c4countdown

james doohan wrote:http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1075166

Interesting theory from Souness as to why England are under performing at 6:50 in, lasts about ten minutes, have to say it makes a lot of sense to me as the players almost seemed unfit against Algeria, if he is right its very bad news for Englands world cup

Not allowed to watch from England - can you summarise? I'm guessing you might well be referring to overtraining or something?

Interesting alright. He's basically saying that in Mexico in 86 he suffered because of the altitude. He was referring to the preparations alright, but was saying that there's like a 4 week period, of which they are just nearing the climax (since they went to Rustenburg), during which the body becomes more run down due to the oxygen deficit. He said that after a month of it he was flying, but reckons they're gonna be at their lowest on Wednesday.

Thanks for that Andy. So the England team basically flew out 3 weeks late. I like the theory but you'd hope the FA would have brought on board a sports scientist who is at the very least as qualified as Souness. If not, very poor preparation indeed.

Matt Morrison wrote:

james doohan wrote:http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1075166

Interesting theory from Souness as to why England are under performing at 6:50 in, lasts about ten minutes, have to say it makes a lot of sense to me as the players almost seemed unfit against Algeria, if he is right its very bad news for Englands world cup

Not allowed to watch from England - can you summarise? I'm guessing you might well be referring to overtraining or something?[/quote

http://www.redcafe.net/f60/graeme-soune ... te-299531/

He also mentioned that the body struggles to produce enough EPO at altitude and made a vague reference to some kind of inside information he had from the England camp. He also mentioned that the English players are second to the ball in every position which was plain to see to everyone.

He seems to have a good knowledge of the medical side of the situation too and his theory certainly made sense to me

Matt Morrison wrote:Thanks for that Andy. So the England team basically flew out 3 weeks late. I like the theory but you'd hope the FA would have brought on board a sports scientist who is at the very least as qualified as Souness. If not, very poor preparation indeed.

He was saying that he couldn't believe that England had done this and mentioned the US preparations which has involved zero work at altitude. I thought they looked really fit towards the end of their game v Slovenia too. Very interesting stuff

Just watching Brazil against Ivory Coast. Lawro is a real piece of shit commentator, totally useless points of view, thinks he's funny but he's not, he's just a grumpy prick.

Jon O'Neill wrote:Just watching Brazil against Ivory Coast. Lawro is a real piece of shit commentator, totally useless points of view, thinks he's funny but he's not, he's just a grumpy prick.

Hahaha. He's absolutely hilarious.

JP: "HD shot there, Mark."
ML: "[sarcastically] Yeah, right... [massive pause]... Usually Dull you mean?"

Absolutely amazing. I can't tell you how many times I've already meant to start a separate thread on commentary highlights and not got round to it. Will try and remember to leave more fragments in here.

Matt Morrison wrote:

Jon O'Neill wrote:Just watching Brazil against Ivory Coast. Lawro is a real piece of shit commentator, totally useless points of view, thinks he's funny but he's not, he's just a grumpy prick.

Hahaha. He's absolutely hilarious.

JP: "HD shot there, Mark."
ML: "[sarcastically] Yeah, right... [massive pause]... Usually Dull you mean?"

Absolutely amazing. I can't tell you how many times I've already meant to start a separate thread on commentary highlights and not got round to it. Will try and remember to leave more fragments in here.

Here are a few more of my favourites, as much as I can remember anyway.

[Elano shows his shin pads with the names of his kids on]
ML: "That's an extra few quid".

[Crowd doing a Mexican Wave]
ML: "That's for 30 years ago... you're watching Brazil play. Muppets."

Various tired old shit about Eriksson being terrible. You fucking try at management then, you prick. No? Exactly.

Football's coming home.
I've moved to Rio.

Kaita is a disgrace. He should be banned. Kaka never intentionally hurt him and CERTAINLY never hit his face. What a shocker, the referee wasn't even looking at the incident. Now one of the top players of the tournament is suspended. It's a joke. And to be honest, this hasn't been a great World Cup so far.

Absolutely brilliant to see the French team capitulating.

