Prizes and stuff

[JackHurst]

I recall Richard Whitely saying something like "Countdown Isn't a greed gameshow", and poiting out that most people take part for the love of the game at the start of a special edition show. I guess most fans of the show tend to agree with this. It's nice that all contestants get something for going on.

I thought I'd pose a few questions; some to get discussion going, and some that i just dont know the answer to.

-Whats the difference between a winners and a losers goody bag, and what's in them?
-If you've been on the show, what prizes did you get, and what did you do with them?
-How have the prizes changed through the history of the show?
-Did players who set new high scores ever get special prizes for doing so?
-If not, do you think a player who breaks the 146 record would/should get anything?
-Do you think the lack of big time prizes deters pro quizzers who could do really well on the show from applying?

And on a side note, Ive just reinstalled mozilla firefox and lost my spell check (which will explain any spelling errors in this post), how do i turn it back on?

DISCUSS

[Sue Sanders]

My goody bag as someone who lost her only game (Oct 2005) was:-

Susie Dent's book - I've dipped into it but not read thoroughly.
Countdown alarm clock - ticks away on my bookcase; I don't use it as an alarm clock because I'm all now digital
Countdown board game - Unopened. (As are the other two I got as presents the following Christmas)
DVD - the one with Carol and Des. Have played a few games. Alone. Saddo.
Polo shirt - When I read that Jon C was after one I looked mine out to see if he would like it. Can't find it. Have a horrible suspicion I've thrown it out. Dumb arse.
Countdown mug - used daily until Dad broke it about a year ago.
My lovely big, fat copy of the ODE. Use it most days for Countdown. Love it, worth the whole unnerving experience!

My spell check has also stopped working - and thinking about it...probably linked to installing Firefox. So... ditto.

[Ben Wilson]

-Whats the difference between a winners and a losers goody bag, and what's in them?

The teapot, mainly. Dunno if winners still get the 2-volume SOED instead of the OED.

-If you've been on the show, what prizes did you get, and what did you do with them?

Still got most of them. Here we go (from November 2001)- Teapot, mug, huge noteblock I'm still not 1/2 of the way through, coaster, puzzle book, electronic game, NODE, polo shirt.

-How have the prizes changed through the history of the show?

Vastly.

-Did players who set new high scores ever get special prizes for doing so?

No, but players who score 0 ironically get a teapot.

-If not, do you think a player who breaks the 146 record would/should get anything?

Probably. That's really up to Damo to decide, and raises the question of what they'd be given.

-Do you think the lack of big time prizes deters pro quizzers who could do really well on the show from applying?

Possibly. It also deters serious Scrabblers- well, that and the dictionary differences- which is equally baffling,

[Kirk Bevins]

The teapot, mainly. Dunno if winners still get the 2-volume SOED instead of the OED.

I got an ODE in mine, which of course I wanted but Ryan Taylor got the 2-volume SOED and the losers got the ODE. Seems odd to me but I'm just grateful I got an ODE to practise with. Mind you it's unopened as I'm still wearing out my other one.

-If not, do you think a player who breaks the 146 record would/should get anything?

No, because then Julian will moan that he didn't get anything when he got 138 and then later broke his own record by getting 146. You can't just decide to give prizes out half way through. What you *could* do perhaps was offer an incentive (say £1000) to anyone who accrues 1000 points or more on their octorun. Since this has never been done it would be interesting to see how much practice people put in.

[JackHurst]

No, because then Julian will moan that he didn't get anything when he got 138 and then later broke his own record by getting 146. You can't just decide to give prizes out half way through. What you *could* do perhaps was offer an incentive (say £1000) to anyone who accrues 1000 points or more on their octorun. Since this has never been done it would be interesting to see how much practice people put in.

Thats would be the countdown equivalent of the Wolfskehl prize.

[Ben Wilson]

Seems odd to me but I'm just grateful I got an ODE to practise with. Mind you it's unopened as I'm still wearing out my other one.

Is this the one that arrives at COLIN every year missing both covers and in so many pieces it takes 10 minutes just to get it back in order?

