C4C Cryptic Crossword No. 1

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:36 pm

It's here! As promised, I present the first ever C4C Cryptic Crossword Competition. This is a proper competition, with a real prize. See below for details of how to enter and the rules.

The prize
One lucky winner will receive book tokens to the value of £10. Yes, ten British pounds!

The challenge
Using your skill and judgement, complete the crossword grid below using the clues supplied. Some (but not all) of the answers will be words or phrases familiar to members of this forum. Here goes:

Across
1 Jug of wine for artist in diner (6)
4 Someone showing up an hour early for elevenses has Damian Eadie initially close to rage (8)
9 Crooked cheats exhibiting purity (6)
10 I abandon devotees jumping around in exercise garments (8)
11 Flashy car from east end of region of France (9)
13 Divisions obtained by happily subtracting an irrational number (roughly) (5)
14 Standard of word presentation should be high in Dictionary Corner! (7,7)
17 A terse estimate approximately solved during breaks (7,7)
18 Unsophisticated backwater (5)
20 The final countdown for prisoner - and German spirit (9)
23 Hear French saucy remark, perhaps, when repeated (8)
24 Arch that's synchronised with others? (6)
25 Talk over noise to indicate vertical position (8)
26 A university qualification in 60 minutes? (6)

Down
1 Charlie heartlessly gets 149 from target generator (5)
2 Kingdom of Montreal, maybe? (5)
3 Chopped feta cut up in one pasta dish (9)
5 Alice's adversary in train starting here, end of railroad - Victoria, perhaps? (3,3,5)
6 Crazy poster loses right to preclude denial (5)
7 Filthy fibber - stupidly, I'd try and rail back (5,4)
8 Not difficult to adopt Central Standard Time - such joy! (7)
12 In a clip from silly 'X' certificate short, keeping quiet (2,2,7)
15 Confused date after I came back looking malnourished (9)
16 One holding party in South Africa follows beast of burden with similar sound (9)
17 Financial backer is in to fruity hybrid (7)
19 Maria von Trapp, perhaps, once she got out of the habit! (2-3)
21 It spins in both directions (5)
22 Find beech kernel after ordering palm tree (5)

How to enter
PM me your answers by 6pm (GMT) on Sunday, February 8th. Include with your answers the following information:

your full name
your postal address

(this information will be used solely for sending you the prize should you win).

Unlike the Cryptic Forumites competition, I will not be publishing any information about who's entered and how well they've done until after the competition has closed. You are not required to include explanations as to how you derived the answers from the clues.

All correct entries will be eligible to win; after the closing date, one correct entry will be drawn at random and the sender of that entry will receive the prize.

Rules

The competition is only open to members of C4C.
No more than one entry may be submitted per person.
All instructions above about entering the competition form part of these rules.
Entries not complying with the rules shall be declared void.
The judge's decision is final.

That's it. Have fun and good luck!

Clare Sudbery · Post by **Clare Sudbery** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:55 pm

Ooh, what fun!

Thanks Phil.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:56 pm

Even though I obviously won't be taking part, I think you're an excellent man for doing this Phil.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:13 pm

I should perhaps point out that 10 across bends the same rule as my 'In France, I shop around' clue in the Cryptic Forumites thread.

And my favourite clue is 18 across. When it came to me, I chortled with glee and did a special crossword-clue compiler's dance that I devised on the spur of the moment.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:37 pm

Whoops - Clare has spotted the first deliberate mistake. The letter count for 7 down should be (5,4), not (9). I've edited the original post. Thanks Clare!

Clare Sudbery · Post by **Clare Sudbery** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:41 pm

Done. Will PM you. Some nice clues there.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:48 am

I don't know if I can enter this as I am still incensed by your Joseph Bolas clue

Martin Gardner · Post by **Martin Gardner** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:25 pm

I'm completely useless at stuff like this, so I won't enter. But well done for taking the time to do it.

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:43 am

Are we allowed to PM you partially complete answers and fill them in later?

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:53 am

Kai Laddiman wrote:Are we allowed to PM you partially complete answers and fill them in later?

No. (Though why would you want to?)

Les Butterworth · Post by **Les Butterworth** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:59 am

Well done Phill hopefully will have a go later but am also trying my hand at apterous for hopefull future participation they say it is harder in the studio than at home I'm finding it a lot harder on the PC than sat in my armchair LOL

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:24 am

Just a reminder that you only have a couple more days to enter this competition (if you haven't yet done so) and be in with the chance of winning a terrific prize. Quite a number of people have entered already, but the more people enter, the more I'll be encouraged to do similar competitions in future so get cryptifying!

All correct entries received by 6pm Sunday will go into the draw and one outright winner will be selected at random by CECIL (Crossword Entry Chooser In Leamington).

Remember: you've got to be in it to win it!

