Spoilers for Wed 04/03/2009

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:29 pm

Wow. I'm so glad I did it. I never had had a max game watching from home (although I had a couple on apterous) so I was well chuffed to get it whilst playing. I fished for a final E for ENATION in that last round but it wasn't to be.

I didn't realise I was on for a max game - I was so focused every round that I didn't realise I was on for it. Why are the conundrums always hard when you're on for a good score or a record? I found that with the 5 nine game with a max of 172 ages ago when the answer was RETICENCE and lots of us thought it was ECCENTRIC. I wrote the conundrum down in my usual circle and then saw STORM and then RAIN fell out. You see me shoot to look at the monitor and look for 2 dangerous seconds just to try to confirm that I hadn't written it down wrong and there were two Rs etc and even then I hadn't fully checked it but I didn't want to be beaten to the buzzer so I just pressed it and hesitantly said the answer. That's why, when it was revealed, I sank back in the chair and breathed a sigh of relief.

I'm glad all of you are enjoying the shows.

Junaid Mubeen · Post by **Junaid Mubeen** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:39 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:I'm glad all of you are enjoying the shows.

Very hard not to. More!!!!

Julie T · Post by **Julie T** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:08 pm

Lesley Jeavons wrote:
Ah I see, and I hope you're not too disappointed and can live with that.

Thanks for the link - interesting. I think your avatar could be having an affect on Charlie's attitude these days too.

I'll survive. I already have 5 children anyway. LOL!

Maybe you're right, Charlie does appear to be mellowing.
And that's not a challenge to post something scathing, Charlie!

Kirk Bevins wrote:
I'm glad all of you are enjoying the shows.

Definitely! Great telly!

Dan Vanniasingham · Post by **Dan Vanniasingham** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:20 pm

I expect victim #3 to face an onslaught...

My expectation was met.

Well played mate.

Kathleen Batlle · Post by **Kathleen Batlle** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:21 pm

Another brilliant game, Kirk, well done. I felt a bit sorry for Ben, he just didn't stand a chance, poor fellow. I'll have to record the next 4 games, poo, but will watch them all when I get back next Wed. Good luck Kirk, your next opponents must all be shaking in their shoes!

Vikash Shah · Post by **Vikash Shah** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:31 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:I like Rachel's outfit.

Me too, but I wouldn't mind seeing her out of it

Incredible performance and awesome scoring, Kirk!

Eoin Monaghan · Post by **Eoin Monaghan** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:36 pm

I missed todays game can someone tell me the scores please?

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:37 pm

Eoin Monaghan wrote:I missed todays game can someone tell me the scores please?

Kirk got 126 (out of a possible 126), the other guy got, like, 50-something. Kirk had won it before round 12, I believe.

Eoin Monaghan · Post by **Eoin Monaghan** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:43 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:
Eoin Monaghan wrote:I missed todays game can someone tell me the scores please?
Kirk got 126 (out of a possible 126), the other guy got, like, 50-something. Kirk had won it before round 12, I believe.

thanks

Keith Bevins · Post by **Keith Bevins** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:08 pm

What can i say. After the euphoria of beating him yesterday i got absolutely destroyed today. If you weren't my son kirk i'd hate you

or then again maybe not.

Chris Davies · Post by **Chris Davies** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:12 pm

Congratulations Kirk!

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:43 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:So there you have it. The max game. And it only took 27 years. Fucking beautiful.

Brilliant game. But I would be surprised if no-one ever achieved a max in the 9-round era (even if BECLOUD is allowed). It's so much easier to get 9 maxes than 15 (or less difficult anyway - it's not easy).

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:45 pm

Lesley Jeavons wrote:
Julie T wrote:Can I have your child while I still have time, Kirk?
Turkey baster method obviously, in case this conjures up horrific images! LOL!
The turkey baster method is surely less visually pleasing. I mean, I've never googled for porn, but I guess there's more of a market for 'traditional' sex than basting...

BTW and off topic, what's your avatar from? I saw it in a shop window and recognised it as being yours.

Anyone here used to watch Sunset Beach in the 90s?

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:46 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:
Lesley Jeavons wrote:
Julie T wrote:Can I have your child while I still have time, Kirk?
Turkey baster method obviously, in case this conjures up horrific images! LOL!
The turkey baster method is surely less visually pleasing. I mean, I've never googled for porn, but I guess there's more of a market for 'traditional' sex than basting...

BTW and off topic, what's your avatar from? I saw it in a shop window and recognised it as being yours.
Anyone here used to watch Sunset Beach in the 90s?

Why? Is that where your avatar is from?

Junaid Mubeen · Post by **Junaid Mubeen** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:49 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:Anyone here used to watch Sunset Beach in the 90s?

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that I did, yes.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:50 pm

Haha no, but one of the female characters drugged her female rival and a male friend of the rival, and using a turkey baster got her pregnant with his sperm. Since then, I can never look at a turkey baster and not snigger.

