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Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:25 pm
by Jennifer Steadman
What's the fewest number of points dropped during an octorun? It would be cool to see a table of points available, points scored, and where points were dropped (i.e. on letters, numbers and conundrums). If that's possible.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:19 am
by Dave Preece
Guy Barry wrote:
Dave Preece wrote:Has the same question ever been asked thrice in a row on this thread?
That wasn't the same as the last two questions, so I presume the answer's no.
Fishy-fishy...

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:02 pm
by Jon Stitcher
So no player has maxed every numbers game in an octorun, what's the most amount of numbers games someone has played and maintained a 100% record on the show?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:03 pm
by Andy Platt
I think Worsley only missed one in his 7th or 8th heat game.

Edit:- 7th game, round 5, ie overall his 19th numbers round. I reckon nobody will have more than that.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:10 pm
by Jon Stitcher
I know Andy,

I'm asking what's the most amount of numbers games played where a player maintained a 100% record throughout their entire run. so losing the 5th game but maxing every numbers for example.

I'm expecting it to be someone who lost their first game but maxed all the numbers.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:11 pm
by Jon Stitcher
But I see the ambiguity in my post. so I thank you for your response.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:39 pm
by Philip Wilson
Apologies if this has been asked before, but has a teatime teaser solution ever appeared in subsequent rounds in the same programme? If so did the contestants solve it [assuming there wasn't a 9 letter word in that round to win with]? Or perhaps if this happens, do they just record a new teatime teaser and edit it in?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:43 pm
by Ben Wilson
Philip Wilson wrote:Apologies if this has been asked before, but has a teatime teaser solution ever appeared in subsequent rounds in the same programme? If so did the contestants solve it [assuming there wasn't a 9 letter word in that round to win with]? Or perhaps if this happens, do they just record a new teatime teaser and edit it in?
By happy coincidence, the person who posted before you is in the best position to answer that question.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:17 pm
by Philip Wilson
Ben Wilson wrote:
Philip Wilson wrote:Apologies if this has been asked before, but has a teatime teaser solution ever appeared in subsequent rounds in the same programme? If so did the contestants solve it [assuming there wasn't a 9 letter word in that round to win with]? Or perhaps if this happens, do they just record a new teatime teaser and edit it in?
By happy coincidence, the person who posted before you is in the best position to answer that question.
Brilliant! Thanx. In the very next round too! Thinking about it I guess there would be too much give-away reaction from everybody present to just record a different teaser.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:45 pm
by Graeme Cole

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:55 pm
by Graeme Cole
Johnny Canuck wrote:A while back, I asked the same question. I believe 10 games have had two instances in a row of the same target... or 11 including this most recent one.

If Graeme will kindly accept ANOTHER two questions from me:
* What word has most frequently been used as a conundrum?
* What is the most frequently used conundrum scramble?
ABSCONDED, APPLAUDED, DECLARING, DESTROYED, EXCEPTION, FORTUNATE, IMPLICATE, INSOLENCE, MEMORABLE, PERPETUAL, POLLUTION, PONDERING, SCRATCHED, TEMPORARY and TURBULENT have all been used five times as of the end of series 68.

The most-used conundrum scramble is LOVEFRAUD, which has been used four times (and never been solved!)... http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_964 http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_1213 http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_4663 http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_4805

19 scrambles have been used three times, including GREATDRIP which was used in two series finals, series 14 and series 52. Incidentally, the series 52 final came less than two years after the same scramble was used in a heat game. Also notable in this list is FREEDRUTH, which was, presumably accidentally, given to the same player twice: episode 611 and episode 614.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:28 pm
by Graeme Cole
Jennifer Steadman wrote:What's the fewest number of points dropped during an octorun? It would be cool to see a table of points available, points scored, and where points were dropped (i.e. on letters, numbers and conundrums). If that's possible.
Table of points scored by 15-round octochamps in heat games, divided by round type, along with the max available in each round type, sorted by total points dropped. Points dropped is the max minus your score, so if you got a seven but were beaten by an eight, and that was the max, you still dropped eight points. Tiebreaks aren't counted.