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Kaita is a disgrace. He should be banned. Kaka never intentionally hurt him and CERTAINLY never hit his face. What a shocker, the referee wasn't even looking at the incident. Now one of the top players of the tournament is suspended. It's a joke. And to be honest, this hasn't been a great World Cup so far.

Absolutely brilliant to see the French team capitulating.

No mention of Fabiano's Henry like skills for the second goal.

A lot of the commentators are dreadful. I'd much rather just listen to the vuvuzelas. The playacting has also been horrendous throughout.

Marc Meakin wrote:

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Kaita is a disgrace. He should be banned. Kaka never intentionally hurt him and CERTAINLY never hit his face. What a shocker, the referee wasn't even looking at the incident. Now one of the top players of the tournament is suspended. It's a joke. And to be honest, this hasn't been a great World Cup so far.

Absolutely brilliant to see the French team capitulating.

No mention of Fabiano's Henry like skills for the second goal.

And two shocking tackles as well, referee was absolutely dire, hopefully he'll get his marching orders too

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Kaita is a disgrace. He should be banned. Kaka never intentionally hurt him and CERTAINLY never hit his face. What a shocker, the referee wasn't even looking at the incident. Now one of the top players of the tournament is suspended. It's a joke. And to be honest, this hasn't been a great World Cup so far.

My perception, which none of the commentators considered, was that Kaita was caught in the face by Kaka's shoulder (entirely accidentally), but since he was looking away, he assumed he'd been deliberately elbowed in the face. Of course he made the most of it, but if you think you've been elbowed in the face, you're pretty entitled to do that. Will be interesting to see what both players say afterwards.

I've no idea what's got on Lawro's tits - the Brazil v Ivory Coast match was easily one of the more entertaining games of the tournament. A shame he had to find so much to moan about, and his slating of Sven seemed particularly odd.

Kaita was pitiful in getting Kaka sent off, but that's a little payback for Rivaldo's theatrics eight years ago. Not to mention the juggling skills of Fabiano ("No ref - no use of the upper arm at all...").

As for England, the altitude theory likely has some weight to it. I personally feel the bulk of the team are a spent force after a gruelling domestic campaign. The Premier League is played at a ridiculous tempo, and when you factor in persistent injuries/niggles it's not hard to see why most of the team have nothing in the tank. Ditto for France, who have a strong Prem contingent in their side. As the English game relies heavily on high-tempo pressing and effort, and maximising set-piece opportunities (which we seem incapable of with this new ball) - I'm fearful. The warning signs were there against Mexico and Japan.

An additional point of note: Heskey and SWP are fresher than most of the starting XI having dropped out of their club sides - which could be why Capello's favouring them. I fully expect Joe Cole to start on Wed though, probably for Heskey.

Matt Morrison wrote:

Jon O'Neill wrote:Just watching Brazil against Ivory Coast. Lawro is a real piece of shit commentator, totally useless points of view, thinks he's funny but he's not, he's just a grumpy prick.

Hahaha. He's absolutely hilarious.

JP: "HD shot there, Mark."
ML: "[sarcastically] Yeah, right... [massive pause]... Usually Dull you mean?"

Absolutely amazing. I can't tell you how many times I've already meant to start a separate thread on commentary highlights and not got round to it. Will try and remember to leave more fragments in here.

One I chuckled at tonight from Lawro.

Elano(?) has just scored and celebrates by showing his shinpads with his kids names on them.
Lawro: "Good job he doesn't have 3 kids."

Charlie Reams wrote: My perception, which none of the commentators considered, was that Kaita was caught in the face by Kaka's shoulder (entirely accidentally), but since he was looking away, he assumed he'd been deliberately elbowed in the face. Of course he made the most of it, but if you think you've been elbowed in the face, you're pretty entitled to do that. Will be interesting to see what both players say afterwards.

Didn't agree with him getting caught in the face, but just checked the replays and looks like there was a shade of contact alright and he was looking the other way. Still disgraceful. Bring on the video ref. It's the only way this cancer of football will be beaten. Every incident like last night's makes me like football a little bit less. Bunch of overpaid cheating pussies.

