Apterous FA Cup

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:42 pm

Just Go With It.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:38 pm

So, the draw is today at 5. I will allow for some SMALL leeway/overrunning etc., but if lags behind too much I'll just give the place to the higher ranked person.

Please offer feedback on this tournament so far!

Innis Carson · Post by **Innis Carson** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:46 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:but if lags behind too much I'll just give the place to the higher ranked person.

Please offer feedback on this tournament so far!

So the top ranked player could just refuse to play at all, and automatically win the tournament?

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Ah. Minor modifications may be needed to that statement.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:09 pm

My timer was set by me for 10 minutes too early - Sorry!

Matt Morrison v Ian Dent
Eoin Monaghan v Phil Collinge
Kai Laddiman v Jamie French
James Robinson v Martyn Simpson
Thomas Cappleman v Adam Gillard
Graeme Cole v Ned Pendleton
Kirk Bevins v Edward McCullagh
Niall Seymour v Martin Long
Ben Wilson v Ryan Taylor
Tracy Mills v Ian Volante
Karen Pearson v James Hall
Milo McKenzie v Lee Kelly
Thomas Carey v Oliver Garner
James Levison v Matthew Tassier
James Bradley v Jayne Wisniewksi
Joseph Krol v Chris Davies

GOOD LUCK! Now get playing!

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:49 pm

Rhys,

Matt and I played each other. I managed to win 73-70.

I'm playing the Owl thing now just to test it out. Sorry to mess you about but we wanted to play the match properly.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:03 pm

Not that I was proper. THat was fucking awful.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:41 pm

Then what do you want me to do? Look at Chris and Joseph, who've been owled, but if I knot the scores together, than Chris wins. I'm sorry Ian, but since I've accepted Joseph, who won on the owl, I am going to put Matt through. Sorry!

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:05 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:Then what do you want me to do? Look at Chris and Joseph, who've been owled, but if I knot the scores together, than Chris wins. I'm sorry Ian, but since I've accepted Joseph, who won on the owl, I am going to put Matt through. Sorry!

What is this? I have to admit I don't really know much about what's going on but I thought the "Tourney Owl" was for when people couldn't find each other to play by the deadline so they played the same game a duel type way.

Matt and Ian did actually play each other properly. This isn't knotting the scores together.

What if Ian hadn't played the Owl at all? (Matt played it before ther game.)

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:35 am

I won our match, therefore I go through.

Thanks.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:43 am

So the teams still in are Torquay, Blackburn, Scunthorpe or Swindon, Bradford or Halesowen, Reading, Leicester, Bristol Rovers, Tottenham Hotspur, Hyde, Hereford, Derby, Notts County or Leyton Orient, Hull, Newcastle, Norwich and Preston.

The unfinished games: Please get on to them!

The matches to be played are:
Karen Pearson v James Hall
Niall Seymour v Tourney Owl
Lee Kelly v Tourney Owl.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:44 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:Then what do you want me to do? Look at Chris and Joseph, who've been owled, but if I knot the scores together, than Chris wins. I'm sorry Ian, but since I've accepted Joseph, who won on the owl, I am going to put Matt through. Sorry!

I stand by my guns.

Adam Gillard · Post by **Adam Gillard** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:15 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:Then what do you want me to do? Look at Chris and Joseph, who've been owled, but if I knot the scores together, than Chris wins. I'm sorry Ian, but since I've accepted Joseph, who won on the owl, I am going to put Matt through. Sorry!
What is this? I have to admit I don't really know much about what's going on but I thought the "Tourney Owl" was for when people couldn't find each other to play by the deadline so they played the same game a duel type way.

Matt and Ian did actually play each other properly. This isn't knotting the scores together.

What if Ian hadn't played the Owl at all? (Matt played it before ther game.)

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
I stand by my guns.

Seriously? I think you've totally missed the point of Tourney Owl, Rhys. Joseph vs Chris is not a precedent because they didn't "actually play each other properly".

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:27 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:So the teams still in are Torquay, Blackburn, Scunthorpe or Swindon, Bradford or Halesowen, Reading, Leicester, Bristol Rovers, Tottenham Hotspur, Hyde, Hereford, Derby, Notts County or Leyton Orient, Hull, Newcastle, Norwich and Preston.

