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Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:35 pm
by Matt Morrison
Kate Richardson vs Neil Zussman

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:37 pm
by Innis Carson
I think CARMINES was there in Round 3 for a beater.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:59 pm
by Chris Davies
Innis Carson wrote:I think CARMINES was there in Round 3 for a beater.
I had that too. It's fine.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:08 pm
by Mark Kudlowski
Numbers 3:

(8 x 7 x 6) - (3 x (4 + 5))

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:09 pm
by Mike Brailsford
I'm surprised no-one mentioned that certain selection of 4 letters at the beginning of one of the rounds today yet !

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:12 pm
by Ray Folwell
At the risk of staring another mass noun debate, surely you could say "The shop had a wide selection of SATEENS"

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:16 pm
by Dinos Sfyris
Numbers 2 (8x7x6-10/2)x3

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:24 pm
by AnnieHall
Who is the woman on dictionary corner and what is she famous for??

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:31 pm
by Kathleen Batlle
AnnieHall wrote:Who is the woman on dictionary corner and what is she famous for??
Kate Humble is quite a well-known animal show presenter. I enjoy programmes about animals so have seen her quite a lot, latterly with Bill Oddie presenting a programme about UK garden creatures.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:36 pm
by AnnieHall
Thanks.
I found POLENTA in Round one also, and WEIGH in round 2, SCAMPER, FLOODED, 179. In Round 6 I missed DIURNAL and only got miserable fives! In round 6 I also got a measly 5 only (STEAM) and in "The Rude round" (Starting with Piss- yes, very funny! :roll: ) I got GUISES for 6. I got BERATE in round 9, 994, Also Joke for 4 in round 11, I missed round 12 (Spelt my word wrong! :| ) ASTRIDE in round 13, and 308 in the last round.

Well done, Kate, you were a good champion!

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:00 pm
by Dinos Sfyris
10 maxes today. Neil really put me in my place on the last 2 numbers even though I spotted 993 out of time. Also I missed RUTILANT, WEIGH (thought Neil said WHY!) and didn't risk BEFOOLED.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:17 pm
by Phil Reynolds
Round 3 had a wonderful collection of effete 7s. PRANCES, MINCERS, CAMPERS, CAMPIER, SCAMPER...

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:18 pm
by Martin Gardner
Image

Caption competition anyone?

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:22 pm
by Martin Gardner
Ah so that's the same Neil as on the forum! I'm surprised I didn't pick up on it. Really good performance, you look like the series first quarter-finalist, but hey, it's only one game. CARMINES is somewhat debatable - when they brought in the new mass noun rules in Series 49, they allowed CARMINES a lot, but they haven't mentioned it for ages, even when the right letters come up. My own opinion is to allow it. You can have REDS and GREENS, so why not CARMINES? MAUVES has also been allowed in the past, crucially in Series 48 before the new rules came in. Again, I think they should allow SATEENS as well, as they've allowed other words with similar definitions in the plural.

I should say, I also had WHIG in the WEIGH round, and couldn't get better then four in the JOKE/MAKE round either. I did get GRADATES and MEDIANTS though.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:24 pm
by John Brackstone
Is assentee allowed?

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:33 pm
by jeff wharton
Last numbers game.
4x8=32
32x3+7=320
-5+6=309

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:34 pm
by Martin Gardner
John Brackstone wrote:Is assentee allowed?
Countmax doesn't allow ASSENTEE. As for CARMINES, I Googled it on the Countdown Wiki and it comes up three times - once offered by a contestant, and allowed, once offered by Dictionary Corner, and once as a DC-beater. The most recent was in Series 56, which is more recent than I thought, so I'm falling very heavily on the "it's allowed" side of things.

