c4countdown

It's about time that there was a new dictionary. When used recently with the 'wordcamera' (one word or two?) I saw above and below the word being shown, the 'words' Ann Boleyn and Ann Of Cleeves! What kind of dictionary has names in it? Perhaps contestants might stand a better chance if a better one was found. In recent programmes I and my wife were amazed by the word 'Airplane' being allowed even though it is the American spelling - it is noted in all the dictionaries I consulted. 'Teapot' was disallowed the other day as it seems it is TWO WORDS !! Again my dictionaries write it as one word and in the subtitles it is spelled all in one. I bet that in the scripts and in the rules it is one word as well. It is a bad thing if a contestant is in danger of losing a contest due to faulty decisions. Well-known and often-used words are 'not in the dictionary' whereas the most made-up American words, foreign words silly child-speak words, especially if nobody has ever heard of them are trotted out as examples. Why does Susie have to look up every single word, however well known?

Keith Hazell wrote:It's about time that there was a new dictionary. When used recently with the 'wordcamera' (one word or two?) I saw above and below the word being shown, the 'words' Ann Boleyn and Ann Of Cleeves! What kind of dictionary has names in it? Perhaps contestants might stand a better chance if a better one was found. In recent programmes I and my wife were amazed by the word 'Airplane' being allowed even though it is the American spelling - it is noted in all the dictionaries I consulted. 'Teapot' was disallowed the other day as it seems it is TWO WORDS !! Again my dictionaries write it as one word and in the subtitles it is spelled all in one. I bet that in the scripts and in the rules it is one word as well. It is a bad thing if a contestant is in danger of losing a contest due to faulty decisions. Well-known and often-used words are 'not in the dictionary' whereas the most made-up American words, foreign words silly child-speak words, especially if nobody has ever heard of them are trotted out as examples. Why does Susie have to look up every single word, however well known?

Welcome, troll.

Keith Hazell wrote:It's about time that there was a new dictionary. When used recently with the 'wordcamera' (one word or two?) I saw above and below the word being shown, the 'words' Ann Boleyn and Ann Of Cleeves! What kind of dictionary has names in it? Perhaps contestants might stand a better chance if a better one was found. In recent programmes I and my wife were amazed by the word 'Airplane' being allowed even though it is the American spelling - it is noted in all the dictionaries I consulted. 'Teapot' was disallowed the other day as it seems it is TWO WORDS !! Again my dictionaries write it as one word and in the subtitles it is spelled all in one. I bet that in the scripts and in the rules it is one word as well. It is a bad thing if a contestant is in danger of losing a contest due to faulty decisions. Well-known and often-used words are 'not in the dictionary' whereas the most made-up American words, foreign words silly child-speak words, especially if nobody has ever heard of them are trotted out as examples. Why does Susie have to look up every single word, however well known?

For a start, TEAPOT is one word and is allowed - no idea where you got that idea from. Next, you moan that some well known words aren't in the dictionary and then moan when Susie looks up well known words!? Surely she is trying to be as fair as possible. Perhaps you can give us some concrete examples?

Kirk Bevins wrote:For a start, TEAPOT is one word and is allowed - no idea where you got that idea from. Next, you moan that some well known words aren't in the dictionary and then moan when Susie looks up well known words!? Surely she is trying to be as fair as possible. Perhaps you can give us some concrete examples?

Please don't feed the troll. Specious 'complaints' featuring at least six factual errors, posting in an entirely inappropriate forum, violating board policy by launching straight in without an introduction... clearly this person is just trying to wind you up (successfuly, it would seem).

Phil Reynolds wrote:

Kirk Bevins wrote:For a start, TEAPOT is one word and is allowed - no idea where you got that idea from. Next, you moan that some well known words aren't in the dictionary and then moan when Susie looks up well known words!? Surely she is trying to be as fair as possible. Perhaps you can give us some concrete examples?

Please don't feed the troll. Specious 'complaints' featuring at least six factual errors, posting in an entirely inappropriate forum, violating board policy by launching straight in without an introduction... clearly this person is just trying to wind you up (successfuly, it would seem).

