c4countdown

It's on 8th October but I bet it doesn't get a mention (unlike dangerous ironing and wife carrying) - let alone a real poet in DC - say Carol Ann Duffy the Poet Laureate.

How much are you prepared to wager?

Yeah right, I would have said 90% chance of a mention, Damian/the team seem pretty on the ball for dates-of-relevance-what-the-show-is-gonna-air-on.

Time for some Roses are red Countdown poems?

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
We love Countdown,
We go to town.

Matt Morrison wrote:Yeah right, I would have said 90% chance of a mention, Damian/the team seem pretty on the ball for dates-of-relevance-what-the-show-is-gonna-air-on.

That's our Kate. 99% certain we mention National Poetry Day.

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
Sank a LOAD of VINO
Then ate a VINDALOO

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
Jason likes Kate
And Kate thinks that Jason seems like quite a nice guy from his calls, e-mails, e-cards etc. as well

Rose made me red,
but Violette just blew.

D Eadie wrote:How much are you prepared to wager?

Thanks Damian. You've told me the answer, put me in my place and, no, I think I had better not bet on it. Cheers ......


....but what about the Poet Laureate in PC. She's OK you know.

A few years ago, Carol Ann Duffy appeared at an event called 'Poetry Live' in Brighton which I attended along with the rest of the then Year 10. When each of the schools present was given the chance to select one pupil who would get to ask her a question, we sent up a friend of mine called Lee.

He asked, "Why are all of your poems so depressing?"

Not particularly funny, granted, but it sums up how I struggle to find any real joy in her poetry. I think it's supposed to be gritty, but really it's just rather drab.

Chris Philpot wrote:A few years ago, Carol Ann Duffy appeared at an event called 'Poetry Live' in Brighton which I attended along with the rest of the then Year 10. When each of the schools present was given the chance to select one pupil who would get to ask her a question, we sent up a friend of mine called Lee.

He asked, "Why are all of your poems so depressing?"

Not particularly funny, granted, but it sums up how I struggle to find any real joy in her poetry. I think it's supposed to be gritty, but really it's just rather drab.

I went to one of these too! I hated English Lit and the whole AQA anthology for about a year and a half, but when we actually had to do some work for the exam I started to really get in to it and began to really appreciate the poetry and short stories. All her poems are depressing? I haven't found that with the ones I've read. I found it quite funny to discover her Education for Leisure poem has been removed from the anthology for "promoting knife crime" and one complaint for its description of flushing a goldfish down the toilet. http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/200 ... es.english

I also found her poem The captain of the 1964 Top of the Form Team to have some striking similarities with Countdown. Hopefully that won't be me in thirty or so years.

Chris Philpot wrote:Not particularly funny, granted, but it sums up how I struggle to find any real joy in her poetry. I think it's supposed to be gritty, but really it's just rather drab.

I thought she was shit as well, but then again I don't like any poetry that doesn't rhyme. It's not a poem, it's a fucking extended paragraph, it's stating the bloody obvious.

Jeffrey Burgin wrote:

Chris Philpot wrote:Not particularly funny, granted, but it sums up how I struggle to find any real joy in her poetry. I think it's supposed to be gritty, but really it's just rather drab.

I thought she was shit as well, but then again I don't like any poetry that doesn't rhyme. It's not a poem, it's a fucking extended paragraph, it's stating the bloody obvious.

Jeffrey Burgin.
Poems that don't rhyme.
He doesn't like them.
We don't ask why.
These poems, he says, they're extended paragraphs to me.
We say no, but we cannot agree.
Some like poems, some of us don't.
All like Countdown, that is our bent.
Countdown, Countdown, we all watch it, yes.
Twenty-five past the hour of one plus two.
Seeing Jeffrey and Jeff.
And Rachel.
Laughing at bad jokes, and piss-poor puns.
Smiling with Jeffrey as he gets nines not ones.
Why do we spend our time watching this show?
Because it's better than poems
And that we do know.

There you go - a poem that is not only shit and doesn't rhyme, but also partly rhymes too!

Jeffrey Burgin wrote: I thought she was shit as well, but then again I don't like any poetry that doesn't rhyme. It's not a poem, it's a fucking extended paragraph, it's stating the bloody obvious.

Possibly, I hope, that one day you will look back at this and be so embarrassed.

John Bosley wrote:Possibly, I hope, that one day you will look back at this and be so embarrassed.

