Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Discuss anything interesting but not remotely Countdown-related here.

Moderator: Jon O'Neill

Paul Worsley
Enthusiast
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Paul Worsley »

Marc Meakin wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:16 pm The Bends is a much better album than OK Computer even though it's always ranked in below it
I don't think that is an unpopular opinion at all. Most people I know prefer The Bends.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Paul Worsley wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 2:27 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:16 pm The Bends is a much better album than OK Computer even though it's always ranked in below it
I don't think that is an unpopular opinion at all. Most people I know prefer The Bends.
Across the pond they dont
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1797
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Mark James »

Paul Worsley wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 2:27 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:16 pm The Bends is a much better album than OK Computer even though it's always ranked in below it
I don't think that is an unpopular opinion at all. Most people I know prefer The Bends.
Same. Most people I know prefer The Bends.

Also, if you are over 30 and still worrying about album ranking lists you should examine what you're doing with your life.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Mark James wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 4:24 pm
Paul Worsley wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 2:27 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 1:16 pm The Bends is a much better album than OK Computer even though it's always ranked in below it
I don't think that is an unpopular opinion at all. Most people I know prefer The Bends.
Same. Most people I know prefer The Bends.

Also, if you are over 30 and still worrying about album ranking lists you should examine what you're doing with your life.
I disagree.
Old people in the 80s went window shopping when they were bored.
Old people nowadays spend free time window shopping and generally viewing shit content online
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Elliott Mellor
Devotee
Posts: 948
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Elliott Mellor »

Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 6:41 am
Mark James wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 4:24 pm
Paul Worsley wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 2:27 pm

I don't think that is an unpopular opinion at all. Most people I know prefer The Bends.
Same. Most people I know prefer The Bends.

Also, if you are over 30 and still worrying about album ranking lists you should examine what you're doing with your life.
I disagree.
Old people in the 80s went window shopping when they were bored.
Old people nowadays spend free time window shopping and generally viewing shit content online
You're very wrong with this generalisation (though you give the impression that you live in your own insular world). It might be hard to believe, but the vast majority of the old people I know actually have hobbies and spend their time doing productive things.
Tal Lessner
Rookie
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Tal Lessner »

Goldfinger & Thunderball, probably the two most successful Bond films, should be banned for glorifying rape. (And I don't mean just the general Bond misogynistic rape culture, I mean outright rape).
By banned I don't mean making it illegal to view, only that no streaming service / tv channel should ever show this.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Elliott Mellor wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 8:15 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 6:41 am
Mark James wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 4:24 pm

Same. Most people I know prefer The Bends.

Also, if you are over 30 and still worrying about album ranking lists you should examine what you're doing with your life.
I disagree.
Old people in the 80s went window shopping when they were bored.
Old people nowadays spend free time window shopping and generally viewing shit content online
You're very wrong with this generalisation (though you give the impression that you live in your own insular world). It might be hard to believe, but the vast majority of the old people I know actually have hobbies and spend their time doing productive things.
Sorry couldn't find the flippant emoji
Most old people I know are still working (maybe we need to clearly define what your definition of old is )
I also have hobbies but I can still idle away my time on internet from time to time
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 9:30 am Goldfinger & Thunderball, probably the two most successful Bond films, should be banned for glorifying rape. (And I don't mean just the general Bond misogynistic rape culture, I mean outright rape).
By banned I don't mean making it illegal to view, only that no streaming service / tv channel should ever show this.
Not without a viewers discretion message.
BTW don't watch Irreversible or Straw Dogs
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Tal Lessner
Rookie
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Tal Lessner »

Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 9:48 am
Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 9:30 am Goldfinger & Thunderball, probably the two most successful Bond films, should be banned for glorifying rape. (And I don't mean just the general Bond misogynistic rape culture, I mean outright rape).
By banned I don't mean making it illegal to view, only that no streaming service / tv channel should ever show this.
Not without a viewers discretion message.
BTW don't watch Irreversible or Straw Dogs
I don't mind (I even prefer) films that require viewer discretion due to violence, sex, language etc.
But I don't think anybody should commercially broadcast a film where the day is saved because the baddie turned good after she falls for her rapist.

Also, I saw Straw Dogs (albeit almost 20 years ago), from what I remember it's hard to watch, very controversial, but and I don't remember it giving a message of "Rape is great" like Goldfinger. Though I could be wrong here, since I don't remember it well enough and I actually liked Goldfinger 20-30 years ago.

