Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Discussion and announcements relating to unofficial Countdown competitions, held online or in real life. Observation, discussion, reflection, and other stuff ending in -ion.
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Matt Rutherford
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Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Matt Rutherford »

Sod the South Coast, and there's no need to jet off to the Azores-it's time for FOCAL's summer holiday jaunt to the Midlands. Goat/Co Brum back for a double-header. 'Tis I, MSR (the not-yet-ordained Vicar of Dudley), and others will be bringing the fun for you-this time out in Birmingham's Eastern Fleapit! (It has all your amenities, don't fret)

Format-Lincoln style/at tables for both (further details below)

When-GOAT-Friday 02nd August 2024. CO-Saturday 03rd August 2024

Where-The Paramo Lounge, 40 High Street, Solihull, Birmingham, B91 3TB

Admission-£10 for Co, £5 for Goat, £12 if you are up for both. Paypal link uses real name, but 'tis me!

https://paypal.me/MSRBrum?country.x=GB&locale.x=en_GB NOTE THE NEW LINK-this does use my real name, but is all good!

FRIDAY-Playing six, 9-round games of Goatdown over two round in Lincoln-style,

Essentially, Goatdown is Countdown except the player picking the letters can choose exactly which letter they would like for the 9th letter. So the first eight letters are chosen as normal (vowel or consonant) but for the ninth letter the player picking that round’s letters chooses exactly which letter they would like.

For conundrums, the player is shown only eight letters instead of nine. Their task is to find the NINE letter word that uses those eight letters (there will only be one possible nine-letter word from those eight letters). If nobody does that within the 30 seconds, the ninth letter will be revealed and the players will have a further 15 seconds to solve the now normal conundrum. Doing so will however only grant 7 points rather than the 10 that would be awarded for solving the conundrum from only the first eight letters.

There will be mechanisms to work around all these explained on the night.

SATURDAY-Playing eight, 9-round games of Countdown, in tables of three, ‘'Lincoln' style. After eight games, the top two players will face each other in the grand final, with prizes for the top 8. The first round is drawn randomly-don't panic if you are trounced early on, for the subsequent rounds, you will play opponents that have scored similarly to you, so everyone should get some good, well-matched games. Main aim is a bit of fun.

TIMINGS
Goat:Brum/Friday 02nd August 2024
18:00-Doors open* (Bar is open all day)
18:30-First round draw and things kick-off
19:45-Second round starts
21:00-Third round starts
22:00/ASAP after-Final

Co:Brum/Saturday 03rd August 2024
10:00-Doors open
11:00-First round draw and kick-off
12:15-Second round
13:30-Lunch
14:30-Third round starts
15:45-Fourth round starts
17:00-Grand Final
17:30-Prizegiving
After-Meal at the venue. Details to be sorted soon!

GETTING HERE

CAR-The venue is on a pedestrianized high street. Car parking options are plentiful in the town centre.Variety of options. Touchwood Shopping Centre is open 24hrs-other options are John Lewis and a car park at Church Hill-these are very close on either side. If you put B91 3GJ into sat-nav you'll find these. Other options at the old Marks & Spencers on Poplar Road or the Mell Square Car Park next to the Morrisons. There are plenty to choose from, so you should be fine (copied from later post!)

RAIL-Solihull railway station is about a ten-minute walk away (buses to town centre are also very frequent). Find your way to Moor Street/Snow Hiull station in central Brum, and you'll be grand. Alternatively, Birmingham International has direct connections to Birmingham New Street. From here, board an X12 (around once every half-hour) and you'll be in Solihull in about twenty minutes.

Other Info
Food and Drink-Many options nearby. Paramo Lounge has let me pitch up here for free, so grab food here where you can!. We will also be here for the meal afterwards.

Hotels-Premier Inn and Travelodge are walking distances away.

