Track and Field (and Road) Athletics

[Phil H]

The other point about Kipchoge's run, if it's not too obvious to be worth saying, is that there wasn't anyone else in the race - the event literally only existed to try and get him below 2 hours.

I remember watching it live and I still think it's one of the best things I've seen in sport, but equally I don't think it's remotely comparable to a record set in a traditional competition.

[Gavin Chipper]

In other news, Dwain Chambers made the UK indoor championships 60m semi-finals at the age of 45! He has previously served a drugs ban of course.

And Josh Kerr beat the 2-mile indoor world record. It's "only" the indoor record obviously, but his time of 8:00.67 would be the 4th fastest time and 3rd person on the all-time list outdoors. It is, however, a non-standard event, so arguably the competition level is lower.

[Gavin Chipper]

Also Grant Holloway beat the 60m indoor hurdles record.

And an outdoors one - Letsile Tebogo beat the 300m world record with a time of 30.69, beating Wayde van Niekerk's 30.81 and Michael Johnson's 30.85, which was the record before that.

[Adam Gillard]

And on the high jump / pole vault thing, surely nowadays they could have a system of laser beams or something to measure the height you reach, so each jump is properly measured, rather than having to get over each set height!

Aye, but you can't ask people to jump over nothing. The bar provides a point in space to aim for, and tactile feedback, both crucial. I'd agree that the distance above the bar might also be measured by such a method, another way of doing this could be to have them jumping over a large pile of tiny bricks which would act in the same way as sand.

The long jump and triple jump are also pretty crude. Your jump is measured by the further back bit of sand that is disturbed I believe, but when you land, it must be pretty random how far backwards the disturbance goes. Lasers all round!

In this case, not falling backwards is part of the skill. It's easy to throw your feet way out in front of you, but there's not much point just measuring where they land if you're laying flat on your back afterwards. I'd suggest that the long jump can be seen as analogous to getting across a river, and where any of you hits the surface is crucial in that situation.

When it comes to long jump (and triple jump for those that consider it a non joke event) it would be nice if the measurement was from take off to landing.
Some big jumps were from before the plasticine mark

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/68345703

[Gavin Chipper]

That would be very interesting but by reducing the take-off gap to zero, it does kind of break old records. They do generally show the gap to the line nowadays anyway, but I don't know if they know the gaps for the old records of Mike Powell and Jonathan Edwards.

[Marc Meakin]

Aye, but you can't ask people to jump over nothing. The bar provides a point in space to aim for, and tactile feedback, both crucial. I'd agree that the distance above the bar might also be measured by such a method, another way of doing this could be to have them jumping over a large pile of tiny bricks which would act in the same way as sand.



In this case, not falling backwards is part of the skill. It's easy to throw your feet way out in front of you, but there's not much point just measuring where they land if you're laying flat on your back afterwards. I'd suggest that the long jump can be seen as analogous to getting across a river, and where any of you hits the surface is crucial in that situation.

When it comes to long jump (and triple jump for those that consider it a non joke event) it would be nice if the measurement was from take off to landing.
Some big jumps were from before the plasticine mark

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/68345703

Even though I'm all for records being broken but isn't the take off board part of the discipline and therefore levelling the playing field somewhat.
I mean Javelin throws are under the same type of problem, judging when to release.

[Marc Meakin]

That would be very interesting but by reducing the take-off gap to zero, it does kind of break old records. They do generally show the gap to the line nowadays anyway, but I don't know if they know the gaps for the old records of Mike Powell and Jonathan Edwards.

I agree that old records should be preserved and effectively a new discipline is created.
You could take it a srmtep further with other athletics events like doing away with false starts and measuring times from the blocks which could turn the 100 metres into a VAR situation where the athlete who crosses the line first maybe didn't actually 'win'

[Ian Volante]

I can fully understand why existing athletes are whinging about this idea, as they've practised for a long time to perfect the take-off. If it becomes just a long jump event rather than a long jump from as close to an arbitary line as possible, then it simply renders a lot of their work obsolete. Doesn't mean it's not a much better idea though.