Edit, just because I don't think my point was clear. I don't think films depicting rape should be banned, even when it's very graphical. My problem with the two films I mentioned (especially Goldfinger) is the way it's depicted. The girl rejects Bond, he still goes for it, she fights him off, and then it's all very casual (even with comical sound effects), he overpowers her on a haystack, and it's all rosy and beautiful once he's done raping. That's my problem here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
Fiona T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1537
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:54 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Fiona T »

Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 10:00 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 9:48 am
Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 9:30 am Goldfinger & Thunderball, probably the two most successful Bond films, should be banned for glorifying rape. (And I don't mean just the general Bond misogynistic rape culture, I mean outright rape).
By banned I don't mean making it illegal to view, only that no streaming service / tv channel should ever show this.
Not without a viewers discretion message.
BTW don't watch Irreversible or Straw Dogs
I don't mind (I even prefer) films that require viewer discretion due to violence, sex, language etc.
But I don't think anybody should commercially broadcast a film where the day is saved because the baddie turned good after she falls for her rapist.

Also, I saw Straw Dogs (albeit almost 20 years ago), from what I remember it's hard to watch, very controversial, but and I don't remember it giving a message of "Rape is great" like Goldfinger. Though I could be wrong here, since I don't remember it well enough and I actually liked Goldfinger 20-30 years ago.

Edit, just because I don't think my point was clear. I don't think films depicting rape should be banned, even when it's very graphical. My problem with the two films I mentioned (especially Goldfinger) is the way it's depicted. The girl rejects Bond, he still goes for it, she fights him off, and then it's all very casual (even with comical sound effects), he overpowers her on a haystack, and it's all rosy and beautiful once he's done raping. That's my problem here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
Yeah I felt similarly uncomfortable when watching the Rocky Horror show last year. I don't think the issue of (non)consent even registered when I first watched it years ago.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 10:00 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 9:48 am
Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 9:30 am Goldfinger & Thunderball, probably the two most successful Bond films, should be banned for glorifying rape. (And I don't mean just the general Bond misogynistic rape culture, I mean outright rape).
By banned I don't mean making it illegal to view, only that no streaming service / tv channel should ever show this.
Not without a viewers discretion message.
BTW don't watch Irreversible or Straw Dogs
I don't mind (I even prefer) films that require viewer discretion due to violence, sex, language etc.
But I don't think anybody should commercially broadcast a film where the day is saved because the baddie turned good after she falls for her rapist.

Also, I saw Straw Dogs (albeit almost 20 years ago), from what I remember it's hard to watch, very controversial, but and I don't remember it giving a message of "Rape is great" like Goldfinger. Though I could be wrong here, since I don't remember it well enough and I actually liked Goldfinger 20-30 years ago.

Edit, just because I don't think my point was clear. I don't think films depicting rape should be banned, even when it's very graphical. My problem with the two films I mentioned (especially Goldfinger) is the way it's depicted. The girl rejects Bond, he still goes for it, she fights him off, and then it's all very casual (even with comical sound effects), he overpowers her on a haystack, and it's all rosy and beautiful once he's done raping. That's my problem here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
Don't get me started on Pepe Le Pue
Also Bladerunner but as she is a replicant maybe she don't count
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Tal Lessner
Rookie
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Tal Lessner »

Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 12:32 pm Don't get me started on Pepe Le Pue
Also Bladerunner but as she is a replicant maybe she don't count
Pepe le Pew is a caricature on predatory behaviour
The Blade Runner scene is made in a way to make the viewer uncomfortable and be perfectly aware it's fucked up.
Irreversible (read a bit about it) & Straw Dogs deal with the aftermath of brutal rapes

Goldfinger & Thunderball are neither of these. They depict the violent side of the rape as non existent / comical, and the raped women as lucky to be seduced and raped by the charming James Bond. With absolutely no irony or cringe intention. Just glorified, beautiful, family entertainment rapes.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 12:56 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 12:32 pm Don't get me started on Pepe Le Pue
Also Bladerunner but as she is a replicant maybe she don't count
Pepe le Pew is a caricature on predatory behaviour
The Blade Runner scene is made in a way to make the viewer uncomfortable and be perfectly aware it's fucked up.
Irreversible (read a bit about it) & Straw Dogs deal with the aftermath of brutal rapes

Goldfinger & Thunderball are neither of these. They depict the violent side of the rape as non existent / comical, and the raped women as lucky to be seduced and raped by the charming James Bond. With absolutely no irony or cringe intention. Just glorified, beautiful, family entertainment rapes.
Fwiw in the sixties there was a popular trope of the 3 fs
Flirt , fight then luck.
James bond movies did this with the aforementioned films.
It doesn't make it right but Hollywood likes to play up to the audiences.