I'd also need to see the replays again, but yeah the thing I noticed from the replays at the time were that you could see Keita look towards "who have I just run into?" immediately after the collision, and it really looked to me like he only raised his hands to his face once he'd noticed and processed that it was Kaká, who was obviously on a yellow card.

Lúcio was being more of a dramatic cunt than anyone last night though, I hate the theatrics.

Matt Morrison wrote:Lúcio was being more of a dramatic cunt than anyone last night though, I hate the theatrics.

I found some of the Brazilian theatrics near the end utterly retarded. you're 3-1 up with 5 minutes to go, do you really need to mess around pretending to be injured (same applies to Cote D'Ivoire, really - getting Kaka sent off probably helps Portugal more than them - 5 minutes with an extra man against having him suspended in the game against your main group rivals? Nice one). Reminded me of that German dude getting booked, really late on, for diving, when they were 4-0 up, on the half-way line.

Hadn't thought of that... good point!

Michael Wallace wrote:

Matt Morrison wrote:Lúcio was being more of a dramatic cunt than anyone last night though, I hate the theatrics.

I found some of the Brazilian theatrics near the end utterly retarded. you're 3-1 up with 5 minutes to go, do you really need to mess around pretending to be injured (same applies to Cote D'Ivoire, really - getting Kaka sent off probably helps Portugal more than them - 5 minutes with an extra man against having him suspended in the game against your main group rivals? Nice one). Reminded me of that German dude getting booked, really late on, for diving, when they were 4-0 up, on the half-way line.

Plus, with Brazil already qualified, they now have even more incentive to give the Portugese an easy ride, What are the odds now on that match ending in a scoreless draw?(provided Portugal beat North Korea today)
P.S. Nice to see the French imploding so spectacularly

Liam Tiernan wrote:Plus, with Brazil already qualified, they now have even more incentive to give the Portugese an easy ride, What are the odds now on that match ending in a scoreless draw?(provided Portugal beat North Korea today)

6/1, apparently (although obviously this is before we know the result today). Tbh if there's going to be any incentive (for Brazil) it's going to be to lose - if Spain look set to finish 2nd in their group who's going to want that over Switzerland?

About time we got a few goals!

Great Portugese performance and a shocker from the Koreans, quite different to their one against Brazil.

Eoin Monaghan wrote:About time we got a few goals!

Great Portugese performance and a shocker from the Koreans, quite different to their one against Brazil.

It would be interesting if both Portugal and Brazil will be trying to lose on friday in order to avoid Spain (who will probably finish second in their group)

Marc Meakin wrote:It would be interesting if both Portugal and Brazil will be trying to lose on friday in order to avoid Spain (who will probably finish second in their group)

Not if Honduras have anything to say about it!

On the RTE highlights show last night, Con Murphy and Richie Sadlier mentioned that they'd be showing the French game live tomorrow, then began to justify showing the game with possibly the groups 3rd and 4th finishers by saying that they thought the other game would probably be played out as a boring draw, afraid to admit that they're showing the French because this is probably the last game in the tournament that this whole country wants to see! I've always thought of us as a spiteful nation, with people tending to be bitter about other people's successes and take pleasure in their failures. I get the feeling that we won't be fully satisfied unless we see a bust up/walk off mid game today!

PS - didn't Ribery get let off his statutory rape charge until after the world cup, given it was so fast approaching? Interesting to see how the authorities come down on him now!

Andy Wilson wrote:PS - didn't Ribery get let off his statutory rape charge until after the world cup

Wot - so they could pin screwing the whole country on him?

Ribery has a face only his mother could love, so I imagine it's all statutory rape to him. Or incest, I guess, if the saying holds true.

Why does Domenech leave his best players on the bench. He's leaving at the end of it all, why try and show authority. Although they are going to go out now which is brilliant. The joys of karma!

Get in! Come on South Africa and Mexico!

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Get in! Come on South Africa and Uruguay!

FYP! Only another two-goal swing needed to get SA through!

Was that first goal by South Africa hand ball.
And totally unrelated Henry is about to come on.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It looks like Mexico will be playing Argentina, just like 2006. Hopefully it's decided by as good as a goal as Maxi Rodriguez scored.

