Return of the Awesome Dudes

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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Charlie Reams »

Just doing some more data validation and I noticed that the recap for 20 October 2006 actually points to the wrong game, and I can't find the original recap. Anyone want to redo it?
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

Charlie Reams wrote:Just doing some more data validation and I noticed that the recap for 20 October 2006 actually points to the wrong game, and I can't find the original recap. Anyone want to redo it?
I'll sort it. ;) :) :D
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Done. The next 21 episodes now. That's November 3 - December 1 1987.
Done, as well as that little bonus from Charlie above. The last 21 of Series 14 to go now. That's December 2 - 25 1987.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Clive Brooker »

The statistics discussed in recent days lean heavily on the available max scores. As I've mentioned a few times on here, the historical recaps tend to be unfair to the players of the time because many of the max words listed wouldn't have been allowed when the games were played. The recent example in Stephen Balment's debut game has been amended, but that's just one amongst hundreds.

Just to give one example, in Derek Coombs's first game the recap implies that he could have had SALMONIDS, which didn't appear until the 9th COD. That alone has quite an impact on his ratio.

Some time ago, when the recapping of series 41 (the last to use COD9 alone) was almost finished, I had a look at a “sample” of about 75 games. Roughly a third of the max words found by the recapping tool weren't in the COD9. Often it didn't affect the overall stats because there would be another word of the same length, but almost every other game had a round where this was not the case and the max available score was overstated.

The work done to get all the round-by-round details recapped and available is brilliant, but I find it hard to believe that this group would want to conclude the historical recap project when so much approximation is built into the system. Mike Brown has seemed to stand alone in excluding words not valid when the game was played from the recap, so Mike, I'm particularly interested to hear your views!
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

Clive Brooker wrote:<snip>

The work done to get all the round-by-round details recapped and available is brilliant, but I find it hard to believe that this group would want to conclude the historical recap project when so much approximation is built into the system. Mike Brown has seemed to stand alone in excluding words not valid when the game was played from the recap, so Mike, I'm particularly interested to hear your views!
I'm sure most, if not all, of those involved in the Historical Recap project would like to see maxes accurately reflect the valid words of the time, but we're obviously hampered by a lack of the relevant dictionaries. I do have a copy of each of them, so I've been removing the invalid words in my COD7 recaps as I go along (I may, of course, be missing some valid ones not in the Recap Checker). In time, I would hope we can go through all the recaps on the wiki and weed out the other invalid words, but this will of course take some time and comes somewhere down the priority list. Fancy doing some of the COD9 ones?? :)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by David Williams »

There may be a problem. Mike will probably know better than me, but I think words that were not in the dictionary were sometimes allowed - particular the -IER and -IEST suffixes. I recall in particular this major injustice.
http://www.apterous.org/cdb/game.php?game=5892
DROSSIER was a desperation move - and it's not specified.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Clive Brooker »

In the COD7, two syllable adjectives ending in -Y were treated as regular, so DROSSIER, LARDIEST, etc. were fine whether specified or not. This changed in the COD8, but I'd guess that a decision was taken to continue with the COD7 rule. On the evidence of how LARDIEST has been treated over the years, it looks as though this practice continued until the switch to the NODE. On that basis I'd say it was correct to allow DROSSIER.

So if we want to make the recaps accurately match what would have been available at the time, part of the challenge is to identify any house rules which have been used. Interesting, but not impossible.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Clive Brooker »

Mike Brown wrote:In time, I would hope we can go through all the recaps on the wiki and weed out the other invalid words, but this will of course take some time and comes somewhere down the priority list. Fancy doing some of the COD9 ones?? :)
I'd do this if I thought it was the most helpful thing to do.

What I'm imagining is the situation when all round-by-round details have been put in recaps. It is known that most historical recaps have used the "wrong" dictionary and that a few have been amended to exclude words known to have been invalid at the time. It is also very difficult to tell which method has been used for any particular recap.