Ralph Gillions · Post by **Ralph Gillions** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:06 pm

I am not very smart with computers.
I cannot find a way of sending you a copy of my completed grid.
(Alternatively, I could send you a list of my answers, in the same sequence that the clues are listed.)
Failing that I'll look forward to checking my answers when you post the results.
I enjoyed doing it Phil.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:09 pm

Ralph Gillions wrote:Alternatively, I could send you a list of my answers, in the same sequence that the clues are listed.

That's what I did, I'm pretty sure that's what Phil's expecting.

Clare Sudbery · Post by **Clare Sudbery** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:10 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Ralph Gillions wrote:Alternatively, I could send you a list of my answers, in the same sequence that the clues are listed.
That's what I did, I'm pretty sure that's what Phil's expecting.

Yes - the easiest way to do it is just to copy and paste the list of clues from the top of this thread, and insert your answers (or replace clues with answers for neatness).

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:13 pm

Ralph Gillions wrote:Alternatively, I could send you a list of my answers, in the same sequence that the clues are listed.

That's what every entrant bar one has done so far.

Ralph Gillions · Post by **Ralph Gillions** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:24 pm

That's what I'll do then.
Thanks for the advice folks.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:48 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:All correct entries received by 6pm Sunday will go into the draw and one outright winner will be selected at random by CECIL (Crossword Entry Chooser In Leamington).

Remember: you've got to be in it to win it!

Oi! No hints!

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:07 pm

The competition has now closed and I can reveal that the lucky winner is... Ralph Gillions. Congratulations, Ralph; your book tokens are on their way. And many thanks and commiserations to the other entrants, six of whom submitted fully correct solutions.

Special commiserations must go to Chris Corby, whose entry was wrong by just one letter; I suspect, Chris, that you actually got 12 down right when completing the puzzle but then made a transcription error when typing it into a PM (you put "Is an excerpt" instead of "In an excerpt"). I was sorely tempted to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I had to be fair.

Charlie actually lost two opportunities to win: one had his own entry been drawn, and a second had Rosemary Roberts won as she wanted to donate her prize to the site.

Most of you seemed to enjoy solving the puzzle; I apologise for the fact that one or two of the answers were slightly contrived phrases (I haven't yet worked out how to set a crossword and avoid leaving myself with some grid entries for which no known word will fit), and for the fact that 10 across broke the rule about anagram fodder being visible in the clue. I mentioned previously that my favourite clue was 18 across ("Unsophisticated backwater": NAIVE - geddit?); believe it or not, I set the puzzle a fortnight ago and couldn't believe the coincidence when this thread appeared!

Anyway, here's the solution. If anyone is struggling to work out how some of the answers are derived from the clues, feel free to post.

Ralph Gillions · Post by **Ralph Gillions** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:32 pm

Thank you very much Phil.
I am delighted, not the least to have competed in such estimable company.
Thank you for your efforts in setting the crossword. I enjoyed it.
On BAFTA night my acceptance seems meagre by comparison.
But it is sincere.
Thanks.

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:43 pm

I got all but 7 of the clues right.

David Roe · Post by **David Roe** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:12 pm

Kai Laddiman wrote:I got all but 7 of the clues right.

I got ALL the clues right. It was the answers I struggled with.

Peter Mabey · Post by **Peter Mabey** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:34 pm

Phil, thanks again for a commendable first effort.
If you really want to get into cryptic crosswords, I recommend Chambers' Crossword Companion, which combines in one handy volume Don Manley's Crossword Manual (all about setting), their Dictionary (lots of ideas for clues) and their Completer (filling in between alternate letters).
I assume you know about the Yahoo crossword group.

Allan Harmer · Post by **Allan Harmer** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:03 pm

Phil

Just to reiterate my appreciation of your first effort. I found it very entertaining and a good challenge.

It was also good to see it personalised to the CD audience and the degree of difficulty was just about right. Several of the clues took a good bit of solving.

Loking forward to the next one.

Cheers!

Al

Chris Corby · Post by **Chris Corby** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:23 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Special commiserations must go to Chris Corby, whose entry was wrong by just one letter; I suspect, Chris, that you actually got 12 down right when completing the puzzle but then made a transcription error when typing it into a PM (you put "Is an excerpt" instead of "In an excerpt").

Yes of course Phil, that's what happened

Anyway, it's not the first time it has occurred. If I hadn't put a letter in the wrong place a long time ago my son would never have been born.

Congratulations to Ralph and you must be pleased Phil with the high volume of response to your crossword. Must make all that hard work seem worthwhile.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:57 pm

Good stuff, and I'm just happy that I got to the final draw.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:03 am

Chris Corby wrote:Anyway, it's not the first time it has occurred. If I hadn't put a letter in the wrong place a long time ago my son would never have been born.

Best. Post. Ever.

...for this week.

Reminds me of the time I told my dad I wanted to be an astronaut when I grew up as my main ambition in life was to be fired into space. He grunted and said, "If I'd had my way when you were conceived, you would have been."

Congratulations to Ralph and you must be pleased Phil with the high volume of response to your crossword. Must make all that hard work seem worthwhile.