Edit: SATEENS gets zero hits.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:37 pm
by Neil Zussman
Thanks everyone, and yes Martin, it is me :) (It's not like Zussman is that common a name, now, is it? ;) )
There were some words I'm quite pleased with (and some numbers), though my brain does have a tendency to go to sleep occasionally, as you saw.
Commiserations to Kate, she was a good champion, and gracious in defeat. Fortunately no repeat of Theropods! (I didn't get that when watching TV the other day, even though Kate told me about it when we met). I was just lucky to get off to a good start, which helped me settle in (a little- I was still incredibly nervous!)

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:38 pm
by Martin Gardner
Kathleen Batlle wrote:
AnnieHall wrote:Who is the woman on dictionary corner and what is she famous for??
Kate Humble is quite a well-known animal show presenter. I enjoy programmes about animals so have seen her quite a lot, latterly with Bill Oddie presenting a programme about UK garden creatures.
In fairness most Countdown guests are a LOT better known than the Dancing On Ice contestants.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:55 pm
by Kirk Bevins
Neil Zussman wrote: (a little- I was still incredibly nervous!)
I could tell you were nervous but you tried covering it up very well with lots of smiles. Well done.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:37 pm
by Martin Gardner
Quite important this - I just put the JOKE round into Countmax, and it doesn't give anything more than 4! I've seen that on Apterous before, but never on the televised show. Having said that, I can think of at least two other rounds where DC couldn't get better than a 4 either.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:05 pm
by Brian Moore
AnnieHall wrote:Who is the woman on dictionary corner and what is she famous for??
Reading out loud from books, apparently.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:12 pm
by AnnieHall
Please bring Back Richard Digance! :)

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:13 pm
by AnnieHall
Or Richard Stilgoe - OR JUST SOMEONE WE'VE BLOODY HEARD OF!!!!

(Thanks)

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:18 pm
by Steven Tew
Martin Gardner wrote:Image

Caption competition anyone?
I'll have a "P", please, Bob...

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:20 pm
by Steven Tew
Kate Humble was on that BBC 2 programme, Rough Science. I enjoyed that.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:45 pm
by Lesley Jeavons
Martin Gardner wrote:Image
Caption competition anyone?
Rachel discretely tries to hint to the older ladies in the audience what they smell of. :twisted:

(BTW no offence intended - I've had a baby and know it's quite natural to all of us! ;) )

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:51 pm
by Kathleen Batlle
Congratulations Neil, you did very well to end up with 92 points as the selection of letters wasn't too good today. Kate, you also did well to last for 4 shows and I've enjoyed them all. You're obviously quite a character. I would have thought that SATEENS should have been allowed, after all fabric shops often display a range of COTTONS. Oh well, it wasn't to be and you still wouldn't have beaten Neil even if SATEENS had been ok.

I live about 50 miles from Barcelona, so was pleased to know that it is one of Neil's favourite places. It is a beautiful city and there is so much to see, especially the Gaudi buildings and the area of the Olympic installations. You really must come back Neil and spend at least a long weekend there. I never tire of visiting the city and take every opportunity to go there. Try the "4GATS" restaurant when you come, the restored hang-out of Picasso, Antonio Gaudi and lots of other intellectuals of the time.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:12 pm
by Phil Reynolds
Kathleen Batlle wrote:I live about 50 miles from Barcelona, so was pleased to know that it is one of Neil's favourite places. It is a beautiful city and there is so much to see, especially the Gaudi buildings and the area of the Olympic installations. You really must come back Neil and spend at least a long weekend there. I never tire of visiting the city and take every opportunity to go there. Try the "4GATS" restaurant when you come, the restored hang-out of Picasso, Antonio Gaudi and lots of other intellectuals of the time.
Agreed. Gaudi's Parc Guell is a must-visit. I would recommend staying away from the restaurants along Las Ramblas - you'll get much better food (and better value for money) going slightly more off the beaten track. And, if you have more than a couple of days in Barcelona, I can heartily recommend a full day's excursion to the mountain-top monastery at Montserrat, about an hour north of the city by train. You reach the summit via a stunning cable car ride from the station. The basilica and other buildings of the monastery are well worth a visit, but if it's busy you can always escape the crowds and explore the cliff paths and extraordinary rock formations that surround the top of the mountain.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:15 pm
by Kai Laddiman
Martin Gardner wrote:Image

Caption competition anyone?
Rachel was to embarrassed to say what she wanted the most...

