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Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 8:46 pm
by Fiona T
If you're just checking words while playing along on the telly rather than hosting a co-event game, you might be better to use the web form version at
https://focaltools.azurewebsites.net/Fo ... ecker.aspx
It uses exactly the same API/dictionary as Tom's tool but won't count towards Tom's monthly usage limits on his hosting plan.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:17 am
by Simon Haigh
OK - I accept this is the definitive dictionary to use but it's just about the only dictionary that won't accept IMAGOES
Oh well...
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:53 am
by Simon Haigh
The other day I had UNPOSTED as an answer
Not valid according to that checker yet recently it has been allowed as an answer and DC has quoted it as valid
Confused...
(I allowed it)
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:59 am
by Fiona T
Double checked - unposted definitely not in odp - not under posted, nothing for unpost or unposted.
As far as I can see it was last allowed in August 2023 which was before the big dictionary purge earlier this year which hit our screens mid September. Words from before then may well not be valid now (see minuter x which Fiona Wood declared and was allowed earlier this series, but was disallowed when Rob Baker declared it in October)
https://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_8078
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:00 am
by Gavin Chipper
Simon Haigh wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 8:53 am
The other day I had UNPOSTED as an answer
Not valid according to that checker yet recently it has been allowed as an answer and DC has quoted it as valid
Confused...
(I allowed it)
How recently? Harry Savage had it in
August 2023 but since then there's been a purge of words from the online dictionary which had got bloated with too many obscure words that aren't used much in real life any more. Whether "unposted" fits that description, I'll leave open to discussion.
Seems Fiona beat me.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:03 am
by Fiona T
How many Gev points do I get?
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:05 am
by Gavin Chipper
Fiona T wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 9:03 am
How many Gev points do I get?
9 is the maximum.
Though in a two-person race, 667.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 10:12 pm
by Philip A
Minor spoiler on the Halloween episode, but
Anyone else think it’s time for Countdown to completely scrap the “restaurant rule” which allows mass nouns which are foods to be pluralised, after Susie disallowed ‘poteens’? Not really fit for purpose IMHO. Just disallow all mass nouns without count noun sentences and there’s no overruling of the source dictionary.
Instead, if Susie believes a mass noun should have a count noun sentence, she should notify the lexicographers to add an example in, like she did with new words when she asked the OUP to include ‘worldie’.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 7:30 am
by Gavin Chipper
Probably should get rid. It made no sense to disallow poteens as it was.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:59 pm
by Matthew Brockwell
Susie is right on poteens imo, poteen (and moonshine) refer to alcohol produced by illicit methods not a drink or beverage.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:01 pm
by Gavin Chipper
Matthew Brockwell wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:59 pm
Susie is right on poteens imo, poteen (and moonshine) refer to alcohol produced by illicit methods not a drink or beverage.
Sounds nice. I'll have two.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:38 am
by David Williams
The restaurant rule was brought in because words like BRANDY and LAGER had no count noun specified. Last time I looked they had put count noun meanings in the dictionary. The same is true of many other mass nouns whose plurals were deemed acceptable. The rule is pretty much redundant.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 4:27 pm
by Gavin Chipper
David Williams wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:38 am
The restaurant rule was brought in because words like BRANDY and LAGER had no count noun specified. Last time I looked they had put count noun meanings in the dictionary. The same is true of many other mass nouns whose plurals were deemed acceptable. The rule is pretty much redundant.
I think there was also an inconsistency because words that end in Y (e.g. BRANDY) had their plurals specified so BRANDIES was allowed but not LAGERS. Is this right?
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 2:58 pm
by Philip A
Question. Does Countdown use a second dictionary?
The reason why I’m asking this is because the words ‘goopier’ underneath ‘goopy’ and ‘pregame’ without the hyphen not in Oxford Dictionaries Premium, but do appear in the Google dictionary powered by Oxford Languages and have been suggested by Susie. On Apterous, ‘goopier’ is not in, but ‘pregame’ is. The Google dictionary also has no indication of ‘costumer’ being an American spelling of ‘costumier’.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:18 pm
by Stewart Gordon
Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 4:27 pmI think there was also an inconsistency because words that end in Y (e.g. BRANDY) had their plurals specified so BRANDIES was allowed but not LAGERS. Is this right?
Was LAGERS ever disallowed? If it was, it shouldn't have been.
Matthew Brockwell wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:59 pmSusie is right on poteens imo, poteen (and moonshine) refer to alcohol produced by illicit methods not a drink or beverage.
