You'll definitely enjoy it. You'll either enjoy it at face value or you'll enjoy ripping it to shreds on here afterwards. But enjoyment will be had.Jon Corby wrote:Do you think I'll enjoy it? Might check it out on catch-up on Thursday.
Derren Brown - The Events
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Cool, cheers, will make sure I watch as soon as I can.Gavin Chipper wrote:You'll definitely enjoy it. You'll either enjoy it at face value or you'll enjoy ripping it to shreds on here afterwards. But enjoyment will be had.Jon Corby wrote:Do you think I'll enjoy it? Might check it out on catch-up on Thursday.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I'd almost given up on Derren Brown after some of his recent efforts (particularly the one's involving gambling).
SPOILER ALERT to anyone who hasn't watched it yet........
Concentrating on one of the "stooges" I think was a mistake, following all four (a bit like on the last day of the Football season) would have been far more entertaining, with viewers wondering who would do it and who wouldn't.
There was a touch of the movie Weekend at Bernies to add to the fun.
Anyone who did enjoy this, should check out the 2012 Film Compliance.
SPOILER ALERT to anyone who hasn't watched it yet........
Concentrating on one of the "stooges" I think was a mistake, following all four (a bit like on the last day of the Football season) would have been far more entertaining, with viewers wondering who would do it and who wouldn't.
There was a touch of the movie Weekend at Bernies to add to the fun.
Anyone who did enjoy this, should check out the 2012 Film Compliance.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
A bit more of a "touch"! Definitely these were the sequences I enjoyed the most.Steven M. McCann wrote:There was a touch of the movie Weekend at Bernies to add to the fun.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Without getting into the whole stooge/not stooge thing, I thought it was reasonably entertaining, but you'd have to be pretty gullible to get through all of that without questioning it. I liked that the guy we followed was actually the one guy it didn't work on. As soon as he said that there were three others, I immediately suspected them of attempted murder.
And also, regardless of Derren trying to play it down to them by saying that most people pushed him, fucking hell - they pushed that guy seemingly to his death and everyone they know will know that. How can you ever live that down?
And also, regardless of Derren trying to play it down to them by saying that most people pushed him, fucking hell - they pushed that guy seemingly to his death and everyone they know will know that. How can you ever live that down?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I quite enjoyed following the one guy and then the twist at the end. By the way, there's no way I would have labelled the meat sausages as vegetarian so I wouldn't have been a good subject.Steven M. McCann wrote:I'd almost given up on Derren Brown after some of his recent efforts (particularly the one's involving gambling).
SPOILER ALERT to anyone who hasn't watched it yet........
Concentrating on one of the "stooges" I think was a mistake, following all four (a bit like on the last day of the Football season) would have been far more entertaining, with viewers wondering who would do it and who wouldn't.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
But you probably wouldn't have gone along with the whole stand-up-sit-down thing and so wouldn't have progressed to that stage anyway.Gavin Chipper wrote:By the way, there's no way I would have labelled the meat sausages as vegetarian so I wouldn't have been a good subject.
I thought it was interesting and more plausible than his other recent "specials", although with some of the more extreme stuff he was being told to do (e.g. kick the corpse) I kept wondering why he didn't just say, "Why's it got to be me? Why don't you do it?"
Had it been me the game would have been up as soon as I recognised the actor playing the auctioneer (I've seen him in a play). Although I suspect at that point I would have experienced some conflict over whether to call time on the whole thing or continue to go along with it to avoid spoiling the fun.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I didn't see the show but I've read a bit about it. He's an entertaining guy and no doubt it was a riveting show, but it surely has to be completely acted out? I mean for a start you're looking at a truly massive lawsuit for the lifetime of psychological trauma you've inflicted on some randomer for the entertainment of the nation. I dunno about you but if I'd been bullied into murdering somebody it would haunt me every day for the rest of my life, even if it turns out, LOL, that it was all a hoax. And how could you go back to your family and friends? "I was on this Derren Brown show, right, and- you're going love this- they convinced me to murder somebody! I know, I shoved him off a roof, hilarious isn't it, what am I like! Turns out I didn't actually murder anyone, so all's well that ends well, eh?"
