c4countdown

Not having a permanent home here yet, I suggest in here?

Let this be for all ZD ramblings and offerings from this day forth

In the light of recent controversies,
one of the main questions I'm pondering is that of transparency.

To what extent is transparency a priority to the ZD team?
Given a choice between being truthful with the viewers, or protecting the reputation of the show, what wins out?

My close relative Brandon Hawkins is on standby in case this impressive talent pool runs dry!

Love the show. Congratulations to all those who have made it what it is.

Aye, kudos for getting this going, and long may it continue!

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:44 am In the light of recent controversies,
one of the main questions I'm pondering is that of transparency.

To what extent is transparency a priority to the ZD team?
Given a choice between being truthful with the viewers, or protecting the reputation of the show, what wins out?

Well my personal view is that the reputation of the show is dependent on its integrity and the trust of the viewers. It's not an either/or situation - the two are intrinsically linked. But let's not derail this thread please.

Fiona T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:40 pm But let's not derail this thread please.

Well it's not 'derailing' so much as 'contributing'. The timing of the publication of this thread, coincides with a time when people are scrutinising and questioning Zoomdown and how it runs, so it makes sense that not *every* post here is gonna be an "everything is awesome" post.

Though, to be fair, most things actually ARE awesome.
Keep up the sterling work.

Quickdraw McGraw straight in no kissing!

Bradley Horrocks wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:29 pm My close relative Brandon Hawkins is on standby in case this impressive talent pool runs dry!

Mandatory DNA testing now I'm afraid...how close a relative?

And thanks guys re: getting it going...very much a team affair and the right folk for the jobs just happened to be in our group chat. Was meant to be a one-off but sure...honestly feels like 3 years condensed into 6 months.
If last series was a decent debut album, this is probably the difficult second

Great show and it works really well. I really enjoyed playing in it.

Jon O'Neill wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:35 pm Love the show. Congratulations to all those who have made it what it is.

Does that include you?

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:55 pm Great show and it works really well. I really enjoyed playing in it.

Jon O'Neill wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:35 pm Love the show. Congratulations to all those who have made it what it is.

Does that include you?

No, and especially not you.

Haha, that was funny tho, ya gotta admit

If I come back on can I have a harder draw please? I don't think Conor then Luke then Rex is difficult enough to give me a real challenge.

JackHurst wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:12 pm If I come back on can I have a harder draw please? I don't think Conor then Luke then Rex is difficult enough to give me a real challenge.

PMSL

JackHurst wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:12 pm If I come back on can I have a harder draw please? I don't think Conor then Luke then Rex is difficult enough to give me a real challenge.

Is Rob good enough for you?

We aim to be equally cruel to all. Jack, you are due a decent draw yes

ZD Halloween Special this Thursday

If the overlay isn't pumpkin orange I will be disappointed.

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:38 pm If the overlay isn't pumpkin orange I will be disappointed.

It should be like Apterous and the entire stream should be unviewable for the day.

Paul Anderson wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:24 pm ZD Halloween Special this Thursday

To be clear, it's part of the regular series, but Halloween themed (Paul likes dressing up )

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:38 pm If the overlay isn't pumpkin orange I will be disappointed.

Yes! Please do this. Orange background, black text.

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:41 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:38 pm If the overlay isn't pumpkin orange I will be disappointed.

Yes! Please do this. Orange background, black text.

All complaints to be addressed to Mr C Todd

Fiona T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:56 pm

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:41 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:38 pm If the overlay isn't pumpkin orange I will be disappointed.

Yes! Please do this. Orange background, black text.

All complaints to be addressed to Mr C Todd

And all compliments?

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:26 pm And all compliments?

Aw, Paul's shared some of the private messages he's received. It is genuinely humbling and heartwarming that people care so much about what started off as a bit of fun between a bunch of mates.

Link for tonight


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ClgvHzpwTU

Just started watching. Your outfit (is that the word?) is amazing Fiona! WAR LARSEN!

General feedback: I don't think in this format you should ever end round early.

