c4countdown

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:15 pm**

In the words of the BBC, "Have Your Say." Joseph

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:23 pm**

Swearing is, quite literally, fucking great. I can understand some people have led sheltered lives though, and/or don't like to express themselves with any passion, so perhaps a filter should exist, but definitely optional and off as standard.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:32 pm**

Guess what I picked

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:35 pm**

Kai Laddiman wrote:Guess what I picked

Going by the vote counts when I voted, the same as me, option 2.

It's interesting with all this "Sorry Kai" stuff... I don't think I've ever/seen you swear on these boards. Am I right?
What's the deal with swearing or not swearing at home?

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:39 pm**

I see no problem with it. I see no need to shelter the younger members of the forum from swearing. Where I live, most swearing I hear comes from teens or younger. They are all well used to it.

I may, on the other hand, want the meaning of some of the words that are mentioned.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:40 pm**

Matt Morrison wrote:
Kai Laddiman wrote:Guess what I picked
Going by the vote counts when I voted, the same as me, option 2.
It's interesting with all this "Sorry Kai" stuff... I don't think I've ever/seen you swear on these boards. Am I right?
What's the deal with swearing or not swearing at home?

OK, you scored 1 out of 2.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:48 pm**

Matt Morrison wrote: a filter should exist, but definitely optional and off as standard.

It appears that PHPBB won't let you do this, so (unless someone can find a suitable plug-in), it's all-or-nothing.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:50 pm**

Howard Somerset wrote:I see no problem with it. I may, on the other hand, want the meaning of some of the words that are mentioned.

You could do a helluva lot worse than start with Roger's Profanisaurus, the greatest book in the world.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:51 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: a filter should exist, but definitely optional and off as standard.
It appears that PHPBB won't let you do this, so (unless someone can find a suitable plug-in), it's all-or-nothing.

I won't be wasting any time looking for a plug this time, put it that way! I think without a doubt it's the "nothing" route. Thank fuck for that.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:57 pm**

I'll repeat my earlier post, then:

AnnieHall wrote:We should have a poll on here to see how many members like the swearing and how many would rather it wasn't allowed.

For the words f*ck, c*nt and sh*t I always remove the vowels, unless I really want to express myself (see cricket in Pakistan, I'm to lazy to put a link) but otherwise, how do we expect children to learn swear words if they don't get exposed to them? I'm serious though, obviously if/when I have kids I won't want them to swear at adults, but if they swear at each other that's fine by me.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:58 pm**

Although I'll sometimes temper my language to suit the circumstances, I don't think an internet forum is a place that I should feel the need to do so. An expletive is sometimes required in order to adequately express strength of feeling; far from showing a lack of vocabulary (as is the usual accusation), I think appropriately-used swearing can be helpful in getting a point across, particularly in the written word.

Also, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre for a forum devoted at least in part to the wonderful variety of the English language to have restrictions on the words that could be used?

OK, having read that back to myself, I've not really thought it through properly, but you get the gist. And if you don't you can go fun yourselves, melon-farmers. Right in the pimhole.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:01 pm**

JimBentley wrote:Also, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre for a forum devoted at least in part to the wonderful variety of the English language to have restrictions on the words that could be used?

This is pretty much my opinion.

Also, the Internet is not for kids. If you let children use it unsupervised then expect them to encounter much worse than the word "shit."

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:02 pm**

I've mainly going to repeat things I've said in other threads, but here goes anyway.

This is quite a male dominated forum, not surprising given the mathematical nature of Countdown and that males are "generally" more competitive than women. A lot of the seemingly "rude" stuff on here is really in jest, and newbies to the forum might not always get it. But I don't mind swearing as long as it doesn' become personal, and frankly that's for the people involved to sort out, not me! I do think that after Charlie's Octochamp run we got a lot of newbies, a lot of whom "didn't fit in". I'd like to see people being more open-minded to new people joining this forum, because there is a "clique culture" (as there is on any forum, I suppose).

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:05 pm**

Martin Gardner wrote:I do think that after Charlie's Octochamp run we got a lot of newbies, a lot of whom "didn't fit in". I'd like to see people being more open-minded to new people joining this forum, because there is a "clique culture" (as there is on any forum, I suppose).