Presumably, if reliable word-lists were to exist for each COD edition, it would be reasonably straightforward to regenerate all the recaps en masse? My guess is that such a list exists for the NODE, but probably not for any of the CODs. So, what I'd really like to do is to begin creating a COD10 list from the NODE. Obviously the COD10 is of limited use for the recap project, but it should be a pure subset of the NODE and so provides the easiest step-down to a list of COD dimensions.

Before my enthusiasm drains away completely, can someone provide me with the NODE list?
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by David Williams »

Clive Brooker wrote:In the COD7, two syllable adjectives ending in -Y were treated as regular, so DROSSIER, LARDIEST, etc. were fine whether specified or not. This changed in the COD8, but I'd guess that a decision was taken to continue with the COD7 rule. On the evidence of how LARDIEST has been treated over the years, it looks as though this practice continued until the switch to the NODE. On that basis I'd say it was correct to allow DROSSIER.

So if we want to make the recaps accurately match what would have been available at the time, part of the challenge is to identify any house rules which have been used. Interesting, but not impossible.
I was on in August 2000, and had LARDIEST disallowed, despite it having been allowed before, and there having been, as far as I knew, no change in the rules, and no change in the relevant pages in the dictionary. The rules were quite specific - if it's not in the dictionary, it's not allowed. My recording date was in June, however, a few days before the previous series finals were shown, so DROSSIER being allowed was a surprise to me. If they did change custom and practice at that time, they certainly didn't tell contestants.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Clive Brooker »

David Williams wrote:If they did change custom and practice at that time, they certainly didn't tell contestants.
This wouldn't surprise me at all! Lardier/Lardiest were first introduced as part of the main definition in the ODE2, but the guidance notes I received in May 2009 specifically cited lardiest as an example of word that wouldn't be allowed because it isn't listed explicitly. Only 5 years out of date!

The evidence of a change in practice looks pretty conclusive to me. Lardiest was repeatedly allowed, as well as frequently being offered by DC, during the lifetime of the COD8 and COD9, but was invariably ruled out under the NODE.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by David Williams »

I don't know if it's still the case, but there is one instance where they did allow words that are not in the dictionary. Having read the rules I specifically asked Damian about words like ANODISER. The entry in the NODE is for ANODIZE, with ANODISE as an alternative spelling, and ANODIZER as a derivative, but no alternative spelling shown. Damian confirmed it was fine, and amazingly it came up in one of my games - and Susie had a very long think before allowing it. Indicative perhaps of a change in approach at that time, because it's never been an issue before or since.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Clive Brooker wrote:Presumably, if reliable word-lists were to exist for each COD edition, it would be reasonably straightforward to regenerate all the recaps en masse? My guess is that such a list exists for the NODE, but probably not for any of the CODs. So, what I'd really like to do is to begin creating a COD10 list from the NODE. Obviously the COD10 is of limited use for the recap project, but it should be a pure subset of the NODE and so provides the easiest step-down to a list of COD dimensions.

Before my enthusiasm drains away completely, can someone provide me with the NODE list?
Why do you think it would be a subset of the NODE? Things go in or out of the dictionary. For example, OUTRANGE has been allowed pre-NODE and post-NODE, but it's not in the NODE.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Clive Brooker »

Gavin Chipper wrote:Why do you think it (COD10) would be a subset of the NODE? Things go in or out of the dictionary. For example, OUTRANGE has been allowed pre-NODE and post-NODE, but it's not in the NODE.
I've always assumed it would be because it was based on the NODE (published a year earlier) rather than being a revision of the COD9. So it's hard to see why it should contain much stuff that isn't in the NODE.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Charlie Reams »

Clive Brooker wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Why do you think it (COD10) would be a subset of the NODE? Things go in or out of the dictionary. For example, OUTRANGE has been allowed pre-NODE and post-NODE, but it's not in the NODE.
I've always assumed it would be because it was based on the NODE (published a year earlier) rather than being a revision of the COD9. So it's hard to see why it should contain much stuff that isn't in the NODE.
Yeah, that would make sense but I still wouldn't assume it. If you're in the business of trying to be absolutely correct then you'd need to do it from scratch.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Done, as well as that little bonus from Charlie above. The last 21 of Series 14 to go now. That's December 2 - 25 1987.
SERIES 14: DONE :D