I received 8 entries in total - I won't deny that I was hoping for at least a couple more. I'll definitely do another one some time though.

Allan Harmer · Post by **Allan Harmer** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:16 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Chris Corby wrote:
Congratulations to Ralph and you must be pleased Phil with the high volume of response to your crossword. Must make all that hard work seem worthwhile.
I received 8 entries in total - I won't deny that I was hoping for at least a couple more. I'll definitely do another one some time though.

Phil
Based on the degree of difficulty (nearly as hard as TheTimes on some days + plus some curved ball clues), my prediction was that you would get about 5 correct entries, so I think you have done well to get 8 responses with almost 7 correct entries, barring Chris's typo, and exceeded that prediction.

So don't feel too despondent - Remember that only those who were confident of having a correct entry will have sent it in and you would have given a lot of entertainment to those that didn't complete it.

I am eagerly looking forward to your next one, whether or not there is a prize attached.

Cheers! Al.

Chris Corby · Post by **Chris Corby** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:37 am

Phil Reynolds wrote: I received 8 entries in total - I won't deny that I was hoping for at least a couple more.

This post has been censored by the moderator

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:58 am

Thanks for that Al. Don't worry, though - I'm not at all despondent! Enough people have commented on how much they enjoyed the puzzle to have made it more than worthwhile.

Chris: go to the naughty step.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:06 pm

Chris Corby wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote: I received 8 entries in total - I won't deny that I was hoping for at least a couple more.

This post has been censored by the moderator

lol

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:57 pm

Chris Corby wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote: I received 8 entries in total - I won't deny that I was hoping for at least a couple more.

This post has been censored by the moderator

Funniest post of the week! I bet the Corby family are a delight to stay with...

Chris Corby · Post by **Chris Corby** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:06 pm

OK Kirky, you're invited

I'll get Carstairs to make you up a bed at Corby Towers

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:57 am

Blimey, I thought I'd commented on this already.

I didn't enter for 1 reason - I kind of forgot to solve it.

Clue surface readings are very nice, and the problems with getting answers for the grid has been documented and is the bane of any crossword compiler, but "18a Unsophisticated backwater (5)" has got my spidey senses tingling. If I was a crossword editor I'd reject it I'm afraid. It would be grossly unfair to use "Comprehend" as an indicator for the letter H (as in "Compreh end") and I can't really see any difference with "Backwater".

I complained to Dinos when he used a similar device in the draft of one of his clues. No, I'm not saying which one (yet).

I am impressed overall though, KUTGW.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:46 am

Thanks Gary - I'm learning all the time and your comments are useful. I'm glad you liked the surface readings - I think getting those right is, for me, the most satisfying part of the whole task.

Gary Male wrote:I am impressed overall though, KUTGW.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:58 am

KUTGW = Keep Up The Good Work, presumably.

I thought the clue was ace by the way. I don't like the "but, but, crossword conventions!" cry, if the clue makes sense, that's good enough for me, and that one was a doozy. I'm sure I've seen BACKWARD = DRAW in a crossword anyway.

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:06 am

Jon Corby wrote:KUTGW = Keep Up The Good Work, presumably.

Yep

Jon Corby wrote:I thought the clue was ace by the way. I don't like the "but, but, crossword conventions!" cry, if the clue makes sense, that's good enough for me, and that one was a doozy. I'm sure I've seen BACKWARD = DRAW in a crossword anyway.

And "indeed!" to mean "take what you've worked our so far and put it in the middle of "de ... ed" is as hackneyed as it comes. Ovbiously in this sort of arena not having strictly Ximenean clues is fine but I'd like to see an exclamation mark or something just to show the setter is being a little bit crafty with the rules.

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:14 am

Thinking about it, if that clue was sent to the Guardian they'd probably accept it, but they're more known for creative interpretations of the conventions.

Ralph Gillions · Post by **Ralph Gillions** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:26 pm

As a Guardian crossword I am not too worried about sticking to the tablets-of-stone rules.
I rather like the creative (and often humorous) clues beloved of such compilers as Araucaria.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:29 pm

Ralph Gillions wrote:As a Guardian crossword I am not too worried about sticking to the tablets-of-stone rules.

You're a Guardian crossword? Why didn't you mention this before?!

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:30 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Ralph Gillions wrote:As a Guardian crossword I am not too worried about sticking to the tablets-of-stone rules.
You're a Guardian crossword? Why didn't you mention this before?!

Maybe he was too down?

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:34 pm

Jon Corby wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
Ralph Gillions wrote:As a Guardian crossword I am not too worried about sticking to the tablets-of-stone rules.
You're a Guardian crossword? Why didn't you mention this before?!
Maybe he was too down?

corby.kudos ++

Ralph Gillions · Post by **Ralph Gillions** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:42 pm

I've struggled to find a witty riposte, but can't.
You 2 guys appear on television showing how smart you are with words,
whereas I just leave 'em out!
**smile**