Politics in General

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Rhys Benjamin
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 12:09 pm In the other news, Conservative Alan Duncan has gone rogue in an LBC interview, calling out members of the Conservative party for supporting Israel, and is now under investigation from the party.
Nice way to whitewash antisemitism here. He suggested British Lords, one of whom is Jewish, were doing Israel's bidding. We were rightly appalled when leftists made that allegation against Luciana Berger and it is equally appalling here.

Not quite appalling as Owen Jones's latest brain rot though, which is that Germany are only supporting Israel because of the Holocaust.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:50 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 12:09 pm In the other news, Conservative Alan Duncan has gone rogue in an LBC interview, calling out members of the Conservative party for supporting Israel, and is now under investigation from the party.
Nice way to whitewash antisemitism here. He suggested British Lords, one of whom is Jewish, were doing Israel's bidding. We were rightly appalled when leftists made that allegation against Luciana Berger and it is equally appalling here.

Not quite appalling as Owen Jones's latest brain rot though, which is that Germany are only supporting Israel because of the Holocaust.
Why do you assume it's anti-Semitism? Maybe he thinks that's what they're doing. If only one of them is Jewish, it doesn't suggest he's singling out Jews.

Germany are one of Israel's biggest supporters and supplier of arms. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that the reasons are historic.

But in both cases and indeed many others, whether they are factually right or wrong, just throwing out the accusation of anti-Semitism is simplistic, dangerous to democracy, and a cheap way to try and shut down discussion.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Tal Lessner »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:50 pm Not quite appalling as Owen Jones's latest brain rot though, which is that Germany are only supporting Israel because of the Holocaust.
Why appalling? It's quite true
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Tal Lessner wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:20 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:50 pm Not quite appalling as Owen Jones's latest brain rot though, which is that Germany are only supporting Israel because of the Holocaust.
Why appalling? It's quite true
Lets be honest, Israel would not have the support it has if it wasn't for the collective guilt of the holocaust.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Amirite that all the 4 leaders of the home nations and also the Republic of Ireland were not elected by the people?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Marc Meakin wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 7:12 am Amirite that all the 4 leaders of the home nations and also the Republic of Ireland were not elected by the people?
We don't directly elect leaders though so I think it's less of a big deal than some people make out. It should be more about policies than personalities anyway.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Marc Meakin wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 7:12 am Amirite that all the 4 leaders of the home nations and also the Republic of Ireland were not elected by the people?
Well yes, that's how our systems work. We elect a local rep who then choose an overall leader from within their ranks.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Tal Lessner »

I wonder about the logic behind the UK system though, I'm all for a parliamentary system where parliament elects the head of government. But what's the point of the constituencies? How is it fair that a party get 43% of votes but 56% MP seats, or 12% of the votes and only 1.7% of the MPs?

I get the point of such system 100 years ago, without mass communication putting the trust in a local representative.
The % of parliament seats should reflect a parties total nationwide support.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Tal Lessner wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:00 pm I wonder about the logic behind the UK system though, I'm all for a parliamentary system where parliament elects the head of government. But what's the point of the constituencies? How is it fair that a party get 43% of votes but 56% MP seats, or 12% of the votes and only 1.7% of the MPs?

I get the point of such system 100 years ago, without mass communication putting the trust in a local representative.
The % of parliament seats should reflect a parties total nationwide support.
We are enteruming the whelms of AV or PR
Gevin and others have spoken of on this very forum
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

National level proportionality is hard to achieve without doing away with candidate-based voting. Democracy shouldn't just be about party brands. A compromise would be to have larger constituencies with five or six MPs to elect using a system like STV, which achieves PR without requiring candidates to stand for parties.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Tal Lessner »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:07 pm National level proportionality is hard to achieve without doing away with candidate-based voting. Democracy shouldn't just be about party brands. A compromise would be to have larger constituencies with five or six MPs to elect using a system like STV, which achieves PR without requiring candidates to stand for parties.
Why not the system they have in Germany for example. Having both constituency representatives, but then add more representatives from a national party list to meet the actual party voting ratio representation. This way each constituency has its representative in parliament, but the balance of power actually represents the parties' national vote rate.

edit: Meant a mechanism like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leveling_seat
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Ideally, I wouldn't want to have any votes/seats that are specifically for a party, but that kind of mechanism isn't necessary terrible depending on how it's done.

As I understand it, in Germany, they vote for a candidate and a party. Constituency candidates are still elected using First Past the Post and then the rest of the seats awarded to parties to make the result proportional overall.