In a similar way that crap newspapers like The Sun and The Mail exist because people buy it , I don't remember much outcry at these movies at the time.
Obviously we have moved on but when I watched these movies as a kid I didn't see anything rapey probably because there was no terror
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Fiona T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1537
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:54 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Fiona T »

Marc Meakin wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 5:58 am
Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 12:56 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 12:32 pm Don't get me started on Pepe Le Pue
Also Bladerunner but as she is a replicant maybe she don't count
Pepe le Pew is a caricature on predatory behaviour
The Blade Runner scene is made in a way to make the viewer uncomfortable and be perfectly aware it's fucked up.
Irreversible (read a bit about it) & Straw Dogs deal with the aftermath of brutal rapes

Goldfinger & Thunderball are neither of these. They depict the violent side of the rape as non existent / comical, and the raped women as lucky to be seduced and raped by the charming James Bond. With absolutely no irony or cringe intention. Just glorified, beautiful, family entertainment rapes.
Obviously we have moved on but when I watched these movies as a kid I didn't see anything rapey probably because there was no terror
But that's exactly the problem. Rape doesn't have to be in a dark alley at knifepoint. This sort of stuff sends the message that "no doesn't really mean no", and that wasn't a good message then, and is definitely a very bad message today.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Fiona T wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 12:16 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 5:58 am
Tal Lessner wrote: Sun May 05, 2024 12:56 pm

Pepe le Pew is a caricature on predatory behaviour
The Blade Runner scene is made in a way to make the viewer uncomfortable and be perfectly aware it's fucked up.
Irreversible (read a bit about it) & Straw Dogs deal with the aftermath of brutal rapes

Goldfinger & Thunderball are neither of these. They depict the violent side of the rape as non existent / comical, and the raped women as lucky to be seduced and raped by the charming James Bond. With absolutely no irony or cringe intention. Just glorified, beautiful, family entertainment rapes.
Obviously we have moved on but when I watched these movies as a kid I didn't see anything rapey probably because there was no terror
But that's exactly the problem. Rape doesn't have to be in a dark alley at knifepoint. This sort of stuff sends the message that "no doesn't really mean no", and that wasn't a good message then, and is definitely a very bad message today.
I think that anyone watching this nowadays and thinks that are the same people that kill people because of what they have seen on thmv or the movies.
Respecting women in the 21st century should be a given along with respecting everyone's serial orientation and religious preferences.

Apropos of nothing in particular I am so glad I'm not a hormonal teenager now , not that I ever took the lead with women
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Bond could have instead murdered her - sorry killed with his licence to kill - and it would have been fine of course.
Tal Lessner
Rookie
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Tal Lessner »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 2:17 pm Bond could have instead murdered her - sorry killed with his licence to kill - and it would have been fine of course.
My point is not about the morality of the actions in the film, but about depicting rape as a pleasant comical form of seduction.

And even by mid 60s moral/legal standards, these are rapes. The women refuse both verbally and physically.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Tal Lessner wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 7:53 am
Gavin Chipper wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 2:17 pm Bond could have instead murdered her - sorry killed with his licence to kill - and it would have been fine of course.
My point is not about the morality of the actions in the film, but about depicting rape as a pleasant comical form of seduction.

And even by mid 60s moral/legal standards, these are rapes. The women refuse both verbally and physically.
These films would never get made now.
But as a film enthusiast and sort of historian it would be wrong to ban them.
After the Hays Code was scrapped film makers were desperate to push boundaries.
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Philip A
Kiloposter
Posts: 1169
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Philip A »

Golf is better than cricket.

Cricket involves ball-hitting on the spot with one bat, whilst in golf every stroke (except from the tee) provides a different challenge depending on where the ball lies, with 14 clubs.
Series 78 Runner-up
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Philip A wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 9:34 pm Golf is better than cricket.

Cricket involves ball-hitting on the spot with one bat, whilst in golf every stroke (except from the tee) provides a different challenge depending on where the ball lies, with 14 clubs.
To play or watch ?
I think individual sport v teamsport is apples and pears.

I think facing a 90 mph cricket ball takes some courage BTW
I grew up watching cricket when headboards were for sissies.
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Philip A
Kiloposter
Posts: 1169
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Philip A »

Marc Meakin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 7:03 am
Philip A wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 9:34 pm Golf is better than cricket.

Cricket involves ball-hitting on the spot with one bat, whilst in golf every stroke (except from the tee) provides a different challenge depending on where the ball lies, with 14 clubs.
To play or watch ?
I think individual sport v teamsport is apples and pears.

I think facing a 90 mph cricket ball takes some courage BTW
I grew up watching cricket when headboards were for sissies.
Both to play and to watch.

Golf does have team events; The Ryder Cup is a terrific event and the support is obvious, plus golf courses are generally beautiful (and much quieter). They have tried to speed up the game too.

Cricket’s too pedestrian and too “fixed” for me, especially T20 and the TikTok-y nonsense that is The Hundred.
Series 78 Runner-up
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Philip A wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 9:24 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 7:03 am
Philip A wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 9:34 pm Golf is better than cricket.

