Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Moderator: Jon O'Neill
Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I see Paul Zenon has been doing some good work sticking it to that hideous cunt "Psychic" Sally Morgan, in a Daily Mail article, on This Morning and also on BBC News, following several newspapers running with the story of audience members overhearing her backroom staff feeding her information via an earpiece.
I see also that she is preparing to launch some kind of lawsuit against somebody - what on earth could it be? Do you think it could be against PZ? Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
I see also that she is preparing to launch some kind of lawsuit against somebody - what on earth could it be? Do you think it could be against PZ? Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Presumably she already knows.Jon Corby wrote:Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Nah. These frauds never take it to court because they don't want to be asked about their "powers" while under oath. Reminds me of the Dawkins astrology interview (good bit starts at about 8 mins).Jon Corby wrote:Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
She's apparently upset about this article (particularly the references to Peter Popoff): http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/ ... ars-voicesJon Corby wrote:I see Paul Zenon has been doing some good work sticking it to that hideous cunt "Psychic" Sally Morgan, in a Daily Mail article, on This Morning and also on BBC News, following several newspapers running with the story of audience members overhearing her backroom staff feeding her information via an earpiece.
I see also that she is preparing to launch some kind of lawsuit against somebody - what on earth could it be? Do you think it could be against PZ? Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Is there anything particularly in that article she can contest Lucy, in your opinion? It pretty much just states the whole "some people said they overheard..." thing, then says "it's similar to Popoff...". Surely she can't contest this, it is similar, in that they're both scammers...?Lucy Gowers wrote:She's apparently upset about this article (particularly the references to Peter Popoff): http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/ ... ars-voices
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Paul Zenon jumps several points in my estimation for his sticking the boot in. Psychic Sally will have to fight the legal battle on several fronts now, if she thinks she's got a case - it's all over t'internet, including Youtube footage from her own video of her removing an earpiece. And there was I thinking that mediums really could hear from the dead. Houdini tells me he's pleased.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Excellent. This is quite painful to watch.Brian Moore wrote:Paul Zenon jumps several points in my estimation for his sticking the boot in.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Hahaha - equally splendid. She'd have had as much luck fishing for cod in the Sahara Desert. On the left hand side.Charlie Reams wrote:Excellent. This is quite painful to watch.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I see she's now put out a statement explaining that she wears an earpiece for "stage direction" (?) despite vehemently insisting previously that she only wore a mic and "heard nothing through her ears" as if that were a ludicrous suggestion. (And yet her facebook page is still full of people who believe and don't care a toss for the lies and contradiction. I despair!)
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Your debates on there are amusing and futile.Jon Corby wrote:I see she's now put out a statement explaining that she wears an earpiece for "stage direction" (?) despite vehemently insisting previously that she only wore a mic and "heard nothing through her ears" as if that were a ludicrous suggestion. (And yet her facebook page is still full of people who believe and don't care a toss for the lies and contradiction. I despair!)
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Heh, it was fun for a while, but it is actually scary how stupid some people are. My favourite was something like (said in all seriousness) "if she is being fed stuff through an earpiece, how do they suddenly know so much information about the person that Sally has picked out at random". I mean, how can you not have the brainpower to think about what would really be happening? Even if you don't agree with it or want to believe it, how can you be so wilfully stupid as to not even consider it?Jon O'Neill wrote:Your debates on there are amusing and futile.Jon Corby wrote:I see she's now put out a statement explaining that she wears an earpiece for "stage direction" (?) despite vehemently insisting previously that she only wore a mic and "heard nothing through her ears" as if that were a ludicrous suggestion. (And yet her facebook page is still full of people who believe and don't care a toss for the lies and contradiction. I despair!)
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
And now Charlie's waded in. More entertainment. Of all the groups of people who are going to be impervious to reason and logic, I think Psychic Sally's supporters might be amongst the most resilient, mixing blind faith with stupidity.Jon O'Neill wrote:Your debates on there are amusing and futile.