FPTP is a pretty terrible system, but changing that part for another single-winner system wouldn't need to break the overall mechanism. The party vote is still vote-for-one as I understand it, so votes can still get wasted if someone supports a smaller party.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

I think come December or whenever Sunak decides to go to the country they will lose so many seats that they may try and get a groundswell going for in the future AV, the fib dems will back it too
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Re: Politics in General

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Marc Meakin wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:53 am I think come December or whenever Sunak decides to go to the country they will lose so many seats that they may try and get a groundswell going for in the future AV, the fib dems will back it too
The Lib Dems would be idiots to support AV (like they were last time) as they've supported PR forever, and AV is a poor substitute. Tories are unlikely to ever go for it, they know they'll be back soon enough.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Ian Volante wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:49 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:53 am I think come December or whenever Sunak decides to go to the country they will lose so many seats that they may try and get a groundswell going for in the future AV, the fib dems will back it too
The Lib Dems would be idiots to support AV (like they were last time) as they've supported PR forever, and AV is a poor substitute. Tories are unlikely to ever go for it, they know they'll be back soon enough.
I don't share your optimism (?) about the Tories coming back soon.
I have feeling that the labour landslide might put 1997 in the shade with Rishi and a few more high ranking cabinet members losing their seats.

I think there might be a split within the the Tories in a similar way Labour did during the forming of the SDP.
No doubt Boris might lead the "gang of 4"
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Labour winning but with Starmer losing his seat might work for me.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Marc Meakin wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 1:36 pm
Ian Volante wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:49 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:53 am I think come December or whenever Sunak decides to go to the country they will lose so many seats that they may try and get a groundswell going for in the future AV, the fib dems will back it too
The Lib Dems would be idiots to support AV (like they were last time) as they've supported PR forever, and AV is a poor substitute. Tories are unlikely to ever go for it, they know they'll be back soon enough.
I don't share your optimism (?) about the Tories coming back soon.
I have feeling that the labour landslide might put 1997 in the shade with Rishi and a few more high ranking cabinet members losing their seats.

I think there might be a split within the the Tories in a similar way Labour did during the forming of the SDP.
No doubt Boris might lead the "gang of 4"
The remaining chancers will do whatever they need to do to pick up the pieces after the clear-out. The current system weighs on an incumbent government, and it's a shitshow for the foreseeable; the new government will need to work out how to be radical/undo some of the policy failures of the last decade with what little resource is available, but should be able to blame the current lot for a while at least. The Tories will just have to find a leader the majority of their MPs actually wants to support; like twenty years ago, it took a while to get to that stage after Labour smooshed them in 1997.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:27 pm Is "brownface" or "blackface" intrinsically racist, or does intent and context matter?
Fast forward a few years, and David Harewood says go for it!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 12:38 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:27 pm Is "brownface" or "blackface" intrinsically racist, or does intent and context matter?
Fast forward a few years, and David Harewood says go for it!
Blackface in Shakespeare was much like men playing women's parts as women wernt allowed to act in those days and presumably black actors were not in abundance.
So I kinda disagree with blackface in this context but RDJ using blackface in Tropic Thunder is OK and was hilarious
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Marc Meakin wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 3:00 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 12:38 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:27 pm Is "brownface" or "blackface" intrinsically racist, or does intent and context matter?
Fast forward a few years, and David Harewood says go for it!
Blackface in Shakespeare was much like men playing women's parts as women wernt allowed to act in those days and presumably black actors were not in abundance.
So I kinda disagree with blackface in this context but RDJ using blackface in Tropic Thunder is OK and was hilarious
He appears to have changed his mind.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Graeme Cole »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:16 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 3:00 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 12:38 pm

Fast forward a few years, and David Harewood says go for it!
Blackface in Shakespeare was much like men playing women's parts as women wernt allowed to act in those days and presumably black actors were not in abundance.
So I kinda disagree with blackface in this context but RDJ using blackface in Tropic Thunder is OK and was hilarious
He appears to have changed his mind.
To some extent the original article's headline seems to have taken his quote out of context.

His quote ("I say, if you want to black it up, have at it, man. It’d better be good, or else you’re gonna get laughed off the stage. But knock yourself out!") was fairly described in the article as "Harewood said he would not have a problem with a white actor using blackface - but he also implied it would be unlikely to be successful or meet with today's audience expectations".

However, as is often the case with these things, the headline then slapped on the top of the article ("Harewood says actors should be allowed to use blackface") was an oversimplification, written for engagement and clicks rather than to provide a fair summary.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Elliott Mellor »

All the brouhaha about fake stamps at the moment seems like yet another instance of the Royal Mail failing to address the root cause of a problem.