Code: Select all

                       LETTERS       MAX   NUMBERS       MAX     CONS       MAX      TOTAL        MAX  DROPPED
Craig Beevers              609       667       228       240       70        80        907        987       80      
Edward McCullagh           602       659       234       240       60        80        896        979       83      
Jack Hurst                 655       717       231       234       60        80        946       1031       85      
Julian Fell                650       701       194       234       80        80        924       1015       91      
Giles Hutchings            609       669       286       311       70        80        965       1060       95      
Kirk Bevins                644       711       221       240       60        80        925       1031      106     
David O'Donnell            600       681       220       234       60        80        880        995      115     
Chris Davies               626       693       196       240       70        80        892       1013      121     
Conor Travers              609       704       211       237       70        80        890       1021      131     
Jonathan Rawlinson         565       662       205       240       80        80        850        982      132     
Eoin Monaghan              609       711       229       240       60        80        898       1031      133     
Adam Gillard               612       724       221       240       70        80        903       1044      141     
Andrew Hulme               646       757       214       240       70        80        930       1077      147     
Andy Platt                 620       682       239       274       30        80        889       1036      147     
Innis Carson               598       691       193       240       70        80        861       1011      150     
Stewart Holden             618       711       182       234       70        80        870       1025      155     
Martin Bishop              566       667       193       225       50        80        809        972      163     
Paul Gallen                585       693       211       237       50        80        846       1010      164     
Tom Hargreaves             587       695       213       240       50        80        850       1015      165     
Graeme Cole                568       666       215       234       30        80        813        980      167     
Lee Hartley                552       670       189       229       70        80        811        979      168     
Jon Corby                  586       704       210       240       60        80        856       1024      168     
Daniel Pati                589       688       171       240       80        80        840       1008      168     
Richard Heald              562       651       193       234       40        80        795        965      170     
George Greenhough          564       668       183       240       70        80        817        988      171     
Grace Page                 591       682       188       240       50        80        829       1002      173     
Mark Deeks                 546       681       228       237       50        80        824        998      174     
Oliver Garner              565       661       207       237       30        80        802        978      176     
Paul Howe                  550       683       215       234       50        80        815        997      182     
Marcus Hares               572       710       202       227       60        80        834       1017      183     
Chris Cummins              557       726       231       237       70        80        858       1043      185     
Matthew Shore              617       717       183       240       50        80        850       1037      187     
Jack Welsby                576       703       215       237       40        80        831       1020      189     
Tom Rowell                 532       648       212       237       30        80        774        965      191     
Stuart Earl                541       687       196       237       70        80        807       1004      197     
Mark Tournoff              543       690       196       237       70        80        809       1007      198     
Steven Briers              562       726       221       237       60        80        843       1043      200     
James Hurrell              577       721       191       237       70        80        838       1038      200     
Tom Barnes                 586       709       186       234       50        80        822       1023      201     
Peter Lee                  572       687       169       237       60        80        801       1004      203     
John Mayhew                584       697       157       240       70        80        811       1017      206     
Jeffrey Hansford           600       707       148       237       70        80        818       1024      206     
Sweyn Kirkness             557       675       168       217       40        80        765        972      207     
Charlie Reams              579       708       191       240       50        80        820       1028      208     
Chris Wills                591       765       214       240       70        80        875       1085      210     
Michael Macdonald-Cooper   602       675       138       237       40        80        780        992      212     
Jack Worsley               541       710       237       240       40        80        818       1030      212     
Danny Hamilton             515       663       176       234       70        80        761        977      216     
Neil Zussman               529       660       169       234       60        80        758        974      216     
Richard Brittain           582       717       218       240       20        80        820       1037      217     
Jim Bentley                492       664       214       234       50        80        756        978      222     
Kevin Thurlow              548       672       191       240       30        80        769        992      223     
John Hunt                  525       686       213       237       40        80        778       1003      225     
Jon O'Neill                520       709       224       240       60        80        804       1029      225     
John Brackstone            588       733       194       234       40        80        822       1047      225     
Scott Gillies              555       715       225       240       30        80        810       1035      225     
Paul James                 572       703       172       240       50        80        794       1023      229     
Jimmy Gough                578       694       184       237       20        80        782       1011      229     
Wendy Roe                  564       691       157       240       60        80        781       1011      230     
Kai Laddiman               510       672       166       237       80        80        756        989      233     
Junaid Mubeen              502       707       218       237       70        80        790       1024      234     
Brian Selway               524       663       172       240       50        80        746        983      237     
Cate Henderson             529       703       193       237       60        80        782       1020      238     
Shane Roberts              531       687       175       237       60        80        766       1004      238     
David Barnard              537       694       194       237       40        80        771       1011      240     
Rupert Stokoe              543       703       183       234       50        80        776       1017      241     
Ryan Taylor                557       716       225       240       10        80        792       1036      244     
Stuart Solomons            581       721       185       240       30        80        796       1041      245     
Tim Reypert                549       704       164       234       60        80        773       1018      245     
Keith Maynard              567       728       178       227       40        80        785       1035      250     
John Gray                  528       689       189       240       40        80        757       1009      252     
Paul Keane                 495       676       189       240       60        80        744        996      252     
Aaron Webber               532       713       191       234       50        80        773       1027      254     
David Edwards              485       675       202       240       50        80        737        995      258     
Martin Gardner             528       694       178       234       40        80        746       1008      262     
Steven Moir                525       721       178       230       60        80        763       1031      268     
Richard Pay                467       691       205       230       60        80        732       1001      269     
Jonathan Coles             526       705       160       230       60        80        746       1015      269     
Eileen Taylor              484       624       220       320       50        80        754       1024      270     
John Davies                505       720       221       240       40        80        766       1040      274     
Jean Webby                 501       698       177       237       60        80        738       1015      277     
Gary Male                  550       721       180       227       20        80        750       1028      278     
James Roberts              493       703       193       231       50        80        736       1014      278     
Mike Pullin                490       721       216       237       50        80        756       1038      282     
Nik Von Uexkull            517       717       172       234       60        80        749       1031      282     
David Von Geyer            499       691       165       240       60        80        724       1011      287     
Heather Styles             518       707       189       240       30        80        737       1027      290     
Liam Shaw                  490       685       178       237       40        80        708       1002      294     
Rose Boyle                 489       684       182       231       30        80        701        995      294     
Michael Bowden             511       720       208       237       20        80        739       1037      298     
Andy McGurn                505       684       167       237       30        80        702       1001      299     
Jayne Wisniewski           500       687       185       237       20        80        705       1004      299     
Carl Williams              505       691       173       237       30        80        708       1008      300     
Stu Horsey                 481       716       211       237       40        80        732       1033      301     
James Doohan               467       684       205       234       20        80        692        998      306     
Ross Allatt                528       731       173       237       40        80        741       1048      307     
Joe McGonigle              417       633       239       320       60        80        716       1033      317     
Amey Deshpande             500       735       168       221       50        80        718       1036      318     
Nick Wainwright            482       725       214       240       30        80        726       1045      319     
Brenda Jolley              509       721       149       240       60        80        718       1041      323     
Steve Wood                 468       681       167       237       40        80        675        998      323     
Chris Marshall             460       690       192       240       30        80        682       1010      328     
Ned Pendleton              466       677       188       237       10        80        664        994      330     
Tia Corkish                505       710       152       237       40        80        697       1027      330     
Julia Wilkinson            577       760       137       237       30        80        744       1077      333     
Suzi Purcell               470       708       156       237       60        80        686       1025      339     
Joe Zubaidi                474       686       151       240       40        80        665       1006      341     
Danny Pledger              448       661       167       240       20        80        635        981      346     
Judith Young               504       735       143       240       60        80        707       1055      348     
Chris McHenry              456       674       157       237       30        80        643        991      348     
Tony Warren                484       750       158       240       70        80        712       1070      358     
David Thirlwall            490       748       164       237       50        80        704       1065      361     
Jeffrey Burgin             517       731       158       237       10        80        685       1048      363     
Dave Taylor                489       750       182       234       20        80        691       1064      373
Glen Webb isn't on this table as the database only goes up to the end of series 68. He got 945 points out of 1093, dropping 148 points.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:55 pm
by Graeme Cole
Jon Stitcher wrote:I know Andy,