43 episodes in Series 13, so I'll take the July episodes first. That's July 1 - 31 1987. 23 episodes. 8-)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Do you reckon someone is going to be a bastard and wait until there is one historical recap left to be done and then do it? Like the twatty people who watch you do a 1000 piece jigsaw but hide a piece and then place it in once the other 999 have been done.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

Ryan Taylor wrote:Do you reckon someone is going to be a bastard and wait until there is one historical recap left to be done and then do it? Like the twatty people who watch you do a 1000 piece jigsaw but hide a piece and then place it in once the other 999 have been done.
In fairness, that probably will happen, because there will still be gaps, even after we finish Mike's notes. I think he told me last night that there are at least 50 with no info, and about another 100 with incomplete information.

My signature notes how many completed recaps there are left to do.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:43 episodes in Series 13, so I'll take the July episodes first. That's July 1 - 31 1987. 23 episodes. 8-)
Done. So, the August episodes to do. That's August 3 - 28 1987. 20 episodes.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

Only 399 to go, apparently.... :)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Ryan Taylor wrote:Do you reckon someone is going to be a bastard and wait until there is one historical recap left to be done and then do it? Like the twatty people who watch you do a 1000 piece jigsaw but hide a piece and then place it in once the other 999 have been done.
People book out whole sections so James won't say "I'll have 19 of the last 20 games" or something. Although I suppose someone might book one earlier and just be really slow at doing it.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Thomas Carey »

Mike Brown wrote:Only 399 to go, apparently.... :)
8 of which belong to the load I booked in February :o . Doing 2 a day now, so I won't end up with the last one(s) and everyone getting really pissed off at me.
cheers maus
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Done. So, the August episodes to do. That's August 3 - 28 1987. 20 episodes.
SERIES 13: DONE :D

Next up, Championship Of Champions III.

Followed by, the first 25 (with the exception of Episode 2, which I've already done) of Series 12. That's April 13 - May 15 1987.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Joseph Krol »

I'll take an advance order for episodes M11-M20, which I will make a start on after Series 10. (Assuming I don't go back to regular 'caps, my sum total of regular recaps will be about two series and a half.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Next up, Championship Of Champions III.

Followed by, the first 25 (with the exception of Episode 2, which I've already done) of Series 12. That's April 13 - May 15 1987.
Done.

Already done the next 5, so the final 20 to finish. That's May 25 - June 19 1987.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Johnny Canuck »

I've finally gotten around to editing all my recaps from Series 28 and 33. All "boxed" words have been changed from DC to OT. (I would have appreciated if somebody could have pointed out what I was doing wrong earlier, but it's alright now.)

On a side note, the dictionary that I was using for my OT words was the current one (whichever one is in the recap writer). If someone could check my recaps against the COD8 or whatever dictionary was being used at the time, it would be a favour.

I might try CoC II a bit later.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Gavin Chipper »

James Robinson wrote:
James Robinson wrote:Next up, Championship Of Champions III.

Followed by, the first 25 (with the exception of Episode 2, which I've already done) of Series 12. That's April 13 - May 15 1987.
Done.

Already done the next 5, so the final 20 to finish. That's May 25 - June 19 1987.
Where's QF1 in CofC III?
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Johnny Canuck »

Gavin Chipper wrote:Where's QF1 in CofC III?
It's missing (and marked as "Missed") in the scans. (Although it does mention that Harvey Freeman solved the conundrum in less than 1 second.)
I'm not dead yet. In a rut right now because of stress from work. I'll be back later in S89. I also plan to bring back the Mastergram - if I can find a way to run a timer or clock through pure MediaWiki without having to upload to Vimeo every time.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Already done the next 5, so the final 20 to finish. That's May 25 - June 19 1987.
SERIES 12: DONE :D

Onto Series 11 - 49 episodes to do. The first 24 are booked out. That's February 3 - March 6 1987.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Onto Series 11 - 49 episodes to do. The first 24 are booked out. That's February 3 - March 6 1987.
Done.