Cricket involves ball-hitting on the spot with one bat, whilst in golf every stroke (except from the tee) provides a different challenge depending on where the ball lies, with 14 clubs.
To play or watch ?
I think individual sport v teamsport is apples and pears.

I think facing a 90 mph cricket ball takes some courage BTW
I grew up watching cricket when headboards were for sissies.
Both to play and to watch.

Golf does have team events; The Ryder Cup is a terrific event and the support is obvious, plus golf courses are generally beautiful (and much quieter). They have tried to speed up the game too.

Cricket’s too pedestrian and too “fixed” for me, especially T20 and the TikTok-y nonsense that is The Hundred.
Would like to see a golf equivalent of a T20.
Maybe 2 minutes per stroke
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
User avatar
Ian Volante
Postmaster General
Posts: 3978
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Ian Volante »

Tal Lessner wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 7:53 am
Gavin Chipper wrote: Mon May 06, 2024 2:17 pm Bond could have instead murdered her - sorry killed with his licence to kill - and it would have been fine of course.
My point is not about the morality of the actions in the film, but about depicting rape as a pleasant comical form of seduction.

And even by mid 60s moral/legal standards, these are rapes. The women refuse both verbally and physically.
I recently came across one of these scenes, assuming it's the same one, and my impression was that it was strong coercion; I paraphrase, "get in that bedroom or I'll knock your head off". I was amazed.
meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles
Tal Lessner
Rookie
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Tal Lessner »

Ian Volante wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 12:46 pm I recently came across one of these scenes, assuming it's the same one, and my impression was that it was strong coercion; I paraphrase, "get in that bedroom or I'll knock your head off". I was amazed.
I was referring to these two scenes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZGN1WQ_Ms
From Thunderball, on the first 40 seconds he already managed to put his hand on her, and force her to kiss him.
Skip forward to around 2:40 where he explains he'll get her fired if she doesn't, even then she says no.

But if that's not rapey enough because he doesn't use enough force, then the one from Goldfinger I've already posted here is 100% rape on screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88

There could be others, haven't watched most of these in 20 years.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Tal Lessner wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 2:40 pm
Ian Volante wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 12:46 pm I recently came across one of these scenes, assuming it's the same one, and my impression was that it was strong coercion; I paraphrase, "get in that bedroom or I'll knock your head off". I was amazed.
I was referring to these two scenes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZGN1WQ_Ms
From Thunderball, on the first 40 seconds he already managed to put his hand on her, and force her to kiss him.
Skip forward to around 2:40 where he explains he'll get her fired if she doesn't, even then she says no.

But if that's not rapey enough because he doesn't use enough force, then the one from Goldfinger I've already posted here is 100% rape on screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88

There could be others, haven't watched most of these in 20 years.
100% sexual assault but rape , I don't think we can assume sex took place unless .
I'm playing devil's advocate I know but I get your point
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

It's time to means test the NHS and give tax breaks for those who go private and make private health care contributions to be made compulsory for any full time workers like private pensions are now.

BTW this should be a popular opinion
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Tal Lessner
Rookie
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Tal Lessner »

Single-payer healthcare is the basic for a somewhat functioning healthcare system where working-class and poor people can still get the healthcare they need.

Want to pay for a private one as well? Go ahead, but no tax breaks on the national health taxes (And I pay for a private health insurance, so I would benefit from your idea in my country)

Yours should remain as unpopular as possible opinion
Christy Cooper
Rookie
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:43 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Christy Cooper »

Marc Meakin wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 3:12 pm
Tal Lessner wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 2:40 pm
Ian Volante wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 12:46 pm I recently came across one of these scenes, assuming it's the same one, and my impression was that it was strong coercion; I paraphrase, "get in that bedroom or I'll knock your head off". I was amazed.
I was referring to these two scenes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZGN1WQ_Ms
From Thunderball, on the first 40 seconds he already managed to put his hand on her, and force her to kiss him.
Skip forward to around 2:40 where he explains he'll get her fired if she doesn't, even then she says no.

But if that's not rapey enough because he doesn't use enough force, then the one from Goldfinger I've already posted here is 100% rape on screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88

There could be others, haven't watched most of these in 20 years.
100% sexual assault but rape , I don't think we can assume sex took place unless .
I'm playing devil's advocate I know but I get your point
Thankfully, I haven’t really seen female rape played for laughs in media, but it happens a lot with male rape- https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... maleOnMale - I wonder if that’s because of the stereotype that “men like getting raped”?
Christy Cooper
Rookie
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:43 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Christy Cooper »

People can still be friends with somebody who has differing politics to them- political tribalism that’s ever so prevalent in this country at the moment harms everyone.

