but 100 down to 30?? I doubt it.

Oh I don't know, once you factor in invalid words, declaring nothing on a few numbers games. It wouldn't surprise me at all. A few years ago about 2005 I think they showed some specials and there were two players who were police officers who'd both lost on their first appearance and they did nearly all maximums throughout the game as they knew the only had one game, so they just relaxed and get on with it.

Martin

[Julie T]

I suspect most Countdown contestants that go on the show and got 30 average 100 at home when the pressures off, but they've never played under pressure before.
Martin

IMHO I'm not sure that I'd want Countdown to be much more serious. Might have less chance of getting on if I applied anyway!
Nerves are bound to knock a few points off home performance, but 100 down to 30?? I doubt it.

Oh I don't know, once you factor in invalid words, declaring nothing on a few numbers games. It wouldn't surprise me at all. A few years ago about 2005 I think they showed some specials and there were two players who were police officers who'd both lost on their first appearance and they did nearly all maximums throughout the game as they knew the only had one game, so they just relaxed and get on with it.

Martin

Maybe so. Also, the way that Countdown is scored (having to equal or beat the other contestant to score anything in a round), say there's a game with 2 equally matched players, but one nervous and dropping just one letter a word length off their norm. Perhaps the nervous one would score on easy numbers rounds and the odd letters round where there's only 4 to 6 letter words anyway. 100 usual score down to 30 is quite feasible. I stand corrected!

[Francisco Segura]

I watched on tv french show too. I know countdown show but never watched on tv, only on internet videos. I am a contestant on the spanish tv version called "cifras y letras". The main difference is you can win matchs with no limit. I have win 101 times and I must come back soon to start the next season. Every time you win a match you earn 602 €. What is the prize for winning on DCeDL and Countdown shows?

[Kirk Bevins]

I watched on tv french show too. I know countdown show but never watched on tv, only on internet videos. I am a contestant on the spanish tv version called "cifras y letras". The main difference is you can win matchs with no limit. I have win 101 times and I must come back soon to start the next season. Every time you win a match you earn 602 €. What is the prize for winning on DCeDL and Countdown shows?

That's it, I'm moving to Spain and studying the dictionary - even if I can't speak the language.

[Charlie Reams]

What is the prize for winning on DCeDL and Countdown shows?

The prize for winning one episode of Countdown is the famous goody bag including the exclusive Countdown teapot. After that there are no further prizes unless you win the entire series, for which you receive the complete Oxford English Dictionary (20 leather-bound volumes, worth about £4000.) It's not a good game show to win if you just want cash.

I'm not sure if DCeDL has a cash prize. Martin, any idea?

[Paul Howe]

I watched on tv french show too. I know
countdown show but never watched on tv, only on internet videos. I am a
contestant on the spanish tv version called "cifras y letras". The main
difference is you can win matchs with no limit. I have win 101 times
and I must come back soon to start the next season. Every time you win
a match you earn 602 €. What is the prize for winning on DCeDL and
Countdown shows?

That's it, I'm moving to Spain and studying the dictionary - even if I can't speak the language.

Why bother, you'd just end up losing to Francisco

The
prize for winning one episode of Countdown is the famous
goody bag including
the exclusive Countdown teapot. After that there are no further prizes
unless you win the entire series, for which you receive the complete
Oxford English Dictionary (20 leather-bound volumes, worth about
£4000.) It's not a good game show to win if you just want cash.

I'm not sure if DCeDL has a cash prize. Martin, any idea?

It doesn't sound like the Spanish season has finals at the end, so just to explain, in England the best eight players in the series come back and play a knockout competition, the winner gets the dictionaries and the losing finalist gets £1000 (I think).

[Martin Gardner]

What is the prize for winning on DCeDL and Countdown shows?

The prize for winning one episode of Countdown is the famous goody bag including the exclusive Countdown teapot. After that there are no further prizes unless you win the entire series, for which you receive the complete Oxford English Dictionary (20 leather-bound volumes, worth about £4000.) It's not a good game show to win if you just want cash.

I'm not sure if DCeDL has a cash prize. Martin, any idea?

I can see why there's a limit then, as I don't think I'd want to play someone who's won 101 previous episodes!

For Des Chiffres it's 100 euros per show won. Since matches are made up of two shows, and you can win a maximum of 5 matches, you can make 1000 euros plus the holiday for being an unbeaten player.

Martin

[Joseph Bolas]

What is the prize for winning on DCeDL and Countdown shows?

The prize for winning one episode of Countdown is the famous goody bag including the exclusive Countdown teapot. After that there are no further prizes unless you win the entire series, for which you receive the complete Oxford English Dictionary (20 leather-bound volumes, worth about £4000.) It's not a good game show to win if you just want cash.

I'm not sure if DCeDL has a cash prize. Martin, any idea?

But don't you get £1000 if you get to the final and become the runner-up?

[Kirk Bevins]

What is the prize for winning on DCeDL and Countdown shows?

The prize for winning one episode of Countdown is the famous goody bag including the exclusive Countdown teapot. After that there are no further prizes unless you win the entire series, for which you receive the complete Oxford English Dictionary (20 leather-bound volumes, worth about £4000.) It's not a good game show to win if you just want cash.

I'm not sure if DCeDL has a cash prize. Martin, any idea?

But don't you get £1000 if you get to the final and become the runner-up?

Yes, Paul Howe has already replied regarding that.

[Francisco Segura]

It doesn't sound like the Spanish season has finals at the end, so just to explain, in England the best eight players in the series come back and play a knockout competition, the winner gets the dictionaries and the losing finalist gets £1000 (I think).

There is no finals at the end, I was talking about seasons of games recording. A season lasts 3 months or 65 days (from monday to friday). I don't have to stay 65 days for recording 65 games, I spend a day to record 6 games instead. So I must travel to Madrid and stay there during 13 days in order to record all the games for a season. Then I come back to my town and wait until next season (if I won the last game). Now I am waiting to participate on my third season, people watching the show on tv don't know anything about seasons because all the games are shown without stop, except in summer.

[Jon O'Neill]

It doesn't sound like the Spanish season has finals at the end, so just to explain, in England the best eight players in the series come back and play a knockout competition, the winner gets the dictionaries and the losing finalist gets £1000 (I think).

There is no finals at the end, I was talking about seasons of games recording. A season lasts 3 months or 65 days (from monday to friday). I don't have to stay 65 days for recording 65 games, I spend a day to record 6 games instead. So I must travel to Madrid and stay there during 13 days in order to record all the games for a season. Then I come back to my town and wait until next season (if I won the last game). Now I am waiting to participate on my third season, people watching the show on tv don't know anything about seasons because all the games are shown without stop, except in summer.

This is really awesome. Congratulations for being really awesome.

[Francisco Segura]

Is the same in DCeDL and Countdown?

[Martin Gardner]

Is the same in DCeDL and Countdown?

Is the first half of the question missing, I don't understand.

Martin

[Francisco Segura]

I was asking about how the countdown contestants go to record the tv game show. How many games are recorded per day? How long does it take for recording the entire program?

[Gavin Chipper]

What's with the word "suite" or am I being stupid?

[Jon O'Neill]

I was asking about how the countdown contestants go to record the tv game show. How many games are recorded per day? How long does it take for recording the entire program?

5 shows (one week on TV) a day, blocks of 3 or 4 recording days (a month in a week), 12 weeks a year.

Something like that. Like your one, the game revolves around this structure.