It started with a kiss

[Marc Meakin]

Rubiales kiss of the Spanish footballer, is it witch hunt or sexual assault?
His mother has gone on hunger strike.
He may be charged with sexual assault.
Discuss.
In other news, Mistletoe to be banned this Chritmas

[Mark Deeks]

You don't kiss people on the lips unless it's a romance thing, and I guess some people also do it to their kids. He did that, clearly used force to do it, did it on the biggest possible platform as a demonstration of power, it wasn't an isolated incident, and he was unrepentant. This is no witch hunt. Guy's a prick.

[Marc Meakin]

You don't kiss people on the lips unless it's a romance thing, and I guess some people also do it to their kids. He did that, clearly used force to do it, did it on the biggest possible platform as a demonstration of power, it wasn't an isolated incident, and he was unrepentant. This is no witch hunt. Guy's a prick.

When I watched it live I thought he was caught up in the moment and I didn't thing the woman minded.
But obviously from the reactions afterwards I was wrong.
I have spoken to my other half and some female colleagues at work and they didn't think it was sexual assault but the bottom line is if its not consensual then it's wrong

[Jon O'Neill]

Any normal non-rapist would be pretty upset if they did something in the heat of the moment that makes someone feel uncomfortable.

He had a great chance to find out that you can't just go around doing whatever you want to people without thinking about how they might receive it. If he realised this, apologised early and made it the last time he accidentally sexually harassed someone, it would've all been dead and buried by now and his mum wouldn't be hungry. He has done the opposite.

[Marc Meakin]

He definitely handled it wrong, he has put losing face and being perceived as a sexual predator over a simple apology even if he gave a weak apology on the lines of I'm sorry you were offended by my actions, things wouldn't have gone so far
Even allowing his mother to go on hunger strike has a poor reflexion on him.
Maybe there is some previous history with him in a way that say a kiss from Obama would be less offensive than a kiss from Trump.
We are living in a world of #MeToo and as innocent as it was when I grew up, kissing being innocent along with smacking children not being physical assault was the norm times change and we all must change too.
I also wonder if post covid that kissing is not on anymore as much because of that than anything else

[Fiona T]

I know nothing about the guy, and watching the clip it did look as if he got carried away in the excitement of the moment, but that does not make it excusable. You'd expect, on realising the recipient of the kiss was unhappy about it, that he'd apologise genuinely and learn from it. It's not fine to grab someone and kiss them on the lips.

Am reminded of the "soldier kissing nurse" photo - https://nypost.com/2012/06/17/the-true- ... se-smooch/

[JackHurst]

When I watched it live I thought he was caught up in the moment and I didn't thing the woman minded.

Very important to note, just because somebody might not look uncomfortable/wronged/violated/offended/threatened/harassed at the exact moment an incident takes place, it doesn't mean that they aren't. And even if they weren't at that moment in time, they have every right to be afterwards (after any amount of time).

It's a common tactic (mostly used by men) to assume because they looked / behaved fine at the time that it was ok.

[Gavin Chipper]

Watching the video, it's not just the kiss. He's quite aggressively grabbing her towards him before he kisses her on the lips. It's not what I'd call normal behaviour and the backlash is not surprising.

But as Jono said, if he immediately apologised and was actually sorry when it came out she wasn't best pleased instead of doubling down he might have learnt a lesson and not been potentially forced out of his job.

[Elliott Mellor]

He definitely handled it wrong, he has put losing face and being perceived as a sexual predator over a simple apology even if he gave a weak apology on the lines of I'm sorry you were offended by my actions, things wouldn't have gone so far
Even allowing his mother to go on hunger strike has a poor reflexion on him.
Maybe there is some previous history with him in a way that say a kiss from Obama would be less offensive than a kiss from Trump.
We are living in a world of #MeToo and as innocent as it was when I grew up, kissing being innocent along with smacking children not being physical assault was the norm times change and we all must change too.
I also wonder if post covid that kissing is not on anymore as much because of that than anything else

You almost sound disappointed that child abuse is frowned upon nowadays.

