Spoilers for Tue 03/03/2009

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:08 pm

Kirk already has an Ann Abel on a stick in his display case, and he's hoping that his pockets will be brimming with baseball caps after today's game (though he'll be at a loss to explain how they got there).

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:27 pm

Phew. Watching the whole show in silence would have been rubbish.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:30 pm

Re : what Jeff just said, that seems to settle the highest ever debut score issue!

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:32 pm

No GLOPPIER?

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:33 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:Re : what Jeff just said, that seems to settle the highest ever debut score issue!

stop trying to rile me up for the sake of it!

Craig Beevers · Post by **Craig Beevers** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:36 pm

MACULA

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:39 pm

I can only get 759 in the time.

Allan Harmer · Post by **Allan Harmer** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:43 pm

760=
9+7=16x5=80-4=76x10.

Got it just after the time - bugger!

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:45 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:No GLOPPIER?

It's OK by Countmax.

Only 1/5 maxes so far, he's bottling it!

Mark Kudlowski · Post by **Mark Kudlowski** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:46 pm

1st numbers:

(25 + 9 + 4) x 10 x (7 - 5) = 380 x 2 = 760

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:46 pm

Paul Howe wrote:
Michael Wallace wrote:No GLOPPIER?
It's OK by Countmax.

Only 1/5 maxes so far, he's bottling it!

I presumed it was out because DC didn't mention it when the contestant had LOPPIER. And yeah, he's rubbish.

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:51 pm

Stop bottling it Kirk...

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:52 pm

EXTANT as well?

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:53 pm

Jeff Stelling is the greatest Countdowner of all time.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:53 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:EXTANT as well?

Yup.

Mark Kudlowski · Post by **Mark Kudlowski** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:54 pm

EXTANT is ok, but how about the dodgy NINJAED for previous round ?

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:56 pm

Mark Kudlowski wrote:EXTANT is ok, but how about the dodgy NINJAED for previous round ?

Nope.

Mark Kudlowski · Post by **Mark Kudlowski** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:56 pm

2nd numbers, far quicker: (50 - 6) x 4

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:02 pm

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:02 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:Wow.

That "declare the least obvious word possible" tactic just went horribly wrong.

EDIT: That "declare the least obvious word possible" tactic just went horribly right.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:03 pm

Re: HEDARIM, that's the problem with showing off, you're bound to get it wrong at some point!

Edit: Oh for fcks sake lol.

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:04 pm

Drama in the Countdown studios there.

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:04 pm

Hahahaha.

Fucking epic.

Ben Wilson · Post by **Ben Wilson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:04 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:Re: HEDARIM, that's the problem with showing off, you're bound to get it wrong at some point!

You don't say!

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:05 pm

Funniest thing ever.

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:07 pm

No century

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:08 pm

Pretty sure that I've seen that conundrum before, a search of the Database might tell me this.

Edit: yup!

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:08 pm

DC will be scared to disallow Kirk's words from now on after that.

I liked the little wink Kirk and Phil shared there when he declared VIBRIO.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:10 pm

When Jeff asked Kirk "have you set yourself targets?" ... "yep"... "like to beat the 127 yesterday?"... "yeah that was, er.... yeah, it's just nice to win".
I wonder if he was going to say "well actually Jeff, it wasn't my debut" and then thought better of it

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:11 pm

I wonder what the max was today? Pretty terrible letters, I hope Charlie took over the shuffling job for the remainder of Kirk's games.

Mark Kudlowski · Post by **Mark Kudlowski** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:15 pm

3rd numbers alt:

(75 x 4) + ((100 + 3 ) x 6)

Junaid Mubeen · Post by **Junaid Mubeen** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:16 pm

I got RELEARNT as a DC beater...obviously not up there with yesterday's performance, but 224 from 2 games isn't too shabby. Glad they spotted the HEDARIM error in time.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:17 pm

After only two games, Kirk's jumped into number 4 spot, having scored more points in his two games than three other players did in three games.

Junaid Mubeen · Post by **Junaid Mubeen** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:18 pm

Mark Kudlowski wrote:3rd numbers alt:

(75 x 4) + ((100 + 3 ) x 6)

3rd numbers alternative:

(4 x 75) + ((100 + 3 ) x 6)

Oh and here's another one:

(75 x 4) + ((3 + 100 ) x 6)

Incredible!

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:20 pm

Junaid Mubeen wrote:
Mark Kudlowski wrote:3rd numbers alt:

(75 x 4) + ((100 + 3 ) x 6)
3rd numbers alternative:

(4 x 75) + ((100 + 3 ) x 6)

Oh and here's another one:

(75 x 4) + ((3 + 100 ) x 6)

Incredible!