I'm asking what's the most amount of numbers games played where a player maintained a 100% record throughout their entire run. so losing the 5th game but maxing every numbers for example.

I'm expecting it to be someone who lost their first game but maxed all the numbers.
Up to the end of series 68, 418 people have a perfect record in all the numbers rounds they ever played on the show. Of those, Graham Dugdale played the most numbers rounds, scoring 90 out of 90 on numbers in his three games.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:47 am
by Clive Brooker
It's interesting that despite all the training support available to modern players, Julian still seems to be the letters king. How different would the picture be if all games are taken into account?
Graeme Cole wrote:Up to the end of series 68, 418 people have a perfect record in all the numbers rounds they ever played on the show. Of those, Graham Dugdale played the most numbers rounds, scoring 90 out of 90 on numbers in his three games.
Has anyone progressed further through a run before dropping his/her first points in a numbers round?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:46 am
by Dave Preece
Graeme Cole wrote:
Jennifer Steadman wrote:What's the fewest number of points dropped during an octorun? It would be cool to see a table of points available, points scored, and where points were dropped (i.e. on letters, numbers and conundrums). If that's possible.
Table of points scored by 15-round octochamps in heat games, divided by round type, along with the max available in each round type, sorted by total points dropped. Points dropped is the max minus your score, so if you got a seven but were beaten by an eight, and that was the max, you still dropped eight points. Tiebreaks aren't counted.