[Gavin Chipper]

You can't just decide to give prizes out half way through.

Yeah you can.

What you *could* do perhaps was offer an incentive (say £1000) to anyone who accrues 1000 points or more on their octorun. Since this has never been done it would be interesting to see how much practice people put in.

Is this realistic though? A lot of players have had octoruns where 1000 hasn't even been possible. You'd need some pretty decent letters to make the max enough over 1000 so that 1000 is remotely achievable.

Conspiracy theorists may suggest that it is no coincidence that Andrew Hulme had such a high max available.

[Kirk Bevins]

Is this realistic though? A lot of players have had octoruns where 1000 hasn't even been possible.

Looking here shows that most octochamps have had more than 1000 points available to them.

[Kirk Bevins]

Is this the one that arrives at COLIN every year missing both covers and in so many pieces it takes 10 minutes just to get it back in order?

Haha that was the old dictionary that I got from my first appearance in 2001. That sadly died a terrible death and I finally discarded it last month. RIP.

[Andy Thomson]

Hmmm...back in 1985, all I got for my losing appearance was the Countdown board game. Which I no longer have.

[Derek Hazell]

Hmmm...back in 1985, all I got for my losing appearance was the Countdown board game. Which I no longer have.

A goody bag with one thing in it? If it was now you'd be made to bring your own bag or carry it home naked! (The game not you)


ps Excellent post, Sue. I never knew a goody bag could be so entertaining without actually owning one.

[Andy Thomson]

No bag at all Derek - in fact I wasn't even given the box to take away with me. It was posted later. I guess TV companies didn't have such tight budgets in thees days and could afford such fripperies as postage.

[D Eadie]

We stopped doing the polo-shirts pretty recently. Wasn't possible to stock all the different sizes so that was that. Those who score 0 don't get a teapot, not sure where that idea came from.
There used to be a prize of a PC for the player with the highest score of the series, but that only lasted for 1 year. Now that it looks like product placement may be allowed on shows, we could consider sponsorship for various prizes throughout the series, who knows.

[Michael Wallace]

Those who score 0 don't get a teapot, not sure where that idea came from.

I have a vague memory of seeing Richard Whiteley say that on a show when someone was doing particularly badly, This would have been when I was fairly young though, so I could understand if I was making it up.

[D Eadie]

Both nought-ees were on before the teapots were introduced. Sylvia Pitman and some chap called John. Tried to get them both back to play each other in a special, but one of them didn't want to come back again. I suspect the old adage of "it gets in the way of my Scrabble preparations" didn't come into effect this time, not that it's ever been an acceptable excuse.

[Marc Meakin]

Are there any more specials being planned?

[Clive Brooker]

I remember this vividly:

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_3607

Perhaps there was something in the way the challenger never gave up or let his head drop. At the end of the game RW said (words to this effect) that someone behind the scenes has taken pity on the challenger and decided to award him a teapot. Maybe it was justified as having "won" a title of sorts. Richard then wagged his finger at the camera, saying (again, words to this effect) "Don't think you can come on here, get nought, and expect a teapot!"

[D Eadie]

Are there any more specials being planned?

Not yet, but probably will be planned late 2009 or early into 2010, with a view to recording them in the Spring. I think we're looking at 4 specials in total, but that's are far as it's got so far.

[JackHurst]

Another point of interest:

I was confused when at the end of the most recent CofC, there was no prize giving ceremony to give steve the throphy. Is the general idea that winning the CofC isnt as a momentous occaision as winning a series? If anything, I'd say its more special. Also, am I right in recalling there was some sort of special item everyone in the last CofC got?

[D Eadie]

People in C of C's get some kind of glassware, though i can't recall exactly what it is. We haven't done a presentation in a C of C final in my time. It's nothing to do with the achievement, it's the lack of dictionaries as a floor showpiece, so it's pointless just standing there with a bit of crystal.

Pretty sure the winner doesn't really care about it. The presentations at the end are always slightly worrying, in that some of the contestants wear any old clothes and don't make much of an effort to look smart, so the fewer the better IMO.