You missed (4 x 75) + ((100 + 3) x 6) x 1

Steve Durney · Post by **Steve Durney** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:21 pm

3rd Numbers alt:

4 x 3 = 12
75+1 = 76
12 x 76 = 912
912 + 6 = 918

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:24 pm

I think ORBIT was there in the VIBRIO round.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:25 pm

Junaid Mubeen wrote:
Mark Kudlowski wrote:3rd numbers alt:

(75 x 4) + ((100 + 3 ) x 6)
3rd numbers alternative:

(4 x 75) + ((100 + 3 ) x 6)

Oh and here's another one:

(75 x 4) + ((3 + 100 ) x 6)

Incredible!

lol.

Bit of a wobble from Kirk today for sure, I think he was still on something of an adrenalin come-down from the previous "day". But as I said to him afterwards, he secured the win and, in Game 2, that's all that matters. Kirk is his own worst critic, but there's no point going on about missed maxes and that shit when you've racked up another solid win.

Susie deserves some real credit for the HEDARIM thing, despite her initial mistake. It's not properly cross-referenced in the dictionary and the computer upstairs (which is used to double-check DC's words) said it was bad, yet she still carried on checking even after the round ended. That's the kind of extra lengths that not many of her co-cornerers would go to. Sid and I were both going "Huh?" from the audience, assuming that all three of us must've learnt it from a mistake in Jimdic. I'll leave Kirk to relate his side of the story!

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:27 pm

You could see Kirk trying to restrain himself from charging into the audience and throttling Charlie after HEDARIM was briefly disallowed. Not as stunning as yesterday, but to play below your best and still win by 30 is a pretty promising sign.

And I'm going to refrain from posting how I got on against Kirk today, despite being desperate to do so after his blow by blow account of how he beat me in my CofC quarter final 3 years ago (some of us have long memories

)

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Karen Pearson wrote:I think ORBIT was there in the VIBRIO round.

VIZOR to use the Z. I thought VIZIR^ was alright as well, but it's not.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:31 pm

Paul Howe wrote:And I'm going to refrain from posting how I got on against Kirk today, despite being desperate to do so after his blow by blow account of how he beat me in my CofC quarter final 3 years ago (some of us have long memories )

You may be refraining, Paul, but I certainly can't hold back. I was even at a crucial conundrum with him, and eventually lost by a mere 19 points. Definitely the closest I'm ever likely to get to Kirk.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:39 pm

Howard Somerset wrote:
Paul Howe wrote:And I'm going to refrain from posting how I got on against Kirk today, despite being desperate to do so after his blow by blow account of how he beat me in my CofC quarter final 3 years ago (some of us have long memories )
You may be refraining, Paul, but I certainly can't hold back. I was even at a crucial conundrum with him, and eventually lost by a mere 19 points. Definitely the closest I'm ever likely to get to Kirk.

I blame the HEDARIM mess-up. When that was disallowed I was so excitedly celebrating my 62-55 lead over Kirk that I almost forgot to play the next letters round. When it was reinstated I was put so far off my game that I didn't score again and lost 85-62. Grr.

Richard Priest · Post by **Richard Priest** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:06 pm

I'd never heard of HEDARIM and thought he'd got mixed up with CHEDARIM. Silly me, should have known better.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:20 pm

Best story of the day: Ann Abel's filming guest was this extremely aggravating Jewish woman who repeated, approximately 10 million times and to anyone that would listen, that HEDARIM should never be allowed because CHEDARIM is the correct romanisation of the Hebrew. When I questioned her, she admitted that she didn't actually speak any Hebrew, but was basing this all on the fact that she had a friend whose son once went to a hedar. (FWIW I used to read a bit of Hebrew and HEDARIM is probably closer in standard phonetics than CHEDARIM: the first round is a rough guttural that doesn't exist in English, but it certainly sounds more like "h" than "ch".) She continued to rant even when Sid patiently explained to her that the ODE is based on statistical analysis of a vast corpus and that, even if she hadn't encountered the word, it was probably out there; and moreover, her objection should be with the authors of the dictionary, not its users. Eventually we left to watch the next episode (tomorrow's) in the studio. When we came back nearly an hour later, we found that, much to infuriation of everyone, she was still going. In fact she continued to whine pointlessly until the two of them left the studios some time later in the day.

I wonder if she'll be invited back for another go.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:33 pm

Kirk, I'm curious to know why players of your calibre seem to prefer declaring obscure words even when there are much more obvious words of the same length. It happened in several rounds today, but most glaringly in the HEDARIM round where I'd spotted four easy 7s within the time (HARDIER, HAIRIER, HARRIED and MARRIED) and DC pointed out another one (MARDIER) which wasn't quite so easy but is a well known Countdown word. It seems to me that the benefit of practising hard and learning lots of words that most people haven't heard of is if it allows you to come up with a longer word than your opponent. Using that knowledge when you don't need to puts you in danger of looking like a show-off. Sorry, that sounds harsher than I meant it to, but I'm genuinely curious to know. Is showing that you know words that most of us don't, as opposed to simply getting the highest possible score, part of the appeal of the game for you?