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I think that's the main objection to his shtick, but (and I'm happy to be proven wrong) I don't think anyone has yet come forward to "reveal" that they were used as a stooge in a show or stage performance. That's a lot of people to keep quiet; if he is somehow preventing all these whistle-blowers coming forward, it must be a full-time job.sean d wrote:I didn't see the show but I've read a bit about it. He's an entertaining guy and no doubt it was a riveting show, but it surely has to be completely acted out?
And I don't think Jon's seen this yet so I'll try not to give anything away, but if you watch the whole show (without obviously disregarding it as fakery), imagine the multiplication factor of all the people you'd have to suppress?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I think their could have been still more "sport" to be had even after the push............
"Oh my god, he's still alive! you're going to have to go down and finish him or he'll tell everybody he was pushed and you'll go to prison for a very long time!"
"Oh my god, he's still alive! you're going to have to go down and finish him or he'll tell everybody he was pushed and you'll go to prison for a very long time!"
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I was thinking the same. It always had to be the guy. Also, the bit where the auctioneer thinks he's Bernie seems like it could have been a bit shaky. I'm sure quite a few people would say that it's not them straight away. But I suppose having just hidden his corpse, it might change things.Phil Reynolds wrote:I thought it was interesting and more plausible than his other recent "specials", although with some of the more extreme stuff he was being told to do (e.g. kick the corpse) I kept wondering why he didn't just say, "Why's it got to be me? Why don't you do it?"
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Yeah but that would have been over-egging it a bit I think (without trying to give anything away, don't read anything into that etc.).Steven M. McCann wrote:I think their could have been still more "sport" to be had even after the push............
Jon, will you just tell us when you've watched this so we can do proper spoilers?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
He's a dick if he comes here not expecting spoilers. And why is it all about him? And it's been largely said what happened anyway!JimBentley wrote:Yeah but that would have been over-egging it a bit I think (without trying to give anything away, don't read anything into that etc.).Steven M. McCann wrote:I think their could have been still more "sport" to be had even after the push............
Jon, will you just tell us when you've watched this so we can do proper spoilers?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Stop trying to goad me, you...you.Gavin Chipper wrote:And it's been largely said what happened anyway!
You'll still enjoy it I think Jon, even if you have read all the crap in this thread (well, this bit of the thread).
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I watched this on Friday btw. What an absolute load of old bollocks.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
More detail is obviously required.Jon Corby wrote:I watched this on Friday btw. What an absolute load of old bollocks.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Yeah, but you can still enjoy a load of old bollocks, as I think has been proven beyond doubt on that I'm A Celebrity show. As Gevin says, more detail is required on why you chose to suck those balls until the end.Jon Corby wrote:I watched this on Friday btw. What an absolute load of old bollocks.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
It feels like I have to. Otherwise you have "the Derren discussion" with someone, and they're all like "oh no, but didn't you see that latest one, that was all real".JimBentley wrote:Yeah, but you can still enjoy a load of old bollocks, as I think has been proven beyond doubt on that I'm A Celebrity show. As Gevin says, more detail is required on why you chose to suck those balls until the end.Jon Corby wrote:I watched this on Friday btw. What an absolute load of old bollocks.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I actually thought it was an almost jumping-the-shark loads of old bollocks myself, on watching it again. First time I watched it, it seemed fine (although there was the possibility that I had been drinking and therefore FOOLED - unlikely, I know). Second time - oh. That didn't work, did it?Jon Corby wrote:It feels like I have to. Otherwise you have "the Derren discussion" with someone, and they're all like "oh no, but didn't you see that latest one, that was all real".JimBentley wrote:Yeah, but you can still enjoy a load of old bollocks, as I think has been proven beyond doubt on that I'm A Celebrity show. As Gevin says, more detail is required on why you chose to suck those balls until the end.Jon Corby wrote:I watched this on Friday btw. What an absolute load of old bollocks.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Really? I mean, I enjoyed it while remaining completely non-committal about how genuine I thought it was. In terms of jumping the shark, I think the shooting-himself-in-the-head thing he did in one of the non-countries in the channel is the best candidate, and he's been on the wrong side of the shark ever since. Is that a thing? If not, it should be. As in "That show is definitely on the wrong side of the shark."JimBentley wrote:I actually thought it was an almost jumping-the-shark loads of old bollocks myself, on watching it again.