Code: Select all

                       LETTERS       MAX   NUMBERS       MAX     CONS       MAX      TOTAL        MAX  DROPPED
Craig Beevers              609       667       228       240       70        80        907        987       80      
Edward McCullagh           602       659       234       240       60        80        896        979       83      
Jack Hurst                 655       717       231       234       60        80        946       1031       85      
Julian Fell                650       701       194       234       80        80        924       1015       91      
Giles Hutchings            609       669       286       311       70        80        965       1060       95      
Kirk Bevins                644       711       221       240       60        80        925       1031      106     
David O'Donnell            600       681       220       234       60        80        880        995      115     
Chris Davies               626       693       196       240       70        80        892       1013      121     
Conor Travers              609       704       211       237       70        80        890       1021      131     
Jonathan Rawlinson         565       662       205       240       80        80        850        982      132     
Eoin Monaghan              609       711       229       240       60        80        898       1031      133     
Adam Gillard               612       724       221       240       70        80        903       1044      141     
Andrew Hulme               646       757       214       240       70        80        930       1077      147     
Andy Platt                 620       682       239       274       30        80        889       1036      147     
Innis Carson               598       691       193       240       70        80        861       1011      150     
Stewart Holden             618       711       182       234       70        80        870       1025      155     
Martin Bishop              566       667       193       225       50        80        809        972      163     
Paul Gallen                585       693       211       237       50        80        846       1010      164     
Tom Hargreaves             587       695       213       240       50        80        850       1015      165     
Graeme Cole                568       666       215       234       30        80        813        980      167     
Lee Hartley                552       670       189       229       70        80        811        979      168     
Jon Corby                  586       704       210       240       60        80        856       1024      168     
Daniel Pati                589       688       171       240       80        80        840       1008      168     
Richard Heald              562       651       193       234       40        80        795        965      170     
George Greenhough          564       668       183       240       70        80        817        988      171     
Grace Page                 591       682       188       240       50        80        829       1002      173     
Mark Deeks                 546       681       228       237       50        80        824        998      174     
Oliver Garner              565       661       207       237       30        80        802        978      176     
Paul Howe                  550       683       215       234       50        80        815        997      182     
Marcus Hares               572       710       202       227       60        80        834       1017      183     
Chris Cummins              557       726       231       237       70        80        858       1043      185     
Matthew Shore              617       717       183       240       50        80        850       1037      187     
Jack Welsby                576       703       215       237       40        80        831       1020      189     
Tom Rowell                 532       648       212       237       30        80        774        965      191     
Stuart Earl                541       687       196       237       70        80        807       1004      197     
Mark Tournoff              543       690       196       237       70        80        809       1007      198     
Steven Briers              562       726       221       237       60        80        843       1043      200     
James Hurrell              577       721       191       237       70        80        838       1038      200     
Tom Barnes                 586       709       186       234       50        80        822       1023      201     
Peter Lee                  572       687       169       237       60        80        801       1004      203     
John Mayhew                584       697       157       240       70        80        811       1017      206     
Jeffrey Hansford           600       707       148       237       70        80        818       1024      206     
Sweyn Kirkness             557       675       168       217       40        80        765        972      207     
Charlie Reams              579       708       191       240       50        80        820       1028      208     
Chris Wills                591       765       214       240       70        80        875       1085      210     
Michael Macdonald-Cooper   602       675       138       237       40        80        780        992      212     
Jack Worsley               541       710       237       240       40        80        818       1030      212     
Danny Hamilton             515       663       176       234       70        80        761        977      216     
Neil Zussman               529       660       169       234       60        80        758        974      216     
Richard Brittain           582       717       218       240       20        80        820       1037      217     
Jim Bentley                492       664       214       234       50        80        756        978      222     
Kevin Thurlow              548       672       191       240       30        80        769        992      223     
John Hunt                  525       686       213       237       40        80        778       1003      225     
Jon O'Neill                520       709       224       240       60        80        804       1029      225     
John Brackstone            588       733       194       234       40        80        822       1047      225     
Scott Gillies              555       715       225       240       30        80        810       1035      225     
Paul James                 572       703       172       240       50        80        794       1023      229     
Jimmy Gough                578       694       184       237       20        80        782       1011      229     
Wendy Roe                  564       691       157       240       60        80        781       1011      230     
Kai Laddiman               510       672       166       237       80        80        756        989      233     
Junaid Mubeen              502       707       218       237       70        80        790       1024      234     
Brian Selway               524       663       172       240       50        80        746        983      237     
Cate Henderson             529       703       193       237       60        80        782       1020      238     
Shane Roberts              531       687       175       237       60        80        766       1004      238     
David Barnard              537       694       194       237       40        80        771       1011      240     
Rupert Stokoe              543       703       183       234       50        80        776       1017      241     
Ryan Taylor                557       716       225       240       10        80        792       1036      244     
Stuart Solomons            581       721       185       240       30        80        796       1041      245     
Tim Reypert                549       704       164       234       60        80        773       1018      245     
Keith Maynard              567       728       178       227       40        80        785       1035      250     
John Gray                  528       689       189       240       40        80        757       1009      252     
Paul Keane                 495       676       189       240       60        80        744        996      252     
Aaron Webber               532       713       191       234       50        80        773       1027      254     
David Edwards              485       675       202       240       50        80        737        995      258     
Martin Gardner             528       694       178       234       40        80        746       1008      262     
Steven Moir                525       721       178       230       60        80        763       1031      268     
Richard Pay                467       691       205       230       60        80        732       1001      269     
Jonathan Coles             526       705       160       230       60        80        746       1015      269     
Eileen Taylor              484       624       220       320       50        80        754       1024      270     
John Davies                505       720       221       240       40        80        766       1040      274     
Jean Webby                 501       698       177       237       60        80        738       1015      277     
Gary Male                  550       721       180       227       20        80        750       1028      278     
James Roberts              493       703       193       231       50        80        736       1014      278     
Mike Pullin                490       721       216       237       50        80        756       1038      282     
Nik Von Uexkull            517       717       172       234       60        80        749       1031      282     
David Von Geyer            499       691       165       240       60        80        724       1011      287     
Heather Styles             518       707       189       240       30        80        737       1027      290     
Liam Shaw                  490       685       178       237       40        80        708       1002      294     
Rose Boyle                 489       684       182       231       30        80        701        995      294     
Michael Bowden             511       720       208       237       20        80        739       1037      298     
Andy McGurn                505       684       167       237       30        80        702       1001      299     
Jayne Wisniewski           500       687       185       237       20        80        705       1004      299     
Carl Williams              505       691       173       237       30        80        708       1008      300     
Stu Horsey                 481       716       211       237       40        80        732       1033      301     
James Doohan               467       684       205       234       20        80        692        998      306     
Ross Allatt                528       731       173       237       40        80        741       1048      307     
Joe McGonigle              417       633       239       320       60        80        716       1033      317     
Amey Deshpande             500       735       168       221       50        80        718       1036      318     
Nick Wainwright            482       725       214       240       30        80        726       1045      319     
Brenda Jolley              509       721       149       240       60        80        718       1041      323     
Steve Wood                 468       681       167       237       40        80        675        998      323     
Chris Marshall             460       690       192       240       30        80        682       1010      328     
Ned Pendleton              466       677       188       237       10        80        664        994      330     
Tia Corkish                505       710       152       237       40        80        697       1027      330     
Julia Wilkinson            577       760       137       237       30        80        744       1077      333     
Suzi Purcell               470       708       156       237       60        80        686       1025      339     
Joe Zubaidi                474       686       151       240       40        80        665       1006      341     
Danny Pledger              448       661       167       240       20        80        635        981      346     
Judith Young               504       735       143       240       60        80        707       1055      348     
Chris McHenry              456       674       157       237       30        80        643        991      348     
Tony Warren                484       750       158       240       70        80        712       1070      358     
David Thirlwall            490       748       164       237       50        80        704       1065      361     
Jeffrey Burgin             517       731       158       237       10        80        685       1048      363     
Dave Taylor                489       750       182       234       20        80        691       1064      373
Glen Webb isn't on this table as the database only goes up to the end of series 68. He got 945 points out of 1093, dropping 148 points.
Could you do the same stats for all xicounts please if possible?

Also, please could you do the same for all 9 round octochamps and xicounts!

Would make intereting reading, especially if afterwards, all stats could be leveled out in one???

Hope you can Graeme!

;-)

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:57 am
by David Barnard
Not sur eif this has been asked before as I haven't trawled through the numerous questions but do I hold the dubious honour of being the octochamp with the most disallowed words?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:48 pm
by Dave Preece
I do remember you getting a few disallowed, it didn't stop me being very impressed with your run though...

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:19 am
by David Barnard
Dave Preece wrote:I do remember you getting a few disallowed, it didn't stop me being very impressed with your run though...

Thanks :) I was no record breaker (and still wouldn't be now) I just went on for fun

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:59 pm
by Jon Stitcher
Philip Wilson wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:
Philip Wilson wrote:Apologies if this has been asked before, but has a teatime teaser solution ever appeared in subsequent rounds in the same programme? If so did the contestants solve it [assuming there wasn't a 9 letter word in that round to win with]? Or perhaps if this happens, do they just record a new teatime teaser and edit it in?
By happy coincidence, the person who posted before you is in the best position to answer that question.
Brilliant! Thanx. In the very next round too! Thinking about it I guess there would be too much give-away reaction from everybody present to just record a different teaser.