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:45 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:Using that knowledge when you don't need to puts you in danger of looking like a show-off. Sorry, that sounds harsher than I meant it to, but I'm genuinely curious to know. Is showing that you know words that most of us don't, as opposed to simply getting the highest possible score, part of the appeal of the game for you?

I did (and do) this too, although not as well, and you can call it a kind of showing off if you like, but really it's just to make things more entertaining. I mean, lots of people watching at home will have spotted CREMATION and will be sitting there with nothing to do for 30 seconds, so by offering MANTICORE instead you just give them something interesting to chew on. Also for shorter words it's a way of keeping anagrams around in your head, e.g. offering DHURRIE (which takes an S) rather than HURRIED (which doesn't.) And let's be honest, it's just fun to exercise words which don't often get to come out and play.

Nevertheless, I would never do it unless I was 100% certain of the alternative word. Kirk would have been pretty damn certain of something as common as HEDARIM, which explains why it totally rocked him when it wasn't allowed.

kirsty · Post by **kirsty** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:51 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:Best story of the day: Ann Abel's filming guest was this extremely aggravating Jewish woman

Did you mean Ann Abel (who Kirk beat yesterday) or the lady Kirk played today (Fiona?) - I could see Fiona's guest having a reason to complain (sort of anyway) but not Ann's (though that might make the story even funnier).

I thought the disallowing and retraction made great TV! Very good of Susie really to keep on looking.

Today's challenger looked to be a pretty decent player to me; I'm feeling quite sorry for Kirk's opponents whilst still enjoying his performances.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:54 pm

kirsty wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:Best story of the day: Ann Abel's filming guest was this extremely aggravating Jewish woman
Did you mean Ann Abel (who Kirk beat yesterday) or the lady Kirk played today (Fiona?) - I could see Fiona's guest having a reason to complain (sort of anyway) but not Ann's (though that might make the story even funnier).

I thought the disallowing and retraction made great TV! Very good of Susie really to keep on looking.

Today's challenger looked to be a pretty decent player to me; I'm feeling quite sorry for Kirk's opponents whilst still enjoying his performances.

Yep, I really did mean Ann Abel. Fiona came with her husband and the two of them were thoroughly nice.

kirsty · Post by **kirsty** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:55 pm

Charlie Reams wrote: Yep, I really did mean Ann Abel. Fiona came with her husband and the two of them were thoroughly nice.

That does make it quite seriously bizarre then! Thanks for clarifying.

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:13 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:Best story of the day: Ann Abel's filming guest was this extremely aggravating Jewish woman who repeated, approximately 10 million times and to anyone that would listen, that HEDARIM should never be allowed because CHEDARIM is the correct romanisation of the Hebrew. When I questioned her, she admitted that she didn't actually speak any Hebrew, but was basing this all on the fact that she had a friend whose son once went to a hedar. (FWIW I used to read a bit of Hebrew and HEDARIM is probably closer in standard phonetics than CHEDARIM: the first round is a rough guttural that doesn't exist in English, but it certainly sounds more like "h" than "ch".) She continued to rant even when Sid patiently explained to her that the ODE is based on statistical analysis of a vast corpus and that, even if she hadn't encountered the word, it was probably out there; and moreover, her objection should be with the authors of the dictionary, not its users. Eventually we left to watch the next episode (tomorrow's) in the studio. When we came back nearly an hour later, we found that, much to infuriation of everyone, she was still going. In fact she continued to whine pointlessly until the two of them left the studios some time later in the day.

I wonder if she'll be invited back for another go.

Jewish linguistic snobbery makes me lol. I was in Israel a few weeks ago and the guy I went with insisted on speaking to Israelis on the street in a weird, archaic form of Hebrew. They had no idea what he was on about, and he would then bang on for ages afterward that they were speaking bastardised Hebrew.

Kathleen Batlle · Post by **Kathleen Batlle** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:15 pm

Another good game today, Kirk, although not as good as yesterday. Charlie is right, regarding the unusual words, as it does make things more interesting. It has made me realise that I certainly did buy the wrong OED (well, it was from Amazon market place at a considerable discount!) as most of the words from yesterday and today are just not in it. I really thought VIBRIO would be there, but it isn't. It's a smaller one than Susie's, but has the same coloured cover as the one Jeff has ... oh yes, and it's paperback! I was very surprised that I did better than Kirk with the first numbers game and managed 759 in the time. Looking forward to tomorrow now.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:17 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:[snippage] And let's be honest, it's just fun to exercise words which don't often get to come out and play.

All those reasons make sense - thanks Charlie. Luckily Kirk is in no danger of looking at all smug! A less likeable player wouldn't get away with it so easily.