Dude, he sexually assaulted a woman and there's no real excuse for it. You don't just grab someone and smack their lips under any circumstances - "I got carried away" is so often just a cover for "I didn't see anything wrong with it but since I've been found out, I'll try and brush it under the carpet".

I know you might have struggled to adjust to the modern world, but come on. Would you be wondering if it was a "witch hunt" if some man had aggressively grabbed and kissed your daughter?

[Marc Meakin]

I never said it was a witch hunt I was merely playing Devils advocate.
Saying its sexual assault however denigrades real sexual assault like rape attempted rate and grabbing genitalia.
Its morally wrong but I doubt a court of law would prosecute but his employer could and should sack him for not apologising to the woman immediately.

Still wearing my Devils advocate hat.
Would the reaction had been the same if he was a woman?

As for my regretting physical punishment of children it was merely to illustrate the changing times.
I was also 'forced to kiss auntties and nans as a child when I didn't want to so I understand what it's like to be kissed when I didn't want to
I was hit as a child by my parents and never thought it was abuse, my brother is a different story.

[Elliott Mellor]

I never said it was a witch hunt I was merely playing Devils advocate.
Saying its sexual assault however denigrades real sexual assault like rape attempted rate and grabbing genitalia.
Its morally wrong but I doubt a court of law would prosecute but his employer could and should sack him for not apologising to the woman immediately.

Still wearing my Devils advocate hat.
Would the reaction had been the same if he was a woman?

As for my regretting physical punishment of children it was merely to illustrate the changing times.
I was also 'forced to kiss auntties and nans as a child when I didn't want to so I understand what it's like to be kissed when I didn't want to
I was hit as a child by my parents and never thought it was abuse, my brother is a different story.

1) Sexual assault isn't a competition. It's a sexual act done without consent (and from the sounds of it, he's got something of a reputation for being a creep). That's like saying calling someone a thief if they steal some groceries from Tesco is wrong because it distracts from the people who violently rob the purses of old widows.

2) That's just whataboutery, but yes it would (or should) also be condemned.

3) I'm with you on the idea that you shouldn't be forced to kiss relatives if you don't want to. I'm not sure it has quite the same sexual undertone as this, but yeah kissing relatives is a bit weird.

[Adam S Latchford]

It's good to see how much uproar there has been about this. Genuinely these issues are normally swept under the rug. Getting carried away was barely an excuse 30 years ago let alone now - it's all boomers who are seeing this in a light hearted way.

[Gavin Chipper]

it's all boomers who are seeing this in a light hearted way.

You have to remember that ageism is just as bad as any other prejudice of course...

[Fiona T]

3) I'm with you on the idea that you shouldn't be forced to kiss relatives if you don't want to. I'm not sure it has quite the same sexual undertone as this, but yeah kissing relatives is a bit weird.

While we're at it, can we also get rid of polite kisses on the cheek when greeting people you barely know - hate that stuff! (Happy to have a peck from friends!)

[Gavin Chipper]

(Happy to have a peck from friends!)

I'm not. I have these cousins who live in Italy who have this thing of kissing each cheek. I try and avoid them. Hopefully they don't read this forum.

[Marc Meakin]

(Happy to have a peck from friends!)

I'm not. I have these cousins who live in Italy who have this thing of kissing each cheek. I try and avoid them. Hopefully they don't read this forum.

Each cheek!!!?

[Matt Morrison]

Definitely going to try and kiss you next time Gevin.

[Gavin Chipper]

Definitely going to try and kiss you next time Gevin.

Rapist.

[Marc Meakin]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/ ... y-groping/

This makes sense though not if you can't bypass the pay wall

[Marc Meakin]

I see the Spanish manager has been sacked, I presume for being Rubiales mate