I doubt it, I just really, really don't like poetry that doesn't rhyme. Sure, it's very emotive language- some of the imagery and what not can be quite beautiful- but that's not what I consider a poem. That's just the way I am. Call it something else if you wish, just not a poem. Coleridge, Wordsworth, Sassoon, Owen- I studied these poets and more in English and both greatly respected and also was quite intrigued and moved by their poems. If they are capable of conjuring such beauty and making it rhyme I don't see why modern poets can't.

Jeffrey Burgin wrote:

John Bosley wrote:Possibly, I hope, that one day you will look back at this and be so embarrassed.

I doubt it, I just really, really don't like poetry that doesn't rhyme. Sure, it's very emotive language- some of the imagery and what not can be quite beautiful- but that's not what I consider a poem. That's just the way I am. Call it something else if you wish, just not a poem. Coleridge, Wordsworth, Sassoon, Owen- I studied these poets and more in English and both greatly respected and also was quite intrigued and moved by their poems. If they are capable of conjuring such beauty and making it rhyme I don't see why modern poets can't.

That's even more retarded than your previous post. So you dislike any poem which doesn't rhyme? What you're saying is similar to somebody going "Any piece of music that doesn't have someone singing is completely shit. OK, it may have beautiful melodies and what not but if it's not got someone singing it's not music". And I'm pretty certain that not every poem by Coleridge, Wordsworth, etc. rhymes, just like not all modern day poems don't rhyme.

Jimmy Gough wrote:That's even more retarded than your previous post. So you dislike any poem which doesn't rhyme? What you're saying is similar to somebody going "Any piece of music that doesn't have someone singing is completely shit. OK, it may have beautiful melodies and what not but if it's not got someone singing it's not music". And I'm pretty certain that not every poem by Coleridge, Wordsworth, etc. rhymes, just like not all modern day poems don't rhyme.

The thing is sometimes you see a poem and it is basically just prose but chopped up into lines separated by commas. I have probably come across barely any poetry since GCSE English (so ignore me if you want) but I seem to remember people reading out some of the poems we were "studying" and the line break meant fuck all as they were designed to be just read through. The commas and line breaks were there purely to make it look like a poem.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

Jimmy Gough wrote:That's even more retarded than your previous post. So you dislike any poem which doesn't rhyme? What you're saying is similar to somebody going "Any piece of music that doesn't have someone singing is completely shit. OK, it may have beautiful melodies and what not but if it's not got someone singing it's not music". And I'm pretty certain that not every poem by Coleridge, Wordsworth, etc. rhymes, just like not all modern day poems don't rhyme.

The thing is sometimes you see a poem and it is basically just prose but chopped up into lines separated by commas. I have probably come across barely any poetry since GCSE English (so ignore me if you want) but I seem to remember people reading out some of the poems we were "studying" and the line break meant fuck all as they were designed to be just read through. The commas and line breaks were there purely to make it look like a poem.

No.

Jimmy Gough wrote: That's even more retarded than your previous post. So you dislike any poem which doesn't rhyme? What you're saying is similar to somebody going "Any piece of music that doesn't have someone singing is completely shit. OK, it may have beautiful melodies and what not but if it's not got someone singing it's not music". And I'm pretty certain that not every poem by Coleridge, Wordsworth, etc. rhymes, just like not all modern day poems don't rhyme.

Yep, pretty much. I fail to see how your point relates to mine though- the whole/music singing thing is not the same principle IMO. If you'd said that what I was saying was similar to someone saying, "I don't like lyrics that don't rhyme" I'd also find that not relevant as, for me, rhyming is not a key part of music. For me, rhyme is the defining characteristic of a poem; singing in music is optional, but for me rhyme in a poem should be mandatory. Yes, not every poem by Coleridge etc. rhymed, but I'd say a great majority did, whereas for many such as Duffy the great majority don't. If you want to get an insight into my mindset regarding poems, read a Wordsworth aloud then read a Duffy aloud. For me, the Wordsworth will always obviously be a poem, whereas Duffy's could easily be a scene lifted from a film or a play or whatever.

Jeffrey Burgin wrote:For me, rhyme is the defining characteristic of a poem

Why? What about the rhythm, the use of sounds to make something flow and sound almost musical? How are you defining 'rhyme', whilst we're at it? Do assonance and consonance count?