I don't know if I'd have seen this or not, but out of the corner of my eye I saw Susie laughing to the DC guest so I knew there was something funny there and then it jumped out at me. My reaction was one of sheer bewidlerment and Richard made comments about it before asking for my word so there was no chance of redoing the teaser or replaying the round.

I could probably get this on youtube actually.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:05 pm
by Jon Stitcher
Up to the end of series 68, 418 people have a perfect record in all the numbers rounds they ever played on the show. Of those, Graham Dugdale played the most numbers rounds, scoring 90 out of 90 on numbers in his three games.[/quote]

Ha, I just looked through his 9 numbers games and I am pretty sure I solved all 9 in a cumulative time of under 30 seconds!

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:45 pm
by Andy McGurn
Do I hold any countdown records? I mean, even if its something silly like "most words misdeclared as a nine", I'd love to be able to say I was a countdown record holder.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:08 pm
by James Robinson
Andy McGurn wrote:Do I hold any countdown records? I mean, even if its something silly like "most words misdeclared as a nine", I'd love to be able to say I was a countdown record holder.
Well, the only other person to misdeclare a 9 was Tony Harding in Series 47, when he declared LEGATORS as a 9 in round 1, and luckily still won by a single point!: http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_3213

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:22 pm
by Jack Worsley
You mean LEGATORS, James? ;)

On the subject of misdeclaring length, how many people have offered a word that's more than nine letters long in a letters round? I know of three cases which I'll list below, are there any more?

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_3907
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5488
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5491

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:34 am
by Andy Platt
I'm honestly not sure how you do that. lol

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:07 pm
by Chris Philpot
The recent discovery of the new species Olinguito got me thinking: what's the closest we've come to a letters selection where OLINGUITO was available, had it been a valid word at the time?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:25 am
by Philip Wilson
Jon Stitcher wrote:
I don't know if I'd have seen this or not, but out of the corner of my eye I saw Susie laughing to the DC guest so I knew there was something funny there and then it jumped out at me. My reaction was one of sheer bewidlerment and Richard made comments about it before asking for my word so there was no chance of redoing the teaser or replaying the round.

I could probably get this on youtube actually.
I'd be interested Jon.
Jon Stitcher wrote:Up to the end of series 68, 418 people have a perfect record in all the numbers rounds they ever played on the show. Of those, Graham Dugdale played the most numbers rounds, scoring 90 out of 90 on numbers in his three games.
Ha, I just looked through his 9 numbers games and I am pretty sure I solved all 9 in a cumulative time of under 30 seconds![/quote]


OMG yeah, though the 253 took me a bit longer, doing 506/2 instead.
But 100 coming up 6 times [!], and 50 twice, out of 9 is amazing luck!

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:15 pm
by Johnny Canuck
Chris Philpot wrote:The recent discovery of the new species Olinguito got me thinking: what's the closest we've come to a letters selection where OLINGUITO was available, had it been a valid word at the time?
Round 6 here is 2 letters out. If I may be Graeme for a moment.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:08 pm
by Graeme Cole
Clive Brooker wrote:It's interesting that despite all the training support available to modern players, Julian still seems to be the letters king. How different would the picture be if all games are taken into account?
Graeme Cole wrote:Up to the end of series 68, 418 people have a perfect record in all the numbers rounds they ever played on the show. Of those, Graham Dugdale played the most numbers rounds, scoring 90 out of 90 on numbers in his three games.
Has anyone progressed further through a run before dropping his/her first points in a numbers round?
Jack Worsley maxed his first 18 numbers rounds. He got as far as his 7th game before missing one. That's the most successive numbers rounds maxed by a player from the start of their run. In second place is Richard Campbell who maxed his first 12 numbers rounds. Chris Butler maxed his first 11, and Matthew Francis, Matthew Turner, Paul Howe and Jennifer Bett maxed their first 10.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:16 pm
by Graeme Cole
David Barnard wrote:Not sur eif this has been asked before as I haven't trawled through the numerous questions but do I hold the dubious honour of being the octochamp with the most disallowed words?
No. Dundas Keating holds the record, having had 18 words disallowed in heat games. David Edwards and Peter Zyss had 13. Junaid Mubeen and Stu Horsey had 12, and you and Aaron Webber had 11.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:20 pm
by Graeme Cole
Jack Worsley wrote:You mean LEGATORS, James? ;)

On the subject of misdeclaring length, how many people have offered a word that's more than nine letters long in a letters round? I know of three cases which I'll list below, are there any more?

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_3907
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5488
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5491
Those are the only three.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:37 pm
by Giles
Octochamps with least disallowed words?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:36 pm
by Eoin Monaghan
Giles wrote:Octochamps with least disallowed words?
I don't think Julian Fell had any. Dylan only had one.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:59 pm
by Andy Platt
Must be loads on zero. I had one in the 8 prelims and two in the finals

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:28 pm
by Innis Carson
Kirk didn't have anything disallowed in his octorun either (well, not counting HEDARIM). There could be quite a few more too, it's something pretty much anyone could have achieved.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:07 pm
by Gavin Chipper
What's the least Darrenic round that's there's been (with the most words at the max length)? I presume that this also would answer the question of what is the least Darrenic possible round, because it must have come up. (Although things may be complicated by different dictionaries at different times.)

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:25 pm
by Andy Platt
I had a round on Apterous that had around 35 sevens and no eights. That has a shot at being the least darrenic round possible. I'm trying to find it now, all I remember is who I was playing at the time.

