Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)

[Mike Brown]

Countdown recap for Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)

The first ever max game?????

C1: Champion John Widdowson (3 wins, 164 points.)
C2: Challenger Jenny Haldane.
DC: Freda Thornton and Ned Sherrin.
CV: Carol Vorderman.
OT: Other words or solutions.

I’m recapping this now, because I noticed while preparing my notes for scanning for the Big Historical Recap Project that it appears to be a max game and seems quite likely to be the first one ever – in fact, I even noted as much at the time. It features the debut appearance of none other than Jenny Haldane, well-known as being the co-founder of the Edinburgh Countdown Club, along with Nita Marr. As aficionados will know, Jenny went on to win seven of her heat games before getting knocked out by series runner-up Roger Wales and got knocked out in the quarter-finals by none other than the eventual series winner Tony Vick – so no shame there. Anyway, without further gassing, let the max game commence...

R01: P S T E O S L E Y
R02: Q W N U A C R O A
R03: N N W E O B W A T
R04: 25, 8, 2, 5, 1, 6. Target: 364.
R05: N S P R U A E T N
R06: M C L A O G N I M
R07: F R N S E U E G R
R08: 100, 4, 10, 1, 3, 7. Target: 330.
R09: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (conundrum)

Countdown wasn’t sponsored in those days...

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Round 1: P S T E O S L E Y

C1: POETESS (7)
C2: PESTLES (7)
DC: TOPLESS (7)
OT: PEYOTES (7) STEEPLY (7) SYSTOLE (7) TOELESS (7)
Score: 7–7 (max 7)

The recap writer suggested EYESPOTS for 8, but that wasn’t valid back in the days of COD7.

Round 2: Q W N U A C R O A

C1: CROWN (5)
C2: ACORN (5)
OT: ROWAN (5)
Score: 12–12 (max 12)

Again, there’s a better word here if you’re playing on apterous, but CORNUA was a big no-no back in 1988.

Round 3: N N W E O B W A T

C1: WANTON (6)
C2: BONNET (6)
OT: NEWTON (6)
Score: 18–18 (max 18)

Round 4: 25, 8, 2, 5, 1, 6. Target: 364.

C1: 364. (25+1)x(8+6) (10)
C2: 364. (25+1)x(8+6) (10)
Score: 28–28 (max 28)

At the end of Part One (truly the ‘first half’ in those days!), it wasn’t just a max game that was on the cards, it could have been a double max game with both contestants on song. I wonder if we’ll ever get one of those??

Round 5: N S P R U A E T N

C1: TAPERS (6)
C2: SAUNTER (7)
DC: PASTURE (7) PUNNETS (7) PEANUTS (7)
OT: ENTRAPS (7) NATURES (7) PARENTS (7) PASTERN (7) PUNNERS (7) PUNSTER (7) PUNTERS (7) SAUNTER (7) SPANNER (7) STUNNER (7) TANNERS (7) TREPANS (7) UNSPENT (7)
Score: 28–35 (max 35)

Jenny finally pulls ahead and that mythical double max game is off.

Round 6: M C L A O G N I M

C1: CLAMMING (8)
C2: CLAMMING (8)
Score: 36–43 (max 43)

Our players’ ability to score isn’t CLAMMING up, that’s for sure.

Round 7: F R N S E U E G R

C1: FERNS (5)
C2: REFUGES (7)
Score: 36–50 (max 50)

Jenny spots the second successive darren: neither GURNERS and REFUSER were valid at the time.

Round 8: 100, 4, 10, 1, 3, 7. Target: 330.

C1: 330. (3x100)+((4-1)x10) (10)
C2: 330. (100+10)x3 (10)
Score: 46–60 (max 60)

CECIL is kind and the max game is still possible.

Round 9: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

C2 buzzes on 4 seconds to say LUMBERING which is correct.
Score: 46–70 (max 70)

After just four seconds, Jenny’s buzzer sounds and history is made (unless we find an earlier example!). Sorry I don’t have the scramble, but this episode was recorded on audio cassette.

Further summaries are at:
http://www.apterous.org/cdb/series.php?series=16

[James Robinson]

DC: Susie Dent and Ned Sherrin.

Unless I'm not mistaken, Susie didn't mae her debut til Series 24. The Wiki gives the lexicographer as Freda Thornton.

[Mike Brown]

Unless I'm not mistaken, Susie didn't mae her debut til Series 24. The Wiki gives the lexicographer as Freda Thornton.

As usual, James, you're not mistaken. Unlike yourself, I'm not accustomed to having to change the lexicographer on recaps, I guess - although I did manage to change the host to Jeff Stelling!

[Gavin Chipper]

Good find. There's still loads of other 70ish games that haven't been recapped I think and any of those could be a max.

[Johnny Canuck]

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Should we get used to the infamous Nine Question Marks of Doom?

Good work on finding this max game, I wonder if there's any more lost in the mists of time.

[Gavin Chipper]

On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?

Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!

[James Robinson]

On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?

Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!

He did, if the scramble is unknown, he puts in the word in alphabetical order, and shrinks them to identify it as not being the actual scramble.

[Gavin Chipper]

On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?

Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!

He did, if the scramble is unknown, he puts in the word in alphabetical order, and shrinks them to identify it as not being the actual scramble.

Oh I see - they're marginally smaller but you wouldn't know unless you were looking for it! Can someone remind me what the asterisks are? Edit - ones not offered by DC?

