The 1982 rail strike. The end of unity?

[George Jenkins]

The 1982 Driver's strike was a disaster for the union which opposed the principal of flexible rostering. Flexible rostering meant some days working less than 8 hours, and other days up to 12 hours. the total hours made up the weeks work at that time, which I believe was up to 40 hours.

Up to that time there existed a powerful union of industries, Steel, Mines and Railways, and I believe that the Thatcher government set out to destroy that union. I myself was not bothered much about flexible rostering, because I was confined to shunting duties in the carriage sheds. (due to heart disease). There were also quite a lot of men who would welcome it, considering that most of us were already working 13 days out of 14, with the odd day being a sunday, which might also be worked. for years we in the south had worked on all rest days and if possible, extra sundays.

So the Union called a strike to oppose the implementation of flexible rostering, and the opposition to the strike was highlighted by the number of men who ignored the strike. For the first time several A.S.L.E.F. union men went in to work, even including a branch Secretary. This split the loyalties of the men even worse than the 1955 strike, and the bad feeling between strikers and workers was worse. I am only talking about my own area and in the south. I've no Idea how things were anywhere else.

Again I was asked to do picket duty, which I performed at Gillingham Depot, and I have a photograph of a group of us outside the gate. I'm the only one sitting on a chair because I was so ill. There was one man who arrived at the gate and complained that there was no pickets on duty at the gate where he would normally go in, so he had to come to our gate so that we could see he was going to work. The attitude was certainly different from 1955.

Well! The inevitable happened as I new it would, we lost the battle and we had to return to work. I can't understand why the union Executive couldn't see the obvious, that Thatcher intended to break the unions, and she succeeded where we were concerned.

Later, I went in the small staff room situated on a Dartford station platform. I found one of my old mates in there eating his lunch. Ken was an A.S.L.E.F. man who worked in the strike. I said "hello Ken, why arn't you over in the Driver's room", and he answered that he couldn't stand the silence that he experienced where ever he went. But he said that he would do the same again. I agreed with him that it was a crazy strike, and wished him luck. He didn't last very long after that. I think that he'd just retired when he died.

Then thatcher went ahead to break up the railway and sell it off in pieces. Harold Macmillan complained in Parliament, that it was like selling the family silver. Instead of the profits going to the Government, it was going to France Etc. He was forced to retract his complaint.

Now, several different Companies own the railways, including France etc. and I understand that there is different rates of pay for the Drivers. Because of the cost of training Drivers, the companies poach Drivers from other companies. The Drivers now have wages up to £35,000 Per Year. One of them said that flexible rostering was the best thing that they had ever had. If they work for 12 hours for 3 days. they have 4 days off.

[Ben Hunter]

blog get a blog it'll be

[Derek Hazell]

I was confined to shunting duties in the carriage sheds. (due to heart disease).

All that smoking you did!

If they work for 12 hours for 3 days. they have 4 days off.

When I was a newsagent I used to have to work 12 hours every day, and 6 on a Sunday! Despite all the childish behaviour and petty squabbling that apparently goes on on the railways, some aspects begin to sound pretty good!

[George Jenkins]

I was confined to shunting duties in the carriage sheds. (due to heart disease).

All that smoking you did!

If they work for 12 hours for 3 days. they have 4 days off.

When I was a newsagent I used to have to work 12 hours every day, and 6 on a Sunday! Despite all the childish behaviour and petty squabbling that apparently goes on on the railways, some aspects begin to sound pretty good!

You are probably right about my smoking Derek, But it was everybody elses smoke. I remember being in a crowded Driver's lobby taking in. I even felt the need to light up a fag. I didn't of course, and ALL of my smoking workmates are long dead. You ought to see me go now though, with my four new arteries in my ticker. I keep thinking that I am only 21 again. (Till I look in the mirror)

[David Roe]

To be fair to Mrs. Thatcher, the unions needed breaking. The shambles of the 1970's wasn't a very successful advert for government by union. I think you can add the public service union (NUPE?) to the list of powerful ones, too.

[George Jenkins]

To be fair to Mrs. Thatcher, the unions needed breaking. The shambles of the 1970's wasn't a very successful advert for government by union. I think you can add the public service union (NUPE?) to the list of powerful ones, too.

David, the Unions job is to obtain FAIR wages for the members. the employers job is to get labour for the cheapest price. Private employers loyalty is to the shareholders and their dividends. The Government's job was to keep down down the wages in the nationalised industries, so that they could claim to control inflation.

When the Railways were nationalised, the Government poached the A.S.L.E.F general secretary, Mr Allen, as an adviser. One of his recommendations was to reduce wage increases because railwaymen are issued with uniforms or overalls. And that was from one of our own men. they ignored the fact that uniforms had to be worn as means of identification.

Our union had to give up claiming wage increases on the grounds of responsibility. Responsibility was never acknowledged by the Government, so we had to apply on the grounds of cost of living. That wasn't acknowledged either. Where our industry was concerned, it was well publicised that the railways were costing the Tax Payer millions every year, and it was our greed that caused it.

Don't you think that it was strange that companies and Countries like France grabbed at the chance to buy this loss making industry up. Recently I read of the profits made by France from their piece of our railways. I forget how many millions it was.

I agree with you about the image that the unions presented to the Country in the 70's. with the first Miner's strike it seemed that the Country was behind them. with the second, I heard Arthur Scargil say "we are going to bring this Government down". I said to myself "Arthur, you've just lost the strike", and I was right.

[John Bosley]

To be fair to Mrs. Thatcher, the unions needed breaking.

Never thought I'd live to see this sort of statement, especially in the climate we now have of banking wankers and thieving 'honorable' members.

[David Roe]

To be fair to Mrs. Thatcher, the unions needed breaking.