I saw a numbers round the other day (I guess in Larsen's first game) where it was super easy and Paul just called a stop to it after 10 seconds.
Tonight there was one that was obviously impossible. Whether or not the contestants have realised, wouldn't that justify a stop?

I think either way, it's supposed to be more like the real show than apterous. Never end round early. Play it safe, and play it real.

Agreed and noted Matt, cheers

Disagree. I think on really easy numbers rounds, the option to end the round early should exist. It saves time, and the goal of this isn't to emulate Countdown perfectly. A large proportion of contestants come from the apterous sphere, where the option to end the round early does exist.

In the case of Zoomdown, I don't think anything is lost by always giving the full 30 seconds for each round - it prevents controversy if a player doesn't have it yet, viewers might still be working on it, closer atmosphere to TV Countdown, more time to soak up the funky disco beat, etc.

At Lincoln-style co:events, it should be the responsibility of both players to clearly indicate that they want the round to end, never the host. Several times the host has ended a numbers round prematurely for being too ez while I'm still pondering over it (go figure). I did the same as a host once and it caused one player to not notice a mistake in their written method, which is totally unfair and shouldn't be repeated.

We live in an impatient world I guess, but yeah I won't be EREing unless it's the Numberists

I noticed Paul wrote the scramble up incorrectly yesterday - luckily it didn't matter in the end.

Never read the FFNG scramble

Of course Elliott is right re 'Ending Round Early'.

Stephen Read even made a snazzy little "ERE" card to flash during painfully easy numbers rounds. If both contestants have clearly flagged that they'd like to ERE, then go for it sure.

I'd give more weight to the opinion of your statistician who's been watching since day 1, than some dude who wasn't arsed to watch till this week.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:18 pmI'd give more weight to the opinion of your statistician who's been watching since day 1, than some dude who wasn't arsed to watch till this week.

Sure, if the program is made for statisticians and pricks.

Don't mind him Matt, your opinion is most welcome.

omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg!

Sometimes it's actually the right choice of words

Matt Morrison wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:39 pm Sure, if the program is made for statisticians and pricks.

ooh, touchy!

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:43 pm

Matt Morrison wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:39 pm Sure, if the program is made for statisticians and pricks.

ooh, touchy!

Don't worry, nobody on this forum thinks you're a statistician.

Robert Foster wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:23 pm In the case of Zoomdown, I don't think anything is lost by always giving the full 30 seconds for each round - it prevents controversy if a player doesn't have it yet, viewers might still be working on it, closer atmosphere to TV Countdown, more time to soak up the funky disco beat, etc.

At Lincoln-style co:events, it should be the responsibility of both players to clearly indicate that they want the round to end, never the host. Several times the host has ended a numbers round prematurely for being too ez while I'm still pondering over it (go figure). I did the same as a host once and it caused one player to not notice a mistake in their written method, which is totally unfair and shouldn't be repeated.

I agree with this. As tedious as the occasional 30s of thumb twiddling will be, its better to err on the side of not ending round early.

I don't think the argument of "Apterous does it so ZoomDown should" is a particularly good one. They are different beasts.

Yeah think I'm in the no ERE camp - except mebbe the numberists specials. When RELATIONS comes out, the person declaring second can take the opportunity to sketch a rude drawing on their declaration paper.

Paul Anderson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:23 pm omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg!

Sometimes it's actually the right choice of words

Need a thump on the back Paul? Heimlich manoeuvre a no-no in these socially distanced times.

I’m fine now thanks. Unwinding to a bit of Wheeler Dealers

JackHurst wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:54 pm Don't worry, nobody on this forum thinks you're a statistician.

Cool, you're now a spokesperson for everyone on this forum! I hadn't heard. Congrats.
Between that, and helping make Zoomdown what it is... I reckon a "Spoon of Awesome" nom is called for.

JackHurst wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:54 pm I don't think the argument of "Apterous does it so ZoomDown should" is a particularly good one. They are different beasts.

Yeah, but it's not Countdown either.
It is very similar to both of 'em.
And if they are smart (which they are) they'll incorporate the best aspects of both into their show.