If they really wanted to crackdown on this, instead of trying to fine the receiver £5, they could put a letter through asking them to contact the sender and ask where they got the stamp. Have an online portal where people can submit establishments that have sold fake stamps, and then target those establishments. Any place selling fake stamps then has to purchase all stamps directly from the Royal Mail.

Ideally everywhere would have to anyway, but implementing that would be logistically difficult at least in the short term.
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Re: Politics in General

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Looks good.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Mark James wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 12:34 pm https://x.com/CountBinface/status/1783807825182884270

You know what to do.
And here's his presence in a less toxic environment. https://mastodon.online/@CountBinface@mastodon.world
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Tal Lessner »

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-04-26/

Don't think this recent ICC development will help much, but hopefully will get some international (mostly American) pressure on this weak, crazy, easily pressured excuse of a leader to end the massacre in Gaza, reach a ceasefire agreement and return the hostages.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

There's an article on the BBC about falling birth rates and the problems it can cause. I wouldn't be surprised if next week there was an article about overpopulation. It's strange that these articles never seem to reference each other. Also there's the thing about AI taking over all our jobs. I think some joined up thinking in these articles could go a long way.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Philip A »

4th of July - General Election
Series 78 Runner-up
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Philip A wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:37 pm 4th of July - General Election
Isn't Wimbledon on then ?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Paul Worsley »

Marc Meakin wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 5:37 pm
Philip A wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:37 pm 4th of July - General Election
Isn't Wimbledon on then ?
Rishi has got more chance of winning that,
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Noel Mc »

Summer holidays where I am start on the 1st of July. I (and many many people, will be out of the country then.

Seems like no thought has been put in to the people of NI (shock horror!).

Obviously I can apply for a postal vote, but it's a bit annoying.


(in saying that, the last 8 MPs for my constituency have all been from the same party, with a mean % of about 63% of the vote. I normally like to exercise my right to vote in some way, but I feel I mightn't bother this time.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

It bodes well for England's chances in the football.
England last won a trophy during a Labour government.

I think Sunak chose this date as it can't get any better for him
If he went to December I could see the biggest landslide in history
I still think it could be a 150 plus majority
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Serious question
When do we get to see the manifestos?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Hurst »

Marc Meakin wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 9:10 am Serious question
When do we get to see the manifestos?
Usually a couple of weeks after parliament dissolves, so would expect them around 3 weeks from now.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Graeme Cole »

Marc Meakin wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 9:09 am It bodes well for England's chances in the football.
England last won a trophy during a Labour government.
*England women's team has left the chat*
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Graeme Cole wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 11:57 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 9:09 am It bodes well for England's chances in the football.
England last won a trophy during a Labour government.
*England women's team has left the chat*
Oops , should have used pronouns.
Though I could have got out of it by saying World Cup ;)
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Hurst »

Marc Meakin wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 1:16 pm
Graeme Cole wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 11:57 am
Marc Meakin wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 9:09 am It bodes well for England's chances in the football.
England last won a trophy during a Labour government.
*England women's team has left the chat*
Oops , should have used pronouns.
Though I could have got out of it by saying World Cup ;)
Ahhh, but then others might get offended on behalf of the England blow football, table football, underwater football and under 9s teams!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Watched Question time last night (live on Iplayer at 8pm)
Usual shite but one panelist did talk sense about War Criminals and how Netenyahoo (now you know why I say Benni ) being singled out without Putin the recently deceased leader of Iran being previously charged
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

In 2015 we had a poll for the general election, so it might be worth doing that again. I won't start a poll on whether to do a poll though. There was a separate thread as well but I think one thread with a poll should cover it.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 12:01 pm In 2015 we had a poll for the general election, so it might be worth doing that again. I won't start a poll on whether to do a poll though. There was a separate thread as well but I think one thread with a poll should cover it.
Will The Tories have less than two hundred seats.
That's my prediction
Edit , oh sorry I thought it was going to be a poll on seats.
It might be loaded though as I can't see many admitting they are voting tory :)
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Hurst »

Marc Meakin wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:26 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 12:01 pm In 2015 we had a poll for the general election, so it might be worth doing that again. I won't start a poll on whether to do a poll though. There was a separate thread as well but I think one thread with a poll should cover it.
Will The Tories have less than two hundred seats.
That's my prediction
Edit , oh sorry I thought it was going to be a poll on seats.
It might be loaded though as I can't see many admitting they are voting tory :)
The spread markets have the Tories on 169 seats at the moment (Labour on 396, though this is slightly down from 414 when the election was announced)
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