Parkrun-Located in nearby Brueton Park. You nutcases who enjoy know what to do

Facebook-https://www.facebook.com/events/3614963785488318

Any further questions, shout at me. Hope to see you there!


CONTENDERS (Ready)
Goat (15)
George Armstrong
Steven Grady
Phil Stanton
Adam Dexter
Mike Lee
Adrian Fletcher
Fiona Titcombe
Coral Heath
MSR
Tom Cappleman
Jack Hurst
Eeshan Malhotra
Eddie McCullagh
Jonny De Souza
Eddy Byrne

Co (21)
George Armstrong
Steven Grady
Phil Stanton
Adam Dexter
Mike Lee
Adrian Fletcher
Fiona Titcombe
Coral Heath
Ian Wray
Darren Godfrey
James Robinson
MSR
Tom Cappleman
Ben Wilson
Jack Hurst
Matt O'Connor
Eeshan Malhotra
Dylan Taylor
Eddie McCullagh
Jonny De Souza
Eddy Byrne
Last edited by Matt Rutherford on Sun Jul 14, 2024 2:59 pm, edited 22 times in total.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Matt Rutherford wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 11:30 am FRIDAY-Playing six, 9-round games of Goatdown over two round in Lincoln-style,
Six games = 3 rounds
Matt Rutherford wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 11:30 am Timings
TIMINGS
Goat:Brum/Friday 02nd August 2024
18:30-Doors open
19:00-First round draw is made and things kick-off
20:15-Second round starts
21:30-Grand final
Timings only show 2 rounds
Matt Rutherford
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024

Post by Matt Rutherford »

Yup, what I definitely didn't do here was copy-paste timings from the Rugby page. I didn't do that at all in any way shape or form

(Amendments incoming!)
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Matt Rutherford
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Matt Rutherford »

Time to experiment a bit, after some discussions over the generation of fixtures. Both Brum tournaments are going to test the new methods for drawing matches as put in the Atropine update.

Goat-Will the 'Draw Against Someone On Same Number Of Wins' counting all rounds
Co-Will use the 'Draw Against Someone On Same Number Of Wins counting only the most recent round

If these work, they work. If they don't, they don't. We won't know until we have a shot, and it's worth a go. Feedback welcome, of course!
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by darren godfrey »

Hi hi - for those of us day-tripping, can you recommend parking options close to the venue, please?
Matt Rutherford
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Matt Rutherford »

darren godfrey wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:16 pm Hi hi - for those of us day-tripping, can you recommend parking options close to the venue, please?
Variety of options.
Touchwood* Shopping Centre is open 24hrs-other options are John Lewis and a car park at Church Hill-these are very close on either side. If you put B91 3GJ into sat-nav you'll find it.

Other options at the old Marks & Spencers on Poplar Road or the Mell Square Car Park next to the Morrisons. There are plenty to choose from, so you should be fine.


*Yes this is its actual name. And grow up, because there is nothing funny about in any way shape or form *Ahem*
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Adam Beach
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Adam Beach »

:!: UPDATES REGARDING THE DICTIONARY CHANGE :!:

As a result of the abrupt, drastic entry deletions administered by Oxford University Press on Monday, it has been decided that the next two FOCAL events — Goatdown in Birmingham, and Countdown in Birmingham — will continue to use the dictionary seen on Apterous and Jack's app in its current form. For the time being, MSR — the organiser of these two tournaments — is sticking with that decision. If you don't agree with it, don't come to the events. If you want to push him into changing his mind, don't waste your breath.

So, why am I writing this instead of MSR? What does it have to do with me? What authority do I have for any of this? Well, for a start, I'm carrying out the admin work at the two events in order for MSR to play, and naturally want them to be absent of childish, heated debates over the validity of words that have now been deleted from ODP but remain valid on Apterous. Naturally, this topic is going to be the elephant in the room that weekend, where everyone will be together for the first time since this overhaul occurred. MSR has already been subjected to enough shit from certain people in this community over the last year, and does not deserve to have these two tournaments — which he's put a lot of effort into, as we all do — spoiled by playground squabbles.