I hate the Tories- let’s be honest- but I find they’re more willing to discuss topics with those of opposing viewpoints than the left are. Tribalism has infiltrated the left- there’s tribalism on the right too but at least they’re willing to *discuss* topics and have a conversation with those outside their own tribe. The modern left leaves no room for nuance.
Martin Hurst
Series 75 Champion
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:50 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Martin Hurst »

Christy Cooper wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:02 pm People can still be friends with somebody who has differing politics to them- political tribalism that’s ever so prevalent in this country at the moment harms everyone.

I hate the Tories- let’s be honest- but I find they’re more willing to discuss topics with those of opposing viewpoints than the left are. Tribalism has infiltrated the left- there’s tribalism on the right too but at least they’re willing to *discuss* topics and have a conversation with those outside their own tribe. The modern left leaves no room for nuance.
In the old days (god I sound old) someone's political views were only a very minor part of their persona - now it seems to define everything about a person. I don't remember having one discussion in my years at Uni about politics apart from when John Prescott chinned that bell-end who threw an egg at him. Everyone just got along.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Martin Hurst wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:18 pm
Christy Cooper wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:02 pm People can still be friends with somebody who has differing politics to them- political tribalism that’s ever so prevalent in this country at the moment harms everyone.

I hate the Tories- let’s be honest- but I find they’re more willing to discuss topics with those of opposing viewpoints than the left are. Tribalism has infiltrated the left- there’s tribalism on the right too but at least they’re willing to *discuss* topics and have a conversation with those outside their own tribe. The modern left leaves no room for nuance.
In the old days (god I sound old) someone's political views were only a very minor part of their persona - now it seems to define everything about a person. I don't remember having one discussion in my years at Uni about politics apart from when John Prescott chinned that bell-end who threw an egg at him. Everyone just got along.
I have many friends with different politics though I doubt I could marry a Tory (so far so good 2 x Labour supporters ) though.
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Christy Cooper
Rookie
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:43 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Christy Cooper »

Martin Hurst wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:18 pm
Christy Cooper wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:02 pm People can still be friends with somebody who has differing politics to them- political tribalism that’s ever so prevalent in this country at the moment harms everyone.

I hate the Tories- let’s be honest- but I find they’re more willing to discuss topics with those of opposing viewpoints than the left are. Tribalism has infiltrated the left- there’s tribalism on the right too but at least they’re willing to *discuss* topics and have a conversation with those outside their own tribe. The modern left leaves no room for nuance.
In the old days (god I sound old) someone's political views were only a very minor part of their persona - now it seems to define everything about a person. I don't remember having one discussion in my years at Uni about politics apart from when John Prescott chinned that bell-end who threw an egg at him. Everyone just got along.
I blame social media- I’m only 20 but I do feel social media has radicalised people into their own echo chambers and if you vary slightly from the status quo, you’re viewed as a bigot. There’s lots of fearmongering from both sides of the aisle. I was on social media from the age of 11 (yes, I know that’s too young- that’s when I started secondary school and it was a way to communicate with my friends back then) and it used to be an escape from the realities of the world- now it’s just a reminder of them.

Maybe it’s just that I’m older now that I’m noticing the political talk more now? There’s no escape from it.
Christy Cooper
Rookie
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:43 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Christy Cooper »

There’s nothing wrong with being centrist- blind allegiance to the tribe is ridiculous- it means you ignore your own party’s faults and zone in the opposition’s faults; and it can sometimes lead to you praising your own party for something you’d condemn the opposite one for.

Free speech and hate speech are different.The excessively “woke”, and the excessively “anti-woke” are two sides of the same coin. I’m not the biggest fan of censorship but I think if somebody is posting things like death/rape threats or wishing harm on an entire community/subset of people; or celebrating death/harm, that they should be banned and censored.

However, where we get to the blurry line is about bigoted views… it feels like a new thing is being described as “racist”, “sexist”, “homophobic” each day… air conditioning is sexist. Wearing braids in your hair is racist. Saying that you don’t want to go to Pride is seen as homophobic. If you’re concerned about somebody’s weight/health, that’s seen as fat-shaming.

We throw the term “bigotry” around so often that it’s become sanitised and lost its meaning…. and I actually think it makes it difficult for employers sometimes- they check your social media to make sure you’ve not said anything offensive… but there’ll be some people who say simply saying “good morning” is racist- should an employer penalize somebody for that?

Could you penalize somebody for having political views the complete opposite of your own because you view their views as offensive? If you supported the monarchy, and the employer didn’t, could they penalise you because they think you’re supporting a bigoted institution? If you were anti-monarchy and the employer was a hardcore monarchist, could they penalise you because you’re against it? If you believe there’s only 2 genders (10 years ago it was unthinkable to say anything else… I still believe in trans rights and everything- I just think transition is when you transition from one of the two genders, to the other), could an employer choose not to hire you because they think what you’ve said is transphobic? If you eat meat and the person hiring is a vegan could they choose not to hire you because they think you’re endorsing animal cruelty? If you think misandry exists, could somebody penalize you for it because they think saying that makes you misogynistic?

