COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:44 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:13 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:10 pm
Then there is, of course, the Swedish argument that lockdown was not necessary at all...
Sweden has a much lower population density than the UK and also the guy behind the policy admitted that too many people died.
Well, my last line was very much a tongue-in-cheek "what if" comment - but it serves a purpose to say that Sweden showed that lockdown wasn't a prerequisite as 99% (not a statistically accurate figure) seem to think. Different effects, for sure, which we probably don't know the full extent of yet, but regardless of exactly what happened in Sweden, it showed that a full lockdown may not have been the only answer.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Noel Mc » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:24 pm

Fiona T wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:07 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:11 pm
People need to stop arguing from hindsight, because it's ridiculous.

"We should have locked down sooner" - when exactly did you call for lockdown, and why would you do so so early on? Do you not realise it's a weapon of last resort, because evidently you don't.

"Stay alert is pants, stay safe is fine" - they're practically the same thing.

"We shouldn't have released restrictions" - maybe tell that to the entire media who was badgering Boris for an end to lockdown from day one.

Anthony Endsor said in aptochat that lockdown should have started on 7 March, i.e. two weeks prior. That is bollocks because covid was not even a topic of conversation in my day-to-day life then. You cannot lockdown every 2 minutes when another country has a pandemic. That's nuts.
Do you think the government have made any mistakes Rhys?
I tried to discern from the reply. I think the answer was 'no'.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Paul Worsley » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:58 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:13 pm
Sweden has a much lower population density than the UK and also the guy behind the policy admitted that too many people died.
From the article
although he emphasised that "does not disqualify our strategy as a whole".
Also, "population density" doesn't really count like for like, when huge swathes of Sweden hasn't got any inhabitants at all. I would suggest that most Swedes live in cities and towns, just like here.

I still think the lockdown in March was correct, but the Swedish "experiment" does suggest that some of the death toll predictions were overly pessimistic.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:32 pm

This rule of six thing - pubs are open (until 10pm anyway) so you can go there in a group of six. But are you allowed to then talk to people who also happen to be there? Or indeed if you are outside somewhere and bump into some other people. Could two groups of six who just happen to coincidentally encounter each other keep swapping members and changing which six people are in which group?

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Sam Cappleman-Lynes » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:49 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:32 pm
Or indeed if you are outside somewhere and bump into some other people. Could two groups of six who just happen to coincidentally encounter each other keep swapping members and changing which six people are in which group?
Priti Patel would report you to the police for doing this.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:11 pm

Sam Cappleman-Lynes wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:49 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:32 pm
Or indeed if you are outside somewhere and bump into some other people. Could two groups of six who just happen to coincidentally encounter each other keep swapping members and changing which six people are in which group?
Priti Patel would report you to the police for doing this.
Yeah, I read that before, but she's an idiot and it doesn't really clarify anything about where the edge lies.

Edit - what's minglin anyway? The article talks about mingling, but that's not what Priti is talking about.

Edit 2 - We had a conversation about this sort of thing before and I don't care if someone in general says "minglin" instead of "mingling", but she's a Tory with a posh voice and it's really noticeable and grating the way she speaks like that.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Mark James » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:56 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrChristens ... 1387334663

Interesting thread on the Swedish model.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 am

I was just thinking to myself - if this pandemic was just allowed to run (so no lockdown measures etc.) with an approx 1% death rate, dying from COVID-19 still wouldn't be a massive risk when compared to e.g. heart disease, cancer, diabetes. It's just that if you died from COVID-19, it would likely be this year (or maybe next) so the risk would be shoved into a very small time frame. If you zoomed out, I don't think it would have a massive effect on life expectancy. So does a smallish death risk deserve priority if it's made to look worse by the timeframe? Of course there is still the issue that it could overwhelm the NHS - so is it more about the NHS (and the knock-on effects for people with other illnesses) that lockdown measures are required for rather than dying from COVID-19 itself?

Obviously the fact that you are more likely to die from other things isn't an excuse to ignore COVID-19, especially when there are things you can do to prevent it. People aren't dying from cancer because no-one can be bothered to find any treatments for it. Having said said, I think a lot more could be done to prevent heart disease which is far less a random bad luck thing than cancer. Plus doing the things that would reduce heart disease risk would actually reduce COVID-19 risk.

But anyway, I'm playing devil's advocate to a certain extent here - I don't think we should just do nothing - but I can also see where people are coming from when they talk about getting the right balance between freedom (and being able to earn money) and safety.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Thomas Cappleman » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:32 pm

I think both the general death rate and the impact on the NHS come into it.