The unfinished games: Please get on to them!

The matches to be played are:
Karen Pearson v James Hall
Niall Seymour v Tourney Owl
Lee Kelly v Tourney Owl.

James and I have been in touch but we've missed each other the last two nights. Hopefully we'll managed it tonight.

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:56 am

What's the point of this tournament then?

It's just a daily duel.

Phil Collinge · Post by **Phil Collinge** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:02 pm

Ian Dent wrote:What's the point of this tournament then?

It's just a daily duel.

It's worse than that though Ian, as myself and Eoin didn't even have the same selections.

I'd agree with Gevin that Tourney Owl should be used a last resort, and only be available once all attempts to schedule have failed. If it's going to be available on Day 1 then once one player has completed, the other has no choice but to do the same or face default.

For my part Tourney Owl almost certainly led to the same outcome, but that's beside the point. I was really looking forward to playing a series finalist in a tournament and am more than a little disappointed that I wasn't able to do so.

For Joseph, I imagine he's equally disappointed that he wasn't able to play Chris in a tournament match, let alone have the opportunity to beat him fairly.

Re Ian and Matt, well that situation is just absurd. The match was played. Ian won. Matt lost. Matt is awarded the tie. Rolls eyes.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:52 pm

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:51 pm

Thanks.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:55 pm

I still get pissed off every time I see this thread. I played really well against the Owl and tonked Ian and was in a shit mood when we got together and played our game.
Unfortunately though, fair's fair, I said to Ian the result would count and so be it. Mind you if it wasn't Ian I'd probably say let's have a decider to settle it.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:30 pm

So am I right in understanding that the Tourney Owl is available right from the start of the round? I think Rhys's problem with the Ian/Matt situation is that as the Tourney Owl was used, this removed the match game option (is this what happened? I dunno) so "officially" Matt won. But presumably this would mean that any individual could sabotage their head to head by just selecting the Tourney Owl before their opponent shows up.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:42 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:So am I right in understanding that the Tourney Owl is available right from the start of the round? I think Rhys's problem with the Ian/Matt situation is that as the Tourney Owl was used, this removed the match game option (is this what happened? I dunno) so "officially" Matt won. But presumably this would mean that any individual could sabotage their head to head by just selecting the Tourney Owl before their opponent shows up.

2-3 days after the match has been announced and not played. i think rhys said 2 days somewhere. lower case

Phil Collinge · Post by **Phil Collinge** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:21 am

Matt Morrison wrote:2-3 days after the match has been announced and not played. i think rhys said 2 days somewhere. lower case

The draw was made on the evening of the 8th, the first completed Tourney Owl game was 00.15 on 10th, therefore only 1 clear day to play before it pops up.

My match was scheduled for 14.30 on 10th, Eoin completed his Tourney Owl at 14.24. Had Tourney Owl not been available (and encouraging him to accept the challenge as the Duel does) then he no doubt would have waited until I arrived (not that anyone knew any better at that point as 8 others had already played the Owl).

If playing Tourney Owl mode didn't eradicate the facility to actually play the match proper, and if the selections could be guaranteed to be identical, then this might work. On this occasion it hasn't.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:54 am

James, Karen, since this is the last day, I will "let" you play the Tourney Owl, even though it's not ideal.

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:30 am

Forgive me if I'm being thick but I don't understand the point of Tourney Owl. I thought it would be like to Duel where the selections are pre-set but, I've just played it and I was allowed to make selections every other round just like I would against Apterous Prune. So, either James gets the same rounds that I've just selected (which doesn't seem fair) or he gets to choose different selections - which also doesn't seem much like a level playing field.

I am left feeling somewhat disillusioned.

James Robinson · Post by **James Robinson** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:39 am

Karen Pearson wrote:I am left feeling somewhat disillusioned.

You're not the only one, Karen.

I played Tourney Owl having no idea what it was so just had the occasional random guess in there like when I play Prune, hence my early departure.

Still, I was Leeds, so good riddance.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:44 am

That's the magic of the FA Cup!

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:09 pm

James Robinson wrote: Still, I was Leeds, so good riddance.

Oi!! You can go off people!!!

(Cue a bit of minor flouncing off!)