If you haven't spotted this change happening already Martin... you need to be more observant!
Charlie's own messages in the newbie thread are all the evidence you need.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:06 pm**

JimBentley wrote: An expletive is sometimes required in order to adequately express strength of feeling; far from showing a lack of vocubulary (as is the usual accusation), I think appropriately-used swearing can be helpful in getting a point across, particularly in the written word.

Yeah definitely, I don't see how reducing your own vocabulary by not using words like "shit" is going to help. Swear words carry a lot of power, and you can't replace them with non-swear words, because almost by definition, when you do that you lose the meaning of what you wanted to say.

And yes, I certainly wouldn't let anyone under say, 14 use the Internet with supervision or a shitload of filters. Do you know how easy it is to get free porn/erotica these days? Just type whatever you want into Google and it will find it in less than a second.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:06 pm**

Matt Morrison wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:I do think that after Charlie's Octochamp run we got a lot of newbies, a lot of whom "didn't fit in". I'd like to see people being more open-minded to new people joining this forum, because there is a "clique culture" (as there is on any forum, I suppose).
If you haven't spotted this change happening already Martin... you need to be more observant!
Charlie's own messages in the newbie thread are all the evidence you need.

To be fair, I don't often read that thread, so ok.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:10 pm**

JimBentley wrote:Also, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre for a forum devoted at least in part to the wonderful variety of the English language to have restrictions on the words that could be used?

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:10 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:In the words of the BBC, "Have Your Say." Joseph

Filtering out swear words on this forum would fall right in line with the policies of Gordon's troupe of clowns, and it would make Communist Dictatorship look like a soft touch in comparison, so I for one won't be letting the PC brigade tell me what I can and can't say in my own country.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:48 pm**

Martin Gardner wrote:Do you know how easy it is to get free porn/erotica these days? Just type whatever you want into Google and it will find it in less than a second.

Kai certainly knows now

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:02 pm**

Martin Gardner wrote: And yes, I certainly wouldn't let anyone under say, 14 use the Internet with supervision or a shitload of filters. Do you know how easy it is to get free porn/erotica these days? Just type whatever you want into Google and it will find it in less than a second.

Also, filtering software simply does not work. Even the best software generates an obscene number of false positives (the filter at my school used to ban various Romantic poetry sites, presumably for including disgusting vulgarities such as the word "breast") and false negatives (at school we could access to such delights as mennaked.com and bighugemonstercock.com. Hey they could easily be legit!)

If you want your kids to use the Internet, you have to actually supervise them. Just like you would if you sent them out into the big wide world. And if you don't want to, don't expect other adults to act as your creche.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:18 pm**

JimBentley wrote:showing a lack of vocubulary

Wonderful way to destroy your argument there, Jim.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:31 pm**

I've never really been offended by swear words. To me they're just a collection of letters that have been arbitrarily labelled as bad.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:32 pm**

Ben Hunter wrote: Filtering out swear words on this forum would fall right in line with the policies of Gordon's troupe of clowns, and it would make Communist Dictatorship look like a soft touch in comparison, so I for one won't be letting the PC brigade tell me what I can and can't say in my own country.

Hear Hear!

Well said Ben. I couldn't have put it any better myself mate.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:33 pm**

Kai Laddiman wrote:
JimBentley wrote:showing a lack of vocubulary
Wonderful way to destroy your argument there, Jim.

Not if you read it in context

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:37 pm**

Martin Gardner wrote:For the words f*ck, c*nt and sh*t I always remove the vowels, unless I really want to express myself

I never do that. I either use these words in a post or don't. I don't really seeing the f*cking point.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:51 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:For the words f*ck, c*nt and sh*t I always remove the vowels, unless I really want to express myself
I never do that. I either use these words in a post or don't. I don't really seeing the f*cking point.

It makes me feel a bit better about myself. I suppose. Other than that, it's completely pointless.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:10 pm**

(Kirk Bevin plays Cuntdown.)

