7s that are never the maximum

[Kirk Bevins]

I'm not sure if this has been discovered or discussed before but the PINTERS^ stem with a U gives UNRIPEST but this is not in the dictionary, nor was it in the other ODE. How come it was included by both of me and Charlie -- I'm not sure how it's crept it. I've searched for the word unripest on here and it produces nothing so it's never been discussed since this forum has been created. Any ideas?

[Jason Larsen]

Kirk, I thought that was always the case!

[Kirk Bevins]

Kirk, I thought that was always the case!

You thought UNRIPEST was never in the dictionary?

[Jason Larsen]

Let's see...

That's... an 8!

My apologies, Kirk!

[Martin Gardner]

Just to pick up the point I made on the other thread, there are quite a lot of valid words on Countdown but some of them are never them maximum, or never the only maximum. REREADING and GRENADIER for example, you'd only ever need to play one of them. As Gevin points out you might see one and not the other, this is true, but it doesn't invalidate my point. The same with CANTERS, as has been pointed out it can never be the maximum but it's still possible to play it for a non-maximum.

This is alright for me because I basically only do letters games from memory, so if I see EMIRATES I always see STEAMIER even thought there's no advantage to be gained from it. As with the Hypercountdown conundrums that got published - I couldn't solve any of them, generally because I can only do it by recalling the words from the selection rather than by actually "doing anagrams". Alright maybe not "only" because I can solve a conundrum that I've never seen before, but I still maintain I have very little natural anagramming ability.

Martin

[Martin Gardner]

Kirk, I thought that was always the case!

What was?

Martin

[Gavin Chipper]

As Gevin points out you might see one and not the other, this is true, but it doesn't invalidate my point.

Yes, but your point about never needing to play MAINEST seemed to precede the general discussion about words that never need be declared in theory.

[Jason Larsen]

I thought 7s could always be the maximum, Martin!

[Kirk Bevins]

I thought 7s could always be the maximum, Martin!

Jason, in Countdown you need 3 vowels and if a word such as DEPARTS is spotted (which has 2 vowels) then you know the contestant will ask for at least one other vowel. As it happens, DEPARTS + any vowel produces an 8, eg DEPARTS + O = READOPTS. Therefore DEPARTS will never be the maximum in a round.

[Jason Larsen]

It's funny, because if you're not too good at Countdown, you might find yourself asking for several consecutive vowels at a time. That will make the game that much easier.

If you're a really big fan of Countdown, then you use the strategy you just explained, Kirk.

[Kirk Bevins]

It's funny, because if you're not too good at Countdown, you might find yourself asking for several consecutive vowels at a time. That will make the game that much easier.

If you're a really big fan of Countdown, then you use the strategy you just explained, Kirk.

Having 5 vowels (the maximum number of vowels allowed) in a game, Jason, makes the game harder! Jono is loving it at the moment but it makes it harder. 3 vowels is OK depending on the ugliness of the consonants but 4 vowels is optimal.

What I just explained there was not a strategy as such, but a way of spotting some 8 letter words - if you spot DEPARTS you know to keep looking for an 8 as there definitely will be one, even if you can't remember the table.

[Martin Gardner]

Having 5 vowels (the maximum number of vowels allowed) in a game, Jason, makes the game harder! Jono is loving it at the moment but it makes it harder. 3 vowels is OK depending on the ugliness of the consonants but 4 vowels is optimal.

Funnily enough, people often say that 4 vowels is the optimum, but most of the time Countgen gives longer predicted maximums for 3 vowels. As a general rule, I like to pick a final consonant unless I'm looking for a specific vowel for an eight or nine. Having said that, with very good consonants four vowels probably is best - while practising, twice I had a predicted maximum of 18 (9 letters) if I went for a final vowel!

Martin

[Jon O'Neill]

I'm not sure if this has been discovered or discussed before but the PINTERS^ stem with a U gives UNRIPEST but this is not in the dictionary, nor was it in the other ODE. How come it was included by both of me and Charlie -- I'm not sure how it's crept it. I've searched for the word unripest on here and it produces nothing so it's never been discussed since this forum has been created. Any ideas?

I remember in the earlyish days of Jim's dic (but after you made the list) I went through purging every unspecified UN---ER and UN---EST word. UNRIPEST was one of the ones that got wrongly included.

[Charlie Reams]

Kirk and I did hand-check the words too, but wires must've got crossed somewhere. I'll do an updated version sometime.

[Jason Larsen]

I think having a consecutive number of vowels makes the game easier because you can make shorter words!

[Martin Gardner]

I think having a consecutive number of vowels makes the game easier because you can make shorter words!

But the aim is to make the longest word...

Martin

[Jason Larsen]

That takes you longer to accomplish the aim of the game, I know.

[Kirk Bevins]

That takes you longer to accomplish the aim of the game, I know.

Seriously - I have absolutely no idea of the point to this post.

[Jason Larsen]

Taking your time helps, I know.

Slow and steady wins the Countdown race!