Domenech wouldn't even shake Carlos Alberto's hand at the end of the game. An ugly end to an ugly world cup campaign at the end of a pretty funny reign as French manager. France also exited euro 2008 bottom of the group, on one point! So that's two in a row for Domenech as manager and apparantly, the only reason they did so well in 2006 under his stewardship was because Zidane pretty much took over the team. In his post match interview after the last game against Italy (in euro 2008, just after they'd been dumped out), Domenech dodged a question on his future by proposing to his TV presenter girlfriend live on air! Nutcase.

Felt sorry for South Africa but it was too little too late from them.

I am glad Greece are out. They were going for the draw from the start and made very few attacks, even when they had to score. Awful to watch.

Eoin Monaghan wrote:I am glad Greece are out. They were going for the draw from the start and made very few attacks, even when they had to score. Awful to watch.

Commentators are such wanky shitbags. They spitefully picked apart Greece's performance from start to finish: "Greece really aren't doing anything at all" "All the players are extremely poor" (well yes they are in a bit of a financial crisis). I almost choked on my tzatziki and smashed all my plates. And now Eoin jumps on the Greece-bashing bandwagon. I thought you were cool

Dinos Sfyris wrote:

Eoin Monaghan wrote:I am glad Greece are out. They were going for the draw from the start and made very few attacks, even when they had to score. Awful to watch.

Commentators are such wanky shitbags. They spitefully picked apart Greece's performance from start to finish: "Greece really aren't doing anything at all" "All the players are extremely poor" (well yes they are in a bit of a financial crisis). I almost choked on my tzatziki and smashed all my plates. And now Eoin jumps on the Greece-bashing bandwagon. I thought you were cool

I understand why Greece adopted those tactics until Argentina scored, then they maybe should have thrown caution to the wind.
FWIW Argentina were just as dour in the first half.
Bad luck Greece.
C'mon England.

ENGLAND 1 - SLOVENIA 0

Thank god for Jermain Defoe...... for once.

Don't blow it now.

Come on USA!

England will now (hopefully) be facing Germany in the next round) and if it is anything unlike my performance in the Apterous World Cup, they might lose.

Dinos Sfyris wrote:

Eoin Monaghan wrote:I am glad Greece are out. They were going for the draw from the start and made very few attacks, even when they had to score. Awful to watch.

Commentators are such wanky shitbags. They spitefully picked apart Greece's performance from start to finish: "Greece really aren't doing anything at all" "All the players are extremely poor" (well yes they are in a bit of a financial crisis). I almost choked on my tzatziki and smashed all my plates. And now Eoin jumps on the Greece-bashing bandwagon. I thought you were cool

I don't particularly like the commentators either, they are quite negative, it was just that Greece played for the draw. They had to win that game, yet they barely attacked and seemed more intent on making Messi look bad. (Which they failed.)

Eoin Monaghan wrote:

Dinos Sfyris wrote:

Eoin Monaghan wrote:I am glad Greece are out. They were going for the draw from the start and made very few attacks, even when they had to score. Awful to watch.

Commentators are such wanky shitbags. They spitefully picked apart Greece's performance from start to finish: "Greece really aren't doing anything at all" "All the players are extremely poor" (well yes they are in a bit of a financial crisis). I almost choked on my tzatziki and smashed all my plates. And now Eoin jumps on the Greece-bashing bandwagon. I thought you were cool

I don't particularly like the commentators either, they are quite negative, it was just that Greece played for the draw. They had to win that game, yet they barely attacked and seemed more intent on making Messi look bad. (Which they failed.)

I wouldn't say Greece were intent on making Messi look bad. Messi is constantly talked up to be one of the best players in the world at the moment and definitely the best striker, did you expect Greece just to give him free reign? Messi was man marked, he didn't have 3 players constantly surrounding him, just 1 player (who in my opinion played superbly) trying to stop his effectiveness. Also, like Alan Shearer pointed out, this is how Greeece play, if they had of tried to take Argentina on they probably would have been smashed. A draw would have been good had Nigeria not missed so many chances, Greece, as ugly as their play is/was, played the right game in the circumstances (until the last 10 mins)

On another note, England were quite decent today, played some nice football. I just wish USA hadn't scored because regardless of who we have in the last 16, if we win it looks like Argentina in the quarters.