To put it simply, could you be penalised for not subscribing to groupthink? Or even for belonging to the “wrong” echo chamber?

Funnily enough, the worst echo chambers and the worst of the “woke” that I’ve seen is in autism groups. I’m autistic myself, and I will happily call our any ableism that I see, I believe we deserved equal opportunities… but dear Lord, these groups I’ve seen. “You used the phrase flying monkeys- you must be a racist” (genuine comment I’ve seen- it’s a Wizard of Oz reference ffs), “you don’t put your pronouns in your bio- omg you homophobic transphobe”, “you’re not boycotting any Israeli companies- why are you endorsing a genocide?” (funny that a lot of them say this on social media platforms that fund Israel- they don’t realise the irony… I’m not pro-Israel myself, I don’t particularly have any stance on the war other than I’m sad that children are dying- it’s just interesting that these people are so hypocritical about boycotting any companies with Israeli operations, and then they’ll use Twitter, a site with Israeli operations), “omg we should band together to kill all men” (I wish that last one was an exaggeration… I’ve seen the same people celebrate the male suicide rate too and wish for it to increase- as a guy that’s had significant mental health problems before, those comments just *piss me off*- find it even odder when there’s other men cheering them on)… honestly they get on my nerves so much- but then me getting offended by these people, kind of turns me into one of them I suppose.

And then there’s the “anti-woke” who are just as bad as the woke- “how dare gay people exist and are depicted in media- marriage should be between a man and a woman only”; “the US election was rigged- we didn’t get the result we wanted so it must be rigged”, “women shouldn’t vote”, “black people are guilty until proven innocent”- I even saw some of them say that (and this is disgusting) that George Floyd “deserved to die” which is a very very hateful viewpoint.

These bizarre “culture wars” harm everybody.
Matt Rutherford
Acolyte
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:41 pm
Location: Birmingham's Eastern Fleapit

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Matt Rutherford »

Marc Meakin wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 11:26 am It's time to means test the NHS and give tax breaks for those who go private and make private health care contributions to be made compulsory for any full time workers like private pensions are now.

BTW this should be a popular opinion
And begin heading in the same direction as the United States. Absolutely not. Take one look over there and see the multitude of stories.

Simpler solution-tax the rich properly and fund what we have now properly. The last 14 years (possibly longer) have been an exercise in trying to slowly kill the NHS off.

Any policy as expressed in that view should be resisted. The NHS has been broken, on purpose, to try and convince us of daft and dangerous ideas like this
The Vicar of Dudley*

*(Not ordained, nor do I live Dudley. Godspeed!)
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

I think paying for a face to face with GP would ensure no appointments are missed.
Obviously you should get your money back if you turn up
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I do agree with some of what Christy is saying. I don't think not being centrist means you belong to a tribe though. Centrist basically means you have fairly average political opinions on most subjects I would say. Someone can be described as left or right, but have nothing to do with tribal thinking.

That said, I don't think they're very useful terms if we want to describe someone's politics in any detail. I've said this before, but so many completely unrelated things are lumped into left and right that they become meaningless. Apparently being left means you want higher taxes on rich people, are more concerned about global warming and are also more pro-abortion. Well, I can't see a connection.

But then people do get tribal about it and end up having to have the "correct" stance for their "left" or "right" position on every stance rather than thinking about each issue in its own right.

As much as someone would categorise me as left or right, I would definitely be left, but I definitely don't subscribe to every view that some people consider to be the left one. One thing that annoys me is when people seem to think it's OK to redress e.g. racism against black people or sexism against women by being racist/sexist in the other direction. Using words like "boomer", "gammon, "mansplaining" and the rest do not help your cause. It's just more lazy prejudice but thrown in a different direction. And saying that people who talk about International Men's Day are somehow sexist is pretty stupid too. Just let them have it. It doesn't need to be a competition.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Blackadder Goes Forth is not as good as 2 or 3. That one single scene at the end does not elevate the entire series above the others.
Tal Lessner
Rookie
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 am

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Tal Lessner »

Blackadder Goes Forth is in my opinion the best Series of any TV show ever. And the finale is the best non football related thing ever broadcast on tv.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:14 pm Blackadder Goes Forth is not as good as 2 or 3. That one single scene at the end does not elevate the entire series above the others.
I hated season 1 but season 2 was by far the best .
Not a duff episode.
Season 3 was a bit hit and miss and 4 was meh apart from the poignant last episode.
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

For me it's probably 3, 2, 4, 1. I think 3 has the best and most memorable episodes. 1 is still good but hit and miss.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

:roll:
Gavin Chipper wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:35 pm For me it's probably 3, 2, 4, 1. I think 3 has the best and most memorable episodes. 1 is still good but hit and miss.
Disagree with you on that , they got the dynamic right rather than in series one where he is an idiot
Most of the most quotable episodes are in season 2.
Stephen Fry and Miranda Richardson are having a great time here
Season 3 had its moments though especially the Doctor Johnson episode.

