c4countdown

PeterMabey wrote: (For example, although 'beat your swords into ploughshares' is often quoted, there's a passage in Joel which says the exact opposite. )

There's a real reason for that- for my Religious Studies GCSE, one of the topics was War, and in the paper you write about Christian beliefs on it. Of course, you have to both balance it and add in Bible quotes as evidence. That nifty quote from Joel is pro-war, which has helped out a bunch of GCSE students in their paper! Unfortunately, I don't remember many of the quotes, as I learned them just for the purpose of the paper then forgot them again. In Joel, will the Lord our God crush the people that are being referred to as the enemy? I can remember more of the swords into ploughshares one for some reason.
Of course, you can pretty much justify anything in the Bible. Euthanasia? Yep! "Love thy neighbour" (Exodus?" The most loving thing to do is to end the patient's pain in that case. Abortion? Again, "love thy neighbour" - if the woman having the baby won't be able to cope, the most loving thing to do in this case is allow her to have an abortion. Actually, "Love thy neighbour" seems to be the sole justification most things that Christians dislike.

Funnily enough, the other part of my GCSE was on Islam. I'm all for respecting beliefs but I can't respect some of theirs as they're so sexist to women. (Actually, so was the Bible, but Christian attitudes towards women have at least advanced since the Bible was written. Shame some bright Muslim doesn't realise that the right thing to do is advance their beliefs onwards a few hundred years!)

Charlie Reams wrote:Arguments for tolerance are based on the assumption that atheism and theism are somehow equally plausible and consistent. This is not the case.

You're right and we don't have to simply tolerate others' religions. As several people have said over the years, people's political opinions are "fair game" for attack but for some reason we all "have to" show respect for people's religious views. I remember when I was at school the RE teacher (he was actually a biology teacher but for some reason taught us RE for a bit) was going on about how Anglicans (I think it was them) believe that the wine used in communion actually turns into the blood of Jesus, whereas Catholics (might have been them) just think of it as a representation or something.

So the boy next to me said something like "So when the Anglicans take communion, does Jesus suffer a massive blood loss?" Perfectly reasonable, but the stupid teacher launched into a rant about respecting religions and rubbish and then went on to contradict what he'd said earlier and made out that it was just a representation. So if you're reading this, shame on you Mr. Bishop. The annoying thing about teachers is that too many of them place themselves on this pedestal, and you can't have a discussion with them; it has to be them teaching you and you can't object to anything. Idiots.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

Charlie Reams wrote:Arguments for tolerance are based on the assumption that atheism and theism are somehow equally plausible and consistent. This is not the case.

You're right and we don't have to simply tolerate others' religions. As several people have said over the years, people's political opinions are "fair game" for attack but for some reason we all "have to" show respect for people's religious views. I remember when I was at school the RE teacher (he was actually a biology teacher but for some reason taught us RE for a bit) was going on about how Anglicans (I think it was them) believe that the wine used in communion actually turns into the blood of Jesus, whereas Catholics (might have been them) just think of it as a representation or something.

So the boy next to me said something like "So when the Anglicans take communion, does Jesus suffer a massive blood loss?" Perfectly reasonable, but the stupid teacher launched into a rant about respecting religions and rubbish and then went on to contradict what he'd said earlier and made out that it was just a representation. So if you're reading this, shame on you Mr. Bishop. The annoying thing about teachers is that too many of them place themselves on this pedestal, and you can't have a discussion with them; it has to be them teaching you and you can't object to anything. Idiots.

I've long since thought those with strong religious beliefs of their own should NOT teach RE in schools, and that story is a good example why.

(And I'm pretty sure you mixed up Catholics and Anglicans.)

'transubstantiation' (if I spelt it right) is the bread and wine turning into actual body and blood. The belief is RC but also some Anglicans as well - mainly 'High Church'

By the way, we have moved quite long way on this bus, and it does sound as if a lot of people feel like I do about religion. If you want to know more about non-religious ceremonies go to http://www.humanism.org.uk. That is the British Humanist Association and they do funerals as well as baby namings, weddings and civil partnership ceremonies.
Best wishes.

Jon Corby wrote:Once you've married them you won't be getting anywhere near those appetising vaginas though. Why include that clause?