Oh, I see you've come to a similar conclusion, Jon. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did. As I posted during a lively debate elsewhere "One can't argue with that sort of logic - so I won't."
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Yeah, I've kind of given up after somebody asked me for proof that dead people can't talk to you. How can you even write that and not just go "oh, wait... yeah."Brian Moore wrote:And now Charlie's waded in. More entertainment. Of all the groups of people who are going to be impervious to reason and logic, I think Psychic Sally's supporters might be amongst the most resilient, mixing blind faith with stupidity.Jon O'Neill wrote:Your debates on there are amusing and futile.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I have to admit, I do enjoy those kinds of discussions thoughBrian Moore wrote:Oh, I see you've come to a similar conclusion, Jon. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did.
We don't get them much on here, we have had the odd idiot of that kind of calibre, but they don't tend to last that long.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Full marks for stamina. I haven't got the patience with people that stupid. Still, I expect that they buy lots of Lottery tickets too, so I should be grateful for their contribution to society.Jon Corby wrote:I have to admit, I do enjoy those kinds of discussions thoughBrian Moore wrote:Oh, I see you've come to a similar conclusion, Jon. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did.
We don't get them much on here, we have had the odd idiot of that kind of calibre, but they don't tend to last that long.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
"Charlie Moron you realy need to have a word with yourself, do you honestly think anyone on here or anywhere eles for that matter, actually give two monkeys what comes out of your silly mouth? Maybe 1 day you will be trying to get threw to aloved 1 and need the help of sally, well I hope to god she laughs at you, and the other non belivers, it ceases to amaze me what lengths people will go to to have a dig thrown at someone who actually helps people with broken hearts start to mend, all of you should do your selves a favour and find something worth shouting about bloody idiots....... P.s see you tomorrow sally at bedworth civic hall xx"
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
So it seems we're unanimous that receiving information through an earpiece, and using it to appear to have abilities we don't, all in the name of entertainment, is wrong. Well, I can certainly go along with that. I'm a little surprised that Paul Zenon agrees, though.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
It's hardly the same level of deception though, is it? And anyway, I'm sure it's more for the benefit of the production team than Paul Zenon himself.David Williams wrote:So it seems we're unanimous that receiving information through an earpiece, and using it to appear to have abilities we don't, all in the name of entertainment, is wrong. Well, I can certainly go along with that. I'm a little surprised that Paul Zenon agrees, though.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Maybe not the same level, but it's the same deception, which rather leaves Paul Zenon open to a charge of hypocrisy. And I'm finding it hard to seethe with moral indignation at one while tacitly approving the other. I imagine Psychic Sally has thousands of dead people trying to get her attention, so a bit of surreptitious info about an audience member is a useful way of filtering out the time-wasters.JimBentley wrote:It's hardly the same level of deception though, is it? And anyway, I'm sure it's more for the benefit of the production team than Paul Zenon himself.David Williams wrote:So it seems we're unanimous that receiving information through an earpiece, and using it to appear to have abilities we don't, all in the name of entertainment, is wrong. Well, I can certainly go along with that. I'm a little surprised that Paul Zenon agrees, though.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Sorry but I think they're completely different things. If anyone were to suggest seriously to Paul Zenon (or any other similar act) that their stuff was actual magic and not just some well-practised prestidigitation they'd laugh for a week and point out you'd be bonkers for thinking anything different. Plus they're not exploiting people who are both grieving and frighteningly stupid. Everyone knows illusionists create illusions - it doesn't detract at all from their shows as what they do is still really skillful and entertaining. If you're claiming to have supernatural powers you should at least have the common sense to keep your head down when someone points out you've got pants on fire.David Williams wrote:it's the same deception, which rather leaves Paul Zenon open to a charge of hypocrisy. And I'm finding it hard to seethe with moral indignation at one while tacitly approving the other.