Jeffrey Burgin wrote: Yep, pretty much. I fail to see how your point relates to mine though- the whole/music singing thing is not the same principle IMO. If you'd said that what I was saying was similar to someone saying, "I don't like lyrics that don't rhyme" I'd also find that not relevant as, for me, rhyming is not a key part of music. For me, rhyme is the defining characteristic of a poem; singing in music is optional, but for me rhyme in a poem should be mandatory. Yes, not every poem by Coleridge etc. rhymed, but I'd say a great majority did, whereas for many such as Duffy the great majority don't. If you want to get an insight into my mindset regarding poems, read a Wordsworth aloud then read a Duffy aloud. For me, the Wordsworth will always obviously be a poem, whereas Duffy's could easily be a scene lifted from a film or a play or whatever.

I think you need to look beyond a rhyming scheme and understand that poetry means so much more than that. Poetry is about exploring emotions, capturing a moment in time, expression of the human soul and other such bullshit. It sort of transcends all that crap which you're on about. The idea that Coleridge is passable as a poet because the majority of his work follows a rhyming scheme sort of sums up how stupid you're being. What about the stuff he wrote that didn't rhyme? Read Frost at Midnight, that's one of the greatest poems he ever wrote IMO, but because it doesn't follow a traditional rhyming scheme - does that make it shit?

I think you need to reevaluate your 10-year-old concept of what poetry is all about.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The Internet's serious business
And poetry is as well

Michael Wallace wrote:Roses are red
Violets are blue
The Internet's serious business
And poetry is as well

Michael Wallace = Carol Ann Duffy

Jeffrey Burgin wrote:

Jimmy Gough wrote: That's even more retarded than your previous post. So you dislike any poem which doesn't rhyme? What you're saying is similar to somebody going "Any piece of music that doesn't have someone singing is completely shit. OK, it may have beautiful melodies and what not but if it's not got someone singing it's not music". And I'm pretty certain that not every poem by Coleridge, Wordsworth, etc. rhymes, just like not all modern day poems don't rhyme.

Yep, pretty much. I fail to see how your point relates to mine though- the whole/music singing thing is not the same principle IMO. If you'd said that what I was saying was similar to someone saying, "I don't like lyrics that don't rhyme" I'd also find that not relevant as, for me, rhyming is not a key part of music. For me, rhyme is the defining characteristic of a poem; singing in music is optional, but for me rhyme in a poem should be mandatory. Yes, not every poem by Coleridge etc. rhymed, but I'd say a great majority did, whereas for many such as Duffy the great majority don't. If you want to get an insight into my mindset regarding poems, read a Wordsworth aloud then read a Duffy aloud. For me, the Wordsworth will always obviously be a poem, whereas Duffy's could easily be a scene lifted from a film or a play or whatever.

Also, for Wordsworth, see The Prelude.

Are you lot all on your period or summat?

Oops. Didn't mean to be aggressive or anything Jeffrey. I'm not too great at expressing myself.

Jimmy Gough wrote:Oops. Didn't mean to be aggressive or anything Jeffrey. I'm not too great at expressing myself.

Oh, so Jeffrey gets an apology and yet you think you can get away with comparing me to Carol Ann Duffy?!?!

Now where's my handbag...

Michael Wallace wrote:

Jimmy Gough wrote:Oops. Didn't mean to be aggressive or anything Jeffrey. I'm not too great at expressing myself.

Oh, so Jeffrey gets an apology and yet you think you can get away with comparing me to Carol Ann Duffy?!?!

Now where's my handbag...

What have you got against middle-aged Scottish lesbians? Prick.

Most poets including Carol Ann Duffy either rhyme or don't - it depends. Here is her Mrs Darwin from her very entertaining book The World's Wife

Went to the Zoo
I said to Him
Something about that Chimpanzee over there reminds me of you.



It is subtitled '7 April 1852', but I don't know why. Perhaps that's when she went to the zoo!

John Bosley wrote:Most poets including Carol Ann Duffy either rhyme or don't - it depends. Here is her Mrs Darwin from her very entertaining book The World's Wife

Went to the Zoo
I said to Him
Something about that Chimpanzee over there reminds me of you.



It is subtitled '7 April 1852', but I don't know why. Perhaps that's when she went to the zoo!

There's a much better version of that sang to "happy birthday" by 8 year-olds up and down the land.

'Twas in a teashop that they met
Romeo and Juliet
Was then that he ran into debt
For Romeo'd what Juliet.

-The Beano, c1956

Jeffrey Burgin wrote:
I just really, really don't like poetry that doesn't rhyme.