The 2nd half of Series 11 now. That's March 9 - April 10 1987.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Joseph Krol »

SERIES 10: DONE :)

Now to start on the Masters.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:The 2nd half of Series 11 now. That's March 9 - April 10 1987.
SERIES 11: DONE :D

Next up, CoC II, followed by the first 20 of 40 episodes in Series 9. That's April 9 - May 6 1986.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Next up, CoC II, followed by the first 20 of 40 episodes in Series 9. That's April 9 - May 6 1986.
Done.

Now the final 20 episodes of Series 9. That's May 7 - June 3 1986.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Now the final 20 episodes of Series 9. That's May 7 - June 3 1986.
SERIES 9: DONE :D

That didn't take long, did it :?: :lol:

So, because of Mike's less-than-legible earlier series recaps, there's just Series 8 left to go for me. All 58 of them, presumably......

So, beginning with the first 20, that's January 6 - 31 1986.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

James Robinson wrote:So, because of Mike's less-than-legible earlier series recaps, there's just Series 8 left to go for me. All 58 of them, presumably......

So, beginning with the first 20, that's January 6 - 31 1986.
Some of those are pretty hard to read too, James, so have fun! I would say I might pick some of them up, but I'll probably mop up the bits and pieces from Series 2 first, and by then you'll probably have finished them all! :)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

Mike Brown wrote:
James Robinson wrote:So, because of Mike's less-than-legible earlier series recaps, there's just Series 8 left to go for me. All 58 of them, presumably......

So, beginning with the first 20, that's January 6 - 31 1986.
Some of those are pretty hard to read too, James, so have fun! I would say I might pick some of them up, but I'll probably mop up the bits and pieces from Series 2 first, and by then you'll probably have finished them all! :)
Well, there are the Masters ones to do, and there are quite a few of those, so not quite all done.

But to get all the regular ones done will be quite something. ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

James Robinson wrote:But to get all the regular ones done will be quite something. ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)
There's also the last few weeks of Series 7 outstanding if you get bored...
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

I'll help James out by doing the 20 between 3 and 28 February 1986.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:So, beginning with the first 20, that's January 6 - 31 1986.
Done.

So, since Rhys has got the next 20, it's just the last 19 for me, with the exception of the 2 semis, which Rhys has also done.

That's March 3 - 27 1986.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

SERIES 3 DONE (well, as much of it as I could!)

Into the even murkier waters of Series 2 next for me, and I'll be starting with the quarter-finals. Should be fun!
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:That's March 3 - 27 1986.
My bit of Series 8: DONE.

Series 7 next, but there are actually only 8 episodes to do.

So, will probably get those done within the next few hours or so. 8-)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:
James Robinson wrote:That's March 3 - 27 1986.
My bit of Series 8: DONE.

Series 7 next, but there are actually only 8 episodes to do.

So, will probably get those done within the next few hours or so. 8-)
Part of Series 7: DONE.

So, that's all the main series done at my end.

All that's left are the episodes booked out by Rhys and Thomas, and the episodes that only Mike can do.

So, that just leaves the Masters Series. I'll take M21-40.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

Finals of SERIES 2 DONE. :)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

Just thought I'd comment that it's now a year to the day since we started the mass recapping of Series 48 and I'm stunned by the progress we've made in that time. Only a handful of the episodes we have available to us are still outstanding to do, plus some Countdown Masters. I know a lot of this is down to a certain Mr Robinson (to whom I extend a large public 'thank you'), but I'd also like to put on record that everyone who has taken part in this project is, indeed, an 'awesome dude'.

Hopefully, more of the gaps will gradually get filled in and I'm optimistic that we will have full recaps for all bar about 140 programmes before too long and some kind of recap for almost every programme from the second series onwards (which would give us a cdb completeness level of around 99.5%). Fingers crossed!
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:So, that just leaves the Masters Series. I'll take M21-40.
Done.

Next up, the last of Series 1, that's M41-52.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:Next up, the last of Series 1, that's M41-52.
MASTERS SERIES 1: DONE :D (Well, my bit anyway.)

So, just Masters Series 2 to do. Starting with M53-75.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:So, just Masters Series 2 to do. Starting with M53-75.
Done.