I understand you all want free speech on here, but posts like this are totally unneccessary. I really hate the "C" word.

Thanks very much to Charlie for granting my request.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:04 pm**

AnnieHall wrote:(Kirk Bevin plays Cuntdown.)

I understand you all want free speech on here, but posts like this are totally unneccessary. I really hate the "C" word.

Thanks very much to Charlie for granting my request.

I have used the swear words that were actually said in some of my true stories. Mainly because it is part of the history and for the impact it causes.
But I have to say that I am not comfortable with it, and my concience suffers a bit when I think of the Ladies and young children using this Foram. But my concience is eased a bit when I think of filth that is spouted from television cooks into our living rooms, which is considered acceptable.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:21 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: a filter should exist, but definitely optional and off as standard.
It appears that PHPBB won't let you do this, so (unless someone can find a suitable plug-in), it's all-or-nothing.

If you type in Jo-Bo (without the hyphen) it changes to Joseph. I'm not quite sure how this is done, but couldn't this same technique be used on the swear words?

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:22 pm**

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: a filter should exist, but definitely optional and off as standard.
It appears that PHPBB won't let you do this, so (unless someone can find a suitable plug-in), it's all-or-nothing.
If you type in Jo-Bo (without the hyphen) it changes to Joseph. I'm not quite sure how this is done, but couldn't this same technique be used on the swear words?

So, for example, it changes "cunt" to "Joseph"?

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:32 pm**

Jon Corby wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:If you type in Jo-Bo (without the hyphen) it changes to Joseph. I'm not quite sure how this is done, but couldn't this same technique be used on the swear words?
So, for example, it changes "cunt" to "Joseph"?

I should've reworded that.

What I meant was that couldn't the method that was used to change the word, be used on the swear words thus chainging them to something else (not Joseph).

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:40 pm**

Joseph Bolas wrote: I should've reworded that.

What I meant was that couldn't the method that was used to change the word, be used on the swear words thus chainging them to something else (not Joseph).

I see, Joseph.

Hey, has someone already done it?

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:42 pm**

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:If you type in Jo-Bo (without the hyphen) it changes to Joseph. I'm not quite sure how this is done, but couldn't this same technique be used on the swear words?
So, for example, it changes "cunt" to "Joseph"?
I should've reworded that.

What I meant was that couldn't the method that was used to change the word, be used on the swear words thus chainging them to something else (not Joseph).

Yes but it sweeps across the board, effectively censoring everyone who swears and killing freedom of speech.

I suppose it could be used for 'fuck' and 'cunt' but then again, who decides which collection of randomly-assorted vowels and consonants is any more offensive than the next? Certainly not the Austrians, that's for sure...

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:07 pm**

AnnieHall wrote:(Kirk Bevin plays Cuntdown.)

I understand you all want free speech on here, but posts like this are totally unneccessary. I really hate the "C" word.

Thanks very much to Charlie for granting my request.

The joke was about the misspelling of 'Kirk Bevins' in newspaper and radio articles. To me, a spelling error such as that in a professionally written article is as bad as spelling Countdown the way I spelled it there.

As for the word cunt itself, it's power to offend comes from context and how willing you are to let it offend you. My ex-girlfriend thought it was quite a romantic word

.

Allan Harmer wrote:
Ben Hunter wrote: Filtering out swear words on this forum would fall right in line with the policies of Gordon's troupe of clowns, and it would make Communist Dictatorship look like a soft touch in comparison, so I for one won't be letting the PC brigade tell me what I can and can't say in my own country.
Hear Hear!

Well said Ben. I couldn't have put it any better myself mate.

I was doing an impression of the people who post on BBC's "Have Your Say", although to be fair I don't like what Labour have become either, and I'm not a very big fan of people who are offended by slurs in certain contexts, such as Kate Richardson being offended by our ironic and completely above board use of the word 'poofter'.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:16 pm**

Ben Hunter wrote:
Allan Harmer wrote:
Ben Hunter wrote: Filtering out swear words on this forum would fall right in line with the policies of Gordon's troupe of clowns, and it would make Communist Dictatorship look like a soft touch in comparison, so I for one won't be letting the PC brigade tell me what I can and can't say in my own country.
Hear Hear!