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:24 pm
by Junaid Mubeen
Good debut peformance, nice one Neil. I enjoyed the chat at the end about tactics over numbers. However, if I was > 10 ahead going int round 15, I'd go for 1 large. That said, your 6 small choice obviously paid off and I look forward to seeing some more of those in the coming day(s)!

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:25 pm
by Phil Reynolds
Martin Gardner wrote:Image

Caption competition anyone?
Having declined to give Carol Vorderman a golden handshake, Channel 4 opts instead to welcome Rachel Riley with a golden shower.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:57 pm
by Ian Fitzpatrick
Kai Laddiman wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:Image

Caption competition anyone?
Rachel was to embarrassed to say what she wanted the most...
I actually thought Rachel handled it very well, and Jeff's joke was pretty quick too.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:31 am
by david dawson
Steven Tew wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:Image
Anal probes, arsiest and now this. It's getting more like Craggy Island every day.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:29 am
by Michael Wallace
Junaid Mubeen wrote:Good debut peformance, nice one Neil. I enjoyed the chat at the end about tactics over numbers. However, if I was > 10 ahead going int round 15, I'd go for 1 large.
Yeah, I wondered that - was worried that after GRADIATES you were going to lose it at the last.

Also, am I the only person who'd rather a DC guest who was a little less famous and a little more entertaining (or simply less irritating?). That said, it's pretty rare for me to be aware of a DC guest other than through having seen them on the show before, so I'm probably not really the target audience there.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 am
by Vikash Shah
Martin Gardner wrote:Image

Caption competition anyone?
Is it only me who was desperate for the next 5 letters to be F, L, A, P and S?

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:29 pm
by Dinos Sfyris
Phil Reynolds wrote:Having declined to give Carol Vorderman a golden handshake, Channel 4 opts instead to welcome Rachel Riley with a golden shower.
:) :D :D Win!

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:06 pm
by Julie T
Congratulations to Neil, and commiserations to Kate.
You came up against another great player there, Kate, and were unlucky in some rounds.

I was quite pleased to spot DURIAN in round 6 till you both trumped me with DIURNAL.
John Brackstone wrote:Is assentee allowed?
ODE2r has ASSENTER and ASSENTOR, but not ASSENTEE.
Ray Folwell wrote:At the risk of staring another mass noun debate, surely you could say "The shop had a wide selection of SATEENS"
I would have thought so too. ODE2r specifies that it's a mass noun, but Susie sometimes allows mass noun plurals if she deems them countable. I reckon Kate was unlucky to have it disallowed.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:26 pm
by Martin Bishop
The floor manager Jay wasn't present at last the series' quarter finals, because he was working on Autumnwatch. I suspect Kate Humble might have been recruited through that. Just think, we might have got Bill Oddie instead.

Well done Neil, especially on the numbers. Those were excellent.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:22 am
by Kathleen Batlle
Martin Bishop wrote:The floor manager Jay wasn't present at last the series' quarter finals, because he was working on Autumnwatch. I suspect Kate Humble might have been recruited through that. Just think, we might have got Bill Oddie instead.

Well done Neil, especially on the numbers. Those were excellent.
Don't give up hope, Martin, there's still time to get Bill Oddie! He could be next.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:33 am
by Ian Fitzpatrick
Kathleen Batlle wrote:
Martin Bishop wrote:The floor manager Jay wasn't present at last the series' quarter finals, because he was working on Autumnwatch. I suspect Kate Humble might have been recruited through that. Just think, we might have got Bill Oddie instead.