I can't lose. If God forgives me for thinking he must be a cruel Bastard, and lets me into Heaven, i'll have the Angels.
If he's frightened that I might corrupt all his "good" people; and sends me to Hell, I'll have all the naughty girls waiting for me. (I'll think that I'm in Heaven)

If I've been right all my life, I'll be Barbecued, and my ashes put in the wheelie bin, then in grow bags sold by B&Q's, and end up all over Kent. As I said I can't lose. Halliluliah.

One Question. The law of cause and effect. WHO MADE GOD?


Oh dear, I've just had a terrible thought. Are Angels Ladies or Men?

I think this tells us everything we need to know on the subject of God, and we can move on.

(While Googling for the above, I came across this, which is also rather good if nowhere near as concise.)

Rosemary Roberts wrote:

Hannah O wrote: if I was omniscient and loving, I think I could forgive someone who didn't believe in me

You have to remember that you see into "the mind of god" only via the mind of one or other flavour of believer. And they are not omniscient and loving at all - they are narrow minded, petty, mean and vengeful. There is no evidence whatever for any form of supernatural being or supernatural experience apart from the fact that the diseased or disordered mind can create any desired aberration and inanity.

If one person suffers from delusions, he or she is put in a Mental home.
If a million people suffer from the same delusions, it's called Religion. (Richard Dawkins)

I got on a bus today and sat next to God. The title of this thread looks a bit silly now and I take back everything I've said about God.

Gavin Chipper wrote:I got on a bus today and sat next to God. The title of this thread looks a bit silly now and I take back everything I've said about God.

Glad you've seen the light Gavin, so have I. I've decided that God is good, and will be a great asset to my Bank balance. We'll get together and save the sinners, whom will send us loads of momey, like they do for Billy Graham.

There has just been a feature on the atheist bus campaign on BBC Three's The Noughties . . . Was That It?. Ariane Sherine herself featured talking about it.

If you want to see it, it is almost exactly an hour into the programme. It will be repeated several times and on iPlayer.

Zombie thread strikes again!

Without getting involved in the whole theism thing I saw this recently and thought it was amazing. It's well worth a look

Lesley Hines wrote:Without getting involved in the whole theism thing I saw this recently and thought it was amazing. It's well worth a look

Good old Tim Minchin. I spent the year I was 33 telling people I was 'the same age as our Lord, when he died on the cross for us'. I think it scared a few people

Sue Sanders wrote:I spent the year I was 33 telling people I was 'the same age as our Lord, when he died on the cross for us'. I think it scared a few people

Not least the bus driver who was only asking if you had the right change.

Anyway, Jesus died for our sins. Now let's get our money's worth!

Lesley Hines wrote:Without getting involved in the whole theism thing I saw this recently and thought it was amazing. It's well worth a look

Superb - thanks Lesley. One man, so much sense.

Phil Reynolds wrote:

Lesley Hines wrote:Without getting involved in the whole theism thing I saw this recently and thought it was amazing. It's well worth a look

Superb - thanks Lesley. One man, so much sense.

Brilliant! Love this guy!

The lovechild of Eddie Izzard and Bill Bailey

Jon O'Neill wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:Superb - thanks Lesley. One man, so much sense.

Brilliant! Love this guy!

Cheers Jono, the feeling's mutual.

Marc Meakin wrote:The lovechild of Eddie Izzard and Bill Bailey

lol. So true.

Although he does look a bit like Avid Merrion (Leigh Francis)

Derek Hazell wrote:There has just been a feature on the atheist bus campaign on BBC Three's The Noughties . . . Was That It?. Ariane Sherine herself featured talking about it.

If you want to see it, it is almost exactly an hour into the programme. It will be repeated several times and on iPlayer.

She's just been on again very briefly talking about Twitter - but not really worth watching for especially.

Derek Hazell wrote:

Derek Hazell wrote:There has just been a feature on the atheist bus campaign on BBC Three's The Noughties . . . Was That It?. Ariane Sherine herself featured talking about it.

If you want to see it, it is almost exactly an hour into the programme. It will be repeated several times and on iPlayer.

She's just been on again very briefly talking about Twitter - but not really worth watching for especially.

She also wrote a good article in this December's Esquire.

BUMP!

Shiane was the lady that Crispy played

Rhys Benjamin wrote:BUMP!

Shiane was the lady that Crispy played

Indeed, twice. Once on the show, and again on Crispy's radio show, which Damian provided the conundrum for. Sherine won that as well. There is a topic on C4C about it somewhere.