The focus on R-rate would tie in more with the NHS impact. If the R-rate stays above 1 then at some point you hit the limit on some resource or another, and at that point the death rate shoots up past 1% of infections, based on some large percentage of the excess cases (those that can't be treated due to lack of resource).

The general death rate issue can be solved if there's a vaccine or sufficiently effective cure before everyone's had the virus. If not then that 1% figure will apply eventually, and so in itself wouldn't be worth the restrictions.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by David Williams » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:07 pm

You're assuming either that you have full immunity once you've had it, or that the 1% death rate is because 99% of people will never be at risk of death and 1% are goners. If it was as common as a cold, you could get it every month, and there was a 1% chance of death every time you got it . . .

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:02 pm

Well, exactly, Gevin: at some point, the reasoning was moved from "lockdown to save the NHS" to "lockdown forever until no COVID". There's no rewind button but remember the theory was about flattening the curve to save the NHS from being overwhelmed. Selfishly, the "flattern the curve" approach I wasn't a fan of because it just dragged this out longer. Had we not done anything (besides, perhaps, banning mass gatherings), then the model said this would all have been over by early April/May. It's notable that if you compare internationally, our curve comes down from the peak a lot flatter than the continent in the spring.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:53 pm

Also, last night Trump said a vaccine is "weeks away", which I thought was bollocks.

But...

I have no doubt Trump didn't quite mean this, but given the Oxford vaccine has now been submitted to the EU for approval - fingers crossed...!
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:54 pm

David Williams wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:07 pm
You're assuming either that you have full immunity once you've had it, or that the 1% death rate is because 99% of people will never be at risk of death and 1% are goners. If it was as common as a cold, you could get it every month, and there was a 1% chance of death every time you got it . . .
Sure, I was simplifying but on the other hand it wouldn't be as you described either. Some people are more at risk so it wouldn't be a random 1% lottery every time you got it. Plus it's clear you get some immunity, at least for a while, so every month would be an exaggeration.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pm

I'm seeing a few people compare the Margaret Ferrier case to the Dominic Cummings case, which is a huge false equivalence for several major reasons.

First, what Dominic Cummings did was self-isolate with his family in Durham. That's perfectly fine within the rules. The only thing that he did wrong was drive back to London via Barnard Castle, which constituted "a minor breach" of the regulations (the police's words). The charge sheet was one of hypocrisy more than anything else.

Second, Margaret Ferrier knowingly got on a train from Scotland to London and then went into Parliament having developed COVID symptoms. Then she got on a train back to Scotland - a train! - after getting a positive result. You are meant to self-isolate when you develop symptoms. Why she hasn't been fined yet is bizarre.

There are also concerns about why the SNP weren't informed until Wednesday, and then why it wasn't announced until Thursday. The worst thing about this is the media are not camping outside her home and hounding her day and night, but I guess seeing as she's on the left they're going to look after their own.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Thomas Cappleman » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:11 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pm
There are also concerns about why the SNP weren't informed until Wednesday, and then why it wasn't announced until Thursday. The worst thing about this is the media are not camping outside her home and hounding her day and night, but I guess seeing as she's on the left they're going to look after their own.
Or because (admittedly, after being caught) she admitted that what she had done was wrong, and her party moved quickly to condemn what she did and punished her, and are pushing her to resign themselves. There's therefore no need for the media to push her further.

Also, based on this the SNP only knew what she'd done on Thursday: "A spokesman for the party said the SNP's chief whip immediately informed parliament authorities after learning of Ms Ferrier's positive test on Wednesday.

But he said it was not until Thursday that the SNP discovered that Ms Ferrier had been tested prior to travelling to London and had then travelled back to Glasgow despite knowing that she had a positive result." (source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54383281)

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Fiona T » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:22 pm

Absolutely agree that what she did (breach the rules) was worse than Cummings and has potentially put a lot of people at risk.

But Thomas is right in that the difference is the admission of guilt and condemnation - had she attempted to defend her position, and had her party supported her, the media would be camping outside her door.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:29 pm

Fiona T wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:22 pm
But Gevin is right
Under his other pseudonym "Thomas Cappleman".