I wonder if it might encourage more sprinters to double up again. Carl Lewis is the last person I remember being particularly successful at both.

[Marc Meakin]

I can fully understand why existing athletes are whinging about this idea, as they've practised for a long time to perfect the take-off. If it becomes just a long jump event rather than a long jump from as close to an arbitary line as possible, then it simply renders a lot of their work obsolete. Doesn't mean it's not a much better idea though.

I wonder if it might encourage more sprinters to double up again. Carl Lewis is the last person I remember being particularly successful at both.

I think his sister doubled up too.

Maybe they could use it for the Decathlon/Heptathlon first

[Gavin Chipper]

I can fully understand why existing athletes are whinging about this idea, as they've practised for a long time to perfect the take-off. If it becomes just a long jump event rather than a long jump from as close to an arbitary line as possible, then it simply renders a lot of their work obsolete. Doesn't mean it's not a much better idea though.

I wonder if it might encourage more sprinters to double up again. Carl Lewis is the last person I remember being particularly successful at both.

I agree it's probably better overall if you were starting from scratch. I'm not sure it would make that much difference to sprinters though. Of the skills required to double up as a long-jumper, I don't think being able to get near to the board is probably the most challenging.

[Gavin Chipper]

I can fully understand why existing athletes are whinging about this idea, as they've practised for a long time to perfect the take-off. If it becomes just a long jump event rather than a long jump from as close to an arbitary line as possible, then it simply renders a lot of their work obsolete. Doesn't mean it's not a much better idea though.

I wonder if it might encourage more sprinters to double up again. Carl Lewis is the last person I remember being particularly successful at both.

This would obviously be crazy!

I've said before though that an argument could be made for reducing all times by 0.1 seconds, as you're not allowed to start until that amount of time has elapsed, so it's effectively not part of the race.

But then it might technically be possible to win a race in -0.1 seconds. At the start, your fingers have to be behind the line, but at the finish it's some other part of your body that has to cross the line, so if you had a long enough body, you could already be across the finish line when the guns goes off.

[Ian Volante]

I can fully understand why existing athletes are whinging about this idea, as they've practised for a long time to perfect the take-off. If it becomes just a long jump event rather than a long jump from as close to an arbitary line as possible, then it simply renders a lot of their work obsolete. Doesn't mean it's not a much better idea though.

I wonder if it might encourage more sprinters to double up again. Carl Lewis is the last person I remember being particularly successful at both.

This would obviously be crazy!

I've said before though that an argument could be made for reducing all times by 0.1 seconds, as you're not allowed to start until that amount of time has elapsed, so it's effectively not part of the race.

But then it might technically be possible to win a race in -0.1 seconds. At the start, your fingers have to be behind the line, but at the finish it's some other part of your body that has to cross the line, so if you had a long enough body, you could already be across the finish line when the guns goes off.

This might be more relevant in races with a standing start. As it is, having the hands behind a line makes as much sense as anything. In longer races, it's feet behind the line, as that's easiest to measure and because reaction times are irrelevant at that distance anyway.

If you were going to change anything, I'd suggest that the starting blocks be the point at which a race starts: make them fixed behind a line, and force athletes to use them. You don't need to faff with checking finger positions then.

Another potential change would be to measure the first body part/ski across the line like they do in cross-country skiing or parallel ski racing for example. Not worth the bother of resetting previous records though.

[Marc Meakin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/68440268
Still wanna see his one day

[Gavin Chipper]

The Eugene Diamond League is on the BBC tonight from 9, but in the pre-televised stuff, Beatrice Chebet has just broken the women's 10,000m world record with a time of 28:54.14. Not as quick as the road time set by Agnes Ngetich earlier in the year of 28:46 though, but I think I said above about how shoe rules seem to favour road times these days.