The Apterous updates are going to take a lot of time to come into effect. It's been estimated that up to 100,000 words have been wiped. While using the dictionary in its current format could be perceived as playing artifically, it's unrealistic to assume that the updates are going to be placed into effect come these two events. Our hands are tied here; there is no feasible alternative. In the highly unlikely circumstance that these updates do get pushed through before 2nd August (the day of Goat:Brum), MSR and myself will review what's going to happen and will notify those who have signed up.

With regards to the conundrums, these will all be words that will remain valid once the updates have gone into effect, therefore there shouldn't be any disputes with these.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw »

Adam Beach wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:56 pm childish, heated debates
hmm, you seem like a negative-minded kind of a personality.
Maybe take an oul chill pill there. These fears are ridiculous and unfounded. The events will be fine. There won't be arguments. (Who even thinks this way?!)

Adam Beach wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:56 pm MSR has already been subjected to enough shit from certain people in this community over the last year
Ah, shots fired.
I have no problem discussing this openly, if you really wanna go there, but I'd rather not. When we get right down to brass tax, Beachy boy, about whose actions were actually bad, and who should be removed from certain committees, I'm not sure you'll like the reality check you end up getting. So maybe we should try get along, and zip our lips when tempted to take snarky cheap shots?

Good plan?
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Adam Beach »

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:42 amhmm, you seem like a negative-minded kind of a personality.
Maybe take an oul chill pill there. These fears are ridiculous and unfounded. The events will be fine. There won't be arguments. (Who even thinks this way?!)
Nope. Not negative, just realistic. Also, I'm not the one who needs to take an "oul" chill pill here.
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:42 am "The events will be fine".
How would you know? When you're not behind you're keyboard — accusing everybody of being woke — you attend two, maybe three, co-events in a year, none of which are wall-to-wall with highly competitive players. It's rare that anything happens, but it has done in the past. My post was simply a disclaimer in an attempt to alleviate any conflict.
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:42 am Ah, shots fired.
I have no problem discussing this openly, if you really wanna go there, but I'd rather not. When we get right down to brass tax, Beachy boy, about whose actions were actually bad, and who should be removed from certain committees, I'm not sure you'll like the reality check you end up getting.
The implementation of DBS checks was a good thing. For instance: we put an end to the risk of previously convicted child abusers — who have existed in this community — organising a tournament expected to have minors in attendance, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not everybody agreed with it — yourself included — but tough: it's here to stay. There's honestly no reality check to be had. I read the conversations between yourself and MSR, and the way you harassed him — and how that deeply affected him — absolutely disgusted me. I will actually hold my hands up and say I called for you to be axed from any communication with FOCAL following that exchange, but I was overruled — albeit reluctantly — for the sake of the wider community and for you to not provoke any further drama.
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:42 am So maybe we should try get along, and zip our lips when tempted to take snarky cheap shots?
I'll pass. I'd rather not get along with you. I don't like you, I don't care if you don't like me, and I'd say that to your face if we were sitting opposite each other. We don't agree on anything, and that's perfectly fine. We met at Galway in 2022; you seemed nice. Online, however, you're extremely unpleasant. I'm seldom the only person who has this viewpoint, but them pretending to like you to in order to keep the peace is their prerogative. I'm not perfect, by any means, but I'm also not problematic.

Top o' the morning.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw »

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am When you're not behind you're keyboard — accusing everybody of being woke —
*your.
But no, I don't accuse everyone of being woke. I only accuse the woke of being woke, and even then only if they are using their wokeness for evil purposes or to subdue or dominate others (e.g. when Stu was ruining Robbo's "announce entrants via pics of celebs" game by gate crashing in with unsolicited info about which ones should not be used, based on flimsy cancel-culture reasons.)