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:17 pm

Graeme Cole v Niall Seymour or Martin Long
Adam Gillard v Oliver Garner
Karen Pearson or James Hall v Ryan Taylor
Matt Morrison v Jayne Wisniewski
Joseph Krol v Martyn Simpson
Milo McKenzie v Eoin Monaghan
Ian Volante v Kirk Bevins
Kai Laddiman v Matthew Tassier

Get playing!

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:28 pm

Rhys, I will play Jayne.

Thanks.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:43 pm

Ian Dent wrote:Rhys, I will play Jayne.

Thanks.

Me and Ian should just keep both playing everyone we/I/he gets drawn against until one of us loses.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:45 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Ian Dent wrote:Rhys, I will play Jayne.

Thanks.
Me and Ian should just keep both playing everyone we/I/he gets drawn against until one of us loses.

That won't be long.

Jamie French · Post by **Jamie French** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:19 pm

Karen Pearson wrote:Forgive me if I'm being thick but I don't understand the point of Tourney Owl. I thought it would be like to Duel where the selections are pre-set but, I've just played it and I was allowed to make selections every other round just like I would against Apterous Prune. So, either James gets the same rounds that I've just selected (which doesn't seem fair) or he gets to choose different selections - which also doesn't seem much like a level playing field.

I am left feeling somewhat disillusioned.

This happened to me as well. The max in my game was 118 and Kai scored 137 in his!

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:26 pm

I played Jayne and here is the game - http://www.apterous.org/viewgame.php?game=433606 -

Thanks Rhys.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:24 pm

Ian Dent wrote:I played Jayne and here is the game - http://www.apterous.org/viewgame.php?game=433606 -

Thanks Rhys.

Excellent.

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:30 am

Am I through?

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:04 am

As soon as James plays his half, or it gets to Wednesday.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:06 am

Ian, if you could replay Jayne that would be helpful, but I will not say why.

I added the game to the system JUST after you played it

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:28 am

This plot is so thick, I love it! It's like a murder mystery without the murder and with extra mystery.

How about a worder mystery?

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:29 am

oh bollocks

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:51 am

I will not replay Jayne.

I am being victimised in this FA Cup.

I've simply won both my games, this should suffice.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:52 am

Matt, when you "made" AptoSOS, how did you recall all the played games?

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:24 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Matt, when you "made" AptoSOS, how did you recall all the played games?

The lovely Charlie sorted it for me I think - aptoSOS had started before the tournament system rolled out if I recall, so he put the first few games into the system before I even knew what was going on. I've had one or two hiccups since then and had to ask Charlie to kindly manually enter the scores slash link to the games. Hopefully that sort of control will be granted to tourney admins at some point.

Joseph Krol · Post by **Joseph Krol** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:22 pm

I beat martyn Simpson 111-101 in a crucial conundrum. (Not bragging or owt but I'm doing a bit of giant killing in this tourney)

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:19 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:As soon as James plays his half, or it gets to Wednesday.

Well apparently the Tourney Owl has disappeared for James so we're going to have a go at playing our game this evening. Although I suspect my score will probably end up being an average of the two scores I've had or something like that (I have given up trying to understand this tournament and the scoring - Not that it matters much as I expect to get a good hiding from James).

I must confess that I thought the deadline for this round was Friday and that's why I'd had a rather 'direct' (snotty) email about playing the game! Perhaps we could have an update on the schedule for this competition.

P.S. If I sound grumpy, it's because I am. I have a bad cold, had to play a golf match today and have now had a couple of glasses of wine (medicinal of course!) - I think maybe I'll steer clear of the 'Off Topic' thread for the time being!

James Hall · Post by **James Hall** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:12 pm

Sorry to all about my lack of appearances recently! (Specially Karen, Rhys and Ryan T.) Situation now rectified, and Karen and I should play a proper game tomorrow.

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:49 am

We managed it at last.

James Hall 82 - 84 Karen Pearson
http://www.apterous.org/viewgame.php?game=435114

James should have won it really but had a word disallowed and bottled RATOONED in round 13. So this is really the equivalent of Halesowen Town beating Bradford City because the keeper fumbled the ball into his own net after a bit of a messy goalmouth scramble.

Bring on Naaarich!

