Collaborative crossword writing

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:25 pm

Ha, look, I'm at the top of the page!

I made this (really easy) one up:

The French sailor can do it! (4)

And I found this gem (about no-one in particular

):

Ben - he's a weird, old-fashioned type (7)

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:42 pm

Kai Laddiman wrote:Ha, look, I'm at the top of the page!

I made this (really easy) one up:

The French sailor can do it! (4)

And I found this gem (about no-one in particular ):

Ben - he's a weird, old-fashioned type (7)

Hasbeen for the second one, had a think about the first one but have only come up with LEAB^ which I am sure isn't a word

.

Mikey Lear · Post by **Mikey Lear** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:32 pm

Able, dur.

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:18 pm

A few more to be going on with

Order Len's hot meat pies but get this? (15, 2 words)
Robot confused Corby? Good! (6)
Rod's with a new daughter... (4)
...require daughter to be born first (4)

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:45 pm

Gary Male wrote:A few more to be going on with

Order Len's hot meat pies but get this? (15, 2 words)
Robot confused Corby? Good! (6)
Rod's with a new daughter... (4)
...require daughter to be born first (4)

Is the last one NEED? Require means NEED and first of daughter is D and NEE is the name you were born with.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:07 am

Mikey Lear wrote:Able, dur.

I think David was subtly pointing out that ABLE, while the obvious answer, doesn't work according to the usual principles of cryptic clue construction because the components are in the wrong order.

Kai Laddiman · Post by **Kai Laddiman** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:03 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Mikey Lear wrote:Able, dur.
I think David was subtly pointing out that ABLE, while the obvious answer, doesn't work according to the usual principles of cryptic clue construction because the components are in the wrong order.

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:04 pm

Yes Kirk, NEED is right. D for daughter (it's in Chambers as an acceptible abbreviation), and with NEE first (first has to be included to make the components go in the right order

) to make NEED

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:09 pm

Gary Male wrote:A few more to be going on with

Order Len's hot meat pies but get this? (15, 2 words)
Robot confused Corby? Good! (6)
Rod's with a new daughter... (4)
...require daughter to be born first (4)

For the 1st clue, I am thinking that you need to anagram "Len's hot meat pies" and that one of the words is PASTIES, but can't make anything with the remaining letters.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:51 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Gary Male wrote:Order Len's hot meat pies but get this? (15, 2 words)
I am thinking that you need to anagram "Len's hot meat pies" and that one of the words is PASTIES, but can't make anything with the remaining letters.

I made PESTO MILANESE out of the letters but I had two left over.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:20 am

Gary Male wrote:Robot confused Corby? Good! (6)

CYBORG

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:03 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Joseph Bolas wrote:I am thinking that you need to anagram "Len's hot meat pies"
I made PESTO MILANESE out of the letters but I had two left over.

Ditto with HOSTEL PANTIES.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:29 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:For the 1st clue, I am thinking that you need to anagram "Len's hot meat pies" and that one of the words is PASTIES, but can't make anything with the remaining letters.

Wrong - "Len" is "leonard" and his "hot meat pies" are "pasties"; so it's actually LEONARD'S PASTIES which you need to anagram in order to get something else you can eat. The answer therefore clearly being ROASTED SPANIELS. I'm right, aren't I Gary?

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:12 pm

Jon Corby wrote:
Gary Male wrote:Robot confused Corby? Good! (6)
CYBORG

I thought you'd get that one

Without wanting to give too much away, PESTO MILANESE is thinking along the right lines (and I wish I'd been clever enough to see pesto milanese could be made from 13 of the letters). No Spaniels or pasties involved, sadly.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:03 am

Gary Male wrote:Order Len's hot meat pies but get this? (15, 2 words)

SPANISH OMELETTE.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:28 am

Nice one! I got as far as NEMESIS HOTPLATE before I gave up.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:22 am

David O'Donnell wrote:Nice one! I got as far as NEMESIS HOTPLATE before I gave up.

Funny, I'd got SIEMENS HOTPLATE. I used to work for an electronics company that got partially taken over by Siemens, so that particular anagram always amused me.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:28 am

Gary Male wrote:Rod's with a new daughter... (4)

WAND! At first I thought this one was cheating 'cos it didn't say "initially" or whatever in the clue. But, in fact (and besides "a", which obviously represents itself), all the words in the construction can be legitimately abbreviated to their first letter. Nice one.