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am you attend two, maybe three, co-events in a year, none of which are wall-to-wall with highly competitive players.
I would certainly hope you are not throwing shade on the Irish co-event scene with those remarks? You would be hard pressed to find events with friendlier people, or with more actual gameplay packed into the event. As for my lack of attendance at English events, if you (or whoever) has a spare room I can crash in for the duration of my stay, I will consider paying the airfare etc, to make Brum happen... but having to pay for my own accommodation on top of everything else, puts these events out of my reach. If you like to shit on people because they are not wealthy, fine. You do you.

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am My post was simply a disclaimer in an attempt to alleviate any conflict.
But the tone of your post was defensive, aggressive and whiny, as though you were chastising people even before they arrived, assuming the worst. You need to have more faith in people.

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am For instance: we put an end to the risk of previously convicted child abusers — who have existed in this community — organising a tournament expected to have minors in attendance, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Is that what ye did?! lol
I'd love a list of all the co-events that have unsupervised minors in attendance.
And you just gave me the tip... that's a tease! I'd love to hear about the rest of this girthy iceberg that good ship FOCAL thinks they are protecting everyone from. Would love to. How many titanics has your iceberg sunk?

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am Not everybody agreed with it — yourself included — but tough: it's here to stay.
Why of course Adam, pet. That's right. Fully implemented in every co-event of 2024, and here to stay going forward... keep telling yourself that. ;)

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am There's honestly no reality check to be had. I read the conversations between yourself and MSR

ffs. I see you ignored my wish not to get into it... but I cannot ignore your use of strong and dangerous language such as "harassed" "deeply affected" and "absolutely disgusted"... It leaves me little choice but to quickly outline the facts of this case, for anyone who (having read your shrill guff) thinks there was more to it than there was:

“Let's revisit that whole unsavoury affair...
a) "MSR" privately contacted myself and Eddy via a 3-way fb chat. (I did not contact him, and in fact I wasn't massively pleased to have to talk about the issues proposed, but since he was keen to do so, I felt the polite thing to do would be to engage... especially as he was doing it in an official FOCAL capacity.)
b) He asked for feedback.
c) I gave feedback. Very passionate feedback.
d) The feedback involved several direct questions to "MSR", some of which required his personal opinions and values.
e) He consented to answer those questions, but asked for some time to properly formulate his answers.
f) I came back a full week later to see had he his answers ready, then a full 2 months later.
g) As he had spent an unreasonable amount of time formulating answers (That I strongly suspected he did not ever intend to give) I gave him 3 more days to answer before bringing the matter to the public domain.
h) I mentioned that I would do this via Apterous... but had I had to go ahead with it, I'd probably have gone c4c instead, as it seems more relevant, and there are a few FOCAL threads it could've gone into.
i) My intention was to publicly put thosee same questions to "MSR", and also to any interested party who cared to comment.
j) Instead of that, "MSR" proceeded to copy the entire text (wholesale) of the private conversation as a new ticket on Apterous.

My objections are as follows:-
1. If "MSR" did not care for the questions, or if he felt they were in some way inappropriate or whatever... he could have declined to answer them.
2. Once he said he needed time to prepare an answer, I thought that very fair and gave him lots of time. LOTS.
3. It is bang out of order to publish a private conversation, because you are too lily-livered to answer some simple questions, or for any reason actually.
4. If he is not able to handle the difficult aspects of his role at FOCAL, he should reconsider said role.

(I imagine he owes a debt of gratitude for bringing my side of that story to light for the first time ever. Cheers Adam! You're a good mate.)

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:42 am So maybe we should try get along, and zip our lips when tempted to take snarky cheap shots?
I'll pass. I'd rather not get along with you.
Missed the point. The "try get along part" was about FOCAL in general, and about not rocking the boat and making an effort not to shit-stir. It wasn't just about you and I.