Edit - Google seems to find a couple of matches but they're not exactly dominating the "wrong side of the shark" search space.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I would probably say that his National Lottery thing was probably the shark-jumping moment (although I've heard some interesting information since that suggests that this was meant to be a much bigger thing, but something went wrong legally and he had to do it the shoddy way in which it was shown).Gavin Chipper wrote:Really? I mean, I enjoyed it while remaining completely non-committal about how genuine I thought it was. In terms of jumping the shark, I think the shooting-himself-in-the-head thing he did in one of the non-countries in the channel is the best candidate, and he's been on the wrong side of the shark ever since. Is that a thing? If not, it should be. As in "That show is definitely on the wrong side of the shark."JimBentley wrote:I actually thought it was an almost jumping-the-shark loads of old bollocks myself, on watching it again.
Edit - Google seems to find a couple of matches but they're not exactly dominating the "wrong side of the shark" search space.
My problem with this one was pretty much the "reveal" at the end, which might have been shocking but really proved nothing. If we're to assume that there are no stooges (and personally I don't think there's any need for them) then all it shows is that some people are more suggestible than others. And we already knew that. It just came across as a showbizzy (and deliberately) farcical version of the Milgram experiment. It was an entertaining TV show but nothing more.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I disagree Jim, the show would have been revealing something massively astonishing... if we're expected to take everything at face value. The Milgram experiment is markedly different because the subject is literally following the instructions of the person running the experiment, with constant assurances that everything is perfectly safe and normal. Aside from any personal responsibility one might feel for pushing the button, there would be no other consequences - the responsibility for the other person's welfare lies wholly with the authority figure. That's not the case here.
So our four people have supposedly been all through the Derren audition process, gone through psychological profiling (must be pretty in-depth, right?), and then been told that they haven't been picked. Boo! Oh, but then a few weeks later, a new business opportunity arises (so they're all business stakeholders) which they're encouraged along with by their partner (who has to turn up on the night to take their phone - and presumably also has the responsibility of ensuring that they attend the auction and any preliminary meetings, but also that this doesn't affect any actual real-life business decisions such as turning down other work or employing new staff/any other expenditure for the contract). So we've got these four utterly subservient-but-also-business-stakeholder level people, all with a partner to keep them in check. Come on. They know full-well that they're in a Derren game, they're just probably not quite as clear exactly what role they're supposed to be playing as previous patsies (e.g. Zombie guy, Cluedo guy) have been.
Why do people forget what they know about human behaviour when they watch this shit? Do you know ANYBODY who would behave as these people did? See, the stand up/sit down thing with the bell, I can go with. Presumably they're told not to talk to the other people in the room (otherwise you'd just say "why are you doing that?"). That seems reasonable. I'd likely think I missed some instruction because I was daydreaming, or they could engineer that the process of getting into the room seemed disjointed and rushed ("this is Jon, put him in the room. Has he had the briefing? Yeah, think so. Oh you didn't? Nothing major, just fill this out and don't talk to anyone.") Can totally see that people might go with it. I probably would too, if enough people were doing it.
Even Chris isn't some kind of hero because he didn't push the guy, he'd already done so many heinous and immoral things prior to that - even saying "I'm leaving" and wandering off while leaving an innocent man on the roof with a group of people who've just unanimously voted to kill him isn't really that commendable.
Mislabelling the sausage rolls, I probably wouldn't even do that, can see that some people probably would though. Moving a dead body... nope, no way. I'm freaking the fuck out, absolutely going nowhere near it, and probably telling the guy who suggests it to fuck off and probably thinking this cunt should be nowhere near any kind of charity. There is literally no motive for him to do so, no authority figure who's carrying the responsibility for the decisions. IT'S BOLLOCKS IS WHAT IT IS. Absolutely nobody I know would behave like that.