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Exactly. It's not hypocrisy for a stage magician to not use real magic and not claim to, and and the same time complain that someone who is claiming to genuinely speak to dead people isn't actually doing so.Lesley Hines wrote:Sorry but I think they're completely different things. If anyone were to suggest seriously to Paul Zenon (or any other similar act) that their stuff was actual magic and not just some well-practised prestidigitation they'd laugh for a week and point out you'd be bonkers for thinking anything different. Plus they're not exploiting people who are both grieving and frighteningly stupid. Everyone knows illusionists create illusions - it doesn't detract at all from their shows as what they do is still really skillful and entertaining. If you're claiming to have supernatural powers you should at least have the common sense to keep your head down when someone points out you've got pants on fire.David Williams wrote:it's the same deception, which rather leaves Paul Zenon open to a charge of hypocrisy. And I'm finding it hard to seethe with moral indignation at one while tacitly approving the other.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I didn't accuse Paul Zenon of claiming to be able to perform magic. I pointed out that he (and every other inhabitant of Dictionary Corner) has information fed to him through an earpiece, which is concealed from the audience.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
You were being too subtle for the likes of me. Very good.David Williams wrote:I didn't accuse Paul Zenon of claiming to be able to perform magic. I pointed out that he (and every other inhabitant of Dictionary Corner) has information fed to him through an earpiece, which is concealed from the audience.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Are you sure the DC guest has an earpiece? I know Susie does, but I'm not sure the same is true of the guest.David Williams wrote:I didn't accuse Paul Zenon of claiming to be able to perform magic. I pointed out that he (and every other inhabitant of Dictionary Corner) has information fed to him through an earpiece, which is concealed from the audience.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Does that then mean I've just inadvertently accused the producers of exploiting the viewers, who are frighteningly stupid?
I don't think it makes any difference, although tbf most DC guests say more 'we' found, rather than 'I', or will credit Susie, and the odd exception will give their own actual declarations. Even so, what they're claiming isn't beyond the bounds of possibility, whereas Psycho Sally is. Also she's being paid handsomely for it from people's own pockets when they'd be better spending their money on a bit of grief counselling or donating it to Cruse. The worst thing is she perpetuates the belief, she's not helping people to come to terms with their loss. Sick and wrong.
I don't think it makes any difference, although tbf most DC guests say more 'we' found, rather than 'I', or will credit Susie, and the odd exception will give their own actual declarations. Even so, what they're claiming isn't beyond the bounds of possibility, whereas Psycho Sally is. Also she's being paid handsomely for it from people's own pockets when they'd be better spending their money on a bit of grief counselling or donating it to Cruse. The worst thing is she perpetuates the belief, she's not helping people to come to terms with their loss. Sick and wrong.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
From the way that some DC guests mangle the pronunciation of words fed by Susie, my guess is that they don't have an earpiece - leading to the comical spectacle of some of them trying to appear clever by saying a long word, but giving away that they have no clue whatsoever what they are reading off Susie's piece of paper. If they have got an earpiece, it would mean that they can't even repeat what they have been told.Graeme Cole wrote:Are you sure the DC guest has an earpiece? I know Susie does, but I'm not sure the same is true of the guest.
At least Paul Zenon pronounces the words right on the whole, even if he never admits that they are not his discovery.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I think you're still confusing two issues here. There's the cheating, for different ends but by pretty similar methods for Dictionary Corner and Psychic Sally. And there's the whole life after death thing. Your second paragraph looks like an inadvertent attack on organised religion!Lesley Hines wrote:Does that then mean I've just inadvertently accused the producers of exploiting the viewers, who are frighteningly stupid?
I don't think it makes any difference, although tbf most DC guests say more 'we' found, rather than 'I', or will credit Susie, and the odd exception will give their own actual declarations. Even so, what they're claiming isn't beyond the bounds of possibility, whereas Psycho Sally is. Also she's being paid handsomely for it from people's own pockets when they'd be better spending their money on a bit of grief counselling or donating it to Cruse. The worst thing is she perpetuates the belief, she's not helping people to come to terms with their loss. Sick and wrong.
