Can a plane take off on a treadmill?

[Jon Corby]

A passenger plane (which flies at an airspeed of about 500mph, and needs to reach about 150mph to take-off) is placed on a treadmill which moves in the opposite direction to which the plane is facing. The treadmill can easily match the 500mph that the plane usually flies at, and is rigged up to exactly match the speed of the plane, so that as the plane speeds up, the treadmill increases its speed to match that of the aircraft.

Does the plane take off? Explain your reasoning.

[Michael Wallace]

Oh god.

[Ben Wilson]

My immensely sketchy knowledge of avionics says 'no' on the grounds that what makes a plane take off isn't the speed its wheels are revolving at but the speed at which air is being forced under its wings, causing uplift. As it's stationary relative to the air, there's no uplift, hence no take-off.

I think.

[Ian Fitzpatrick]

I agree with Ben, but I'm wary of Jon asking such a question!

[Matt Morrison]

I've gone for no. The air/wind factor must be a major contribution to take off.

[Charlie Reams]

I feel like I'm spoiling Corby's fun by doing this but, after the induction debacle, I don't think I can endure another 200-post thread of ill-informed people arguing about things they don't understand. For those new to the fun, this debate is a (somewhat famous) Internet meme that has caused huge arguments on thousands of message boards, often dragging in apparently intelligent people, including physicists, on both sides. The basic problem is that, aside from the common misconception about how planes take off (qv Ben's post), the problem is not properly defined. See http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/09/09/the-god ... treadmill/ for a pretty good explanation, with pictures and everything.

[Matt Morrison]

Thanks for the link Charlie.

Perhaps the final paragraph is something we should all live by here at C4C: "I suggest posting stories about something that happened to you recently, and post nice things about other peoples’ stories."
Perhaps not though.

[Gary Male]

Does "I saw it on Mythbusters" count as a reasoning for my vote?

[Ian Fitzpatrick]

Good call Charlie, I've given up eating sandwiches as a result of the other topic.

[Michael Wallace]

Good call Charlie, I've given up eating sandwiches as a result of the other topic.

Do you still eat half sandwiches?

[Ian Fitzpatrick]

Good call Charlie, I've given up eating sandwiches as a result of the other topic.

Do you still eat half sandwiches?

Funny you should say that, I made a sandwich the other day and SWMBO asked for half, but I had already cut it into four and she took two, so I have no idea whether I was duped or what.

[Jon Corby]

I hate you Charlie.

[Nicky]

Yeah, you spoil sport Charlie! What are we ill-informed folks gonna argue about now?