Are you sure? It seems to me both terms denote an actual drink (or class of drink) rather than pure ethanol. As far as I can remember, POTEENS was disallowed on the basis that, because it's illicit, you can't order one or two of them at a bar.
David Williams wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:38 amThe restaurant rule was brought in because words like BRANDY and LAGER had no count noun specified.
Is "restaurant rule" the official name of this rule? I'm curious as to where it came from. I've always called it the "portions rule". Similarly "varieties rule" for the other situation I can think of for mass nouns becoming count nouns. Does this have an official name as well?
Last time I looked they had put count noun meanings in the dictionary. The same is true of many other mass nouns whose plurals were deemed acceptable. The rule is pretty much redundant.
There are no "mass nouns whose plurals were deemed acceptable". A mass noun, by definition, has no plural. What
may have a plural, however, is a count noun that is derived (either explicitly in the dictionary, or implicitly by Countdown rules) from the mass noun.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:21 pm
by Fiona T
Philip A wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 2:58 pm
Question. Does Countdown use a second dictionary?
The reason why I’m asking this is because the words ‘goopier’ underneath ‘goopy’ and ‘pregame’ without the hyphen not in Oxford Dictionaries Premium, but do appear in the Google dictionary powered by Oxford Languages and have been suggested by Susie. On Apterous, ‘goopier’ is not in, but ‘pregame’ is. The Google dictionary also has no indication of ‘costumer’ being an American spelling of ‘costumier’.
pregame became hyphenated in the January ODP update (along with a bunch of other stuff). Today's filming was presumably prior to that update.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:02 pm
by Philip A
Fiona T wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:21 pm
Philip A wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 2:58 pm
Question. Does Countdown use a second dictionary?
The reason why I’m asking this is because the words ‘goopier’ underneath ‘goopy’ and ‘pregame’ without the hyphen not in Oxford Dictionaries Premium, but do appear in the Google dictionary powered by Oxford Languages and have been suggested by Susie. On Apterous, ‘goopier’ is not in, but ‘pregame’ is. The Google dictionary also has no indication of ‘costumer’ being an American spelling of ‘costumier’.
pregame became hyphenated in the January ODP update (along with a bunch of other stuff). Today's filming was presumably prior to that update.
Ah, interesting. Thanks, was wondering why is was suggested.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:04 pm
by Philip A
Stewart Gordon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:18 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 4:27 pmI think there was also an inconsistency because words that end in Y (e.g. BRANDY) had their plurals specified so BRANDIES was allowed but not LAGERS. Is this right?
Was LAGERS ever disallowed? If it was, it shouldn't have been.
Matthew Brockwell wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:59 pmSusie is right on poteens imo, poteen (and moonshine) refer to alcohol produced by illicit methods not a drink or beverage.
Are you sure? It seems to me both terms denote an actual drink (or class of drink) rather than pure ethanol. As far as I can remember, POTEENS was disallowed on the basis that, because it's illicit, you can't order one or two of them at a bar.
David Williams wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:38 amThe restaurant rule was brought in because words like BRANDY and LAGER had no count noun specified.
Is "restaurant rule" the official name of this rule? I'm curious as to where it came from. I've always called it the "portions rule". Similarly "varieties rule" for the other situation I can think of for mass nouns becoming count nouns. Does this have an official name as well?
Last time I looked they had put count noun meanings in the dictionary. The same is true of many other mass nouns whose plurals were deemed acceptable. The rule is pretty much redundant.
There are no "mass nouns whose plurals were deemed acceptable". A mass noun, by definition, has no plural. What
may have a plural, however, is a count noun that is derived (either explicitly in the dictionary, or implicitly by Countdown rules) from the mass noun.
There are no official dictionary rules as such. They are just guidelines. Unfortunately, it’s interpretation that causes the problem.
Re: How do I know if my word is valid?
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:33 pm
by Gavin Chipper
Stewart Gordon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:18 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 4:27 pmI think there was also an inconsistency because words that end in Y (e.g. BRANDY) had their plurals specified so BRANDIES was allowed but not LAGERS. Is this right?
Was LAGERS ever disallowed? If it was, it shouldn't have been.
It was. Episodes
3086,
3118,
3263 and
3312 in the range 24th September 2001 to 30th August 2002, and series 46 to 48, so four times in less than a year. I presume this was to do with the NODE dictionary that was used at the time and that it was this sort of thing that triggered the "restaurant" rule.