Well said Ben. I couldn't have put it any better myself mate.
I was doing an impression of the people who post on BBC's "Have Your Say", although to be fair I don't like what Labour have become either, and I'm not a very big fan of people who are offended by slurs in certain contexts, such as Kate Richardson being offended by our ironic and completely above board use of the word 'poofter'.

Phew, that's a relief. I held in you in such high regard before, that post might've ruined it all!

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:21 pm**

Jimmy Gough wrote:
Ben Hunter wrote:
Allan Harmer wrote:
Hear Hear!

Well said Ben. I couldn't have put it any better myself mate.
I was doing an impression of the people who post on BBC's "Have Your Say", although to be fair I don't like what Labour have become either, and I'm not a very big fan of people who are offended by slurs in certain contexts, such as Kate Richardson being offended by our ironic and completely above board use of the word 'poofter'.
Phew, that's a relief. I held in you in such high regard before, that post might've ruined it all!

Aye, I was thinking that was a bit more Daily Hate than we usually see around here!

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:35 pm**

Ian and Jimmy, you might like this site: http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/ - it's a best-of compilation of comments from BBC's Have Your Say.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:38 pm**

Martin Gardner wrote:a male dominated forum, not surprising given the mathematical nature of Countdown

Come outside and say that!

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:41 pm**

Ben Hunter wrote:Ian and Jimmy, you might like this site: http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/ - it's a best-of compilation of comments from BBC's Have Your Say.

Yes!

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:45 pm**

AnnieHall wrote:(Kirk Bevin plays Cuntdown.)

I understand you all want free speech on here, but posts like this are totally unneccessary. I really hate the "C" word.

Thanks very much to Charlie for granting my request.

I have to say that I find it weird and slightly annoying when people really hate the word "cunt" above all others. I'm sure this is a fairly recent phenomenon - I don't think I was aware of it being this word that was so much ruder than any other before about 7 or 8 or years ago. But anyway, people have arbitrarily decided that it is not only the rudest word but the rudest by some distance, and I think that people that go along with this are just being sheep and letting others do their thinking for them.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:49 pm**

Joseph Bolas wrote:If you type in Jo-Bo (without the hyphen) it changes to Joseph. I'm not quite sure how this is done

And I'm not sure why it is done. Are you a swear word?

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:53 pm**

I can - and do - swear. I have quite a large repertoire of such words.
Some of them are favourites, while others I use only rarely.
I use such words very comfortably with closer friends/acquaintances.
But I would not use them on here, in a busy public place, or on a bus for instance.
There are other areas of my life which I love, but would not wish to impose on others.
I suppose this makes me a "time and place" person.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:56 pm**

Rosemary Roberts wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:a male dominated forum, not surprising given the mathematical nature of Countdown
Come outside and say that!

We're mathematically minded males who like Countdown, we don't go outside.

Posted: **Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:21 pm**

Ben Hunter wrote:
Rosemary Roberts wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:a male dominated forum, not surprising given the mathematical nature of Countdown
Come outside and say that!
We're mathematically minded males who like Countdown, we don't go outside.

Good point - it's raining!

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:11 am**

As I read the options, two permit absolutely anything, two forbid absolutely everything. I'm somewhere in between.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:06 am**

Rosemary Roberts wrote:
Ben Hunter wrote: We're mathematically minded males who like Countdown, we don't go outside.
Good point - it's raining!

Did you have sausage and mash?

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:21 am**

I run a forum where we filter swear words automatically (which seems to be what that community wants) but I find it causes comprehension problems by starring out the whole word and people tend to use f*ck etc in order that we know what they are saying, or use creative alternatives. I find it rather odd personally that people clearly know what word is intended when someone says "sh*t" or calls someone a "barsteward" but it only presses their OMG I'M OFFENDED button when the word is in cleartext.

Most of the swearing on this forum seems to be done in jest, four letter words aren't very interesting from a Countdown point of view anyway and we wouldn't want to end up removing WANKERS by mistake...