[Marc Meakin]

Steve Crams mile record from 1985 has just been broken

[Marc Meakin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/a ... 99jqe77wjo

What exactly did he do ?

[Gavin Chipper]

Drugs?

[Marc Meakin]

Drugs?

Obviously ,but drug cheats ate found out after a urine or blood sample

[Gavin Chipper]

"The Tribunal rejected Kipruto's defence, concluding the 'cause for the abnormalities in the ABP is more likely to be due to blood manipulation' such as through the use of recombinant human erythropoietin (rEPO)," said the Athletics Integrity Unit (AIU), which has enforced the ban.

"There was 'no other plausible explanation' for the abnormal values."

[Marc Meakin]

Amazing 800 metres Pattison goes second behind Coe in the all time list by finishing 5th

[Gavin Chipper]

Amazing 800 metres Pattison goes second behind Coe in the all time list by finishing 5th

It's interesting that the men's 800m has suddenly become a competitive event. Over the last few years, people have rarely gone under 1:43, and getting a 1:42.xx generally means you're a gold medal contender. With the world record at 1:40.91 and Sebastian Coe's ancient British record (and ex world record) at 1:41.73, this is not great. But now suddenly multiple people have been running in the 1:41s and a whole host more in the 1:42s. Not sure where this has come from.

[Marc Meakin]

Amazing 800 metres Pattison goes second behind Coe in the all time list by finishing 5th

It's interesting that the men's 800m has suddenly become a competitive event. Over the last few years, people have rarely gone under 1:43, and getting a 1:42.xx generally means you're a gold medal contender. With the world record at 1:40.91 and Sebastian Coe's ancient British record (and ex world record) at 1:41.73, this is not great. But now suddenly multiple people have been running in the 1:41s and a whole host more in the 1:42s. Not sure where this has come from.

It always used to be a fast 400 followed by another fast 200 and a blistering last 200.
I always wondered apart from the great Cuban Alberto Juanterino there was never any serious 4 and 800 metre doubles

[Marc Meakin]

https://talksport.com/sport/2034304/usa ... n-warholm/
This is impressive.
More like this please

I'm curious if Duplantis run up in the pole vault is faster than his competitors ?

[Gavin Chipper]

I remember when Usain Bolt and Mo Farah were going to have a race over about 600m but it never happened. That would have been more interesting I think.

Anyway I watched the whole thing here.

[Marc Meakin]

I remember when Usain Bolt and Mo Farah were going to have a race over about 600m but it never happened. That would have been more interesting I think.

Anyway I watched the whole thing here.

I would have backed Mo on that one.
400 would be closer

[Gavin Chipper]

I remember when Usain Bolt and Mo Farah were going to have a race over about 600m but it never happened. That would have been more interesting I think.

Anyway I watched the whole thing here.

I would have backed Mo on that one.
400 would be closer

Bolt would have easily won at 400m. I think I read somewhere that a more realistic crossover point would have been about 550m.

[Gavin Chipper]

Assefa breaks the women's Marathon record

From 2:14:04 to 2:11:53. Absolutely massive. Some people think all the new shoes devalue the records.

It's now gone from 2:11:53 to 2:09:57 in one go. Set by Ruth Chepngetich. Interesting.

[Phil H]

It's now gone from 2:11:53 to 2:09:57 in one go. Set by Ruth Chepngetich. Interesting.

Apparently she knocked 4:22 off her previous PB, and both her splits broke her half marathon PB. Unsurprising that it's been met with some scepticism in that light.

[Fiona T]

New parkrun record!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66010152

That's some parkrun debut.

(There are some miserable feckers on twitter - "I thought parkrun was about participation not speed" etc... - it is, but there's still a record and it just got broken!)