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Come on USA!

England will now (hopefully) be facing Germany in the next round) and if it is anything unlike my performance in the Apterous World Cup, they might lose.

Germany to go out tonight.
You heard it here first.
Oh and Mexico to beat Argentina on penalties.

craig wrote:England were quite decent today

Really? I thought they were fairly poor against one of the worst teams I have ever seen in a World Cup. This is not the England team that roared through qualifying

Marc Meakin wrote:Germany to go out tonight.
You heard it here first.

Tbh, it's not the most unlikely thing that could happen, it only needs a draw from Ghana (in fact, they're only 3.75 to go out on PaddyPower).

Michael Wallace wrote:

Marc Meakin wrote:Germany to go out tonight.
You heard it here first.

Tbh, it's not the most unlikely thing that could happen, it only needs a draw from Ghana (in fact, they're only 3.75 to go out on PaddyPower).

Go Ghana (not you Oliver).

craig wrote:I just wish USA hadn't scored because regardless of who we have in the last 16, if we win it looks like Argentina in the quarters.

Sure you'll have to play the best to win the thing. Looks like we're gonna lose either Brazil or Spain in the last 16 too.

Fun fact I just ploughed through Wikipedia for.

England qualified for the last 16 having scored only 2 goals. Since 1982 a team has finished in the top 2 of a qualification group having scored only 2 goals 7 times. The Italians once, Northern Ireland once, the Republic of Ireland twice, and England three times. Gotta love British Isles football.

Why are they acting like Lahm on the line was an obvious red card? It was nothing like Kewell's.

And why has he just said "if it's not deliberate, it's not handball"?

You should at least learn the rules of the game you're commentating on - it should be the law.

Jon O'Neill wrote:And why has he just said "if it's not deliberate, it's not handball"?

Page 111 of the Laws of the Game:

"Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm."

Or have I missed something?

Michael Wallace wrote:

Jon O'Neill wrote:And why has he just said "if it's not deliberate, it's not handball"?

Page 111 of the Laws of the Game:

"Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm."

Or have I missed something?

Okay, but the way the law is enforced is that if your arm is stretched out, whether it's deliberate or not, it's handball.

I suspect there'll a lot of people trying to find a Ghanaian grand-parent and get a gig as a striker. They couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo against Germany. Should have stuck 3-4 past them.

Craig Beevers wrote:I suspect there'll a lot of people trying to find a Ghanaian grand-parent and get a gig as a striker. They couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo against Germany. Should have stuck 3-4 past them.

Hopefully we can do better (please god Rooney and Lampard can find their goalscoring form).

England now enter the nemesis stage of the world cup.
In order to win it we will have to play all the teams that usually knock us out of big tournaments.
Germany (1970,1990 1996), followed by Argentina(1986 1998),Portugal (2000, 2004 and 2006) and finally Brazil (2002) in the final.

Italy v Slovakia best match so far.
Also best goal (Italy's second)
And best refereeing/linesmanning?

Marc Meakin wrote:England now enter the nemesis stage of the world cup.
In order to win it we will have to play all the teams that usually knock us out of big tournaments.
Germany (1970,1990 1996), followed by Argentina(1986 1998),Portugal (2000, 2004 and 2006) and finally Brazil (2002) in the final.

Alternative way of looking at it. To get to the final this year, we'll probably have to beat the three teams we beat in 1966 during the knock-out stage - Argentina, Portugal and (West) Germany.

It's a revenge mission from now on. We beat Germany on penalties, argentina with a handball goal, and Portugal after Rooney gets Ronaldo sent off. Just watch.

Portugal 0 Brazil 0
No surprise there then.

Liam Tiernan wrote:Portugal 0 Brazil 0
No surprise there then.

Yeah, I caught the pre-match build up (before switching to CIV, obv), and was a bit surprised how much they were cimping over the prospect of two teams who had nothing to play for and the rest of the tournament to worry about.