Adam Beach wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 3:22 am I'm not perfect, by any means, but I'm also not problematic.
As a teacher of students outside of the mainstream school system, I have had to deal with my fair share of high maintenance, self-absorbed brats. Not fun. Often those types of students do tend to blame everyone else for their failings, and play the victim as a way of getting out of trouble when they deserve a dressing down. It's not that they can't admit when they are problematic, it's that they are actually unaware.

Hopefully your forcing of my hand to publish my side of the MSR story might make you stop and have a little look at yourself.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Adam Beach »

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:57 am *your.
But no, I don't accuse everyone of being woke. I only accuse the woke of being woke, and even then only if they are using their wokeness for evil purposes or to subdue or dominate others (e.g. when Stu was ruining Robbo's "announce entrants via pics of celebs" game by gate crashing in with unsolicited info about which ones should not be used, based on flimsy cancel-culture reasons.)
Aww, calling out a spelling error. That old chestnut.

You do label everybody as woke — well, everybody who doesn't agree with your ideologies, anyway. I've seen it. In January, you branded the owner of the Countdowners Facebook group a "hysterical nazi" — someone I've met in person and who is far from that. That was a public comment posted on FOCAL's Facebook page for attention, and it's because you absolutely thrive off the drama you endeavour to create.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:57 am I would certainly hope you are not throwing shade on the Irish co-event scene with those remarks? You would be hard pressed to find events with friendlier people, or with more actual gameplay packed into the event.
And I wish you'd quit rabbiting on about this nonsense of a "Britain vs Ireland" war we've apparently being going through for the last year. It did make me chuckle when I was informed about that perception. I haven't made any implications that those who attend the events over in the Emerald Isle aren't friendly. Again, we were at Galway 2022 together. It was a fantastic weekend; I wouldn't have bothered going had I hated the country and its people, so don't come at me with that tripe.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:57 am But the tone of your post was defensive, aggressive and whiny, as though you were chastising people even before they arrived, assuming the worst. You need to have more faith in people.
If you've interpreted it that way, so be it. It was my way of trying to suppress the drama that's bound to happen at those tournaments, because — as previously stated — I've seen it happen before, and how uncomfortable it can make others in attendance. To the best of my knowledge, you don't attend "Lincoln"-style events, so wouldn't understand some of the stress that comes with operating the admin side. I still do it, though, because it's fun for the most part.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:57 am Is that what ye did?! lol
I'd love a list of all the co-events that have unsupervised minors in attendance.
And you just gave me the tip... that's a tease! I'd love to hear about the rest of this girthy iceberg that good ship FOCAL thinks they are protecting everyone from. Would love to. How many titanics has your iceberg sunk?
You want a list? That's disconcerting. :? Luckily, there isn't one in existence. Minors in attendance has applied for at least two events this year, but family members were there to supervise them in accordance with our code of conduct.

Christ, give over, son. I'm certainly not teasing you with my tip — or any other part of me for that matter. As far as I'm aware, we haven't had to take any action against anyone this year — apart from yourself. Not a surprise, of course. Also, *Titanics.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:57 am Why of course Adam, pet. That's right. Fully implemented in every co-event of 2024, and here to stay going forward... keep telling yourself that. ;)
Not a problem, but if that's you suggesting your event was exempt from the FOCAL guidelines — after you advertised it as an affiliated tournament — keep on winking, because it was your last in association with us. ;)

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:57 am ffs. I see you ignored my wish not to get into it... but I cannot ignore your use of strong and dangerous language such as "harassed" "deeply affected" and "absolutely disgusted"... It leaves me little choice but to quickly outline the facts of this case, for anyone who (having read your shrill guff) thinks there was more to it than there was:

“Let's revisit that whole unsavoury affair...
a) "MSR" privately contacted myself and Eddy via a 3-way fb chat. (I did not contact him, and in fact I wasn't massively pleased to have to talk about the issues proposed, but since he was keen to do so, I felt the polite thing to do would be to engage... especially as he was doing it in an official FOCAL capacity.)
b) He asked for feedback.
c) I gave feedback. Very passionate feedback.
d) The feedback involved several direct questions to "MSR", some of which required his personal opinions and values.
e) He consented to answer those questions, but asked for some time to properly formulate his answers.
f) I came back a full week later to see had he his answers ready, then a full 2 months later.
g) As he had spent an unreasonable amount of time formulating answers (That I strongly suspected he did not ever intend to give) I gave him 3 more days to answer before bringing the matter to the public domain.
h) I mentioned that I would do this via Apterous... but had I had to go ahead with it, I'd probably have gone c4c instead, as it seems more relevant, and there are a few FOCAL threads it could've gone into.
i) My intention was to publicly put thosee same questions to "MSR", and also to any interested party who cared to comment.
j) Instead of that, "MSR" proceeded to copy the entire text (wholesale) of the private conversation as a new ticket on Apterous.

My objections are as follows:-
1. If "MSR" did not care for the questions, or if he felt they were in some way inappropriate or whatever... he could have declined to answer them.
2. Once he said he needed time to prepare an answer, I thought that very fair and gave him lots of time. LOTS.
3. It is bang out of order to publish a private conversation, because you are too lily-livered to answer some simple questions, or for any reason actually.
4. If he is not able to handle the difficult aspects of his role at FOCAL, he should reconsider said role.

(I imagine he owes a debt of gratitude for bringing my side of that story to light for the first time ever. Cheers Adam! You're a good mate.)
He contacted you because he knew how much of an arse you would be about the whole scenario. Alas, look what transpired. He then didn't answer you because of your conduct and, again, harassment, which continued for weeks. Period. There's nothing else to say on that matter.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:42 am Missed the point. The "try get along part" was about FOCAL in general, and about not rocking the boat and making an effort not to shit-stir. It wasn't just about you and I.
Fair enough. However, you make it very difficult for some of us to get along with you. That ship has long sailed and has been rocked to the point of seasickness — several times, in fact. What's funny is that, nine times out of ten, it's you who's instigated it.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:42 am As a teacher of students outside of the mainstream school system, I have had to deal with my fair share of high maintenance, self-absorbed brats. Not fun. Often those types of students do tend to blame everyone else for their failings, and play the victim as a way of getting out of trouble when they deserve a dressing down. It's not that they can't admit when they are problematic, it's that they are actually unaware.

Hopefully your forcing of my hand to publish my side of the MSR story might make you stop and have a little look at yourself.
It sounds to me as if you're one of them, given you're clearly never aware of any wrongdoing, and constantly point fingers at other individuals — the majority of whom haven't done anything in the first place. Do you give your students that "dressing down" they deserve, or do you casually hurl verbal abuse at them online like you do everyone else? If so, God help them.

Anyway, 'tis half 6 in the morning and I should probably sleep rather than have tittle-tattles with someone who, despite me giving him the time of day, is meant to be insignificant to me. I'm a silly billy. You're right, sometimes.

Until tomorrow morning, my best wishes.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw »

Hi again Adam, and thank you for sending me your best wishes at the end of your last reply. Appreciate that.
I think we are almost done here... but I need to reply to one or two of your latest points.
Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am In January, you branded the owner of the Countdowners Facebook group a "hysterical nazi"
There is a huge history that goes with that, and that person has more than earned the label "hysterical" and the label "nazi"... but there is far too much to unpack. You obviously have a different view of that person, but their dictatorial conduct within that group, particularly their enabling a bullying clique, who ruled the roost for a while, would really leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am quit rabbiting on about this nonsense of a "Britain vs Ireland" war we've apparently being going through
First I've heard of this. "Garda vetting" and "DBS checks" work differently from one another for sure, and that would cause a headache, were an organisation overseeing a hobby, to start insisting these get done. Aside from that... I dunno what you're on about.

Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am you don't attend "Lincoln"-style events, so wouldn't understand some of the stress that comes with operating the admin side.
I've never been, no. All the Irish ones use the other system... and I do feel that the Bristol style is probably a superior model - but I cannot judge properly as I've not been to a Lincoln-style yet. I wonder if someone who has hosted both would have an opinion on which one is harder to run? Certainly RoboRiley made our one this year SO much easier to run.

Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am You want a list? That's disconcerting. :? Luckily, there isn't one in existence.
Of course there isn't. that's because the DBS check thing was brought in, based on groupthink and paranoia, to address a non-problem

Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am if that's you suggesting your event was exempt from the FOCAL guidelines
No. I'm not suggesting that. And if I were the FOCAL top brass, I would be keen to keep my volatile little problem child in the dark. "What he doesn't know can't hurt us."

Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am He then didn't answer you because of your conduct and, again, harassment, which continued for weeks. Period.
Conduct? On this matter, what I did was put across my point of view... it may not be a popular POV, but still, that's what my "conduct" consisted of; defending my personal beliefs. You keep using the word harassment, Is that because you don't know what the word means? It is confusing.

The "harassment" was as follows:
1. Me asking your pseudonymmed friend a few questions, including "Do you personally think DBS checks are appropriate in a context like this?" and "What sort of a person are you?"
2. Your friend then replied by saying "I will reply to these questions, but I need a few days to carefully formulate my answer."
3. Me, respectfully, giving him not just a few days, but a full week before politely asking, "Do you have the answers yet?"
4. Two months later, I saw a hypocritical post on an Apto ticket whereby "MSR" said he is a good communicator, and does not shy away from talking through difficult issues. Spurred on by that, I approached him one last time looking for those answers, giving him 3 days before I would put it into the public domain.

I am very keen to know which of part of that fits your personal definition of "harassment".

Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am God help them.
I know! Imagine having me as your teacher! Poor little mites...

Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am Aww, calling out a spelling error. That old chestnut.
Adam Beach wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:36 am Also, *Titanics.
Double standards? Nice...
I purposely chose to use the small 't' for titanic, and if it were standard to use a capital "I" for iceberg, I'd have lower-cased the shit out of that too. Anything that helps reinforce the fact that - co-events were never broken, and that DBS fixes nothing - is good in my book. It puts me in mind of a toddler crying because they got some red marker on their thumb... and they are demanding a plaster because they "see blood". The call for DBS checks in the live countdown scene, is the equivalent of the indulgent, somewhat gormless parent putting the plaster on that child's finger.


Now. I don't know if you're glad you needled me and got this reaction, but I get the feeling you've been frustrated and have needed to vent for quite some time, so that's done now. I hope it was cathartic. If you feel a need to apologise for anything (unfounded accusations, etc...) I actually love those brilliant CD letters sets and display boards you have made. They are top class. If you comp me one of those, that'd definitely more than compensate for you venting your spleen on me. :mrgreen:

Take care...
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Matt Rutherford »

My thanks to Beachy for helping through a topsy-turvy time of last week. I back and support your statements in full.

I pray for you, Eoin. I really do. Genuinely. You were lovely company in Dublin, and are nice in person.

You know what your actions have been, and reasoning with you is impossible. Hence why (on advice of others as well) I didn't respond to your questions. Given the various things within (agent of evil was particularly fetching) In publishing our correspondence, I did something you threatened to do (efficiency, I call it!)

Your actions are those of bullying, trolling, and harrassment. Not just to me, but to other people who I respect and value. Most of what you say is not worth responding to, other than to call out your actions for what they truly are. Most people who I have spoken to about this (and my thanks for the support from many of you) find your behaviour at best, baffling. Most people find your online actions utterly pathetic-you're not a pathetic person, as said, you have been very pleasant company when in person. It's a shame you can't replicate that online.