Never thought I'd live to see this sort of statement, especially in the climate we now have of banking wankers and thieving 'honorable' members.

Do you remember the 3 day week? The candles kept in every house, always at the ready because, although you were told when the power cuts were due, they still went off at other times as well? The ambulance workers' union leader saying that if it took patients dying to get their pay rise, it was a price worth paying? Just because there's a bunch of crooks in office now (and that's not Mrs. Thatcher's fault, because whatever you think of her, she was honest) doesn't mean that the 1970's version was the way the country should be run.

[George Jenkins]

To be fair to Mrs. Thatcher, the unions needed breaking.

Never thought I'd live to see this sort of statement, especially in the climate we now have of banking wankers and thieving 'honorable' members.

Do you remember the 3 day week? The candles kept in every house, always at the ready because, although you were told when the power cuts were due, they still went off at other times as well? The ambulance workers' union leader saying that if it took patients dying to get their pay rise, it was a price worth paying? Just because there's a bunch of crooks in office now (and that's not Mrs. Thatcher's fault, because whatever you think of her, she was honest) doesn't mean that the 1970's version was the way the country should be run.

When I quoted the image of the Unions in the 70's, I was referring to the anti-Union propaganda spread by the "Establishment" and hysterical headlines in newspapers.

One Tory Bastard complained about Nurses trying to get a pay rise. He said "we only want Nurses dedicated to nursing the sick, and who are not concerned with money".

Another one said of Train Drivers, "why should we employ these trouble makers? We can get enough volunteers to run trains for nothing". I promise you, I heard them say it.

If Thatcher was so popular, why did her own Party stab her in the back and got rid of her. I saw her in tears as she left. Another thing, where did you get your expertise in thatcher's honesty?

[Derek Hazell]

BBC Four are devoting a whole night to striking today. It mainly focuses on the miners, but would still be of interest to people involved in this debate.

7pm Film: The Stars Look Down (1939)
8:35pm All Our Working Lives: Cutting Coal
9:35 The Miners' Strike
11:05-12:05 My Strike

[David Roe]

When I quoted the image of the Unions in the 70's, I was referring to the anti-Union propaganda spread by the "Establishment" and hysterical headlines in newspapers.

One Tory Bastard complained about Nurses trying to get a pay rise. He said "we only want Nurses dedicated to nursing the sick, and who are not concerned with money".

Another one said of Train Drivers, "why should we employ these trouble makers? We can get enough volunteers to run trains for nothing". I promise you, I heard them say it.

If Thatcher was so popular, why did her own Party stab her in the back and got rid of her. I saw her in tears as she left. Another thing, where did you get your expertise in thatcher's honesty?

Thatcher's honesty? General observation, George. As you accurately point out, a lot of people hated her. And yet none of them ever accused her of (a) fiddling her expenses, or (b) not being true to her stated aims. That's not because her opponents were too polite. It's because whatever her weak points were or were perceived to be, dishonesty wasn't it.

As for why she was stabbed in the back by her colleagues, I would say it was essentially because they thought she was going to lose the next election. They wanted change, and (see above) she wasn't for giving it. As well as Geoffrey Howe being a very sore loser about not being able to boss Thatcher like Brown bossed Blair, and Michael Heselswine being just bad news all round. IMO.

[George Jenkins]

When I quoted the image of the Unions in the 70's, I was referring to the anti-Union propaganda spread by the "Establishment" and hysterical headlines in newspapers.

One Tory Bastard complained about Nurses trying to get a pay rise. He said "we only want Nurses dedicated to nursing the sick, and who are not concerned with money".

Another one said of Train Drivers, "why should we employ these trouble makers? We can get enough volunteers to run trains for nothing". I promise you, I heard them say it.

If Thatcher was so popular, why did her own Party stab her in the back and got rid of her. I saw her in tears as she left. Another thing, where did you get your expertise in thatcher's honesty?

Thatcher's honesty? General observation, George. As you accurately point out, a lot of people hated her. And yet none of them ever accused her of (a) fiddling her expenses, or (b) not being true to her stated aims. That's not because her opponents were too polite. It's because whatever her weak points were or were perceived to be, dishonesty wasn't it.

As for why she was stabbed in the back by her colleagues, I would say it was essentially because they thought she was going to lose the next election. They wanted change, and (see above) she wasn't for giving it. As well as Geoffrey Howe being a very sore loser about not being able to boss Thatcher like Brown bossed Blair, and Michael Hensel Swine being just bad news all round. IMO.

I can't argue with your reasoning David. We form opinions according to the news and information we receive, and this Government was unlucky that the fiddling and fraud scandal broke in this present term of Office. I assume that it has always been that way, assuming that there was always expenses and benefits to be claimed by M.P.s but I suppose that the present inquiry is not retrospective to include previous Governments. Of course I suppose Thatcher's main residence would be No. 10, with the 2nd being at Lamberhurst. It is very easy to brand all M.P.s as being crooks, but they can't all be in the trough. The next time I pick up my pen, I will point my airgun away from my foot. (My memory comes back after I start arguing, and you reminded me of some names that I had forgotten).

[David Roe]

It's certainly true that no MPs have offered to pay back any expenses from before 2004. Presumably because the Telegraph doesn't have the files. But I doubt whether the fiddling on this scale could have gone further back than 2000 or so, if only because we didn't have such a grotesquely incompetent and corrupt Speaker then. Martin had his snout in the trough with the worst of them. Betty Boothroyd wouldn't have allowed it to reach those depths.

[Derek Hazell]

George, I hope you have Film 4 - there is a whole series of films about workers' rights by Ken Loach on every day next week!

Also, John Stapleton is on Countdown, the veteran journalist who helped cover Margaret Thatcher's rise to power for the BBC, so he may have some interesting stories to tell you.