Incidentally, isn't "come to terms with" a strange expression? It literally means arriving at a negotiated settlement, but we use it to mean facing up to something that can't be changed - the complete opposite.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Lets hope it was. Religion is wank. Although something tells me David is on a wind up here.David Williams wrote:And there's the whole life after death thing. Your second paragraph looks like an inadvertent attack on organised religion!
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Beat me to itMark James wrote:Lets hope it was. Religion is wank. Although something tells me David is on a wind up here.David Williams wrote:And there's the whole life after death thing. Your second paragraph looks like an inadvertent attack on organised religion!
It wasn't actually what I was thinking at all, although now you come to mention it...
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Wish I'd known what Corby was up to on Facebook so I could have debated it with him. Some of this stuff would be gold dust there. Not enough idiots round here these days.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I think "wonk" is the word of the moment - deployed to good effect by Phil Hammond on Question Time on Thursday. It left Andrew Lansley lost for words.Mark James wrote:Religion is wank.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
If anyone's read or watched Brighton Rock: Psychic Sally reminds me of Ida Arnold so much.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I really enjoyed that. Obviously I was expecting some angry replies since that was the whole fun of it but that was the best one. I like how she's tried to turn the Sally Moron thing back on me but it doesn't make any sense. Heeheehee.Jon Corby wrote:
"Charlie Moron you realy need to have a word with yourself, do you honestly think anyone on here or anywhere eles for that matter, actually give two monkeys what comes out of your silly mouth? Maybe 1 day you will be trying to get threw to aloved 1 and need the help of sally, well I hope to god she laughs at you, and the other non belivers, it ceases to amaze me what lengths people will go to to have a dig thrown at someone who actually helps people with broken hearts start to mend, all of you should do your selves a favour and find something worth shouting about bloody idiots....... P.s see you tomorrow sally at bedworth civic hall xx"
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I see Jon's been back in action.
Is there a reason the most vitriolic and brainless defenders of PS on that page are women? (Oh dear, that sounds horribly sexist - sorry.)
Is there a reason the most vitriolic and brainless defenders of PS on that page are women? (Oh dear, that sounds horribly sexist - sorry.)
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Haha. Do you know why I went back? I got some fan mail from 5 different strangers who were "loving my work" on there. What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.Brian Moore wrote:I see Jon's been back in action.
Is there a reason the most vitriolic and brainless defenders of PS on that page are women? (Oh dear, that sounds horribly sexist - sorry.)
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
A bit like a porn star, then.Jon Corby wrote:Haha. Do you know why I went back? I got some fan mail from 5 different strangers who were "loving my work" on there. What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.Brian Moore wrote:I see Jon's been back in action.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Hahaha, pretty much, yeah!Brian Moore wrote:A bit like a porn star, then.Jon Corby wrote:Haha. Do you know why I went back? I got some fan mail from 5 different strangers who were "loving my work" on there. What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.Brian Moore wrote:I see Jon's been back in action.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Jon Corby wrote:Hahaha, pretty much, yeah!Brian Moore wrote:A bit like Sally Morgan, then.Jon Corby wrote:What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I've now been booted out, and every one of my insertions has been removed from history like it never happened.
(Just like when I was a porn star.)
(Just like when I was a porn star.)
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Guess you didn't see that one coming.Jon Corby wrote:I've now been booted out, and every one of my insertions has been removed from history like it never happened.
(Just like when I was a porn star.)
Also, I have only just read this thread after seeing mention of PS on FB. Very amusing, would read again.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Just like when I was a porn star.Michael Wallace wrote:Guess you didn't see that one coming.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
You reminded me of The Gush for some reason.Jon Corby wrote:Just like when I was a porn star.Michael Wallace wrote:Guess you didn't see that one coming.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Wow, not only can she not read the future, she can't even read the past with any accuracy...Jon Corby wrote:I've now been booted out, and every one of my insertions has been removed from history like it never happened.
(Just like when I was a porn star.)