Well done Neil, especially on the numbers. Those were excellent.
Don't give up hope, Martin, there's still time to get Bill Oddie! He could be next.
Oh no, please no, no, no

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:34 am
by Jon Corby
What could you possibly have against Bill Oddie? :|

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:37 am
by Ian Fitzpatrick
I wouldn't have anything against him, I'd keep well away.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:40 pm
by Mike Brown
Martin Gardner wrote:Ah so that's the same Neil as on the forum! I'm surprised I didn't pick up on it. Really good performance, you look like the series first quarter-finalist, but hey, it's only one game. CARMINES is somewhat debatable - when they brought in the new mass noun rules in Series 49, they allowed CARMINES a lot, but they haven't mentioned it for ages, even when the right letters come up. My own opinion is to allow it. You can have REDS and GREENS, so why not CARMINES? MAUVES has also been allowed in the past, crucially in Series 48 before the new rules came in. Again, I think they should allow SATEENS as well, as they've allowed other words with similar definitions in the plural.
I know we've had most of these arguments before, but I'll bite again... personally, I can't really see how you can have two shades of carmine. I seem to recall that Susie may have allowed it in the past because of its secondary definition (a crimson pigment), although if I were in DC (there goes another flying pig!), I think I'd disallow it. I'm sure you can have more than one kind of SATEEN, though: googling it produces quite a few hits that seem to confirm this. MAUVE is listed as a count noun, by the way, so it's still OK.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:08 pm
by Martin Gardner
Mike Brown wrote:
I know we've had most of these arguments before, but I'll bite again... personally, I can't really see how you can have two shades of carmine.
Snip
Mike Brown wrote: MAUVE is listed as a count noun, by the way, so it's still OK.
I can't see how you can have different shades of mauve either, but that's not even listed as a mass noun in the first place! OK, with REDS and GREENS it's more obvious, but CARMINE is already a specific shade of red. So it's a lot more difficult to use it in the plural. But I'd say the exact same thing for MAUVE, it's a specific pink/purple shade, so why pluralise that?

I do find these mass noun rules a bit irritating. As I understood it, they were brought in because the rules meant that DC had to disallow some words that were quite clearly valid, like LAGERS or REMOVALS. But they've extended it beyond that, some particularly strange ones that have been allowed are BUTANES and my all-time favourite TURMOILS.

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:13 pm
by david dawson
Martin Gardner wrote:Image

Caption competition anyone?
Audience participation time

Re: Spoilers & Comments, Monday 16/02/2009

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:39 pm
by Mike Brown
Martin Gardner wrote: I can't see how you can have different shades of mauve either, but that's not even listed as a mass noun in the first place! OK, with REDS and GREENS it's more obvious, but CARMINE is already a specific shade of red. So it's a lot more difficult to use it in the plural. But I'd say the exact same thing for MAUVE, it's a specific pink/purple shade, so why pluralise that?
Actually, MAUVE is listed as both a mass AND a count noun! The example usage given for the count noun is "glowing with soft pastel mauves and pinks". The reason MAUVES seems to be acceptable (and CARMINES not) is that MAUVE is deemed to be a colour (which can have different shades), rather than just a shade of a particular colour. Or something like that. :)
I do find these mass noun rules a bit irritating. As I understood it, they were brought in because the rules meant that DC had to disallow some words that were quite clearly valid, like LAGERS or REMOVALS. But they've extended it beyond that, some particularly strange ones that have been allowed are BUTANES and my all-time favourite TURMOILS.
Likewise; I'd love to see a definitive list (which we could then argue about instead!), but I don't suppose it's going to happen any time soon. I think you're right that the rules were brought in largely for the reason that you state, but they just seem to have muddied the waters in other areas, don't they? For those with long memories - maybe it's time for me to bring back a version of the "Official Countdown Dictionary Errata page"... Finally, as you bring them up, I don't think Susie would allow BUTANES or TURMOILS these days.