TV Licence Funtime

[Michael Wallace]

So, after moving into our current flat 20 months ago, we got a TV licence. After a year I decided that £140 was a bit much just so I could watch Countdown live, rather than on 4oD, so I cancelled it, and even sent them a couple of nice letters saying "we don't need a licence any more, kthxbai". This stopped them sending us horrible letters threatening to eat our toenails, that sort of thing.

OR DID IT??!??!?!!!

A few months ago they started sending us letters again. I am unsure how many of you have experienced this (although probably most of the students), but it's interesting how they get progressively more frightening. Now, being a filthy liberal, I refuse to send them more letters (there is no free way to tell them I don't have a TV), especially if I'm going to have to do it every six months or so (I also find their tactics deplorable - I imagine lots of people more vulnerable than I have ended up buying licences when they don't need one, or simply being genuinely scared). They start off just being fairly uninteresting, but then they start saying things like "you're going be taken to court!" and "you're a big naughty mcnaughtyson" and using fixed-width fonts (which are apparently more intimidating). As many of my friends had experienced similar, I was expecting years of these appearing every so often, with no-one actually ever visiting.

But no! I just found a letter on our doormat, with actual handwriting on it, saying that they'd visited, and they'd call again! That's right! Real, actual people coming to visit! And to think I thought they didn't exist.

So what I'm wondering is whether anyone else has similar experiences of these guys, and whether anyone has ever actually met one (I'm not sure how long it will be until I do - we're in a flat in a shared building, and there's no doorbell, and we spend most of our time asleep). Suffice to say I shall keep you all updated with any fascinating developments to what has been described as "the most exciting story, ever".

[Phil Reynolds]

Would you even be able to see a television set if you owned one? No offence.

[Gavin Chipper]

The best thing to do is totally ignore them, but it seems that's what you're doing anyway. Keep it up!

[Ian Dent]

It needs sorting out.

[Charlie Reams]

I've received these in most of the student houses I've lived in. The amusing thing is that the letters are phrased as if they originate from some arm of law enforcement, rather than (as is actually the case) some minor wing of the BBC. Congratulations on actually getting someone to come out, though. If you get them to visit a few more times then you'll have, to quote your dad, "wasted enough of their money now"; probably rather more than the £140 they were hoping to extort from you, in fact. Also it's pretty much impossible for them to prosecute you successfully; you'd have to let them into your house while the TV was actually on, which would require a level of stupidity which should probably be a criminal offence anyway.

In one of the houses I lived in, they wrote to all 9 of us individually (addressed only by room number.) I enjoyed the attention and ignored the letters so they'd continue to arrive, but some of my housemates got intimidated (which is clearly the intention) and phoned the number and said that we didn't have a telly (which we didn't.) No further questions were asked and no one ever came to check us out, which shows what a pointless farce the whole system is.

Incidentally does one need a license to watch iPlayer? I couldn't find an answer to this on the website, which makes me think they're just keeping quiet about the fact that you don't.

[Michael Wallace]

Would you even be able to see a television set if you owned one? No offence.

Yeah, I don't think I'm even 'severely sight impaired' (being that, or blind, gets you a 50% discount) - I'm 'visually impaired' (so I'm technically a disabled and can rape the taxpayer for free tube travel and stuff), but apparently not bad enough to not fully enjoy the many wonders of TV.

Can I take offence anyway? Does it get me any special privileges?

Incidentally does one need a license to watch iPlayer? I couldn't find an answer to this on the website, which makes me think they're just keeping quiet about the fact that you don't.

As you might expect, I've researched this rather carefully, and no, you don't, and they make it quite hard to find out. This states that "You do not need a TV Licence to view video clips on the internet, as long as what you are viewing is not being shown on TV at the same time as you are viewing it.", which seems to imply that you don't need one for iPlayer (as long as you're not watching it live).

I presume they are going to try and find a way to change this, because it seems a bit ridiculous that I can watch (pretty much) anything I like on iPlayer (and any other channel with a catch-up service), but for the time being it suits me.