So our four people have supposedly been all through the Derren audition process, gone through psychological profiling (must be pretty in-depth, right?), and then been told that they haven't been picked. Boo! Oh, but then a few weeks later, a new business opportunity arises (so they're all business stakeholders) which they're encouraged along with by their partner (who has to turn up on the night to take their phone - and presumably also has the responsibility of ensuring that they attend the auction and any preliminary meetings, but also that this doesn't affect any actual real-life business decisions such as turning down other work or employing new staff/any other expenditure for the contract). So we've got these four utterly subservient-but-also-business-stakeholder level people, all with a partner to keep them in check. Come on. They know full-well that they're in a Derren game, they're just probably not quite as clear exactly what role they're supposed to be playing as previous patsies (e.g. Zombie guy, Cluedo guy) have been.
Why do people forget what they know about human behaviour when they watch this shit? Do you know ANYBODY who would behave as these people did? See, the stand up/sit down thing with the bell, I can go with. Presumably they're told not to talk to the other people in the room (otherwise you'd just say "why are you doing that?"). That seems reasonable. I'd likely think I missed some instruction because I was daydreaming, or they could engineer that the process of getting into the room seemed disjointed and rushed ("this is Jon, put him in the room. Has he had the briefing? Yeah, think so. Oh you didn't? Nothing major, just fill this out and don't talk to anyone.") Can totally see that people might go with it. I probably would too, if enough people were doing it.
Even Chris isn't some kind of hero because he didn't push the guy, he'd already done so many heinous and immoral things prior to that - even saying "I'm leaving" and wandering off while leaving an innocent man on the roof with a group of people who've just unanimously voted to kill him isn't really that commendable.
Mislabelling the sausage rolls, I probably wouldn't even do that, can see that some people probably would though. Moving a dead body... nope, no way. I'm freaking the fuck out, absolutely going nowhere near it, and probably telling the guy who suggests it to fuck off and probably thinking this cunt should be nowhere near any kind of charity. There is literally no motive for him to do so, no authority figure who's carrying the responsibility for the decisions. IT'S BOLLOCKS IS WHAT IT IS. Absolutely nobody I know would behave like that.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I kind of see what you mean, but I presumed that the point of this show (if there was one) was that you can engineer situations in which (certain) people can be coerced into doing stuff using something more akin to peer pressure rather than pressure from An Authority Figure. Either way, the subject has someone, or something to blame.Jon Corby wrote:I disagree Jim, the show would have been revealing something massively astonishing... if we're expected to take everything at face value. The Milgram experiment is markedly different because the subject is literally following the instructions of the person running the experiment, with constant assurances that everything is perfectly safe and normal. Aside from any personal responsibility one might feel for pushing the button, there would be no other consequences - the responsibility for the other person's welfare lies wholly with the authority figure. That's not the case here.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Doesn't wash here in the slightest though. Tom doesn't have authority, and Chris will know he's entirely culpable for his actions. "Sorry officer, Tom said to stuff the body in the trunk, and he was WEARING A TUX GODDAMMIT."JimBentley wrote:I kind of see what you mean, but I presumed that the point of this show (if there was one) was that you can engineer situations in which (certain) people can be coerced into doing stuff using something more akin to peer pressure rather than pressure from An Authority Figure. Either way, the subject has someone, or something to blame.
Genuinely, do you know anyone who would behave like that?
They knew full well it wasn't real. As I said, what isn't at all clear, is what they thought they were supposed to be doing. Most (all?) of Derren's other patsies just had to be led along, doing exactly as they were told at every turn. Indeed, the other three did just that. Why Chris refused isn't clear, but it sure wasn't because he thought it was a real situation, because his other choices were absurd anyway.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I probably don't know anyone personally who would behave like that, true, but I've met a lot of people who certainly would.Jon Corby wrote:Doesn't wash here in the slightest though. Tom doesn't have authority, and Chris will know he's entirely culpable for his actions. "Sorry officer, Tom said to stuff the body in the trunk, and he was WEARING A TUX GODDAMMIT."JimBentley wrote:I kind of see what you mean, but I presumed that the point of this show (if there was one) was that you can engineer situations in which (certain) people can be coerced into doing stuff using something more akin to peer pressure rather than pressure from An Authority Figure. Either way, the subject has someone, or something to blame.
Genuinely, do you know anyone who would behave like that?