Favourite episode is either Beer or Bob
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

My single favourite episode of Blackadder comes from series 3 - Nob and Nobility about revolutionary France and the Scarlet Pimpernel. I like the way it all comes together at the end.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:23 pm My single favourite episode of Blackadder comes from series 3 - Nob and Nobility about revolutionary France and the Scarlet Pimpernel. I like the way it all comes together at the end.
That's the best episode of Season 3
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Paul Worsley
Enthusiast
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:51 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Paul Worsley »

Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:14 am VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
Screw that
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Paul Worsley wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:19 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:14 am VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
Screw that
I think the genie is out of the bottle with VAR it just needs to be used properly.
I'm a proud England supporter but Saka handles the ball before Kane won the pen.
And before that fantastic willing goal itshould have been a corner not a goal kick.
Sliding door moment if England's 3rd goal was ruled out in 1966 it may have gone to a replay or maybe Pens
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1797
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Mark James »

I don't think Saka did handle it but it's never a pen for me. It's a genuine attempt to block the ball and kane follows through and hits him. I keep seeing people say it happens all the time in other parts of the pitch and a free is given but they never give an example. If it happens all the time surely you should be able to show an example. I'm not doubting that it does happen but just pick one of those many times it does happen and go, "see".
Elliott Mellor
Devotee
Posts: 948
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Elliott Mellor »

Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:14 am VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
And slow the game down even more than it already has been? It's just turning subjective decisions in to even slower subjective decisions for the most part. How can it be thought of as a decent system if penalties are still being awarded for theatrics such as Kane's? His acting was so impressive that it would have made Ronaldo proud.

I'm bored rigid of the "potential offside" checks. There should be a degree of tolerance to me - disallowing goals because the player was offside by a millimetre is going to deter players from attempting good runs in case the wind blows their hair further forward than the next to last defender.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Elliott Mellor wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:41 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:14 am VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
And slow the game down even more than it already has been? It's just turning subjective decisions in to even slower subjective decisions for the most part. How can it be thought of as a decent system if penalties are still being awarded for theatrics such as Kane's? His acting was so impressive that it would have made Ronaldo proud.


I'm bored rigid of the "potential offside" checks. There should be a degree of tolerance to me - disallowing goals because the player was offside by a millimetre is going to deter players from attempting good runs in case the wind blows their hair further forward than the next to last defender.
Let' me make it clear I hate VAR and we should never have introduced it
I hate sports judged on opinions Like Diving , Ice Skating etc
Cricket started it with third umpire and Snickometer etc.

Football is the worst sport to have interventions to check things it has very little natural breaks (half times and injuries aside ) .
Fans are scared to cheer for a goal because until VAR gives you the OK you cannot be sure.
Hawk eye and goal line technology is good as its infallible but I would prefer VAR was banned.
But if you do use it and make Soccer more like American football then you may as well go the whole hog and check everything
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Biden should be re-elected and then immediately resign and hand it over to vice president Trump....er I mean Harris
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Marc Meakin wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:54 am
Elliott Mellor wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:41 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:14 am VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
And slow the game down even more than it already has been? It's just turning subjective decisions in to even slower subjective decisions for the most part. How can it be thought of as a decent system if penalties are still being awarded for theatrics such as Kane's? His acting was so impressive that it would have made Ronaldo proud.


I'm bored rigid of the "potential offside" checks. There should be a degree of tolerance to me - disallowing goals because the player was offside by a millimetre is going to deter players from attempting good runs in case the wind blows their hair further forward than the next to last defender.
Let' me make it clear I hate VAR and we should never have introduced it
I hate sports judged on opinions Like Diving , Ice Skating etc
Cricket started it with third umpire and Snickometer etc.

Football is the worst sport to have interventions to check things it has very little natural breaks (half times and injuries aside ) .
Fans are scared to cheer for a goal because until VAR gives you the OK you cannot be sure.
Hawk eye and goal line technology is good as its infallible but I would prefer VAR was banned.
But if you do use it and make Soccer more like American football then you may as well go the whole hog and check everything
A game that has such close scorelines and such subjective refereeing is always going to be a crapshoot. Knockout football is a spectacle, not a serious competition.
Philip A
Kiloposter
Posts: 1169
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:56 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Philip A »

Elliott Mellor wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:41 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:14 am VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
And slow the game down even more than it already has been? It's just turning subjective decisions in to even slower subjective decisions for the most part. How can it be thought of as a decent system if penalties are still being awarded for theatrics such as Kane's? His acting was so impressive that it would have made Ronaldo proud.