He doesn't sound that annoyed. I for one enjoy feeding the trolls, and I think the rest of c4c are in my hypothetical boat. How else would you explain the longevity of Jon Corby on here?

Jon O'Neill wrote:How else would you explain the longevity of Jon Corby on here?

I have photographs of Reams

Regardless of whether we think Keith is a troll or not, maybe this thread doesn't belong in 'spoilers'. A move to 'general' perhaps?

Julie T wrote:Regardless of whether we think Keith is a troll or not, maybe this thread doesn't belong in 'spoilers'. A move to 'general' perhaps?

Deliberately posting in the wrong forum was all part of the trollage. If it were up to me, I would just quietly bin it.

Keith's specious complaint about AIRPLANE does raise one interesting point, one I've been curious about for a while. What exactly do the rules say about words from US English? I've never heard them explained on air but have always assumed from the way they're applied that, where the American word is different (as in AEROPLANE/AIRPLANE), both are allowed; while where the same word is used but merely spelt differently (as in TRAVELLER/TRAVELER, COLOUR/COLOR) the US spelling is disallowed.

If my understanding is correct: would ALUMINUM be allowed? Logically, you would think it would as it's pronounced differently to ALUMINIUM (and, like AEROPLANE/AIRPLANE, it's not just a difference in stress - the words have different syllable counts); but, for some reason, gut feeling tells me it wouldn't - I don't think I would risk it on the show unless its viability had been confirmed to me previously.

Can anyone clarify what the rules are?

Phil Reynolds wrote:Keith's specious complaint about AIRPLANE does raise one interesting point, one I've been curious about for a while. What exactly do the rules say about words from US English? I've never heard them explained on air but have always assumed from the way they're applied that, where the American word is different (as in AEROPLANE/AIRPLANE), both are allowed; while where the same word is used but merely spelt differently (as in TRAVELLER/TRAVELER, COLOUR/COLOR) the US spelling is disallowed.

Your understanding is correct (Susie occasionally explains it when a word like HAULER comes up) although I can't tell you the specific ALUMINUM case off-hand.

Phil Reynolds wrote:If my understanding is correct: would ALUMINUM be allowed? Logically, you would think it would as it's pronounced differently to ALUMINIUM (and, like AEROPLANE/AIRPLANE, it's not just a difference in stress - the words have different syllable counts); but, for some reason, gut feeling tells me it wouldn't - I don't think I would risk it on the show unless its viability had been confirmed to me previously.

Can anyone clarify what the rules are?

HAULER is listed as a North American term for HAULIER (under a separate entry), whereas ALUMINUM is specified purely as a US spelling of ALUMINIUM, so I suspect that difference would mean that you are correct and that ALUMINUM would be verboten. And quite right too in my small-minded anti-American opinion!

Mike Brown wrote:HAULER is listed as a North American term for HAULIER (under a separate entry), whereas ALUMINUM is specified purely as a US spelling of ALUMINIUM

But can you (or anyone else) explain why they're treated differently? In both cases the US version involves dropping the letter I and - crucially - the consequent loss of a syllable. So why is it considered a different word in one case, but merely a different pronunciation in the other?

Phil Reynolds wrote:But can you (or anyone else) explain why they're treated differently?

Xenophobia.

Charlie Reams wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:But can you (or anyone else) explain why they're treated differently?

Xenophobia.

Um, no. That might be a glib answer to the question of why American spellings aren't allowed on Countdown, but that's not what I asked. What I asked was why the ODE defines HAULER in a separate entry from HAULIER while ALUMINUM is simply given as a US spelling of ALUMINIUM. Does anyone know?

The ODE is not a model of consistency. But, to be fair, I think if I was asked the two in isolation, I'd say HAULER/HAULIER were two different words, but ALUMINIUM/ALUMINUM were different spellings of the same word. The chances of anyone noticing that actually the difference is just the same are pretty small. How, in practice, could you other than pure luck? I'm still not sure which, if any, I'd say was wrong.