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:17 am**

Charlie Reams wrote:Did you have sausage and mash?

Should we have done? The mash would have got awfully soggy.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:41 am**

Using swear words makes me feel like a big man.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:45 am**

Without swears Team America would be cut down to about 20 mins. Take out the puppet sex and racial slurs too and there'd be no film at all!

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:36 am**

Rosemary Roberts wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:If you type in Jo-Bo (without the hyphen) it changes to Joseph. I'm not quite sure how this is done
And I'm not sure why it is done. Are you a swear word?

:lol, I don't think it is.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:51 am**

Ian Volante wrote:
Aye, I was thinking that was a bit more Daily Hate than we usually see around here!

Amusingly, there was a chap on Radio 4 the other day complaining about the misrepresentation of Daily Mail readers on comedy panel shows. He was genuinely upset that panelists seemed to be stereotyping a large group of people into a narrow pigeonhole, and was completely oblivious to the irony of his complaint.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:59 am**

Incidentally, I'd say that racist, homophobic, sexist or ableist slurs are far more offensive than your common or garden swear words. I voted for the removal of old man Fritzl not because I was shocked at his presence in dictionary corner, but because I had to read the word 'cretin' every two minutes.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:10 pm**

Swearwords are fucking brilliant, and just another example of how language is a rich, beautiful and varied tool.

As a subset of vocabulary, they're pretty neutral. It's how they're used that's important. So if they're used as instruments of abuse, with the intent or apparent intent of causing hurt... they're not good. But you can't automate against that, and anyway it's the workman that counts - not the tools.

I don't understand why cunt has the status it has, either. Those who hate it often argue that it's a sign of misogyny, as you're equating a wonderful part of the female anatomy with insult and abuse... but that could apply to tons of swearwords, and anyway dicks are beautiful too. Still I avoid using it as a term of abuse, cos for some it's the ultimate insult, and they would assume I was trying to cause deep offence, when I wasn't.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:22 pm**

As I understand it, swearwords are pretty much essential if you want to demonstrate passion and a wide vocabulary. I'd be fascinated to read a few job applications made by forumites.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:54 pm**

I often use swear words IRL, and so occasionally on forums, as I feel it's similar to chatting rather than letter writing.
Although sometimes I use feck rather than fuck, but not a huge difference anyway.
As long as someone's posts didn't consist mainly of swear words, or contain sexual imagery to a porn level, I think that's OK.

This is a site mainly frequented by adults, so I agree with those who say we shouldn't be worried about what we say because of a handful of pre-teens.
Having said that, I'm glad that my 12YO's computer savviness doesn't extend much beyond a couple of gaming sites.
I think that Naomi Laddiman is sensible in being a member of this forum as well as Kai.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:31 pm**

Clare Sudbery wrote:I don't understand why cunt has the status it has, either. Those who hate it often argue that it's a sign of misogyny, as you're equating a wonderful part of the female anatomy with insult and abuse... but that could apply to tons of swearwords, and anyway dicks are beautiful too. Still I avoid using it as a term of abuse, cos for some it's the ultimate insult, and they would assume I was trying to cause deep offence, when I wasn't.

I think it may have been on QI, but I heard that there used to be a street in London called Gropecunte Lane. You can guess who you'd find down there. Shame it got changed really, but sensibilities do evolve.

Who knows, in fifty years cunt may be close to common parlance, while flange might be totally interdit.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:11 pm**

Clare Sudbery wrote:I don't understand why cunt has the status it has, either. Those who hate it often argue that it's a sign of misogyny, as you're equating a wonderful part of the female anatomy with insult and abuse... but that could apply to tons of swearwords, and anyway dicks are beautiful too. Still I avoid using it as a term of abuse, cos for some it's the ultimate insult, and they would assume I was trying to cause deep offence, when I wasn't.

The legendary Richard Whiteley was proud to be a Dick...

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:53 pm**

Rosemary Roberts wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:a male dominated forum, not surprising given the mathematical nature of Countdown
Come outside and say that!

Why?

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:28 pm**

Wow, 53 votes? Clearly the GOTW vote needs more prominence.

c4countdown

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