Did any of you see Monty Halls' Great Escape on BBC2 on Sunday night? If you missed it, watch the first five minutes or so on iPlayer. Seeing Reuben, Monty's gorgeously daft dog, playing in the snow on the top of a Highland pass after being cooped up in the back of the car for 15 hours is not dissimilar to the experience of watching Kirk on yesterday's show.

Lesley Jeavons · Post by **Lesley Jeavons** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:17 pm

Kathleen, are you on commission from Amazon? Every time you mention your OED, you mention where you got it from!

Paul Gallen · Post by **Paul Gallen** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:38 pm

I haven't seen the episode today but this an interesting topic that I've thought about before. My view on declaring the 'easy' word vs the 'fancy' or 'obscure' word would be always to pick the easy word.
During day two of my octochamp run, I declared the word COMITAL by accident when I really should have offered TOPICAL or OPTICAL. Why? Because later in the day in my 8th show the word COMITAL came up as the only 7 in one selection. My opponent didn't get it but if they had paid more attention to the earlier game, they would've spotted it easily and another day it could quite easily have contributed to a defeat against another opponent. Games of Countdown can be decided on such small margins. In other words, I would always try to protect the 'fancier' words I know for when it really matters and not give away the high probabilility uncommon words that you have made the effort to learn.

Paul

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:52 pm

Paul Gallen wrote:I haven't seen the episode today but this an interesting topic that I've thought about before. My view on declaring the 'easy' word vs the 'fancy' or 'obscure' word would be always to pick the easy word.
During day two of my octochamp run, I declared the word COMITAL by accident when I really should have offered TOPICAL or OPTICAL. Why? Because later in the day in my 8th show the word COMITAL came up as the only 7 in one selection. My opponent didn't get it but if they had paid more attention to the earlier game, they would've spotted it easily and another day it could quite easily have contributed to a defeat against another opponent. Games of Countdown can be decided on such small margins. In other words, I would always try to protect the 'fancier' words I know for when it really matters and not give away the high probabilility uncommon words that you have made the effort to learn.

Paul

You're right, in a super-competetive sense, but the chance of that happening is incredibly small, whereas declaring esoterica (or indeed ESOTERICA) is always fun. That said, I did have a game at Colin once where I was acting as DC first and spotted ABLEISM but didn't point it out, just in case it came up later. Sure enough it came up in the very next game and was a winner for me. But playing on TV is different, you need a bit of flair.

Jojo Apollo · Post by **Jojo Apollo** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:59 pm

Well done Kirk, bit of a wobble in a couple of numbers rounds ( completely understandable given the epic yesterday and the high standard you set yourself which adds to the already high pressure environment) but no harm done (apart from the teasing from your students

) a win is a win. I expect you to make up for it tomorrow with a MAX game.

Kathleen Batlle · Post by **Kathleen Batlle** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:21 pm

Lesley Jeavons wrote:Kathleen, are you on commission from Amazon? Every time you mention your OED, you mention where you got it from!

Hi Lesley, Yes, I buy just about all my books from Amazon as, living in Spain, it's the best option, good discounts, fast delivery ...... I think they wouldn't go amiss paying me some commission!! The only thing is that I can't 'browse' the books, so don't really know for sure what I'm going to get. I'd much rather go into Waterstones or W.H.Smith but, hey, it's not a huge problem. A big OED like Susie's would be very heavy to bring over from U.K.

Keith Bevins · Post by **Keith Bevins** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:25 pm

I agree with Phil and others about using weird words when simple words of same length are safer. Obviously if the weird word is longer thats a different story.

Don't know if its been done already but for 760 i did:-
(((25-7)*4)+9-5)*10

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:39 pm

Keith Bevins wrote:I agree with Phil and others about using weird words when simple words of same length are safer. Obviously if the weird word is longer thats a different story.

I always (I think) opted for the safer, more common word when faced with a choice. I think it's nicer for people watching if they've heard of the words declared, I reckon it's kinda frustrating for regular Joes playing along to be beaten by bizarre words. I also don't think it's particularly "clever" or "show-off" to declare an unusual word, mispronounce it, and have no idea what it means. Sometimes this would be unavoidable, but if it's not, I'd avoid it. It's how I earned my "people's champion" epithet.

Tracey Lilly · Post by **Tracey Lilly** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:53 pm

Well done Kirk.

There were some stinky letter combinations today.

My only claim to fame is that I spotted NARRATES in round 4 and got 760
25 * (10-4) = 150 + (9-7) = 152 * 5 = 760.

I was matching your letter scores until the last 3 rounds which I completely flunked and also did not get the connundrum.

You nearly got a 100. Looking forward to seeing you in action tomorrow.
Just loved HEDARIM and thought Suzy dealt with the oversight wonderfully.
Good job you weren't neck and neck with your opponent at that point as there may have to have been a stewards enquiry!