Mine rhymes -

http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic. ... &start=120

Derek Hazell wrote: Jeffrey Burgin.
Poems that don't rhyme.
He doesn't like them.
We don't ask why.
These poems, he says, they're extended paragraphs to me.
We say no, but we cannot agree.
Some like poems, some of us don't.
All like Countdown, that is our bent.
Countdown, Countdown, we all watch it, yes.
Twenty-five past the hour of one plus two.
Seeing Jeffrey and Jeff.
And Rachel.
Laughing at bad jokes, and piss-poor puns.
Smiling with Jeffrey as he gets nines not ones.
Why do we spend our time watching this show?
Because it's better than poems
And that we do know.

There you go - a poem that is not only shit and doesn't rhyme, but also partly rhymes too!

Definitely not shit, Derek! I liked that.

And Jeffrey is entitled to his opinion, of course. However, just to state my limited knowledge on the subject (Eng Lit was my lowest grade (C) at O Level), the punctuation and splitting of lines in 'a poem that doesn't rhyme' is partly to help the reader say it in the (possibly lyrical) way the writer intended, whereas in 'an extended paragraph', the intonation doesn't matter as much.

Then there is Billy Collins who is a most highly regarded poet who writes movingly and funnily and will enrich your life if you read him. This is his Putting Down the Cat

The assistant holds her on the table,
the fur hanging limp from her tiny skeleton,
and the veterinarian raises the needle of fluid
which will put the line through her ninth life.

'Painless,' he reassures me, 'like counting
backwards from a hundred,' but I want to tell him
that our poor cat cannot count at all,
much less to a hundred, much less backwards.

Julie T wrote:Definitely not shit, Derek! I liked that.

There once was a woman called T
Who wound me up with her prudity
Her disagreements with Green
Made me vent my spleen
But her way I strangely now see


*Yes, I know prudity isn't a word, but you are allowed nonsense words in poems too

A fine forum member is Dez;
I value whatever he sez.
His verse is less scruffy
Than that of Ms Duffy.
(But she's just a fat Scottish lez.)

Derek Hazell wrote:

Julie T wrote:Definitely not shit, Derek! I liked that.

There once was a woman called T
Who wound me up with her prudity
Her disagreements with Green
Made me vent my spleen
But her way I strangely now see


*Yes, I know prudity isn't a word, but you are allowed nonsense words in poems too

Oooh, writing me poetry, Derek - does that mean we're engaged?!!

This almost rhymes and almost scans:

c4c is a whole lot of fun,
for those who like words and a sum,
but some members seem wary,
think being pleasant is scary,
and should remember we're all somebody's son ..................................(or daughter!)

Phil Reynolds wrote:A fine forum member is Dez;
I value whatever he sez.
His verse is less scruffy
Than that of Ms Duffy.
(But she's just a fat Scottish lez.)

Great pe-om, great sentiment.

(About Dez I mean, rather than your description of Ms Duffy which appear to be 3 cases of stereotyping for the price of 1)

Sue Sanders wrote:your description of Ms Duffy which appear to be 3 cases of stereotyping for the price of 1

I guess I should say sorry at
Our splendid Poet Laureate

John Bosley wrote:Then there is Billy Collins who is a most highly regarded poet who writes movingly and funnily and will enrich your life if you read him. This is his Putting Down the Cat

The assistant holds her on the table,
the fur hanging limp from her tiny skeleton,
and the veterinarian raises the needle of fluid
which will put the line through her ninth life.

'Painless,' he reassures me, 'like counting
backwards from a hundred,' but I want to tell him
that our poor cat cannot count at all,
much less to a hundred, much less backwards.

I don't "get" this at all.

Gavin Chipper wrote:I don't "get" this at all.

It is the cat for whom it will be "painless", so the owner is thinking that that very human analogy of counting doesn't work at all.

Derek Hazell wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:I don't "get" this at all.

It is the cat for whom it will be "painless", so the owner is thinking that that very human analogy of counting doesn't work at all.

I wasn't really referring to the specific meaning and content, although thanks for clearing that up!

Looking at that poem, it's just how I imagine rubbish poems to be. There are just plain sentences in there but which are chopped up by commas and line breaks just to give it the look of a poem. I just think it's rubbish!

I'm a big fan of John Hegley, who's a singer and poet, and it's all in the way he reads them. I have (no I had - sacrificed in the divorce) many of his books and you need to be able to hear his voice in your head as you read them. Humourous doesn't have to equal rubbish as the beauty of them can be precisely because of the unexpectedness of the non rhyming line dropped in amongst the rhyming ones.

Jeffrey Burgin wrote: I thought she was shit as well, but then again I don't like any poetry that doesn't rhyme. It's not a poem, it's a fucking extended paragraph, it's stating the bloody obvious.