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:56 am

I played and beat Jayne last night so me and Ian both go on

It's an awesome set up.
I presume if one of us wins and the other doesn't, the winner and the opponent play again for a decider to go through. Epic.

Matthew Tassier · Post by **Matthew Tassier** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:11 am

Matt Morrison wrote:I played and beat Jayne last night so me and Ian both go on It's an awesome set up.
I presume if one of us wins and the other doesn't, the winner and the opponent play again for a decider to go through. Epic.

Rhys wrote:Ian, if you could replay Jayne that would be helpful, but I will not say why.

Presumably if Jayne were to win that then all 3 of you would be through?

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:14 am

Matthew Tassier wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:I played and beat Jayne last night so me and Ian both go on It's an awesome set up.
I presume if one of us wins and the other doesn't, the winner and the opponent play again for a decider to go through. Epic.

Rhys wrote:Ian, if you could replay Jayne that would be helpful, but I will not say why.
Presumably if Jayne were to win that then all 3 of you would be through?

haha, the Ian-Jayne replay was because they played before Rhys had put the game in the system, but the replay was cancelled and I presume Rhys has asked Charlie to update it manually.
I think the "me or Ian?" thing ends up being that our opponent has two chances and we have one. It kinda makes sense in my head and is enjoyably hilarious.

Karen Pearson · Post by **Karen Pearson** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:48 am

Karen Pearson 98 - 103 Ryan Taylor

http://www.apterous.org/viewgame.php?game=435147

Halesowen Town's glory was short-lived! The first half was better when the Norwich City manager was distracted by This Morning! It was an enjoyable game though, not least because the Norwich manager got his UNDIES down.

Still, part of me is not sorry to be knocked out as this tournament is a bit of a disaster on the organisational front. If I were you Rhys, I'd put my efforts into sorting this one out before trying to set up an even more complicated one.

Good luck to Norwich in the next round.

Niall Seymour · Post by **Niall Seymour** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:04 am

Rhys, I haven't been able to find Martin or get the tourney owl to work.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:11 pm

I'm awaiting a reply from Kirk, also no Tourney Owl available.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:30 pm

Tourney Owl is cancelled, I'm bored of all the complaints.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:10 pm

he's thrown in the T. Owl

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:30 pm

Ryan Taylor wrote: he's thrown in the T. Owl

n1

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:09 am

Michael Wallace wrote:
Ryan Taylor wrote: he's thrown in the T. Owl
n1

iawtp

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:40 am

Well I thought it was an excellent idea.

Thomas Carey · Post by **Thomas Carey** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:51 pm

Ian Volante wrote:Well I thought it was an excellent idea.

Seconded. Please can we have it back?

Graeme Cole · Post by **Graeme Cole** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:22 pm

Thomas Carey wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:Well I thought it was an excellent idea.
Seconded. Please can we have it back?

I think the idea had plenty of potential, but there are so many edge cases to deal with that don't really have any right answers. Or at least, answers that people can't argue about for the rest of eternity.

I've already mentioned how it compares the two players' scores against the owl rather than comparing the scores against each other round by round, but Charlie said knitting the two games together as another "fake" game isn't as easy as you'd think. So you can get into a situation where the other player would have won had the two players made the same declarations head to head as they did against the owl.

There was a problem whereby if one player started playing the owl, then their opponent started playing before the first had finished, they'd get different games because both owls thought they were the first. You could solve that by not offering the owl to the second player while the first is currently playing it, but what if the first player quits with the game half finished? The second player doesn't have a chance to play until the first returns.

Also, what if one player plays the owl, then the two players meet later in the week? Do they get a chance to play head to head and forget the first player's game against the owl, or is the second player forced to play the owl too? I'd say the former would be preferable, but I don't know which behaviour was actually used. What if the first player got lucky and made 14 or 15 maxes against the owl? Now they've got an incentive to avoid their opponent all week.

The unfairness of the first player getting to pick half the rounds and the second player picking none is easily fixed, though - let the owl pick for every round. Now you've just got to argue about whether the owl should always pick randomly, optimally, pessimally, a mixture, or what...

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:48 pm

Sorry to be harsh, but Niall, you've had 2 weeks and I'm giving it to Martin Long. Martin, you're up against Graeme.

Will you play?