Are you doing some kind of potted history of Countdown prizes or something?

[Matt Morrison]

Ive just reinstalled mozilla firefox and lost my spell check (which will explain any spelling errors in this post), how do i turn it back on?

Here.

[Sue Sanders]

We stopped doing the polo-shirts pretty recently.

Ta. That prompted me to have one more search.

FOUND IT!!!!

[D Eadie]

We stopped doing the polo-shirts pretty recently.

Ta. That prompted me to have one more search.

FOUND IT!!!!

They didn't suit me either.

[Phil Reynolds]

The presentations at the end are always slightly worrying, in that some of the contestants wear any old clothes and don't make much of an effort to look smart, so the fewer the better IMO.

Too right. Bloody students.

[JackHurst]

People in C of C's get some kind of glassware, though i can't recall exactly what it is. We haven't done a presentation in a C of C final in my time. It's nothing to do with the achievement, it's the lack of dictionaries as a floor showpiece, so it's pointless just standing there with a bit of crystal.

Pretty sure the winner doesn't really care about it. The presentations at the end are always slightly worrying, in that some of the contestants wear any old clothes and don't make much of an effort to look smart, so the fewer the better IMO.

Are you doing some kind of potted history of Countdown prizes or something?

Nope. Just curious, as I only started paying propper attention to the show about a year ago.

It was mainly to ask about the spell check thing, tbh.

Ive just reinstalled mozilla firefox and lost my spell check (which will explain any spelling errors in this post), how do i turn it back on?

Here.

Thanks a lot, thats very useful.

[Ian Volante]

In the Deso era for winning I got:

Teapot
2-volume SOED
Polo shirt
Susi's latest book
Alarm clock
Sexual favours from Carol
Board game (used the little clock for a countdown round at a quiz, quite handy)
Mug

A pretty good selection really.

[Tom]

"No, because then Julian will moan that he didn't get anything when he got 138 and then later broke his own record by getting 146. You can't just decide to give prizes out half way through. What you *could* do perhaps was offer an incentive (say £1000) to anyone who accrues 1000 points or more on their octorun. Since this has never been done it would be interesting to see how much practice people put in".[/quote]

I think Julian would be the last person to moan about something like that. Realisitically, accruing 1000 points over 8 games I think would be basically impossible considering you'd probably have to play 5 shows in a day plus the luck of all the selections - 940 maybe but maxing out at 950 would be the absolute limit IMO. I thought Julian's score aggregate and individual score would never be beaten and I wouldn't be suprised now if someone scored over 146 the way it is these days.

Everyone could do with a bit of cash but even though I won £500 for being a runner up and was a lot of money at the time, the experience would have still been the same if I left with £0. My own experience is based entirely on intrinsic rewards.

Think my rewards were the standard goody bag + teapot in the heats, a small clock, silver tray from the series finals and then a glass paperweight with "Champion of Champions 2003" engraved which I still have.

[Kirk Bevins]

940 maybe but maxing out at 950 would be the absolute limit IMO.

Nah, this won't be the limit in years to come I think. I've done 981 at home in a set of eight (think it was Andrew Hulme's run) and yes I know it's different to doing it in the studio but I've gone over 950 a few times in a string of 8 games in practice.

[Lesley Hines]

I think there should be a teapot for the highest losing score of the series.

[Craig Beevers]

940 maybe but maxing out at 950 would be the absolute limit IMO.

Nah, this won't be the limit in years to come I think. I've done 981 at home in a set of eight (think it was Andrew Hulme's run) and yes I know it's different to doing it in the studio but I've gone over 950 a few times in a string of 8 games in practice.

Yep. I was significantly better in the finals and I'd have still gotten 950 in the heats with more 9s available (spotting 9s was what I strongest at).

[Gavin Chipper]

Is this realistic though? A lot of players have had octoruns where 1000 hasn't even been possible.

Looking here shows that most octochamps have had more than 1000 points available to them.