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:51 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:So there you have it. The max game. And it only took 27 years. Fucking beautiful.
Brilliant game. But I would be surprised if no-one ever achieved a max in the 9-round era (even if BECLOUD is allowed). It's so much easier to get 9 maxes than 15 (or less difficult anyway - it's not easy).

I wonder what formula you'd use for difficulty. It's a bit like tossing a coin and having 9 heads in a row, compared to 15. Obviously that's 2^9 against 2^15, so it's something along those lines.

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:56 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:I wonder what formula you'd use for difficulty. It's a bit like tossing a coin and having 9 heads in a row, compared to 15. Obviously that's 2^9 against 2^15, so it's something along those lines.

Being a bit of a stats-freak I've already looked into this. Turns out that the difficulty for a 9-rounder is 14, whereas for a 15-rounder it's -5. Crazy, huh?

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:00 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:So there you have it. The max game. And it only took 27 years. Fucking beautiful.
Brilliant game. But I would be surprised if no-one ever achieved a max in the 9-round era (even if BECLOUD is allowed). It's so much easier to get 9 maxes than 15 (or less difficult anyway - it's not easy).
I wonder what formula you'd use for difficulty. It's a bit like tossing a coin and having 9 heads in a row, compared to 15. Obviously that's 2^9 against 2^15, so it's something along those lines.

Yep. Something like that. The extra rounds make a big difference to the probability. The sort of person who might be good enough to expect one max game in an octochamp run over 9 rounds would expect a max about every 32 games over 15 (if all rounds were of the same type because it's easier that way).

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:01 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:
Martin Gardner wrote:I wonder what formula you'd use for difficulty. It's a bit like tossing a coin and having 9 heads in a row, compared to 15. Obviously that's 2^9 against 2^15, so it's something along those lines.
Being a bit of a stats-freak I've already looked into this. Turns out that the difficulty for a 9-rounder is 14, whereas for a 15-rounder it's -5. Crazy, huh?

In the old final format of 14 rounds the difficulty was 3 + 4i.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:48 pm

Kathleen Batlle wrote:Another brilliant game, Kirk, well done. I felt a bit sorry for Ben, he just didn't stand a chance, poor fellow. I'll have to record the next 4 games, poo, but will watch them all when I get back next Wed. Good luck Kirk, your next opponents must all be shaking in their shoes!

Only three, Kathleen. Countdown's taking a break from Tuesday to Friday next week. Kirk's final two, all being well, will be on the following week.

Julie T · Post by **Julie T** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:26 pm

Howard Somerset wrote: Countdown's taking a break from Tuesday to Friday next week. Kirk's final two, all being well, will be on the following week.

Nooooo! The suspense will kill me! Bloomin' racing, or whatever it is.

Innis Carson · Post by **Innis Carson** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:13 pm

Wow, just watched it there and it's sinking in just how epic an event that was. It's the understatement of the century, but congrats Kirk!

Martin Bishop · Post by **Martin Bishop** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:28 pm

Very impressive. Annoyingly so. My fragile ego can't take much more of this. You beat me even worse on tv than you do on apterous!

Nicky · Post by **Nicky** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:21 pm

Well done Kirk! Your divinity is confirmed.

And well done everyone else for not revealing that the max game had happened (outside the spoiler threads). I just watched it on the computer and was trying not to get too excited, thinking such a momentous event would surely have been leaked.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:27 pm

Nicky wrote:Well done Kirk! Your divinity is confirmed.

And well done everyone else for not revealing that the max game had happened (outside the spoiler threads). I just watched it on the computer and was trying not to get too excited, thinking such a momentous event would surely have been leaked.

Thanks very much. It was very hard (particularly since Martin was talking about nobody having done that and mentioning Gallen's 14 consecutive maxes being the best or something when I got 16) but somehow we all managed to keep it quiet until screening.

Neil Zussman · Post by **Neil Zussman** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:21 pm

Well done Kirk! Glad I wasn't your opponent on that day!
Out of interest, has anyone ever maxed all the letters and messed up the numbers/ conundrum before? Or is Kirk the first to max the letters full stop? I know Craig Beavers missed out on one letters round in his 120/121 but has anyone done it?

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:10 pm

Neil Zussman wrote:Well done Kirk! Glad I wasn't your opponent on that day!
Out of interest, has anyone ever maxed all the letters and messed up the numbers/ conundrum before? Or is Kirk the first to max the letters full stop? I know Craig Beavers missed out on one letters round in his 120/121 but has anyone done it?

Paul Gallen maxed every round except the last numbers in his CofC final. And it went to a crucial conundrum!

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:28 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:Paul Gallen maxed every round except the last numbers in his CofC final. And it went to a crucial conundrum!

Not surprised Paul missed a max on that numbers game. The target was not achievable, and getting one away has a 76% rating.

Incidentally, had he scored by going 4 away, as his opponent did in that round, he'd have got a max score, even though it would've been possible to get closer to the target in R14. Would that have counted as a perfect game?

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:42 pm

Neil Zussman wrote:Out of interest, has anyone ever maxed all the letters and messed up the numbers/ conundrum before?

Both players (Conor & Paul) maxed every letters round in this epic game.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:43 pm

Double post.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:46 pm

Jon Corby wrote:Double post.