Edit: Can't find it, my opponent was Marcus and I've been back as far as September 2011 in our H2H.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:35 pm
by Thomas Carey
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_80 Round 2, because old dictionary didn't have ERRATICS.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:52 pm
by Graeme Cole
Giles wrote:Octochamps with least disallowed words?
I wondered why you asked that... :-D

Six 15-round octochamps had no words disallowed in their heats: Tom Hargreaves, Julian Fell, Richard Brittain, Michael Macdonald-Cooper, Kirk Bevins and you.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:18 am
by Jon Corby
Graeme Cole wrote:
Giles wrote:Octochamps with least disallowed words?
I wondered why you asked that... :-D

Six 15-round octochamps had no words disallowed in their heats: Tom Hargreaves, Julian Fell, Richard Brittain, Michael Macdonald-Cooper, Kirk Bevins and you.
lol

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:44 pm
by Tom
Apologies if this has been asked before, but has any Octochamp and series finalist (regardless of whether they won or lost the final) got all 11 conundrums out of 11 or in the case of the 9 round format, 12 out of 12?

From memory in my series, I think Chris Wills got 10 conundrums out of 11 so if no-one has done a clean sweep, surely Chris must hold the record for this (or very few others would share it?)

TH

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:39 am
by Graeme Cole
Tom wrote:Apologies if this has been asked before, but has any Octochamp and series finalist (regardless of whether they won or lost the final) got all 11 conundrums out of 11 or in the case of the 9 round format, 12 out of 12?

From memory in my series, I think Chris Wills got 10 conundrums out of 11 so if no-one has done a clean sweep, surely Chris must hold the record for this (or very few others would share it?)

TH
No series finalist has ever solved all their conundrums up to that point.

Darryl Francis got 10 out of 12. Harvey Freeman got at least 10 out of 12. Chris Wills, Julian Fell and Mark Tournoff got 10 out of 11.

Note that we don't have any details of Harvey Freeman's semi-final other than the final score. So he might have got 11 out of 12.

Incidentally, does anyone know how sure we can be that the picture of TRAGEDIAN is from that game? The caption says it was one of Harvey Freeman's words, and certainly Harvey Freeman didn't offer TRAGEDIAN in any of his other games. However, the image page itself says it was one of Allan Saldanha's words. Then again, that page and the episode page can't even agree on whether it's Cathy Hytner or Karen Loughlin. We've got details of all Allan Saldanha's games, and a quick query of my database tells me that TRAGEDIAN is only recorded as being offered in one game, which didn't involve Allan Saldanha, so it's definitely not him. So I'm prepared to believe that that picture is from the missing semi-final, I'm just curious about how we know that.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:28 am
by Heather Styles
I have a hunch that the Series 67 finals are the closest series finals on record. Is there any chance that this half-baked theory could be run through the askgraeme-o-meter?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:38 am
by Matt Morrison
Graeme, this thread is not called "Graeme Asks" - pipe down.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:08 pm
by James Robinson
Graeme Cole wrote:Incidentally, does anyone know how sure we can be that the picture of TRAGEDIAN is from that game? The caption says it was one of Harvey Freeman's words, and certainly Harvey Freeman didn't offer TRAGEDIAN in any of his other games.
Go to 5:53 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EpZpoxPCoI

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:06 pm
by Graeme Cole
Heather Styles wrote:I have a hunch that the Series 67 finals are the closest series finals on record. Is there any chance that this half-baked theory could be run through the askgraeme-o-meter?
I'm taking this as the sum of all the winning margins in the finals. Where a game went to a tiebreak I've taken the margin as zero rather than ten.

By this reckoning, series 67 is the tenth most closely fought 15-round finals. Series 53 was the closest.

Code: Select all

    SERIES   TOTAL MARGIN IN QFs ONWARDS
        53       82
        51      105
        46      116
        56      123
        66      127
        55      153
        50      163
        47      172
        57      178
        67      184
        58      188
        60      190
        59      210
        54      223
        52      228
        48      231
        61      235
        65      238
        62      241
        49      254
        63      265
        64      270
        68      271
Suppose we look at "closeness" a different way, and define it as the largest difference between the two players' scores at any point in the game. If we do it this way, series 67 is still tenth. However, the two semi-finals in that series were the closest semi-finals in 15-round history. Paul James and Rose Boyle were never more than eight points apart, and you and David Barnard were never more than 10 apart. Only one other semi-final equals this: Kirk Bevins v Neil Zussman.

Re: Matt Whinges

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:07 pm
by Graeme Cole
Matt Morrison wrote:Graeme, this thread is not called "Graeme Asks" - pipe down.
FTFY. :-D

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:30 pm
by Heather Styles
Thanks, Graeme. Is there any limit to your awesomeness? (This is a rhetorical question, not a proper Ask Graeme? question.)

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:16 am
by Johnny Canuck
Shouldn't this thread be called "Ask Graeme!", with an exclamation mark? It's an imperative -- we're commanding people to ask Graeme questions.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:29 pm
by Graeme Cole
Johnny Canuck wrote:Shouldn't this thread be called "Ask Graeme!", with an exclamation mark? It's an imperative -- we're commanding people to ask Graeme questions.
Don't know. Ask Ryan?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:18 pm
by Dave Preece
Hi Graeme, have you got an answer to my last question please ;-)

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:29 am
by Graeme Cole
Dave Preece wrote:Could you do the same stats for all xicounts please if possible?

Also, please could you do the same for all 9 round octochamps and xicounts!

Would make intereting reading, especially if afterwards, all stats could be leveled out in one???

Hope you can Graeme!

;-)
I don't think it makes sense to put 9 round octochamps next to 15 round octochamps in a table showing the number of points dropped, because of the difference in the number of rounds played. 9 round octochamps are more difficult anyway, as I need to pay special attention to what rounds we do and don't have complete information for.

15-round xicounts is doable, though.