Countdown needs the full 30s each time because it is a televised quiz show, with very strict timing criteria to adhere to.
Zoomdown caters to a high brow audience, and has more fluidity re: show durations... and I do not recall a single complaint from the viewers (in chat) any time the Maths rounds have been ended early by mutual agreement from the contestants involved.

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:08 pm
Countdown needs the full 30s each time because it is a televised quiz show, with very strict timing criteria to adhere to.
Zoomdown caters to a high brow audience, and has more fluidity re: show durations... and I do not recall a single complaint from the viewers (in chat) any time the Maths rounds have been ended early by mutual agreement from the contestants involved.

I understand these points, and yes I totally agree from the point of view of production there's not an argument against ere on ZoomDown as much as there is on the tv show.

The problem is that there is a line that can be crossed by ending round early (as Rob pointed out). That line isn't very easy to define and there will be mistakes. If you end the round early on 101 with a 1 and a 100 in the selection that's obviously fine and it won't cause a problem for that round. You obviously wouldn't end it early on a tricky 4L that might not be possible. Where in the difficulty spectrum does it change from ere to 30s and can you even define that? Would you end a 6s with 1 1 2 2 3 3 as the numbers early because you know both players are getting 0 pts?

There should be zero tolerance because allowing ANY eres means you may eventually encourage eres which the host/player deems to be acceptable which then upset/fluster/frustrate the other player. Yes 100 + 1 ere seems obvious. But then that leads to 100*7 + 1 being ere and then (100 + 10) * 7 +1 being ere and so on until you get to a point where there are mistakes.

Can't remember the specific round, but something on telly this week where Rachel revealed the target then kinda rolled her eyes and said "uh xxx" like it was totally obvious. Took me full 25 of the 30 secs to spot it - was obvious once I did, but I didn't see it straight up.

I agree with what you are saying, Jack.

My opinion:
The only time that ERE would be acceptable, is if both contestants CLEARLY indicate that they wish it to end. (like for example, by holding up a piece of paper, doing eye rolls to camera, or whatever the agreed 'safe word' equivalent is.)

One of the great strengths of ZD is the light and breezy presentation style... the personal touch. The feeling that you are among friends.
If the target were 101, with a 100 and a 1 in the selection, I think the majority of the viewers aka Countdowners and Apterites... would find it weird if 30s were insisted on.

I think it has to be "zzzz" levels of obvious. One step, maybe two. But definitely not the 771 = (100 + 10) x 7 + 1 example.

Ok, I think we'll implement it IF AND ONLY if both players clearly indicate their desire.

Yeah that's fair. It's quite easy in person as you can say a lot in a simple look shared between host and contestant. A bit tougher over a Zoom call to know what people are looking at or what a look means but as long as declaring your willingness to end early isn't too obvious in a way that might affect the other contestant's concentration then it could work.

Well i guess you'll all have heard by now that the Lexicographer General will be gracing us with her presence for this season's grand finale. Obviously this is way ahead of even my own personal ambitions for the show, very exciting.
Any thoughts?

A. Ma. Zing.
Fab. U. Lous.

(etc)

Impressive signing.

I can't help but feel we need a better twitter presence, something I'm not great at. Definite vacancy there, guaranteed hours, great exposure

"Susie agreeing to appear on Zoomdown is the most significant thing to have happened to the Countdown community since the founding of Apterous."

That's my thought.

Paul Anderson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:28 am I can't help but feel we need a better twitter presence, something I'm not great at. Definite vacancy there, guaranteed hours, great exposure

And we have a new Twitter admin in the form of Spike!

Much appreciated!

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:24 am "Susie agreeing to appear on Zoomdown is the most significant thing to have happened to the Countdown community since the founding of Apterous."

That's my thought.

The most interesting part is she wants to lex rather than just be a guest. I’ve been trying to get my head around it

Paul Anderson wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:52 pm

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:24 am "Susie agreeing to appear on Zoomdown is the most significant thing to have happened to the Countdown community since the founding of Apterous."

That's my thought.

The most interesting part is she wants to lex rather than just be a guest. I’ve been trying to get my head around it

I hope she's up to the task.

Lol...I skimmed her cv, should be fine