c4countdown

Do think this should be the way forward for art awards like Grammy Oscars etc.
I mean authors compete on a level playing field so why not.
I think the Brits did it because there are a lot of Trans acts and artists that identify as non binary like Sam Smith.
I am torn as I like awards to be spread across the genders
I even advocate that non binary artistes should have there own category.
You can't do it in physical based sport for obvious reasons although I'm all for the current trend of mixed events

As far as I can tell it's a good thing for things like music, writing, and film where there's no real meaningful distinction (that I know of; I'm no expert on musicianship, literature, or dramatics) between a male artist, a female artist, or a non-binary artist. As you say, for sports (most sports anyway) it's different and makes sense to have gendered categories.

I'd just get rid of all awards. I didn't even know the Brits were still a thing.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:11 am Do think this should be the way forward for art awards like Grammy Oscars etc.
I mean authors compete on a level playing field so why not.
I think the Brits did it because there are a lot of Trans acts and artists that identify as non binary like Sam Smith.
I am torn as I like awards to be spread across the genders
I even advocate that non binary artistes should have there own category.
You can't do it in physical based sport for obvious reasons although I'm all for the current trend of mixed events

Sam Smith being the ONLY non-binary artist I ever see mentioned!

Can somebody explain non-binary to me? I don't understand it- it's that they don't feel male or female? Because that just confuses me because gender isn't really a feeling. I'm trying to be more understanding about these people (after all, they're just people, no different to you and me) but it's the concept that I find a bit hard to get my head round.

Here you go Christy

https://transequality.org/issues/resour ... supportive

Key is

You don’t have to understand what it means for someone to be non-binary to respect them. Some people haven’t heard a lot about non-binary genders or have trouble understanding them, and that’s okay. But identities that some people don’t understand still deserve respect.

I don't believe the Brits change was ever about non-binary people - more a recognition that there seems to be no reason to separate the awards by gender.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ente ... 09224.html


This is more like the reason.
I vaguely remember Will Young saying about removing gender awards

Christy Cooper wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:07 pm Can somebody explain non-binary to me? I don't understand it- it's that they don't feel male or female? Because that just confuses me because gender isn't really a feeling. I'm trying to be more understanding about these people (after all, they're just people, no different to you and me) but it's the concept that I find a bit hard to get my head round.

Isn't it just that? Being male or female is a physical thing that can be measured. Being anything else is all in the mind.

Thought I would bump this.
Harry Styles, one of the few winners I've heard of pointed out that there were no women nominated in the best solo artist category.
I think having non gender specific categories may be good on paper but it really isn't required.
Having a non binary category makes much more sense

While they should be careful to make sure any biases don't creep in, it is inevitable that you're not always going to have exactly the same number of male and female acts producing good* music.

*For some definition of good

Ian Fitzpatrick wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:05 am

Christy Cooper wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:07 pm Can somebody explain non-binary to me? I don't understand it- it's that they don't feel male or female? Because that just confuses me because gender isn't really a feeling. I'm trying to be more understanding about these people (after all, they're just people, no different to you and me) but it's the concept that I find a bit hard to get my head round.

Isn't it just that? Being male or female is a physical thing that can be measured. Being anything else is all in the mind.

Not always particularly easily. You can measure someone's chromosomes, hormone levels and look at what bits they have, but that somewhat overlooks that gender is a combination of the physical and mental, and certainly isn't binary, except in the eyes of some prevailing social constructs.

I don't mind having one award, but Harry Styles was quite right to highlight that no one nominated in "British Artist of the Year" (which he won) were women. Obviously Becky Hill and Dua Lipa deserved nominations more than Fred Again or Central Cee.

Ian Volante wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:15 pm

Ian Fitzpatrick wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:05 am

Christy Cooper wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:07 pm Can somebody explain non-binary to me? I don't understand it- it's that they don't feel male or female? Because that just confuses me because gender isn't really a feeling. I'm trying to be more understanding about these people (after all, they're just people, no different to you and me) but it's the concept that I find a bit hard to get my head round.

Isn't it just that? Being male or female is a physical thing that can be measured. Being anything else is all in the mind.

Not always particularly easily. You can measure someone's chromosomes, hormone levels and look at what bits they have, but that somewhat overlooks that gender is a combination of the physical and mental, and certainly isn't binary, except in the eyes of some prevailing social constructs.

But sex is a thing. Maybe if we didn't have such preconceived ideas of what it meant to be male or female sex, we wouldn't need to invent male and female gender as well. I mean, why have these two closely related things that aren't the same? We don't for anything else - except maybe pro ranks and rolling ratings on Apterous.

I think most modern forms and questionnaires use the term gender rather than sex nowadays.
Which for me is a shame as I remember filling in a form when I was in the 5th year at school (or whatever the modern equivalent is) for a trip to Belgium and when the questionnaire asked sex, I got in trouble for answering yes please

Year 11.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:05 am Year 11.

Thanks, when did it all change from the simpler times?
I'm guessing around the same time as O' levels became GCEs

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:29 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:05 am Year 11.

Thanks, when did it all change from the simpler times?
I'm guessing around the same time as O' levels became GCEs

Do you mean GCSEs? Dunno, but they both kind of existed together in the 90s I think.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:38 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:29 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:05 am Year 11.

Thanks, when did it all change from the simpler times?
I'm guessing around the same time as O' levels became GCEs

Do you mean GCSEs? Dunno, but they both kind of existed together in the 90s I think.

GCSEs replaced O-levels in about 1987.

Yeah, I meant GCSEs, I had a Delboy moment there.
I knew it was before 1990

I meant the two naming systems for year groups co-existing in the 90s btw.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:42 pm I meant the two naming systems for year groups co-existing in the 90s btw.

It rings a vague bell that I might have heard the term mentioned from other schools when I was still there myself, but we never used it. I'm guessing it was pushed by governments at some point to imply a coherent system all the way from infants to leaving, but I imagine that in practice, bugger all changed, and people will still jump between years or miss some as required.

For example, at our primary school, there were only six classes, but we spent seven years there, so everyone had to stay in a class for two years at some point. I do remember one person spent two years in one class, skipped the next one and spent two years in the following class. I'm sure it made sense to someone. And there were certainly some of my mates at secondary who skipped the final year of primary entirely.