I'm bored rigid of the "potential offside" checks. There should be a degree of tolerance to me - disallowing goals because the player was offside by a millimetre is going to deter players from attempting good runs in case the wind blows their hair further forward than the next to last defender.
I have always said VAR offside should allow a margin of error.
Series 78 Runner-up
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

It's like having a margin of error for the speed limit. It makes no difference. The speed limit just becomes 73.987mph or whatever. 73.988 and it's 3 points on your licence. There's always going to be a cut-off point.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

:roll:
Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:27 pm It's like having a margin of error for the speed limit. It makes no difference. The speed limit just becomes 73.987mph or whatever. 73.988 and it's 3 points on your licence. There's always going to be a cut-off point.
AFAIK there is a magin of error with speed limits as yo have to go 10% over the speed limit for an automatic fine.
Unless it has changed
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Marc Meakin wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:59 pm :roll:
Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:27 pm It's like having a margin of error for the speed limit. It makes no difference. The speed limit just becomes 73.987mph or whatever. 73.988 and it's 3 points on your licence. There's always going to be a cut-off point.
AFAIK there is a magin of error with speed limits as yo have to go 10% over the speed limit for an automatic fine.
Unless it has changed
I thought that was an urban myth. But in any case it makes no difference. There has to be a hard cut-off with that and offside, so there will still be people penalised for being fractionally on the wrong side.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6477
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:40 pm
Marc Meakin wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:59 pm :roll:
Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:27 pm It's like having a margin of error for the speed limit. It makes no difference. The speed limit just becomes 73.987mph or whatever. 73.988 and it's 3 points on your licence. There's always going to be a cut-off point.
AFAIK there is a magin of error with speed limits as yo have to go 10% over the speed limit for an automatic fine.
Unless it has changed
I thought that was an urban myth. But in any case it makes no difference. There has to be a hard cut-off with that and offside, so there will still be people penalised for being fractionally on the wrong side.
If they make the drawn lines twice as thick it will create a small margin of error
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Elliott Mellor
Devotee
Posts: 948
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Elliott Mellor »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:27 pm It's like having a margin of error for the speed limit. It makes no difference. The speed limit just becomes 73.987mph or whatever. 73.988 and it's 3 points on your licence. There's always going to be a cut-off point.
It's not quite the same thing. Your speed is something you can easily monitor yourself and so it's easy to avoid going over a limit. Offside/onside isn't something a player can really judge to the fractionality that VAR does and that's why I don't think they should be penalised for something extremely marginal that makes no difference.

Also, there *is* a margin of error with speed limit, as Marc pointed out.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13444
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Gavin Chipper »

None of that changes anything. Whatever margin you decide is allowable becomes the limit. You can't get rid of extremely marginal decisions.

What do you mean it makes no difference? You can just say every extra centimetre doesn't make a difference until there's no offside possible.
Elliott Mellor
Devotee
Posts: 948
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Elliott Mellor »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:51 pm None of that changes anything. Whatever margin you decide is allowable becomes the limit. You can't get rid of extremely marginal decisions.

What do you mean it makes no difference? You can just say every extra centimetre doesn't make a difference until there's no offside possible.
Sure, I'm just in favour of changing that margin so that it's a bit easier for players to judge if they are likely to be offside. I know that will mean there is a hard limit at some point, I'm not suggesting it doesn't.
Matt Rutherford
Acolyte
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:41 pm
Location: Birmingham's Eastern Fleapit

Re: Unpopular opinions you genuinely hold

Post by Matt Rutherford »

Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:14 am VAR should be used for more contentious decisions like corners/goalkicks
Ball going out of play for throw ins etc
Bookings for simulation
Even if it means more stoppages
Yes, please. And get VAR to the EFL as well.

There are rules there, and it helps enforce them. Get rid of VAR, and you'll still have complaints about refereeing decisions. Standards need to improve, but they'll always be some subjectivity, because it involves humans.

Also, this whole 'you can't celebrate a goal, it ruins the experience.' No, it adds to the tension. Villa away at West Ham, Thomas Soucek had a last-minute goal disallowed-it was genuinely tense, and the relief was palpable when it was disallowed. Same for when Lille had an equalizer ruled out in the home Conference League QF tie.

More correct decisions are being made. If the marginal offsides are irking people, then tweak the rule. VAR helps keep the rules in check-standards need improving yes, but it needs to stay.

(I'm just going to go and seal my letterbox before half the world queues up to widdle in it)
The Vicar of Dudley*

*(Not ordained, nor do I live Dudley. Godspeed!)
Post Reply