[Phil Reynolds]

Also it's pretty much impossible for them to prosecute you successfully; you'd have to let them into your house while the TV was actually on

Are you sure about this? I was under the impression (and indeed, I still am) that you need a licence if you possess equipment which is set up in such a way that it is capable of receiving TV broadcasts. So, if you have a TV connected to an aerial or other source, you need one. If you own a TV and use it only for watching DVDs or whatever, you can only get away with not having a licence if you can prove that there is no way the set can display live TV.

This is the main reason why iPlayer etc. only show programmes once the initial broadcast has finished - to avoid the need for a licence.

[Michael Wallace]

I was under the impression (and indeed, I still am) that you need a licence if you possess equipment which is set up in such a way that it is capable of receiving TV broadcasts. So, if you have a TV connected to an aerial or other source, you need one. If you own a TV and use it only for watching DVDs or whatever, you can only get away with not having a licence if you can prove that there is no way the set can display live TV.

They are (deliberately, I suspect) ambiguous about this. On the one hand (from the link I posted above):

You must be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV.

But then:

If you use a digital box with a hi-fi system, or another device that can only be used to produce sounds and can't display TV programmes, and you don't install or use any other TV receiving equipment, you don't need a TV Licence.

The first paragraph implies that you have to actually watch TV to need a licence, whilst the second says that you don't need a licence if your equipment can't receive TV signals. Notice how the second paragraph strongly implies (but doesn't explicitly say) that you need a licence simply for having a TV that can receive signals, even if you don't watch it.

If you had to have a licence merely for having equipment capable of receiving live TV, then merely having an Internet connection and a PC would be enough (you don't need one of those PC card things these days). If that were the case, then they should be more explicit about it (the way they make it hard to confirm you don't need a licence is another aspect of their tactics that really irritates me).

[Gavin Chipper]

I was under the impression (but it might not be the case) that you used to have to have a licence for simply having a television installed that is capable of getting TV programmes, but more recently they changed it so that you only need a licence if you watch it.

[Ben Hunter]

Incidentally does one need a license to watch iPlayer?

Even if they did demand you have a license...

[Kevin Thurlow]

Where do we start? One of my former colleagues has a black and white TV, and got a visit from the TV Licensing Nazis, who said he only had a B&W licence, so he said, "I have a licence appropriate to the equipment used", then they demanded to see the TV. He slammed the door in the bloke's face, and then unplugged the TV and put it in the hall, opened the door and said "there it is". Then the TVLN said he had to search for colour televisions. He was told "No", so the TVLN then threatened to get a court order and a search warrant. "You just do that!" Slam of door again.

I had fun when I moved from a flat to a house where there was already a TV licence. I helpfully stopped the direct debit and told them I had moved to a property where there was already a TV Licence. Almost immediately I got a demand at the new address that I buy a TV licence (they had clearly received the letter telling them about the licence existing). I ignored it and got another threat. I wrote back and pointed out again that there was already a TV licence there, and that their attempts to get money out of me constituted fraud, extortion, threatening behaviour, and harassment. I demanded a full apology, information on the disciplinary action taken against their staff member and £500 compensation. If they complied with this, I would consider not going to the police or taking out a private prosecution. I did actually get an apology but they refused to pay compensation. (Worthwhile tip - if you write demanding money from TV, or banks etc - the office cat has to pass the letter to someone with more than one brain cell and you have a chance of getting action.)

But a friend of mine has the best experience. She doesn't have a television, because she thinks there is nothing worth watching. She is always getting badgered by TVLN. She has written to them saying she does not have a TV, but to no avail. Some of the visits from TVLN have been wonderful.

(Reconstruction)
Someone arrives on the doorstep and rings the bell, she answers the door.
"You don't have a TV licence"
"I don't want one"
"You must have one!"
"I don't want one - did you interrupt my online poker for this crap?"
"You must have a TV licence - we will take you to court if you don't get one"
"Try it - I don't have a television."
"I'm coming in to look round"
"No you're not - anyway where's your ID?"
"I don't need to show you that- I'm coming in"
At which point she slammed the door in his face.

which gives some idea what they are like.... not even asking if she has a television before they start the tirade.
They have gone a bit quiet lately. On a later occasion she ordered the TVLN from her property - he refused so she shut the door and then opened it again to find him still there. She again told him to go. He refused, so she threw a bucket of water over him. He left the property.

On the plus side, they are nowhere near as obnoxious as the RSPCA.