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Fiona T » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:33 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:29 pm
Fiona T wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:22 pm
But Gevin is right
Under his other pseudonym "Thomas Cappleman".
Well spotted - thought I got away with it. You've got so many identities I dunno who's who anymore ;)
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:35 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pm
The worst thing about this is the media are not camping outside her home and hounding her day and night, but I guess seeing as she's on the left they're going to look after their own.
Priceless.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:48 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:35 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pm
The worst thing about this is the media are not camping outside her home and hounding her day and night, but I guess seeing as she's on the left they're going to look after their own.
Priceless.
Oh come on. Laura K's response to this story breaking was "oops", which is a gross understatement of the severity of her actions.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:51 pm

There is also the point that no-one had heard of Margaret Ferrier before this so it's not going to be as big a story so they're less likely to want to camp outside her house. Cummings is in Johnson's inner circle.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:51 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:48 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:35 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pm
The worst thing about this is the media are not camping outside her home and hounding her day and night, but I guess seeing as she's on the left they're going to look after their own.
Priceless.
Oh come on. Laura K's response to this story breaking was "oops", which is a gross understatement of the severity of her actions.
So that's the evidence that the whole media is left-biased?

Edit - This story is pretty big anyway. She hasn't got away lightly in any respect.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Noel Mc » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:29 pm

Far far worse than what Cummings did, obviously.

Massive fan of Laura K being used as an indicator of left-wing bias in the media.

Impressed by Sturgeon's response to it. Whilst her performance shouldn't be a factor, I imagine she is just winning more and more people over in terms of Scottish independence.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:46 pm

What!? Scotland's numbers have been worse than England. And she's doing things differently for the sake of it - creating an app that cannot work in conjunction with the English one. If it's up to me the devolved nations and administrations should never have been allowed to create their own rules.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Noel Mc » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:05 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:46 pm
If it's up to me the devolved nations and administrations should never have been allowed to create their own rules.
lololololol

What about issues outside Coronavirus??

Editting this:
Northern Ireland hasnt had the best response, but surely you can see how a totally different landmass would probably need their own rules?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but didn't Scotland have a functioning app before England? Should the English app not have been designed to link with the Scottish one? Rather than vice versa? Maybe an attempt was made at this and the Scots said no, but I don't really know.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Noel Mc » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:06 pm

I also specifically meant her response to the Ferrier case.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:19 pm

It wasn't even in the top two stories on the 10 o'clock news. Should have been ahead of the "outbreak at Northants Uni" story.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:24 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:19 pm
It wasn't even in the top two stories on the 10 o'clock news. Should have been ahead of the "outbreak at Northants Uni" story.
So you mean it was third.

Are you talking about today? It's not really today's news though. These things have a decay rate.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:22 pm

And yet Dominic Cummings's indiscretion was reported on for weeks as the #1 story.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by David Williams » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:33 pm

I'm not convinced Dominic Cummings did anything illegal.

The reason the story ran and ran was the incomprehensible decision not to sack him, which completely undermined the efforts to combat the virus. If you believed that there was a left-wing bias in the media, all the more reason to sack him and contain the damage.

Why is it that diehard supporters of political parties can't just admit it when they screw up? Don't they realise they forfeit any credibility they had about everything else?

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:39 am

I also feel the need to point out again that Dominic Cummings is a well-known figure in the prime minister's inner circle. Margaret Ferrier is an obscure MP that most people had never heard of. Aside from the other details that have been discussed, the difference in coverage is understandable.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:04 pm

It’s really not. What she did is far, far worse. Moreover, Dominic Cummings only shot to public prevalence after the Cumberbatch portrayal of him. He was an obscure quiz question before that.

Margaret Ferrier still hasn't resigned, I haven't seen reporters doorstepping her 24/7, reporters harassing her family for more information or Led By Donkeys blasting a video on her street for all her neighbours to hear.

Odd as, as I said, what she did was undeniably worse.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:32 pm

Just to clarify, I completely agree that what she did was worse.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Elliott Mellor » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:21 am

David Williams wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:33 pm
I'm not convinced Dominic Cummings did anything illegal.

The reason the story ran and ran was the incomprehensible decision not to sack him, which completely undermined the efforts to combat the virus. If you believed that there was a left-wing bias in the media, all the more reason to sack him and contain the damage.

Why is it that diehard supporters of political parties can't just admit it when they screw up? Don't they realise they forfeit any credibility they had about everything else?
I don't really comment on threads like this, but had to jump in and say that this is an extremely valid point if ever I saw one.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Elliott Mellor » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:47 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:04 pm
It’s really not. What she did is far, far worse. Moreover, Dominic Cummings only shot to public prevalence after the Cumberbatch portrayal of him. He was an obscure quiz question before that.

Margaret Ferrier still hasn't resigned, I haven't seen reporters doorstepping her 24/7, reporters harassing her family for more information or Led By Donkeys blasting a video on her street for all her neighbours to hear.

