c4countdown

Nobody's saying anything now Countdown's off air, so time for another boring poll.

I fucking love Christmas. I love seeing my family, and the buzz I get out of giving people presents and seeing them smile is like nothing else. I love this time of year.

^What he said

^ What she said.

^ What they both said.

James Robinson wrote:^ What they both said.

^ What they all said (apart from Derek)

Matt Morrison wrote:the buzz I get out of giving people presents and seeing them smile is like nothing else.

Have you tried cocaine?

Jon Corby wrote:

Matt Morrison wrote:the buzz I get out of giving people presents and seeing them smile is like nothing else.

Have you tried cocaine?

No, he prefers to get Merry with Joanna.

Family get together. But we have them about four times a year anyway, so the fact that it's Christmas on this occasion doesn't make that much difference.

Howard Somerset wrote:Family get together. But we have them about four times a year anyway, so the fact that it's Christmas on this occasion doesn't make that much difference.

Agreed, why goodwill to all men (not the women?) on one day a year? Whats the matter with the other 364 days? Bah! humbug.

Christmas shall be different this year with apterous to buffer the boredom.

Have a happy Christmas everyone.

Andy Wilson wrote:Christmas...boredom.

lol wat!?

Emma and I will be celebrating our first Christmas living together by erm... going to our parents' and eating all the food, then when all that food is gone we'll go to the other set of parents and do the same there. Really looking forward to it. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

George Jenkins wrote:why goodwill to all men (not the women?)

There seems to be some debate as to whether this should be "to men of goodwill".

The original Greek, according to this website, is:
Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις θεῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκίας
and the Latin translation:
et in terra pax hominibus, bonae voluntatis

The debate seems to rest on accusitive/dative, though since my basic Latin studies were 33 years ago, I haven't a clue. Mind you, I didn't have much of a clue 33 years ago. Although, to answer George's question, hominibus can be translated (I think) as "a human being, man, person", so the "men" in the English translation should not be taken as being gender-specific.

Dinos Sfyris wrote:

Andy Wilson wrote:Christmas...boredom.

lol wat!?

I assumed it was a common phenomenon. I guess it's just because I live a decent commute to my mother's place (so I'm already here) and will be stuck here til Sunday probably, by which time I'll definitely be ready to get out! Not that I don't enjoy it...

Merry Christmas Everyone!

I love Christmas, all the joy and bonhomie, even though it's quite expensive buying stuff for all my kids, and hard work cooking the dinner.
Being an atheist, I resent Christians insisting on bringing Jesus into it, though.
I love all the tacky, cheery decorations too, and we even have snow this year!

Brian Moore wrote:

George Jenkins wrote:why goodwill to all men (not the women?)

There seems to be some debate as to whether this should be "to men of goodwill".

The original Greek, according to this website, is:
Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις θεῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκίας
and the Latin translation:
et in terra pax hominibus, bonae voluntatis

The debate seems to rest on accusitive/dative, though since my basic Latin studies were 33 years ago, I haven't a clue. Mind you, I didn't have much of a clue 33 years ago. Although, to answer George's question, hominibus can be translated (I think) as "a human being, man, person", so the "men" in the English translation should not be taken as being gender-specific.

I was fascinated by your answer Brian, but my clunky brain can only think of a simpler anwer. We are human animals, different from ovine, bovine animals, etc. A male pig is a boar, and a female is a sow. If we talk about a boar, we don't include a female sow, so goodwill to all boars means exactly that. If we want to include women in our good will wishes, we should say goodwill to all humans. From what I have learnt about attitudes to women in the past, they had no rights at all, right up to the present time, where in most occupations, they are paid less than Human men. Didn't Lott who lived in Soddom, say to the host who ordered him to hand over his male guest, so that they will know him, (I love the polite language), "Nay, Know ye not my guest, Take ye my Wife, and do what ye will with her", or words to that effect, But the Angel, who had been sent down by God to test Lott, smote the host blind, because Lott had passed his test. So considering the status of women, who were owned by their husbands as a commodity I can't imagine Vicars and Priests including women in their good will wishes. I think that the phrase is, goodwill to all MEN. So! all you lads who don't like women and think that they are inferier, as in the bible, send them to me, I love 'em.