Well I know but no-one is ever likely to get the maximum possible in 8 games, so the max would need to be a reasonable amount over 1000 for it to be remotely likely. Andrew Hulme's max was 1078 according to that list and scoring 1000 would be about 92.8% of that (yeah I know percentage of max isn't everything, but shut your face (not you Kirk, just anyone who's thinking of opening their mouth at that point)). It also seems that the highest percentage of the max ever actually attained is Craig's 92.1 %, which is actually within striking distance of that. So with a brilliant player with a decent run of letters/numbers, 1000 might just happen one day, but it's stretching it. However, the way the letters are sorted and so on seems to vary over time (ignoring any denials of this) so if we have a period of favourable sorting then it might be possible without too big a fluke of letters. It would still require a brilliant player to be there to pick it up though.

Edit - just to put this into perspective - 1000 points is 125 per game. If you score an average of 7 per letters round, get every numbers spot on and every conundrum, you'd still need 6 nine-letter words on top of that to achieve your goal.

[Kirk Bevins]

Edit - just to put this into perspective - 1000 points is 125 per game. If you score an average of 7 per letters round, get every numbers spot on and every conundrum, you'd still need 6 nine-letter words on top of that to achieve your goal.

Say in the 11 letters rounds you get 10 7s and 1 9 (or anything that averages out to 10 7s, say some 6s some 7s and some 8s but to total 70 points). That's 128 points straight off. Maintain this over 8 shows and job's a good'un. Hard, but doable. Then you'll get some shows with 2 or 3 nines in to give you a bit of leeway.

The bar is being pushed ever higher with apterous - I can see someone really giving it a good crack in the future.

[JimBentley]

I'm not sure it'll ever be done. The average max available so far this series is about 127 and the average 8-game max available is about 1020, so it gives even a brilliant player very little margin of error. The rolling 8-game max frequently dips below 1000, making it impossible for even a Rex-like player, and the peaks like the 1077 or 1078 or whatever available to Andrew are pretty rare. If our hypothetical super-player was to get 1000, he or she would pretty much have to never slip up (whether that be losing a round, missing a conundrum, etc.) and that seems unlikely.

[Kirk Bevins]

I'm not sure it'll ever be done. The average max available so far this series is about 127 and the average 8-game max available is about 1020, so it gives even a brilliant player very little margin of error. The rolling 8-game max frequently dips below 1000, making it impossible for even a Rex-like player, and the peaks like the 1077 or 1078 or whatever available to Andrew are pretty rare. If our hypothetical super-player was to get 1000, he or she would pretty much have to never slip up (whether that be losing a round, missing a conundrum, etc.) and that seems unlikely.

It seems unlikely at the moment but the more people practise, the more max games people get and the less mistakes they make. I think it can be done.

[Paul Howe]

I think 950 is gettable with a following wind, but 1000 is freakishly unlikely, you'd need a combination of very generous selections and someone playing like Paul Gallen in his CofC for it to be a realistic possibility.

[Gavin Chipper]

Say in the 11 letters rounds you get 10 7s and 1 9 (or anything that averages out to 10 7s, say some 6s some 7s and some 8s but to total 70 points). That's 128 points straight off. Maintain this over 8 shows and job's a good'un. Hard, but doable. Then you'll get some shows with 2 or 3 nines in to give you a bit of leeway.

The bar is being pushed ever higher with apterous - I can see someone really giving it a good crack in the future.

That would be so hard to maintain over 8 games though. That 128 would be a fucking good game by anyone's standards, and to get that or near that as your average would be amazing. Even the top players lose the odd round in the letters, and to get all 30 numbers and every conundrum is not exactly a piece of piss. Also you mention a few games with two or three nines, but what about games with none? We're talking about 8 nines in total (I don't know what the average is) and getting 1024. That's too small a margin.

Also, the nearer to perfection you get, the harder it is to make the same gain in terms of points. Julian Fell increased the record from 875 to 924 and was considered by many to be in another league, but do do the same to that score would require an even bigger leap in terms of performance and that would "only" be 973.

Yes, I know you got about 980 in Hulme's run but his was the octorun with the highest max recorded. But as I say it might just happen if the letters are more "sugar-coated" in future.