Now here's an easy one for you:

Counter-melody that's beyond the ability of Mr O'Connor? (7)

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:30 am

I was one clue shy of completing the Times on Sunday so I will throw it upon to the floor.

Sundry penguins? (6) I was thinking RIPENS but I couldn't relate that to penguins, anybody know the answer?

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:30 am

David O'Donnell wrote:I was one clue shy of completing the Times on Sunday so I will throw it upon to the floor.

Sundry penguins? (6) I was thinking RIPENS but I couldn't relate that to penguins, anybody know the answer?

Which letters did you have in the answer then?

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:35 am

David O'Donnell wrote:Sundry penguins? (6) I was thinking RIPENS but I couldn't relate that to penguins

...and it would be the wrong tense to go with 'sundry'.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:58 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:
David O'Donnell wrote:Sundry penguins? (6) I was thinking RIPENS but I couldn't relate that to penguins
...and it would be the wrong tense to go with 'sundry'.

The guy who sets the crossword tends to use compound words as a distraction. Another clue was: Oversell game (4).

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:00 am

WHICH LETTERS FROM 'RIPENS' ARE DEFINITELY IN THE ANSWER? :X

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:24 am

Jon Corby wrote:WHICH LETTERS FROM 'RIPENS' ARE DEFINITELY IN THE ANSWER? :X

-I-E-S

I am not sure if the s was there though on reflection.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:27 am

David O'Donnell wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:WHICH LETTERS FROM 'RIPENS' ARE DEFINITELY IN THE ANSWER? :X
-I-E-S

I am not sure if the s was there though on reflection.

DIVERS mate.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:29 am

Explain!

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:33 am

David O'Donnell wrote:Explain!

Erm... penguins are divers, divers(e usually) means sundry?

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:38 am

The divers bit for penguins I got but isn't the word diverse for that meaning relating to sundry?

Edit: I have found an archaic version written as divers but it became obsolete from the seventeenth century. Normally this guy's clues are a lot neater than that.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:40 am

David O'Donnell wrote:I have found an archaic version written as divers but it became obsolete from the seventeenth century. Normally this guy's clues are a lot neater than that.

Wah wah wah

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:43 am

I was trying to think of an electronics-related clue. The best I can come up with is:

A. (amplitude): repeater! (5)

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:46 am

Jon Corby wrote:
David O'Donnell wrote:I have found an archaic version written as divers but it became obsolete from the seventeenth century. Normally this guy's clues are a lot neater than that.
Wah wah wah

I take offence at that

.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:51 am

David O'Donnell wrote:I take offence at that .

When you've finished wiping the tears away, you might like to say "well done" or "thank you"

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:59 am

David O'Donnell wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:
David O'Donnell wrote:Sundry penguins? (6) I was thinking RIPENS but I couldn't relate that to penguins
...and it would be the wrong tense to go with 'sundry'.
The guy who sets the crossword tends to use compound words as a distraction.

No, what I meant was - for the answer to fit 'sundry' as in 'sun-dry' (which is what I presumed you were thinking) it would have to be RIPEN, not RIPENS. If it was RIPENS, the clue would have to be 'sundries'. (I probably didn't mean 'tense' but my grammatical terminology is a bit weak.)

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:05 pm

Good stuff. DIVERS is also listed as a literary term in Chambers and Collins, so it looks sound to me.

Contemptuous Mr. Harris returns (6)
Five iron mother's turn to the left (6)
Greek character found in lower labyrinth? (8)

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:10 pm

Gary Male wrote:Good stuff. DIVERS is also listed as a literary term in Chambers and Collins, so it looks sound to me.

Contemptuous Mr. Harris returns (6)
Five iron mother's turn to the left (6)
Greek character found in lower labyrinth? (8)

Is the latter MINOTAUR? TAU is a greek letter and MINOR being "lower"? A minotaur was found in the labyrinth.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:16 pm

David O'Donnell wrote:isn't the word diverse for that meaning relating to sundry?

No, diverse means 'of various kinds', as in 'a diverse group of people'. It's not a synonym for sundry.

I have found an archaic version written as divers but it became obsolete from the seventeenth century.

Obsolete is as obsolete does. I hear it used occasionally, albeit in an affectedly old-fashioned way by the type of people who also like to say 'methinks'.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:50 pm

You're are quite right about RIPEN(s), I got carried away by the sundry element of the clue and well done Corby, you are my hero!