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
hehehe, very good!Ben Wilson wrote:Wow, not only can she not read the future, she can't even read the past with any accuracy...
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Bah! Gutted! Was enjoying that but reading it on my phone only allows me to back 50 posts. I was going to go back and read it when I some time today at machine. Still, my mum brought me up that it's not nice to laugh at the village idiots. (If they're begging you to though I was prepared to make an exception )
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Lesley, I see that your one post in the Corbythread (TM) hasn't been deleted, despite the fact that it's intelligible and properly punctuated. (Though perhaps your being a woman counts in your favour.)
Incidentally, the Guardian are still on the case, even if it's not new news.
Incidentally, the Guardian are still on the case, even if it's not new news.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Sally's latest post on her Facebook page (which I'm blocked from posting on):
"Went to see Paranormal Activity 3 this afternoon. Luckily I had John and Daren next to me as I was so scared! I jumped the whole way through! xSx"
You'd think she'd be kind of used to that sort of stuff.
"Went to see Paranormal Activity 3 this afternoon. Luckily I had John and Daren next to me as I was so scared! I jumped the whole way through! xSx"
You'd think she'd be kind of used to that sort of stuff.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Love the comment from R2D2.Jon Corby wrote:TV psychic Sally Morgan sues Daily Mail for defamation
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
So how does this work? The Daily Mail have to prove she was faking, right?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
*shines Lucy Gowers shaped symbol into the night sky*Michael Wallace wrote:So how does this work? The Daily Mail have to prove she was faking, right?
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Arf.Jon Corby wrote:*shines Lucy Gowers shaped symbol into the night sky*Michael Wallace wrote:So how does this work? The Daily Mail have to prove she was faking, right?
Sally would have to prove that the article is defamatory of her. The definition used by the courts of whether something is defamatory is that it must "tend to lower [her] in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally".
Once she's done that, Michael's right that the Mail/PZ must either prove the truth of the article or show that they can benefit from one of the defamation defences (eg that it's fair comment or it's subject to qualified privilege because it's in the public interest).
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Holy crap, the symbol works!
Thanks Lucy. How do you see it panning out? I know OFCOM issued new guidelines including the following:
Thanks Lucy. How do you see it panning out? I know OFCOM issued new guidelines including the following:
but I assume that doesn't directly apply (or can it all be intertwined - some shows are filmed for TV etc?) Isn't the counter-position to Paul's that she is what she claims (and therefore in breach of the regulations)? Or am I oversimplifying and/or missing the genuine point of contention?Psychic readings cannot stray beyond the carefully circumscribed area of entertainment and should never be presented as reliable, substantiated or offering anything other than a form of entertainment.
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
That's really interesting. The problem I guess is that right-thinking members of society are likely to think what she does is bunkum anyway, no?Lucy Gowers wrote:Sally would have to prove that the article is defamatory of her. The definition used by the courts of whether something is defamatory is that it must "tend to lower [her] in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally".
Man, I so hope they can prove the truth. Some of these creeps want outing. It's just a shame there are people (some of whom I know personally!) who will continue to believe for evermore that it's somehow wrong to be cynical.
Quotes from several friends who have seen her live:
"Yes, but she's amazing. When you're there you absolutely know she's speaking the truth." Like, dur. Of course she is - that's why she has researchers.
"She knew everything about [some dead relly of one of their friends] and didn't speak to anyone. It was great cos [friend] really wanted to hear from them." "Did friend discuss this on the way in?" "Oh yes, it was why we went."
"You either believe or you don't."
*Bangs head against wall*
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
So what is the standard excuse for not proving your abilities if you're a psychic? Is it just that their powers are a bit random so they might not work all the time?
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Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
I've heard that some are afraid to prove it conclusively because the powers that be wouldn't like it and they'd be experimented on or killed or something.Michael Wallace wrote:So what is the standard excuse for not proving your abilities if you're a psychic? Is it just that their powers are a bit random so they might not work all the time?