[Kirk Bevins]

That 128 would be a fucking good game by anyone's standards, and to get that or near that as your average would be amazing. Even the top players lose the odd round in the letters, and to get all 30 numbers and every conundrum is not exactly a piece of piss.

Do you mean 24 numbers? Anyway I'm saying with practice the octototals will improve, even if selections stayed roughly the same. I made a spreadsheet (which I sent to Charlie later) of my performance against challenger, champion, and the maximum in that show and loads of other stats. (Well I didn't make it, Sid did for me). It highlighted any game where I got 13 maxes out of 15 or more. It highlighted games where individual scores were over 120. It highlighted in green octochamp runs that were over 924 (record) and in yellow over (907). It also highlighted green over 8 game periods where my percentage of the maximum available was higher than 92.4% (or whatever Beevers got) and yellow if I beat the next percentage max (we didn't have Julian's stats then so I think it was 88% from DOD from memory- too lazy to check). Anyway as time went on with more practice I noticed more and more highlighting. I beat 924 around 40% of times and where there were shows with a high max (say around 140-150) then any run of 8 through those shows usually meant I beat 924.

The point of saying this is I reckon if people continue practising on apterous to a high level and are serious about their game they will see their percentage max go up and they'll see more highlighted cells. Yes you'd have to be lucky with the selections but after sooo much practice you aren't going to be missing nines like MRTSAOEID or even hard nines like NTSIEIRET.

[Gavin Chipper]

Do you mean 24 numbers?

Yes. I was probably thinking of the mx numbers score in a game.

The point of saying this is I reckon if people continue practising on apterous to a high level and are serious about their game they will see their percentage max go up and they'll see more highlighted cells. Yes you'd have to be lucky with the selections but after sooo much practice you aren't going to be missing nines like MRTSAOEID or even hard nines like NTSIEIRET.

OK, fair enough, but did your statistical analysis show your percentage max go up at a lower rate as it got higher? It would get harder and harder to increase it. We'll see what happens though - I'd love to see 1000. You'd also need someone patient enough to become as good as say you, and then still not apply until they are even better.

[Kirk Bevins]

OK, fair enough, but did your statistical analysis show your percentage max go up at a lower rate as it got higher?

It wasn't that detailed but it would have done. I kept trying to beat my high score of like 961 which I managed by a point or two every now and then.

It would get harder and harder to increase it. We'll see what happens though - I'd love to see 1000. You'd also need someone patient enough to become as good as say you, and then still not apply until they are even better.

That's the problem. I wasn't going to go on when I did as I didn't think I was good enough yet but Charlie kicked me into gear and told me to stop being stupid.

[Sue Sanders]

I don't really take much notice of the accrued points and maxes and stuff so can I ask, please ....how often does it happen that an octochamp scores the max available on all eight of their games? Is that unusual or not?

[Jon Corby]

I don't really take much notice of the accrued points and maxes and stuff so can I ask, please ....how often does it happen that an octochamp scores the max available on all eight of their games? Is that unusual or not?

Nobody's ever even got close to maxing all eight. Kirk's perfect game last series was the first (and only) such recorded incidence.

[Sue Sanders]

It's just I was thinking, winning some sort of additional achievement prize could be available, that wasn't reliant on good letters coming out and where spotting, say a good 5 amongst crap letters was rewarded equally. Adding ING, IER and IEST etc, can help get a longer word without too much extra effort - but spotting obscure little words with less common patterns of letters is also a skill.

So, you're saying what Kirk did is currently a one off? So, could doing that again not be the thing that wins the £1,000 - 'The Bevins Bonus'!!?

p.s. On the subject of a Bevins bonus - did you get a mug for your conundrum answering in yesterday's show?A spare one? A bit like the one my dad broke?

[Jon Corby]

It's just I was thinking, winning some sort of additional achievement prize could be available, that wasn't reliant on good letters coming out and where spotting, say a good 5 amongst crap letters was rewarded equally. Adding ING, IER and IEST etc, can help get a longer word without too much extra effort - but spotting obscure little words with less common patterns of letters is also a skill.