Odd as, as I said, what she did was undeniably worse.
Not one person here has disputed her actions being worse. It doesn't matter how Dominic Cummings shot to prevalence, he's still far more widely known and as such that comes with increased coverage. The story of Corbyn's potential antisemitic history ran for literal months, can you link me to where you was critical of this "excessive" publicity - or is it perfectly okay for the media to cover stories heavily, as long as they aren't criticising actions of your party?
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Sam Cappleman-Lynes » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:58 am

In addition to all of the other points that have been raised, the Cummings story ran for days and days because there were new developments happening all the time. "Cummings went to Durham", "Boris knew that Cummings went to Durham", "Boris says he's satisfied with the explanation for Cummings's Durham trip", "Cummings to give statement in the Rose Garden", "

With the Margaret Ferrier story everything broke at once. We know all of the details. There is of course still ongoing coverage over her refusal to resign and opinions about what her party should do next. If anything else comes to light I expect it will be reported on. Do you want a repeat of exactly the same story that everyone already knows every night as the top news story?

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Sam Cappleman-Lynes » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:00 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:18 pm
The worst thing about this is the media are not camping outside her home and hounding her day and night
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:04 pm
I haven't seen reporters doorstepping her 24/7, reporters harassing her family for more information or Led By Donkeys blasting a video on her street for all her neighbours to hear.

Odd as, as I said, what she did was undeniably worse.
Are you suggesting that if a public figure (in this case, Dominic Cummings) is harassed by the media for some indiscretion, then a free and fair media is duty-bound to harass all future public figures who commit a similar or worse indiscretion? Isn't the fact that she isn't being harassed a good thing? Would you prefer it if Margaret Ferrier were being harassed by pressure groups and the media?

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:21 pm

I'm being a bit facetious about harassing - yes, it's a good thing she's not being harassed - but given the story lasted, what, two days before dropping off the BBC front page, given what she did was far worse, that's unjustified by the media, particularly when questions remain unanswered.
Why is it that diehard supporters of political parties can't just admit it when they screw up? Don't they realise they forfeit any credibility they had about everything else?
This accusation is unfounded. You'll find that earlier in this thread (or possibly the other one) I did think Cummings should go. You'll also find many Conservatives called for Cummings to go including a junior minister who is now Scot Con leader.
The story of Corbyn's potential antisemitic history ran for literal months
This is a false equivalence as you're implying that Labour antisemitism was one case of antisemitism, when new (non-historic) allegations were being made all the time. That's like saying "the coronavirus story is running for months" as a complaint.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Elliott Mellor » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:15 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:21 pm

The story of Corbyn's potential antisemitic history ran for literal months
This is a false equivalence as you're implying that Labour antisemitism was one case of antisemitism, when new (non-historic) allegations were being made all the time. That's like saying "the coronavirus story is running for months" as a complaint.
I'm not too sure it is, actually. It's still a case of the media hounding an individual repeatedly over something that is very questionable. New developments were made in the Cummings story as well, which is why the story repeatedly ran. That to me, seems like a pretty good equivalence. The coronavirus story running repeatedly is because, similarly, new developments are being made. It's almost as if the media report on current affairs and developments of things within the public interest, isn't it?

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Paul Worsley » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:33 pm

Comparing the press treatment of Margaret Ferrier to that of Dominic Cummings is not like for like. The SNP have expelled Ferrier. If she chooses not to resign then there's not much anyone can do.
A better comparison would be the harrassment of Cummings, and the free pass given to Stephen Kinnock.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Noel Mc » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:01 pm

In other news, lots of talk over here about a potential 'circuit breaker'. Suggestion is schools close for an extra week either before or after midterm. Mini lockdown with as much as possible closed down for two weeks.

Any talk in England/Wales/Scotland about this?

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:30 pm

Yes, there has been some talk about this but they've gone off the scent of this in favour of the new measures announced over the last month. Rumours are Rishi Sunak talked Boris Johnson out of the "circuit breaker" option on economic grounds.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by David Williams » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:43 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:21 pm
You'll find that earlier in this thread (or possibly the other one) I did think Cummings should go.
Link, please. And do you still think he should have gone?
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:21 pm
You'll also find many Conservatives called for Cummings to go
And the next time they support the Government on something controversial I'll be more inclined to trust them.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by David Williams » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:06 am

I don't understand what a circuit-breaker is supposed to do. If you don't completely fix the problem while the circuit is broken, you don't really achieve anything. If every single person in this country were to be completely isolated for long enough coronavirus would be eradicated, along with every other virus. But that's not going to happen. If you just have a two week lockdown maybe you halve the number of live cases, and if we then go back to whatever we were doing previously it only takes a week to get back to where we were.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

David Williams wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:43 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:21 pm
You'll find that earlier in this thread (or possibly the other one) I did think Cummings should go.
Link, please. And do you still think he should have gone?
http://c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic.php? ... d2#p187685