The last lot will be booked out now, that's M76-104, although there are a few unreleased episodes in there, so I don't think there'll be 29 episodes, probably nearer 20.

Either which way, the end is nigh..........
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Joseph Krol »

♫♪♫ And now the end is near
And so we face the final curtain
My friends, we'll say it clear
We'll state our case of which we're certain

The database is nearly full
We've used broadband and dial-up (which is crap)
And wifi + much more than this and now
We've done all recaps

PC crashes, we've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
We did every one we booked to do
And typed it out without exemption

We used Acrobat Reader
Downloaded PDF-reading apps
And by using programs like this
We've done all recaps ♫♪♫
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Joseph Krol »

Joseph Krol wrote:♫♪♫ And now the end is near
And so we face the final curtain
My friends, we'll say it clear
We'll state our case of which we're certain

The database is nearly full
We've used broadband and dial-up (which is crap)
And wifi + much more than this and now
We've done all recaps

PC crashes, we've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
We did every one we booked to do
And typed it out without exemption

We used Acrobat Reader
Downloaded PDF-reading apps
And by using programs like this
We've done all recaps ♫♪♫
And that is a 900th post.
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

Joseph Krol wrote:♫♪♫ And now the end is near
And so we face the final curtain
My friends, we'll say it clear
We'll state our case of which we're certain
** LIKE **
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Thomas Carey
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Thomas Carey »

Joseph Krol wrote:♫♪♫ And now the end is near
And so we face the final curtain
My friends, we'll say it clear
We'll state our case of which we're certain

The database is nearly full
We've used broadband and dial-up (which is crap)
And wifi + much more than this and now
We've done all recaps

PC crashes, we've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
We did every one we booked to do
And typed it out without exemption

We used Acrobat Reader
Downloaded PDF-reading apps
And by using programs like this
We've done all recaps ♫♪♫
This is a mixture of my favourite song and my favourite website! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
cheers maus
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Rhys Benjamin
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Please feel free to finish off my Masters stint.
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James Robinson
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

James Robinson wrote:The last lot will be booked out now, that's M76-104, although there are a few unreleased episodes in there, so I don't think there'll be 29 episodes, probably nearer 20.

Either which way, the end is nigh..........
Well, that's my lot done and dusted.
Rhys Benjamin wrote:Please feel free to finish off my Masters stint.
So, I'll do M3-M10 to finish off the job. :D
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James Robinson
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

COMPLETION!!!!!

Well, I'm all out of recaps. My work is done. ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)

So, tidy up on the wiki will be by next job, which will take me many, many hours, but will be nice to have an even more relaxing job to do. 8-)
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Well done James, and everyone else involved of course, like Mike for providing all the raw data, collected over 77 years.
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Rhys Benjamin
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Nearly done and my recap speed is very good - one niner can now be done in around 10 minutes.
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Matt Morrison
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Matt Morrison »

+1 you geeky excellences
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Thomas Carey
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Thomas Carey »

James Robinson wrote:COMPLETION!!!!!
Uh, I've still got five to do...
cheers maus
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James Robinson
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by James Robinson »

Thomas Carey wrote:
James Robinson wrote:COMPLETION!!!!!
Uh, I've still got five to do...
Yeah, I know, hence I said that I have no more to do.
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Thomas Carey
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Thomas Carey »

James Robinson wrote:
Thomas Carey wrote:
James Robinson wrote:COMPLETION!!!!!
Uh, I've still got five to do...
Yeah, I know, hence I said that I have no more to do.
Oh. Please say I'm not the only one with incomplete recaps...
cheers maus
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Mike Brown
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Re: Return of the Awesome Dudes

Post by Mike Brown »

James Robinson wrote:COMPLETION!!!!!

Well, I'm all out of recaps. My work is done. ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)

So, tidy up on the wiki will be by next job, which will take me many, many hours, but will be nice to have an even more relaxing job to do. 8-)
S'pose you could add the max words for the Series 2 progs as they get added - and maybe do partial c4c recaps for - if you fancy it. :) I've got a few of the contestants' scores and words from the qualifiers that I've yet to add and will probably do partial recaps for in the next week or two.
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