So, you're saying what Kirk did is currently a one off? So, could doing that again not be the thing that wins the £1,000 - 'The Bevins Bonus'!!?

One tiny problem is that we're kinda judging it to be a max game, based on "our" dictionary file. It's possible (but very unlikely) that this doesn't fully reflect the dictionary as would be allowed on the show. Could there be an obscure beater lurking in Kirk's rounds that is absent from our dictionary file? As I said, unlikely, but you could imagine a scenario where there's a mass noun plural hidden in there which Susie wasn't forced to adjudicate on because it wasn't offered, and where does that leave us? (Basically what I'm saying is that the whole "max" concept isn't really an official one, as far as I know the show has never ever recognised it)

[Kirk Bevins]

One tiny problem is that we're kinda judging it to be a max game, based on "our" dictionary file. It's possible (but very unlikely) that this doesn't fully reflect the dictionary as would be allowed on the show. Could there be an obscure beater lurking in Kirk's rounds that is absent from our dictionary file? As I said, unlikely, but you could imagine a scenario where there's a mass noun plural hidden in there which Susie wasn't forced to adjudicate on because it wasn't offered, and where does that leave us? (Basically what I'm saying is that the whole "max" concept isn't really an official one, as far as I know the show has never ever recognised it)

Interesting. What about using other solvers, even those using American spellings? I know this will never be definitive but it would give a bloody good idea.

Bevins Bonus sounds sweet for a max game but can I have the first £1000 please?

[Kirk Bevins]

p.s. On the subject of a Bevins bonus - did you get a mug for your conundrum answering in yesterday's show?A spare one? A bit like the one my dad broke?

Yeah I did get a mug and I donated it to a woman in the audience who said her mum would love one. She also asked if I could sign the box - I was thrilled.

[Jon Corby]

One tiny problem is that we're kinda judging it to be a max game, based on "our" dictionary file. It's possible (but very unlikely) that this doesn't fully reflect the dictionary as would be allowed on the show. Could there be an obscure beater lurking in Kirk's rounds that is absent from our dictionary file? As I said, unlikely, but you could imagine a scenario where there's a mass noun plural hidden in there which Susie wasn't forced to adjudicate on because it wasn't offered, and where does that leave us? (Basically what I'm saying is that the whole "max" concept isn't really an official one, as far as I know the show has never ever recognised it)

Interesting. What about using other solvers, even those using American spellings? I know this will never be definitive but it would give a bloody good idea.

Bevins Bonus sounds sweet for a max game but can I have the first £1000 please?

Sorry mate, I wasn't at all trying to intimate that yours might not have been a max game, just saying that it's not really an "official" stat as recorded by the show kinda thing.

[Sue Sanders]

Ah, fair enough. You certainly couldn't expect Susie to make a decision that affected someone winning a stack o' cash or not. Maybe a numbers max prize and/or conundrum 100% record? Or maybe just something judged by Kirk on an annual basis, on whether he likes the cut of their gib!

And yes, Of course you can have the first thou, Kirkybaby. Damo will be fine with that.

[Charlie Reams]

You certainly couldn't expect Susie to make a decision that affected someone winning a stack o' cash or not.

She has to do that fairly regularly anyway. But yeah, what Corby said. I think it's been established now that there isn't a definitive standard of what words will or won't be accepted.

[Clive Brooker]

Before the concept of a max game can even be mentioned on the show, the use of a computer would have to be admitted openly, and this would fundamentally change the show (the style rather than the substance).

[Jon Corby]

Before the concept of a max game can even be mentioned on the show, the use of a computer would have to be admitted openly, and this would fundamentally change the show (the style rather than the substance).

Yeah, that's kinda what I was trying to say too. Thanks Clive

[Phil Reynolds]

Yeah I did get a mug and I donated it to a woman in the audience who said her mum would love one. She also asked if I could sign the box

Hers or her mum's?

[D Eadie]

Max mentions etc, all very boring for regular viewers. It's a gentle, friendly, mental exercise and needs to stay that way. All the talk about prizes and 1000 pts etc, it's all bollocks. And you know it.