Paul Howe · Post by **Paul Howe** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:59 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote: Counter-melody that's beyond the ability of Mr O'Connor? (7)

DESCANT, fairly obscure vocab so I'm not sure I'd call it easy even if the clue is simple. And methinks is a fine word.

I said I'd write some more of these ages ago so I'd better go and think some up.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:10 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Gary Male wrote:Order Len's hot meat pies but get this? (15, 2 words)
SPANISH OMELETTE.

Well spotted Phil

I normally love anagrams, so I am quite pissed off with myself that I didn't see this

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:17 pm

Are we anywhere near stage 2 yet?

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:20 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:
Gary Male wrote:Good stuff. DIVERS is also listed as a literary term in Chambers and Collins, so it looks sound to me.

Contemptuous Mr. Harris returns (6)
Five iron mother's turn to the left (6)
Greek character found in lower labyrinth? (8)
Is the latter MINOTAUR? TAU is a greek letter and MINOR being "lower"? A minotaur was found in the labyrinth.

Yes, almost a fabled &lit clue. A bit of a shame that labyrinth does nothing for the wordplay reading of the clue, but still, nice being able to use a question mark to cheat a bit.

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:32 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:I was trying to think of an electronics-related clue. The best I can come up with is:

A. (amplitude): repeater! (5)

AGAIN

To seal, I must be taken in by ham storage device (9)

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:11 pm

Gary Male wrote:Are we anywhere near stage 2 yet?

I'm going to collate all the best clues and throw in some new ones to make a C4C Christmas Crossword (C4CCC). In order to boost the acronym, I might also do it with Chris Cummins for charity.

Chris Corby · Post by **Chris Corby** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:14 am

There was a quite interesting programme on BBC FOUR the other night called "How to do a cryptic crossword" (or something similar) where compilers explained the methodology of them, but it was basically aimed at SUN readers to wean them off the coffe break easy crossword..(whatever that is)

However I did like two clues for anyone who didn't see it:

(a) A bar of soap (6,6)
(b) Parisian flower (5)

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:17 am

Chris Corby wrote:There was a quite interesting programme on BBC FOUR the other night called "How to do a cryptic crossword" (or something similar) where compilers explained the methodology of them, but it was basically aimed at SUN readers to wean them off the coffe break easy crossword..(whatever that is)

However I did like two clues for anyone who didn't see it:

(a) A bar of soap (6,6)
(b) Parisian flower (5)

I saw that, it was brilliant.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:03 am

Chris Corby wrote:(a) A bar of soap (6,6)
(b) Parisian flower (5)

(a) ROVERS RETURN
(b) SEINE.

Chris Corby · Post by **Chris Corby** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:08 am

Cheat

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:33 am

Chris Corby wrote:There was a quite interesting programme on BBC FOUR the other night called "How to do a cryptic crossword" (or something similar) where compilers explained the methodology of them, but it was basically aimed at SUN readers to wean them off the coffe break easy crossword..(whatever that is)

It was a very good program indeed, but I don't feel like I learn't much from it.

I did laugh though, when the guy (can't remember name) said "You don't have to be smart to solve a cryptic crossword" (or something like that it was).

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:59 am

Charlie Reams wrote:I might also do it with Chris Cummins for charity.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:04 am

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:I might also do it with Chris Cummins for charity.

lol.

Although I suspect "charity" is the only reason anyone would do it with Chris Cummins.

ZING!

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:19 pm

Jon Corby wrote:Although I suspect "charity" is the only reason anyone would do it with Chris Cummins.

ZING!

I'll toss them up, you hit 'em. I'm only disappointed that you weren't the first to reply.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:23 am

Two nice clues from Wednesday's Guardian:

1. (One for Michael Wallace as I think he typed earlier he likes Spooners) Cod etc show desire for conflict, says Spooner (9);
2. (One for Kirkie) They observe transport site movements (13).

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:46 am

Forgot to add this really brilliant clue from the same crossword. I didn't get this one so yet again I was foiled by a solitary clue

Evidence of virus disputed in report (7)

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:53 am

David O'Donnell wrote:Two nice clues from Wednesday's Guardian

Is this the crossword recommended for beginners or is there an easier crossword?

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:59 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:
David O'Donnell wrote:Two nice clues from Wednesday's Guardian
Is this the crossword recommended for beginners or is there an easier crossword?

