c4countdown

I think Apterous has raised the bar so high now that it is unlikely a non apterite will ever be series champion again.
Discuss.
Not sure if this is in correct thread

Marc Meakin wrote:I think Apterous has raised the bar so high now that it is unlikely a non apterite will ever be series champion again.
Discuss.
Not sure if this is in correct thread

Apterous will provide the champion until at least Series 70 IMO.

I hear that a secret group of Countdown enthusiasts in Dorset are forming a chip which has Countmax and a numbers game solver embedded in it and are planning to insert it into a human brain to create an unbeatable player (though presumably it will be beatable if you keep within ten of it through the game then beat it on the conundrum). Note: this may not be true.

There was a thread a while back about whether a "normal" person would ever win a series again, which was fairly similar to this. But I can't be bothered to find it now.

I think it is possible that a non-apterite could win a series. Although the series just finished had a wealth of Apterous talent, the one before basically relied on Oliver Garner. Had James Rawson made it through, it could have been interesting. Also in Kirk's series, the number two seed was a non-Apterite.

Having said that, I think the trend is probably for there to be more and more Apterites, and Oliver's series may have been a bit of an outlier. And Kirk's series must have been about 34 years ago now.

Edit - Also while there were brilliant pre-Apterous players (Fell, Beevers, Travers, Gallen etc) they probably all would have used Apterous had it been around.

Gavin Chipper wrote:Had James Rawson made it through

Also an apterite.

Craig wasn't an Apterite until after his octochamp run, IIRC, and he did bloody brilliantly. 'Course, you're also assuming both Countdown and apterous will go on indefinitely. (No reason they shouldn't, just examining the variables...) It depends on why you watch it: to compete with the contestants, to play along, to follow the thread of who will be series champion, because you fancy Jeff, etc. It's brilliant to see some of the stunning words and solutions people come up with, but I enjoy a hard-fought battle between a pair of 'normals' or all the face-palm moments of "how did you miss that?" between muppets just as much. Apterous also has some accessibility problems (e.g. you need to be able to use a computer, type, that sort of thing) that Countdown doesn't have, so there's no reason to assume the general audience shouldn't throw up someone brilliant at the game who hasn't practised loads online from time to time.

I should imagine the average viewer beating the average contestant is a massive part of the appeal of the show, so it shouldn't be all about how brilliant the champs are anyway.

Damian wrote: it's a unique oasis of intellectual, enjoyable interactivity in a minefield of televisual shit.

And it should remain such. I hope that for the sake of the show, the standard keeps on increasing. The better the contestants, the more interesting the game. As I've made the point elsewhere, no-one watches Eggheads and moans that Kevin Ashman gets way more questions right than them. I think that those who go on the show should know which verbs it is plausible to make an -ER word out of (e.g. POUNCER x) and know how to spell basic words (e.g. TEAKE x). Joking aside, it pisses me off when Jeff makes comments about obscure words like 'Don't worry Gino - we don't know the meaning of these words either' when DC found an obscure word in one of Gino d'Acampo's shows and 'He speaks a completely different language to us' to Jack. When an obscure word comes up on the show, I think that the variety of the worldwide English language should be celebrated rather than sneered at.

However, to my knowledge, Countdown is one of the few shows where you can actually get through the audition if you're good at it and I think it is the best daytime show around.

Oliver Garner wrote:

Damian wrote:I still think it is the best daytime show around at the moment.

Loose Women all the way.

Ryan Taylor wrote:Loose Women all the way.

We're talking TV, not your hobbies.

Apterous is such an efficient way to practise, that I can't see anyone being better than an Apterite. I might be wrong, though!

i think i am on a no loose situation with my argument, cos either every future champ will be such because of their Apterous experience or every octochamp will visit Apterous to improve their chance of being series champ.
amirite?

Apterous or not, having read some of the games and some words and numbers solutions that come up from players, I'm amazed at 9 years after first appearing, standards would turn out like this. Credit to all those reading who are responsible!

When Julian Fell scored 924 in his Octochamp run 8 years back, I thought 924 would never ever be beaten. Now 3 people have outscored that in what, 2 years?. You could ask, would those who have outscored 924 had Apterous not been around? But that's not taking anything away from the achievement.

I also think Julian would not have used Apterous pre-tournament had it been around because he kept his business quiet and never posted on any forums until after the C of C and as far as I know and from what I remember he knew about them long before. I would have used it back then but not religiously as I never practiced too seriously.