He shouldn’t go now if that’s what you mean, the time for resigning is long gone.
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:21 pm
You'll also find many Conservatives called for Cummings to go
And the next time they support the Government on something controversial I'll be more inclined to trust them.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Sam Cappleman-Lynes » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:33 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Last edited by Rhys Benjamin on Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Classic Dom.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:34 pm

Sam Cappleman-Lynes wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:33 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote: Last edited by Rhys Benjamin on Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Classic Dom.
(Edited to correct spelling error)
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:07 pm

Looks like we didn’t know all the details, Elliot. https://twitter.com/mirrorpolitics/stat ... 11136?s=21

Now can we have 3 weeks of solid media reporting? Thought not - not a peep from the leftie media about the trade deal with the Ukraine either.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Sam Cappleman-Lynes » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:13 pm

This new detail is being reported on in - correct me if I'm wrong - every major media outlet. What exactly do you want to happen?

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Jon O'Neill » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:25 pm

Just because the troll writes in grammatically coherent sentences, doesn't mean we should keep feeding it...

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:38 pm

It’s not on the Sky News front page.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Ian Volante » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:44 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:38 pm
It’s not on the Sky News front page.
OH NOES
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Marc Meakin » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:44 am

I keep hearing reports that the R rate is higher in some areas than during lockdown.
Isn't it time to go back to full lockdown ( unlikely to happen nationally) or give flu jabs to everyone over 50 and live life as normal, as it will blow over eventually
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Ian Volante » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 pm

Marc Meakin wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:44 am
I keep hearing reports that the R rate is higher in some areas than during lockdown.
Isn't it time to go back to full lockdown ( unlikely to happen nationally) or give flu jabs to everyone over 50 and live life as normal, as it will blow over eventually
Well, the whole point of lockdown was to reduce R, so that makes sense.

As for widening flu jab access, great, but that doesn't affect Covid, which is potentially the largest component of hospital capacity. Full lockdown is almost certainly seen as too expensive, but there are also arguments that behaviour has changed a lot now, including mask-wearing, shielding and a much greater awareness of how to restrict the spread, which means that incremental measures on top of this are likely to be much more effective than six months ago.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Marc Meakin » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:29 pm

Ian Volante wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:21 pm
Marc Meakin wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:44 am
I keep hearing reports that the R rate is higher in some areas than during lockdown.
Isn't it time to go back to full lockdown ( unlikely to happen nationally) or give flu jabs to everyone over 50 and live life as normal, as it will blow over eventually
Well, the whole point of lockdown was to reduce R, so that makes sense.

As for widening flu jab access, great, but that doesn't affect Covid, which is potentially the largest component of hospital capacity. Full lockdown is almost certainly seen as too expensive, but there are also arguments that behaviour has changed a lot now, including mask-wearing, shielding and a much greater awareness of how to restrict the spread, which means that incremental measures on top of this are likely to be much more effective than six months ago.
I wonder if anyone is collating the deaths that are related to the measures during covid rather than the virus itself.
For example cancer diagnoses and treatment and people dying unnecessarily because they are either too afraid to seek medical help or are unable to get a face to face consultation with their GP
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:29 pm

There was a study in today's Telegraph done by Edinburgh University that has concluded lockdown made the COVID situation worse by rejecting the entire concept of herd immunity.
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:03 pm

Couldn’t agree with this op-ed more. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... nds-covid/
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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:20 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:03 pm
Couldn’t agree with this op-ed more. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... nds-covid/
Paywall / free trial where you have to remember to cancel = not reading it.

What's the gist other than the obvious from the headline?
Last edited by Gavin Chipper on Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Phil H » Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:06 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:20 pm

Paywall / free trial where you have to remember ti cancel = not reading it.

What's the gist other than the obvious from the headline?
I'm guessing "The Scottish govt are terrible both for almost approaching the England death rate at one point and not being freedom-loving enough to go the whole hog, and they didn't even do any lib-owning while they were at it"

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Re: COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:29 am

- Their numbers are worse than England’s.
- They never fully opened themselves up.
- Less freedom, more COVID.
- Despite this, Sturgeon continues to be hailed by the media. Apparently Boris was overly optimistic, but not a peep about Sturgeon claiming COVID was “not far away” from being eliminated outright in Scotland.

More Qs asked to Boris that they haven’t asked to Sturgeon:
- Aren't your rules just confusing people?
- Why are you announcing new rules days before they come into effect?
- Why didn't you do this earlier?
- Why did you open pubs?
- Did you give people false hope with 'zero covid' boasts?

The media are so wrapped up in their Brexit hate they won’t even give Boris the time of day.
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