[James Robinson]

Oh I see - they're marginally smaller but you wouldn't know unless you were looking for it! Can someone remind me what the asterisks are? Edit - ones not offered by DC?

Yes.

[Mike Brown]

Should we get used to the infamous Nine Question Marks of Doom?

I wasn't aware they were infamous (yet), but once we start recapping pre-1991 games in earnest, I'm afraid the answer is 'yes'.

[Mike Brown]

Good find. There's still loads of other 70ish games that haven't been recapped I think and any of those could be a max.

Thanks. If there is an earlier 'perfect game' than this, it's likely to be in the first eight series, as I've been recording maxes since the start of Series 9 and I'm pretty certain no other max games came up between then and this one.

[Gavin Chipper]

Good find. There's still loads of other 70ish games that haven't been recapped I think and any of those could be a max.

Thanks. If there is an earlier 'perfect game' than this, it's likely to be in the first eight series, as I've been recording maxes since the start of Series 9 and I'm pretty certain no other max games came up between then and this one.

So you've known about this and Darren Shacklady's game all this time and kept it to yourself?

[Johnny Canuck]

On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?

Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!

He did, if the scramble is unknown, he puts in the word in alphabetical order, and shrinks them to identify it as not being the actual scramble.

It's a little convention I made up (with help from Drawoh), you're welcome to use it or not but I think it leads to less confusion than just having a bunch of question marks all the time.

[Mike Brown]

So you've known about this and Darren Shacklady's game all this time and kept it to yourself?

Er, no, not unless you call having the information somewhere amongst several thousand sheets of paper 'knowing'. As I explained in the recap, I only came across it when looking through my notes in preparation for scanning them.

[Mike Brown]

It's a little convention I made up (with help from Drawoh), you're welcome to use it or not but I think it leads to less confusion than just having a bunch of question marks all the time.

Personally I'd have gone for an asterisk or something similar, but I'm pretty relaxed about it, especially as Howard is the wiki guv'nor.

[Clive Brooker]

What are we supposed to be doing with maxes which weren't the max when the game was played? I've largely followed the Roboroller's lead which amongst other things means accepting the max(es) generated from the ODE2r. Obviously it's easy enough to exclude manually anything that wasn't valid at the time, but almost impossible to find words which were OK but now aren't, so unless there's an option I don't know about to use a different list James's approach seems the most practical. However, recaps like this one have been prepared to a different standard, which could be confusing in the future.

[James Robinson]

What are we supposed to be doing with maxes which weren't the max when the game was played? I've largely followed the Roboroller's lead which amongst other things means accepting the max(es) generated from the ODE2r. Obviously it's easy enough to exclude manually anything that wasn't valid at the time, but almost impossible to find words which were OK but now aren't, so unless there's an option I don't know about to use a different list James's approach seems the most practical. However, recaps like this one have been prepared to a different standard, which could be confusing in the future.

Actually, since we've put it onto Series 40, the words are from the NODE, Clive. So, still not quite the ODE9, but it's a bit closer at least.

The thing I do is look at the words, and look at Mike's notes, and if there are any that he has included, which he gives the OK, I add them on, and vice-versa.

[Gavin Chipper]

What are we supposed to be doing with maxes which weren't the max when the game was played? I've largely followed the Roboroller's lead which amongst other things means accepting the max(es) generated from the ODE2r. Obviously it's easy enough to exclude manually anything that wasn't valid at the time, but almost impossible to find words which were OK but now aren't, so unless there's an option I don't know about to use a different list James's approach seems the most practical. However, recaps like this one have been prepared to a different standard, which could be confusing in the future.

I was thinking the same - these maxes might not actually be maxes, although they probably are. The chances of a word being valid in the old dictionary and not the current one and coming up in a specific game and also not being noticed "manually" must be somewhat less than 50/50.

[Gavin Chipper]

It's a little convention I made up (with help from Drawoh), you're welcome to use it or not but I think it leads to less confusion than just having a bunch of question marks all the time.

Personally I'd have gone for an asterisk or something similar, but I'm pretty relaxed about it, especially as Howard is the wiki guv'nor.

Those of you who use the wiki regularly might have better-formed opinions, but I'd say having the letters in the "wrong" order is more likely to cause confusion. Question marks or asterisks both seem fairly self-explanatory. I can't really see how anyone might be confused by question marks.

[Johnny Canuck]

Yeah, but "LUMBERING" isn't an anagram of "?????????".

[Clive Brooker]

Yeah, but "LUMBERING" isn't an anagram of "?????????".

Many years ago when I first saw game summaries on TCDP, I noticed these ????????? entries in some of the older games and there was no possible explanation other than that the scramble used was not known. If Mike had used a different size I'd probably have assumed it was just a mistake.

So I'd vote for ???s or similar. Or how about *UNKNOWN*?

[Gavin Chipper]

Yeah, but "LUMBERING" isn't an anagram of "?????????".

Exactly, so there can be no confusion that that was the scramble used!

[Peter Mabey]

I'd prefer to see the alphabetisation - enclosed in brackets, to indicate that it wasn't the real scramble, so I could have a go at it before scrolling down to the solution.

[Johnny Canuck]

I'd prefer to see the alphabetisation - enclosed in brackets, to indicate that it wasn't the real scramble, so I could have a go at it before scrolling down to the solution.

Agreed, sometimes I play along on the wiki too, which is one of the reasons why the scramble in the "Selection" column should be an anagram of the answer.

Yes, come to think of it, brackets or an asterisk after the alphabetised scramble are probably better than lowercase. I'll try it out.