Yeah, Merry Christmas lovers and haters

The one thing that annoys me about Christmas is the hype - about 57,000,000 of my Facebook friends have said "omg xmas 2moz!!!!!1".

George Jenkins wrote: Didn't Lott who lived in Soddom,
Say to the host who ordered him to hand over his male guest,
So that they will know him,
"Nay, Know ye not my guest,

Take ye my Wife, and do what ye will with her",
But the Angel, who had been sent down by God to test Lott,
Smote the host blind,
Because Lott had passed his test.

I think these are a couple of verses out of 'Hark the Herald Angels Sing' that have been dropped in recent years, because they didn't fit the tune very well.

George Jenkins wrote:So! all you lads who don't like women and think that they are inferier, as in the bible, send them to me, I love 'em.

But Lot was Jewish, so nothing to do with Christmas. "Goodwill to all men" is from Luke, who was very definitely pro-women. So it's either a mistranslation or it means "men" as in "mankind".

David Roe wrote:But Lot was Jewish, so nothing to do with Christmas.

Jesus was also Jewish.

David Roe wrote:

George Jenkins wrote:So! all you lads who don't like women and think that they are inferier, as in the bible, send them to me, I love 'em.

But Lot was Jewish, so nothing to do with Christmas. "Goodwill to all men" is from Luke, who was very definitely pro-women. So it's either a mistranslation or it means "men" as in "mankind".

That's only another example of pushing the belief in the superiority of men. If the intention was to include women, he would have said humankind, or least "Goodwill to all men and women". Doesn't the fact that Priests are not allowed to marry say something about Religions attitude to women. I have always assumed that women are assumed to be unclean, unworthy, corrupting because of the desires of the flesh or whatever. I'd like to know the real reson. Of course, it's alright to rape little boys, so God must be a tolerant bastard. Also, quoting from the bible is perpetuating fiction.

Happy Christmas all. Hope Santa brings you what you want xx

George Jenkins wrote:That's only another example of pushing the belief in the superiority of men. If the intention was to include women, he would have said humankind, or least "Goodwill to all men and women". Doesn't the fact that Priests are not allowed to marry say something about Religions attitude to women. I have always assumed that women are assumed to be unclean, unworthy, corrupting because of the desires of the flesh or whatever. I'd like to know the real reson. Of course, it's alright to rape little boys, so God must be a tolerant bastard. Also, quoting from the bible is perpetuating fiction.

Amen, George!

Lesley Hines wrote:Happy Christmas all. Hope Santa brings you what you want xx

Thanks, Lesley, you too! x

As George says, pigs are general and boars are male and sows are female. Trouble is that 'man' means 'a human being' or 'mankind' - and that is the first meaning given in the Chambers Dictionary (which many Countdowners do not use because Susie doesn't).
Yes, it also means 'human male' and I prefer not to use in the general sense, but strictly speaking you can.

John Bosley wrote:As George says, pigs are general and boars are male and sows are female. Trouble is that 'man' means 'a human being' or 'mankind' - and that is the first meaning given in the Chambers Dictionary (which many Countdowners do not use because Susie doesn't).
Yes, it also means 'human male' and I prefer not to use in the general sense, but strictly speaking you can.

All this quibbling about the meaning of "man" is irrelevant because the Bible was not written in English.

Charlie Reams wrote:

David Roe wrote:But Lot was Jewish, so nothing to do with Christmas.

Jesus was also Jewish.

But was Jewsus Jeish?

Charlie Reams wrote:

John Bosley wrote:As George says, pigs are general and boars are male and sows are female. Trouble is that 'man' means 'a human being' or 'mankind' - and that is the first meaning given in the Chambers Dictionary (which many Countdowners do not use because Susie doesn't).
Yes, it also means 'human male' and I prefer not to use in the general sense, but strictly speaking you can.

All this quibbling about the meaning of "man" is irrelevant because the Bible was not written in English.

Who is talking about the bible? Certainly not me.