[Kirk Bevins]

It's a gentle, friendly, mental exercise and needs to stay that way.

Ah, shit.

[JackHurst]

Max mentions etc, all very boring for regular viewers. It's a gentle, friendly, mental exercise and needs to stay that way. All the talk about prizes and 1000 pts etc, it's all bollocks. And you know it.

I was about to post something along these lines. The average viewer will just ignore the concept of maxes, either because they don't find it interesting, or because it confuses them a bit. Plus what Clive said about admitting the use of computers was a good point.

And at what Kirk is saying about all the practise; I don't think anybody in the time the show will last for will ever put in the amount of practise necessary to give them the chance of breaking 1000 if the selections go their way. The amount of practise you will need to put in to get theere would be loads more than you'd be likely to need to put in to win a series (and possibly a CofC), so I really don't see the incentive.

[Gavin Chipper]

Actually I was thinking about what Craig said about his best skill being finding nines, but he only got about two in his octorun. So it's quite possible that if he'd had more nines he could have taken all of them, and therefore missed out on the total max by the same amount as he did anyway - 78 points I think. The max in Andrew Hulme's run was 1078...

Regarding the point about all maxes being unofficial - yes and everything, but couldn't there be an official word list rather than relying on the dictionary? I'm sure this has been discussed many times and there was a book once I think but it wasn't actually used on the show.

If there's copyright problems with using the words from the ODE, then this could be sold exclusively with the ODE for an extra £3.

[Charlie Reams]

couldn't there be an official word list rather than relying on the dictionary? I'm sure this has been discussed many times and there was a book once I think but it wasn't actually used on the show.

There might even be some eager aspiring lexicographer who would compile such a thing for nothing...

[Kirk Bevins]

The amount of practise you will need to put in to get theere would be loads more than you'd be likely to need to put in to win a series (and possibly a CofC), so I really don't see the incentive.

I disagree. Innis and Chris are both excellent players and have both practised their guts out (although clearly they could do with a few more years of intense training to get even more max games etc) and one, if not both, of them isn't going to win a series.

[Gavin Chipper]

couldn't there be an official word list rather than relying on the dictionary? I'm sure this has been discussed many times and there was a book once I think but it wasn't actually used on the show.

There might even be some eager aspiring lexicographer who would compile such a thing for nothing...

I'm not sure I follow. I mean, I know there's the list used on Apterous that I think Jim mainly compiled (is that right - I wouldn't want to do anyone out of credit) but it's not official. Maybe that's nothing to do with what you meant though.

[Gavin Chipper]

The amount of practise you will need to put in to get theere would be loads more than you'd be likely to need to put in to win a series (and possibly a CofC), so I really don't see the incentive.

I disagree. Innis and Chris are both excellent players and have both practised their guts out (although clearly they could do with a few more years of intense training to get even more max games etc) and one, if not both, of them isn't going to win a series.

But in terms of the top seeds, this series probably has the highest standard ever. No-one scoring as much as Innis (at number 3) has ever not been number 1 seed before, I think.

I think there would be the incentive for some people, but in terms of work to put in, even someone racking up 900 would have a long way to go before realistically achieving 1000. They are probably less than halfway!

[Kirk Bevins]

I think there would be the incentive for some people, but in terms of work to put in, even someone racking up 900 would have a long way to go before realistically achieving 1000. They are probably less than halfway!

Yes they'd have to put in years of effort I feel but I think it's possible. If Innis can achieve what he has in such a short amount of practice time on apterous then I think it's possible over a longer period. The top 3 guns this series have (I'm guessing) by and large been bred from Apterous and people determined to win will be practising harder than ever before and we will see several series like 61 where the few at the top are circa 900 and then number 4 seed is maybe in the high 700s/low 800s.

I played 8 random classic games (may have been in a row - can't remember) and I got 1008. I remember writing the scores down and thinking "imagine this was on TV - smashing 924 by getting 1008". Sadly I didn't really smash 924 when it mattered, more like trickled past it.