The Guardian is probably a little out of my league since I tend to take over an hour (sometimes two or three) and usually leave one or two clues. In fact I find the Sunday Times easier than some of the Guardian solvers like Gemini whose clues I don't understand even when I get the answer sometimes. For an out-and-out beginner the tabloids have two speed crosswords - you can try the cryptic clues first then use the quick clues when you get stuck. For an improving beginner (which is where I would rank myself) the Daily Express is perfect. It has quite a few anagrams so it's easy to make a start and it also has a couple of tricky clues so that you can feel fairly satisfied if you complete it. Of course if you are a bit of a whizz at the old crosswords, like Gary Male, you can try the Everyman - it's not for every man.

Kirk Bevins · Post by **Kirk Bevins** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:25 pm

David O'Donnell wrote:Two nice clues from Wednesday's Guardian:

1. (One for Michael Wallace as I think he typed earlier he likes Spooners) Cod etc show desire for conflict, says Spooner (9);
2. (One for Kirkie) They observe transport site movements (13).

Yay!! TRAINSPOTTERS! Awesome clue.

Joseph Bolas · Post by **Joseph Bolas** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:40 pm

David O'Donnell wrote:For an improving beginner (which is where I would rank myself) the Daily Express is perfect. It has quite a few anagrams so it's easy to make a start and it also has a couple of tricky clues so that you can feel fairly satisfied if you complete it.

Do the crosswords they have online, match what you get in the paper, or would you still need to buy that?#

Incidentally, I went on the Daily Express website and registered so I could play the puzzles online, and if you look in today's League - Easy Wordsearch, although it's not one of the words on the list, BOLAS is actually spelt out near the middle of the grid, which tickled me

Allan Harmer · Post by **Allan Harmer** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:25 pm

Do the crosswords they have online, match what you get in the paper, or would you still need to buy that?#

Joseph

I think you will find that most papers have the same crossword on their web-site as published in the paper.

I started off by doing the Sunday Express Skeleton crossword about 40 years ago when my uncle showed me the principles of cryptic crosswords. I then moved on to the Mail, Telegraph and finally can manage to tackle The Times one with some degree of consistency.

The best crosswords IMO are the Telegraph and Times but the Independent and Guardian are also very challenging.

I subscribe to the Times Crossword Club as I don't really have time to read the paper and it is great value at £25 per year for all the daily and week end Times x words. Much cheaper than buying a paper every day.

The way I learnt was to work out what I could on my own first and then looking at the answers next day and working out the conventions and how the clues should have been solved. I reckon it took me about 5 years to be able to regularly complete (or nearly complete) the Telegraph. Good luck!

I came across a great clue in last Saturday's Times - At the office computer, not working, affected by single crack (13).

If anyone wants to post clues on here that they are having trouble with maybe it would be fun for us to try and solve them.

Cheers! Allan

Gary Male · Post by **Gary Male** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:50 pm

As has been said, start off with tabloids then move on to the Express or maybe the Mail, depending on preference. I spent many hours on buses in the late 90s with nothing to do other than stare at the crosswords. Look at the solution, then see what you missed and remember what the small words and single letters are indicated by. There's people here that can help with clues. As a rule the "easier" ones will stick to things like "Piano" and "Pawn" to represent the letter P, but as you move on you'll get more obscure things like "Perl" or "400" to represent the same letter. After those I'd be inclined to say go for the Telegraph next because on the odd occasion I've had a stab at that crossword I've found it more accessible than the other broadsheets. Your experience will more than likely be different.

On a good day I can do the Times crossword in about 15 minutes but that's by no means the norm, especially when the more obscure words are used. I don't read the Guardian so couldn't comment on the setters. In a strange way I find the Azed and Mephisto-style crosswords easier despite the more obscure words, because it's a barred grid as opposed to the blocked grid. Before you know it you'll be swearing at the Magpie submissions because you forgot to write LONDON below the grid despite highlighting 2012 making it obvious you knew what it was on about. Ahem.

Wasn't the Everyman crossword the one that Dave Gorman used as a Googlewhack generator?

Allan Harmer · Post by **Allan Harmer** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:12 am

When you are starting off it is useful to have a crossword solver.

I have found a great site that has a very good inclusive solver for words, phrases and anagrams, with a wide vocabulary - It is very useful for very tricky clues that you can't get your head round.

Here is a link to it: http://www.wordfun.ca/ It also gives operating instructions.