Code: Select all

                       LETTERS        MAX     NUMBERS         MAX        CONS          MAX        TOTAL         MAX    DROPPED
Jack Hurst                 871        949         315         318          90          110         1276        1377        101
Craig Beevers              851        914         315         330          70          110         1236        1354        118     
Edward McCullagh           841        921         309         325          80          110         1230        1356        126     
Julian Fell                939       1012         268         324         100          110         1307        1446        139     
Kirk Bevins                855        951         305         330          80          110         1240        1391        151     
Giles Hutchings            793        898         392         425          90          110         1275        1433        158     
Chris Davies               853        949         276         330          90          110         1219        1389        170     
Conor Travers              860        965         269         324          90          110         1219        1399        180     
David O'Donnell            800        916         288         324          70          110         1158        1350        192     
Stewart Holden             845        958         242         324          90          110         1177        1392        215     
Oliver Garner              793        919         294         327          50          110         1137        1356        219     
Chris Cummins              789        984         305         314          90          110         1184        1408        224     
Graeme Cole                781        922         296         321          40          110         1117        1353        236     
Chris Wills                809       1024         304         330         100          110         1213        1464        251     
Mark Tournoff              760        959         267         324         100          110         1127        1393        266     
Paul James                 781        933         247         330          70          110         1098        1373        275     
Junaid Mubeen              713        950         295         324          90          110         1098        1384        286     
Jack Worsley               716        942         308         327          40          110         1064        1379        315     
John Mayhew                789        960         204         327          80          110         1073        1397        324     
Richard Brittain           783        988         289         330          30          110         1102        1428        326     
John Davies                721        980         285         330          60          110         1066        1420        354     
Nick Wainwright            698        979         278         330          50          110         1026        1419        393

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:45 am
by Dave Preece
Thanks Graeme, but just for kicks, can you do 9 rounders - please?

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:00 am
by Dave Preece
What is the average gap between octochamps is all series?

It does seen when one ends its about 3 or 4 or 5 and then another one begins, this may some how prove the heats are seeded... As we know they are...

Also, can the same thing be done for 7 wins, 6 wins, 5 wins, 4 wins etc etc, to prove this in more depth???

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:04 am
by Graeme Cole
Dave Preece wrote:What is the average gap between octochamps is all series?

It does seen when one ends its about 3 or 4 or 5 and then another one begins, this may some how prove the heats are seeded... As we know they are...
Sometimes it is a short time between one octochamp ending and another starting. Indeed, on eleven occasions in Countdown history, there have been back-to-back octochamps. But is this evidence of deliberate seeding? Or is there perhaps some confirmation bias at work here?

We'll measure the "gap" as the number of prelims between one octochamp's debut and the next octochamp's debut. So for back-to-back octochamps, the gap is 8. We're considering prelims up to the end of series 68, which means Glen Webb doesn't get counted.

The average gap between octochamps across all series is 29.3, which means that on average, a new octochamp debuts 21.3 days (about four weeks' worth of shows) after the last one finished.

"But wait," says a hypothetical tinfoil hat man. "You're counting the early series, and octochamps were much rarer then. What if we just look at the last five years?"

Okey dokey. Average gap since the start of 2008 is 19.6 days. So just over a fortnight between one octochamp finishing and the next one starting.

"Did I say five years? I meant four. Can we look at games since 2009?"

Average is 18.3 days.

"Er, I mean 2010."

19.9.

"Since 2011?"

17.8.

"Since 2012, then. There were loads of octochamps in 2012."

16.3.

If it were "3 or 4 or 5" days, we'd be seeing numbers between 11 and 13. And we aren't.

But wait. Tinfoil hat man might then point out that in 2013, in series 68, there were five octochamps including carry-over champion Glen Webb, and they're all pretty close to each other. Indeed, the average gap between octochamps in that (unusually short) series is 11.25, if we include Glen Webb. (However, after Glen there were 21 games not featuring an octochamp before the next one.) But the story these statistics doesn't tell is that if, say, Joe McGonigle had been on a couple of weeks earlier and had played Eileen Taylor, one of them wouldn't have become an octochamp. However, by moving Joe back a couple of weeks, Joe's eight opponents avoid him, and one of those might have won eight.

If the running order were put together arbitrarily without seeding, we'd get strong players meeting each other in the heats, and we do. Because we're only looking at octochamps in the analysis above, what we don't see is potential octochamps - people who had a good chance of winning eight but came up against another strong player. Zarte won five games, smashing the record aggregate score for a five-time winner, and then met Dylan. If I were given the task of "seeding" the heats, I definitely wouldn't have put those two within eight games of each other. Going back a bit further, Sohail Virdi, Rachael Moran, Philip Jarvis and Sam McElhinney were all good enough to become octochamps, and three of them regularly play or played on apterous, but they ended up playing each other and then Sam lost to Andy Platt. In series 66, promising numberist Chris Butler won three and was beaten in a close game by Peter Lee. In series 65, Matt Croy met Drew Halliburton in a game which still shares the joint record for the most combined maxes in a prelim (12-11), along with Zarte and Dylan's game. Later on, Phyl Styles won six games and was beaten by Jack Worsley, narrowly missing out on a place in the finals. Further back... Michelle Nevitt met Andy McGurn, and Dave Dyer got an 11-maxer the day before he played Ed McCullagh. Had the running order been slightly different, any of these could have been in the octochamp list and we'd be picking over the number of days between them and the next one.

It's easy, too, to fall into the trap of thinking that the best two, or best three, players in a series never meet in the heats. This is often because we form our idea of who are the top two based on the seeding table, and of course the top two seeds aren't going to meet in the heats, otherwise they won't both be octochamps and therefore almost certainly won't end up being the top two seeds. By the end of series 65, Matt Croy was at about the same level as me (he was keeping score against me in my quarter-final - the conundrum would have been crucial and he got it at the same time as I did), yet he didn't make the finals. Dan McColm lost his first game against Ned Pendleton in series 64. He wasn't a bad player then, and has improved hugely since. Who's to say he wouldn't have been at Ed and Adam's standard come the finals?