I'm totally open to being persuaded that everything is done via patsies and plants, but where are they? Why haven't they come forward? There must be hundreds of them by now.Jon Corby wrote:They knew full well it wasn't real. As I said, what isn't at all clear, is what they thought they were supposed to be doing. Most (all?) of Derren's other patsies just had to be led along, doing exactly as they were told at every turn. Indeed, the other three did just that. Why Chris refused isn't clear, but it sure wasn't because he thought it was a real situation, because his other choices were absurd anyway.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
You're misunderstanding me Jim. Patsy = mark, target, victim. I don't mean they're plants. I mean they've been to their Derren audition, they know full well they've been through the whole process, they've probably been told the essence of what the show will be about. They've shown that they'll play along with everything they're asked to in order to please Derren. What is unclear is what happens next (maybe they're told they've failed, maybe not, who even knows) but when the weird shit starts going down, they know this is their Derren game. So they either play along, please Derren, and get to be on TV, or they ruin it for everyone.
(What is clear is that they're gagged from discussing it afterwards, as well.)
(What is clear is that they're gagged from discussing it afterwards, as well.)
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I don't believe you, by the way. Be very clear about the exact situation, don't be fooled by Derren explaining to you that Tom is wearing a tux and therefore Chris feels subservient, or that he already carried a bag, so therefore he'll do other things. There is literally no reason whatsoever, no motive, for Chris to do anything with the body. None.JimBentley wrote:I probably don't know anyone personally who would behave like that, true, but I've met a lot of people who certainly would.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Why not? I've met lots and lots of people and have got quite good at recognising sociopaths. These people behave exactly as they please and if they see an advantage in doing something illegal and/or immoral, they don't hesitate.Jon Corby wrote:I don't believe you, by the way.JimBentley wrote:I probably don't know anyone personally who would behave like that, true, but I've met a lot of people who certainly would.
As for the rest of it, I think you're probably right.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
What advantage did Chris gain from moving the body?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Who knows what he was thinking? He was going along with it for some reason that we will never know.Jon Corby wrote:What advantage did Chris gain from moving the body?
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Yeah, him and the other three. Some entirely predictable (by Derren) reason that we will never know. Sigh.JimBentley wrote:Who knows what he was thinking? He was going along with it for some reason that we will never know.Jon Corby wrote:What advantage did Chris gain from moving the body?
(They knew full well it wasn't real.)
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
You may well be right, but until it's proven then it's only another theory. I'm amenable to persuasion; any further evidence for or against would be interesting.Jon Corby wrote:Yeah, him and the other three. Some entirely predictable (by Derren) reason that we will never know. Sigh.JimBentley wrote:Who knows what he was thinking? He was going along with it for some reason that we will never know.Jon Corby wrote:What advantage did Chris gain from moving the body?
(They knew full well it wasn't real.)
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I'm confused though, if you think they thought it was all real, then it what way was it "a load of jumped-the-shark bollocks"? What's your objection?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I don't really have one. I often write things that I could phrase better, especially when I'm drunk. Also I deliberately write things that I don't necessarily believe for no reason other than to get the other side of the argument (which often I can't see before it being pointed out to me).Jon Corby wrote:I'm confused though, if you think they thought it was all real, then it what way was it "a load of jumped-the-shark bollocks"? What's your objection?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I was thinking that some of Derren Brown's more recent programmes have more in common with Beadle's About than anything he did previously.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Except Beadle's about (* alien skit aside) was WAAAY more believable.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
If you Google "Derren Brown" "Beadle's About", you get some relevant hits, so he just needs to master the shrinking hand routine before dying early after having multiple health problems.
Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Beadle was a sound chap, really good egg. Brown's a cunt.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Sleight of hand versus slight of hand.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Harsh.M. George Quinn wrote:Sleight of hand versus slight of hand.
Are you back for good now? How was your 6+ year holiday?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
I'll see how it goes!
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
COMPLIANCE (2012) is on tonight on Film4 at 11-15pm.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Is Derren Brown in it?Steven M. McCann wrote:COMPLIANCE (2012) is on tonight on Film4 at 11-15pm.
meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Derren Brown's last "Special"was all about pressurising people into into doing things they wouldn't normally do by complying.
This film explored the same theme.
This film explored the same theme.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events
Yeah but is Derren Brown in it?Steven M. McCann wrote:Derren Brown's last "Special"was all about pressurising people into into doing things they wouldn't normally do by complying.
This film explored the same theme.