Record broken

https://fastrunning.com/running-athleti ... 2024/37802

"Nick Griggs ran the fastest parkrun ever this weekend with a 13:44 at Belfast Victoria parkrun in Northern Ireland. "

https://www.parkrun.org.uk/belfastvictoria/results/630/

[Gavin Chipper]

Yeah, one second!

[Marc Meakin]

New parkrun record!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66010152

That's some parkrun debut.

(There are some miserable feckers on twitter - "I thought parkrun was about participation not speed" etc... - it is, but there's still a record and it just got broken!)

Record broken

https://fastrunning.com/running-athleti ... 2024/37802

"Nick Griggs ran the fastest parkrun ever this weekend with a 13:44 at Belfast Victoria parkrun in Northern Ireland. "

https://www.parkrun.org.uk/belfastvictoria/results/630/

Surely Parkrun course are all different terrain , etc

[Fiona T]

New parkrun record!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66010152

That's some parkrun debut.

(There are some miserable feckers on twitter - "I thought parkrun was about participation not speed" etc... - it is, but there's still a record and it just got broken!)

Record broken

https://fastrunning.com/running-athleti ... 2024/37802

"Nick Griggs ran the fastest parkrun ever this weekend with a 13:44 at Belfast Victoria parkrun in Northern Ireland. "

https://www.parkrun.org.uk/belfastvictoria/results/630/

Surely Parkrun course are all different terrain , etc

Yes, and the timing is done with a stopwatch - it's not a race and the timing would never account for anything official, but it's still the fastest recorded parkrun!

[Marc Meakin]

I guess there is some Kudos for holding the record but I'm sure somewhere in the British Isles there is a park run that's most suited for breaking records

[Gavin Chipper]

I guess there is some Kudos for holding the record but I'm sure somewhere in the British Isles there is a park run that's most suited for breaking records

There is a list of parkruns by fastness. Pegwell Bay at the top is thought to be short, although they may have changed the course since the list was done.

[Marc Meakin]

[q uote="Gavin Chipper" post_id=213923 time=1731340969 user_id=89]

I guess there is some Kudos for holding the record but I'm sure somewhere in the British Isles there is a park run that's most suited for breaking records

There is a list of parkruns by fastness. Pegwell Bay at the top is thought to be short, although they may have changed the course since the list was done.
[/quote]
Not too far from where I live

[Ian Volante]

I guess there is some Kudos for holding the record but I'm sure somewhere in the British Isles there is a park run that's most suited for breaking records

There is a list of parkruns by fastness. Pegwell Bay at the top is thought to be short, although they may have changed the course since the list was done.

I've moved from near #32 to near #638. Definitely less fun.

[Marc Meakin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/a ... glggr6e2po

That's a mighty impressive first time marathon.
I'm thinking that the 2 hour barrier might be broken in my my lifetime

[Gavin Chipper]

Kelvin Kiptum probably would have done it by now.

[Jon Corby]

Why the fuck does that article have the winner's time in words and everyone else's in digits?

[Gavin Chipper]

Why the fuck does that article have the winner's time in words and everyone else's in digits?

I thought the same. At first I wondered why they didn't mention the time and then I noticed it.

Good to have you back for the pressing issues.

[Ian Volante]

Why the fuck does that article have the winner's time in words and everyone else's in digits?

I thought the same. At first I wondered why they didn't mention the time and then I noticed it.

Good to have you back for the pressing issues.

Good to set out the units at first mention, then abbreviate for the rest of the paper. Facile in this case obvs, but good practice more generally.

[Gavin Chipper]

They should have the time using digits in brackets after the wordy time as that explicitly sets the precedent and makes it easier to read. So I'd say it's been poorly done in this case.

[Marc Meakin]

They should have the time using digits in brackets after the wordy time as that explicitly sets the precedent and makes it easier to read. So I'd say it's been poorly done in this case.

It reminds me of the football scores. If a team won 8 : 0 it would have the word eight in brackets

[Marc Meakin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/ce8gz5vl2z1o

It's a shame Mo Farrah wasn't racing