Even if the best players were deliberately kept apart in the heats, I don't think it could be shown just by looking at the start dates of octochamps. I don't think it could be disproved, either - proving a negative is a tricky thing. So are (or were) the heats seeded to some small extent? Maybe. I can't disprove it. But looking at the gaps between octochamps isn't going to help decide.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:05 am
by Andy Platt
Cool post. In my opinion, 4 of the 8 best players didn't even make finals in Series 68. Although I guess Rachael was for personal reasons.

Phil J was unlucky, and Alex Newton (my 6th prelim) and Alan Flanagan (Giles's 6th prelim) were arguably (well, I'm telling you) better players than Eileen and Joe.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:29 am
by Charlie Reams
Also there's probably some sort of incumbent advantage, which would tend to make back-to-back octochamps more likely. Seems like it'd be quite hard to distinguish the two effects.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:07 pm
by Dave Preece
Thanks Graeme, in depth as ever, good stuff!!!

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:23 pm
by David Williams
Can someone just remind whether we think seeding is a good thing or not, and whether we think it happens or not.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:49 pm
by Mark Deeks
Graeme Cole wrote:
Dave Preece wrote:What is the average gap between octochamps is all series?

It does seen when one ends its about 3 or 4 or 5 and then another one begins, this may some how prove the heats are seeded... As we know they are...
Sometimes it is a short time between one octochamp ending and another starting. Indeed, on eleven occasions in Countdown history, there have been back-to-back octochamps. But is this evidence of deliberate seeding? Or is there perhaps some confirmation bias at work here?

We'll measure the "gap" as the number of prelims between one octochamp's debut and the next octochamp's debut. So for back-to-back octochamps, the gap is 8. We're considering prelims up to the end of series 68, which means Glen Webb doesn't get counted.

The average gap between octochamps across all series is 29.3, which means that on average, a new octochamp debuts 21.3 days (about four weeks' worth of shows) after the last one finished.

"But wait," says a hypothetical tinfoil hat man. "You're counting the early series, and octochamps were much rarer then. What if we just look at the last five years?"

Okey dokey. Average gap since the start of 2008 is 19.6 days. So just over a fortnight between one octochamp finishing and the next one starting.

"Did I say five years? I meant four. Can we look at games since 2009?"

Average is 18.3 days.

"Er, I mean 2010."

19.9.

"Since 2011?"

17.8.

"Since 2012, then. There were loads of octochamps in 2012."

16.3.

If it were "3 or 4 or 5" days, we'd be seeing numbers between 11 and 13. And we aren't.

But wait. Tinfoil hat man might then point out that in 2013, in series 68, there were five octochamps including carry-over champion Glen Webb, and they're all pretty close to each other. Indeed, the average gap between octochamps in that (unusually short) series is 11.25, if we include Glen Webb. (However, after Glen there were 21 games not featuring an octochamp before the next one.) But the story these statistics doesn't tell is that if, say, Joe McGonigle had been on a couple of weeks earlier and had played Eileen Taylor, one of them wouldn't have become an octochamp. However, by moving Joe back a couple of weeks, Joe's eight opponents avoid him, and one of those might have won eight.

If the running order were put together arbitrarily without seeding, we'd get strong players meeting each other in the heats, and we do. Because we're only looking at octochamps in the analysis above, what we don't see is potential octochamps - people who had a good chance of winning eight but came up against another strong player. Zarte won five games, smashing the record aggregate score for a five-time winner, and then met Dylan. If I were given the task of "seeding" the heats, I definitely wouldn't have put those two within eight games of each other. Going back a bit further, Sohail Virdi, Rachael Moran, Philip Jarvis and Sam McElhinney were all good enough to become octochamps, and three of them regularly play or played on apterous, but they ended up playing each other and then Sam lost to Andy Platt. In series 66, promising numberist Chris Butler won three and was beaten in a close game by Peter Lee. In series 65, Matt Croy met Drew Halliburton in a game which still shares the joint record for the most combined maxes in a prelim (12-11), along with Zarte and Dylan's game. Later on, Phyl Styles won six games and was beaten by Jack Worsley, narrowly missing out on a place in the finals. Further back... Michelle Nevitt met Andy McGurn, and Dave Dyer got an 11-maxer the day before he played Ed McCullagh. Had the running order been slightly different, any of these could have been in the octochamp list and we'd be picking over the number of days between them and the next one.

It's easy, too, to fall into the trap of thinking that the best two, or best three, players in a series never meet in the heats. This is often because we form our idea of who are the top two based on the seeding table, and of course the top two seeds aren't going to meet in the heats, otherwise they won't both be octochamps and therefore almost certainly won't end up being the top two seeds. By the end of series 65, Matt Croy was at about the same level as me (he was keeping score against me in my quarter-final - the conundrum would have been crucial and he got it at the same time as I did), yet he didn't make the finals. Dan McColm lost his first game against Ned Pendleton in series 64. He wasn't a bad player then, and has improved hugely since. Who's to say he wouldn't have been at Ed and Adam's standard come the finals?

Even if the best players were deliberately kept apart in the heats, I don't think it could be shown just by looking at the start dates of octochamps. I don't think it could be disproved, either - proving a negative is a tricky thing. So are (or were) the heats seeded to some small extent? Maybe. I can't disprove it. But looking at the gaps between octochamps isn't going to help decide.
Jon Elmer would have Octoed in our series too. As I'm sure would have Graham Mooney-Dalton and Liam Herringshaw. We'll never know for sure, but it seems very likely.

Re: Ask Graeme?

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:27 pm
by James S Roper
Sorry if it's unanswerable from your database or if it's already been answered - who's the oldest contestant to ever go on the show?