I hardly use Apterous and I'm intrigued to know if there's any dead hot Apterous players due to appear on the show in the next 6 months - 1 year? If all these Apterous players who have or are going to appear in due course then surely we'll run out one day and things will return to normal.

Tom wrote:I hardly use Apterous and I'm intrigued to know if there's any dead hot Apterous players due to appear on the show in the next 6 months - 1 year? If all these Apterous players who have or are going to appear in due course then surely we'll run out one day and things will return to normal.

There are at least 3 serious contenders lined up for next series I think. And then there are a whole host of people who haven't been on the show who currently play apterous and will be much more improved 6 motnhs down the line. I'm pretty sure there will always be at least one person every 6 months who joins apterous and gets hooked becoming pretty decent.

Tom wrote:You could ask, would those who have outscored 924 had Apterous not been around? But that's not taking anything away from the achievement.

But had Apterous not been around they'd have practised in some other way, e.g. handheld game, other online solvers, countdown book etc.

Dan McColm wrote: that I can't see anyone being better than an Apterite. I might be wrong, though!

Several non-apterites are better than several apterites. The discussion is whether they'll be a series winner who's not an apterite. This could happen as one 9 missed by an apterite and tables could turn. It's about consistency and Apterous helps that, sure, but it doesn't help nerves and playing under televisual pressure.

One thing I've always wondered is if it's possible to turn someone Stefan Fatsis-style from a complete amateur into a pro in the space of a few months. And I mean a real amateur in the style of 'only barely aware of the show'. Most people who sign up for apterous will at the very least be fans of the show and already have some degree of skill at the game. Is apterous really enough to create an ubermensch out of a sow's ear?

Shame really that I don't know any 'normal' people sad enough to give it a go.

Ben Wilson wrote:One thing I've always wondered is if it's possible to turn someone Stefan Fatsis-style from a complete amateur into a pro in the space of a few months. And I mean a real amateur in the style of 'only barely aware of the show'. Most people who sign up for apterous will at the very least be fans of the show and already have some degree of skill at the game. Is apterous really enough to create an ubermensch out of a sow's ear?

Shame really that I don't know any 'normal' people sad enough to give it a go.

I know he didn't win the series (but he got to the final), but wasn't Jimmy Gough apparently awful when he started?

But had Apterous not been around they'd have practised in some other way, e.g. handheld game, other online solvers, countdown book etc.[/quote]

That is true, but the point I'm making is people these days have it a lot easier - Apterous is 1000 times more extensive, more fun and beneficial to get good at Countdown than the above and players in the 80's and 90's didn't have an Apterous facility and I doubt those that did revise practiced as hard as some of the Apterous players do.

Players in my time like Scott Mearns and Chris Wills were textbook examples of naturally gifted all rounders, Chris as far as I know never put in hard work before and I'm pretty sure Scott didn't either and just did his thing.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

Ben Wilson wrote:One thing I've always wondered is if it's possible to turn someone Stefan Fatsis-style from a complete amateur into a pro in the space of a few months. And I mean a real amateur in the style of 'only barely aware of the show'. Most people who sign up for apterous will at the very least be fans of the show and already have some degree of skill at the game. Is apterous really enough to create an ubermensch out of a sow's ear?

Shame really that I don't know any 'normal' people sad enough to give it a go.

I know he didn't win the series (but he got to the final), but wasn't Jimmy Gough apparently awful when he started?

Sort of.

Oliver Garner wrote:Joking aside, it pisses me off when Jeff makes comments about obscure words like 'Don't worry Gino - we don't know the meaning of these words either' when DC found an obscure word in one of Gino d'Acampo's shows and 'He speaks a completely different language to us' to Jack. When an obscure word comes up on the show, I think that the variety of the worldwide English language should be celebrated rather than sneered at.

I'm pretty sure you're imagining insults where none was intended.

David Roe wrote: I'm pretty sure you're imagining insults where none was intended.

Most probably, but I was just saying how it came across to me.

Ryan Taylor wrote:There are at least 3 serious contenders lined up for next series I think.

ooh who can we look forward to watching this time?

I'd rather watch a show where people know what they're doing. Ever watch TV Scrabble? I nearly had an aneurysm the other night, the people were so bad. Even Eamon Holmes looked embarrassed for them.