So keep on doing whatever it is you're going to do-I can't control what that may be. I'm done arguing, mostly. I will keep on praying, however. I'm nothing if not a persistent Christian weirdo.

Godspeed
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw »

Matt, I have no doubt you will agree, the sooner this thread gets back to discussing the upcoming event in Birmingham, the better. So let's not drag this out too much more. The only thing I am interested in now is -in your opinion- is there anything in the account below that is not the God's honest truth?

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:57 am a) "MSR" privately contacted myself and Eddy via a 3-way fb chat. (I did not contact him, and in fact I wasn't massively pleased to have to talk about the issues proposed, but since he was keen to do so, I felt the polite thing to do would be to engage... especially as he was doing it in an official FOCAL capacity.)
b) He asked for feedback.
c) I gave feedback. Very passionate feedback.
d) The feedback involved several direct questions to "MSR", some of which required his personal opinions and values.
e) He consented to answer those questions, but asked for some time to properly formulate his answers.
f) I came back a full week later to see had he his answers ready, then a full 2 months later.
g) As he had spent an unreasonable amount of time formulating answers (That I strongly suspected he did not ever intend to give) I gave him 3 more days to answer before bringing the matter to the public domain.
h) I mentioned that I would do this via Apterous... but had I had to go ahead with it, I'd probably have gone c4c instead, as it seems more relevant, and there are a few FOCAL threads it could've gone into.
i) My intention was to publicly put thosee same questions to "MSR", and also to any interested party who cared to comment.
j) Instead of that, "MSR" proceeded to copy the entire text (wholesale) of the private conversation as a new ticket on Apterous.

My objections are as follows:-
1. If "MSR" did not care for the questions, or if he felt they were in some way inappropriate or whatever... he could have declined to answer them.
2. Once he said he needed time to prepare an answer, I thought that very fair and gave him lots of time. LOTS.
3. It is bang out of order to publish a private conversation, because you are too lily-livered to answer some simple questions, or for any reason actually.
4. If he is not able to handle the difficult aspects of his role at FOCAL, he should reconsider said role.

And if you do agree that that is an accurate account (and you should because it is), I don't know what else needs be said, tbh.
(A lack of response will be taken as your agreement that the above account is factually irrefutable.)

Best of luck with Brum.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Matt Rutherford »

You know what you're doing. You know I don't want to engage. It's the behaviour I referred to above.

I did something you threatened to do. That account is a misrepresentation at best. The published material speaks for itself. These actions of yours speak for themselves. No further justification needed. Ta-ra, Bab
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Adam Dexter »

Really looking forward to this event :) I presume people are Parkrunning at Brueton Park on the Saturday morning prior to the event?

Just nervous about making the event in time (with time for a shower at the Travelodge in between). Hopefully I can pick the pace up enough to allow a cushion.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw »

Matt Rutherford wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2024 5:37 pm That account is a misrepresentation at best.
Every single word of it is true, as you well know.
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw »

btw, what is the best airport to fly to for this event, and would you recommend flying out of Cork or Dublin?
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Matt Rutherford »

Adam Dexter wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2024 7:39 pm Really looking forward to this event :) I presume people are Parkrunning at Brueton Park on the Saturday morning prior to the event?

Just nervous about making the event in time (with time for a shower at the Travelodge in between). Hopefully I can pick the pace up enough to allow a cushion.
Be grand to see you :) Should be enough time, if you are going to be late then let me know somehow, and we'll make arrangements!
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Adam S Latchford »

I assume on the day signs up are okay?
I have the goliath around that weekend so kind of depends if it's going well or not
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Re: Goat/Co:Brum 2024-Fri 02nd/Sat 03rd Aug

Post by Adam Dexter »

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2024 7:52 pm btw, what is the best airport to fly to for this event, and would you recommend flying out of Cork or Dublin?
Birmingham airport is close.

Seems to be no flights from Cork. Dublin far cheaper than Shannon (those are the two options)
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