While this may not be the most eloquent presentation of the argument, it should be said that Jeffrey is not alone in this opinion. To further overquote a much quoted quotation from Robert Frost, "Writing free verse is like playing tennis with the net down."

The Billy Collins poem is moving and sad. But there you go. It seems that it is difficult to like poetry and Countdown at the same time.
I seem to manage OK, but maybe most people who are into poetry might sneer at my Countdown habit - as at my Corrie.
I think I shall resist the temptation to put something of my own here for fear of being sliced up into little pieces - like the poem.

John Bosley wrote:The Billy Collins poem is moving and sad. But there you go. It seems that it is difficult to like poetry and Countdown at the same time.
I seem to manage OK, but maybe most people who are into poetry might sneer at my Countdown habit - as at my Corrie.
I think I shall resist the temptation to put something of my own here for fear of being sliced up into little pieces - like the poem.

Go for it John; don't let the bastards grind you down.

No comment. If it needs a comment it's no good.

the quiet one

if you buy the Guardian
you will get pamphlets
about the various war years
or how to study dinosaurs
or how to write a poem

essential first aid for adults
children and infants
but nothing for pets
things we should all know
makes you feel like a dinosaur

keep a first aid kit in your car
in your handbag in your wellie
always carry sterile gauze swabs
face shields for rescue breaths
roller bandages and an ice pack

when managing an incident
if more than one person
seems to be injured
go to the quiet one first
they might just be alive

John Bosley wrote:No comment. If it needs a comment it's no good.

the quiet one

if you buy the Guardian
you will get pamphlets
about the various war years
or how to study dinosaurs
or how to write a poem

essential first aid for adults
children and infants
but nothing for pets
things we should all know
makes you feel like a dinosaur

keep a first aid kit in your car
in your handbag in your wellie
always carry sterile gauze swabs
face shields for rescue breaths
roller bandages and an ice pack

when managing an incident
if more than one person
seems to be injured
go to the quiet one first
they might just be alive

A smilie face isn't a comment
It's just support
With a smile

John Bosley wrote:No comment. If it needs a comment it's no good.

Yeah, and it needs a comment.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

John Bosley wrote:No comment. If it needs a comment it's no good.

Yeah, and it needs a comment.

Brutal

I recently found the Apterous site
Where people play Countdown for pleasure
Some are competitive, playing all night
Others just play at their leisure

The robots are useful if you're a bit shy
Or just want to practise the game
With confidence high, you'll then want to try
Against a real fellow or dame

You might be amazing, you might be alright
And that's what the rating will measure
You might think it's brill, or you might think it's shite
But I'll always think it's a treasure.

With wonderful people to chat to and meet
I've never heard anyone diss it
So if letters and numbers are right up your street
You'd be a right charlie to miss it!

Alec Rivers wrote:I recently found the Apterous site
Where people play Countdown for pleasure
Some are competitive, playing all night
Others just play at their leisure

The robots are useful if you're a bit shy
Or just want to practise the game
With confidence high, you'll then want to try
Against a real fellow or dame

You might be amazing, you might be alright
And that's what the rating will measure
You might think it's brill, or you might think it's shite
But I'll always think it's a treasure.

With wonderful people to chat to and meet
I've never heard anyone diss it
So if letters and numbers are right up your street
You'd be a right charlie to miss it!

Fucking excellent young man, just excellent.

Kirk Bevins wrote:Fucking excellent young man, just excellent.

Thank you, Kirk. Glad you like it.

Love your poem Alec.

Thanks, Ralph.

That made me cringe considerably less than I expected it to. Maybe that was just the rampant flattery though. Cheers Alec.

Cheers. I must confess, I thought of the last line first, and wrote the rest of the poem as a feed-line.

Alec Rivers wrote:Cheers. I must confess, I thought of the last line first, and wrote the rest of the poem as a feed-line.

Ha Ha - I did that with the one I've written on the Spoilers thread!

Alec Rivers wrote:Cheers. I must confess, I thought of the last line first, and wrote the rest of the poem as a feed-line.

Wow, that would be like Hitler writing "and then the jews all died", then building the rest of Mein Kampf around it!

Derek Hazell wrote:

Alec Rivers wrote:Cheers. I must confess, I thought of the last line first, and wrote the rest of the poem as a feed-line.

Wow, that would be like Hitler writing "and then the jews all died", then building the rest of Mein Kampf around it!

Yes, it would, if you considered my celebration of Apterous analogous to genocide.

Sue Sanders wrote:I did that with the one I've written on the Spoilers thread!

I wouldn't mind having a look. Any chance of a link?