I thought you could delete it within five minutes? Guess it's less than five minutes then (as I'm not doubting your forum skills).

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:44 pm

Howard Somerset wrote:Incidentally, had he scored by going 4 away, as his opponent did in that round, he'd have got a max score, even though it would've been possible to get closer to the target in R14. Would that have counted as a perfect game?

I think I remember reading that Allan Saldanha might have done that in a supreme game. I'm not sure I'd count it.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:30 am

Howard Somerset wrote:Would that have counted as a perfect game?

It shouldn't really, but apterous and CDB would probably count it as such.

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:50 am

Charlie Reams wrote:
Howard Somerset wrote:Would that have counted as a perfect game?
It shouldn't really, but apterous and CDB would probably count it as such.

I think for numbers you should get (10 - distance from target) points. This would make it easier clarify 'max game'.

Howard Somerset · Post by **Howard Somerset** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:30 pm

Kai Laddiman wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
Howard Somerset wrote:Would that have counted as a perfect game?
It shouldn't really, but apterous and CDB would probably count it as such.
I think for numbers you should get (10 - distance from target) points. This would make it easier clarify 'max game'.

Agreed, almost. Though I'd make it 7 for 1 away, decreasing by 1 point for every 1 further away, thus giving a bigger incentive to get it spot on.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:58 pm

Howard Somerset wrote:
Kai Laddiman wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote: It shouldn't really, but apterous and CDB would probably count it as such.
I think for numbers you should get (10 - distance from target) points. This would make it easier clarify 'max game'.
Agreed, almost. Though I'd make it 7 for 1 away, decreasing by 1 point for every 1 further away, thus giving a bigger incentive to get it spot on.

I assume you don't mean people would get -2 points for being ten away!

Paul Hammond · Post by **Paul Hammond** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:16 pm

Of course, it should be some non-linear function of the distance away from the target, to reflect how much easier it is to merely get close to it. Max(10-d^2, 0), say. I'd like to see Jeff explain that to the audience, though

. Howard's suggestion is in effect something like that, I suppose.

Clive Brooker · Post by **Clive Brooker** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:36 pm

Have there been any changes to the scoring system since the launch of the original pilot?

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:05 pm

Clive Brooker wrote:Have there been any changes to the scoring system since the launch of the original pilot?

You used to get 5 points for being closest on the numbers, even if you were more than 10 away. I think that was changed between the pilot and Episode 1, although I'm not sure.

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:14 pm

Martin Gardner wrote:For 15 rounds, almost certainly. For 9 rounds or even 15 we don't have nearly enough data. There's a Tim Morrissey game on the Countdown Wiki where gets 73 out of 74 with BECLOUD listed as a DC beater. But unless we find the dictionary that they used in Series 33, we will never know if it was allowed back then! This waas 13 years ago after all.

BECLOUD was definitely valid back then, so no max for Tim I'm afraid (at least not on that occasion).

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:28 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Clive Brooker wrote:Have there been any changes to the scoring system since the launch of the original pilot?
You used to get 5 points for being closest on the numbers, even if you were more than 10 away. I think that was changed between the pilot and Episode 1, although I'm not sure.

On the original French version you can always get six on the numbers, no matter how far away you are. I saw one episode where the first player declared nothing and the second one declared 48 or something, and got six points for it.

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:09 pm

Neil Zussman wrote:Well done Kirk! Glad I wasn't your opponent on that day!
Out of interest, has anyone ever maxed all the letters and messed up the numbers/ conundrum before? Or is Kirk the first to max the letters full stop? I know Craig Beavers missed out on one letters round in his 120/121 but has anyone done it?

Just to have a comprehensive answer to this in one place, there have been 5 perfect letters games in the 15-round era

The first and second were by Conor and me, in the series 54 semi
The third was by Paul Gallen, in the CofC final (incidentally he only missed 3 letters maxes in his 4 CofC appearances, the highest standard at which Countdown has ever been played in my book)
The fourth was by Craig Beevers, in the series 57 final, which was a different game to his 120/121
And the fifth is the subject of this very thread. Well in Kirk!

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:19 pm

Paul Howe wrote: Just to have a comprehensive answer to this in one place, there have been 5 perfect letters games in the 15-round era

At least 5...

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:29 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Paul Howe wrote: Just to have a comprehensive answer to this in one place, there have been 5 perfect letters games in the 15-round era
At least 5...

No. Shut up. Me and Conor definitely had the first perfect letters game and that is that. In my opinion there's no chance of finding another amongst the big pile that we don't have records for, especially Julian's.

Seriously though, it's daft that we don't have complete records of the best (for now) octorun in Countdown history. Someone must surely have them? Same goes for Chris Wills, I know his games used to be on his website, not sure if that's still the case.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:39 pm

Paul Howe wrote: Seriously though, it's daft that we don't have complete records of the best (for now) octorun in Countdown history. Someone must surely have them?

Wheels are in motion.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:52 pm

Finally got round to watching this. I liked Dr. Phil's anecdote.

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:05 pm

like-o