Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
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Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Countdown recap for Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
The first ever max game?????
C1: Champion John Widdowson (3 wins, 164 points.)
C2: Challenger Jenny Haldane.
DC: Freda Thornton and Ned Sherrin.
CV: Carol Vorderman.
OT: Other words or solutions.
I’m recapping this now, because I noticed while preparing my notes for scanning for the Big Historical Recap Project that it appears to be a max game and seems quite likely to be the first one ever – in fact, I even noted as much at the time. It features the debut appearance of none other than Jenny Haldane, well-known as being the co-founder of the Edinburgh Countdown Club, along with Nita Marr. As aficionados will know, Jenny went on to win seven of her heat games before getting knocked out by series runner-up Roger Wales and got knocked out in the quarter-finals by none other than the eventual series winner Tony Vick – so no shame there. Anyway, without further gassing, let the max game commence...
R01: P S T E O S L E Y
R02: Q W N U A C R O A
R03: N N W E O B W A T
R04: 25, 8, 2, 5, 1, 6. Target: 364.
R05: N S P R U A E T N
R06: M C L A O G N I M
R07: F R N S E U E G R
R08: 100, 4, 10, 1, 3, 7. Target: 330.
R09: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (conundrum)
Countdown wasn’t sponsored in those days...
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Round 1: P S T E O S L E Y
C1: POETESS (7)
C2: PESTLES (7)
DC: TOPLESS (7)
OT: PEYOTES (7) STEEPLY (7) SYSTOLE (7) TOELESS (7)
Score: 7–7 (max 7)
The recap writer suggested EYESPOTS for 8, but that wasn’t valid back in the days of COD7.
Round 2: Q W N U A C R O A
C1: CROWN (5)
C2: ACORN (5)
OT: ROWAN (5)
Score: 12–12 (max 12)
Again, there’s a better word here if you’re playing on apterous, but CORNUA was a big no-no back in 1988.
Round 3: N N W E O B W A T
C1: WANTON (6)
C2: BONNET (6)
OT: NEWTON (6)
Score: 18–18 (max 18)
Round 4: 25, 8, 2, 5, 1, 6. Target: 364.
C1: 364. (25+1)x(8+6) (10)
C2: 364. (25+1)x(8+6) (10)
Score: 28–28 (max 28)
At the end of Part One (truly the ‘first half’ in those days!), it wasn’t just a max game that was on the cards, it could have been a double max game with both contestants on song. I wonder if we’ll ever get one of those??
Round 5: N S P R U A E T N
C1: TAPERS (6)
C2: SAUNTER (7)
DC: PASTURE (7) PUNNETS (7) PEANUTS (7)
OT: ENTRAPS (7) NATURES (7) PARENTS (7) PASTERN (7) PUNNERS (7) PUNSTER (7) PUNTERS (7) SAUNTER (7) SPANNER (7) STUNNER (7) TANNERS (7) TREPANS (7) UNSPENT (7)
Score: 28–35 (max 35)
Jenny finally pulls ahead and that mythical double max game is off.
Round 6: M C L A O G N I M
C1: CLAMMING (8)
C2: CLAMMING (8)
Score: 36–43 (max 43)
Our players’ ability to score isn’t CLAMMING up, that’s for sure.
Round 7: F R N S E U E G R
C1: FERNS (5)
C2: REFUGES (7)
Score: 36–50 (max 50)
Jenny spots the second successive darren: neither GURNERS and REFUSER were valid at the time.
Round 8: 100, 4, 10, 1, 3, 7. Target: 330.
C1: 330. (3x100)+((4-1)x10) (10)
C2: 330. (100+10)x3 (10)
Score: 46–60 (max 60)
CECIL is kind and the max game is still possible.
Round 9: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
C2 buzzes on 4 seconds to say LUMBERING which is correct.
Score: 46–70 (max 70)
After just four seconds, Jenny’s buzzer sounds and history is made (unless we find an earlier example!). Sorry I don’t have the scramble, but this episode was recorded on audio cassette.
Further summaries are at:
http://www.apterous.org/cdb/series.php?series=16
The first ever max game?????
C1: Champion John Widdowson (3 wins, 164 points.)
C2: Challenger Jenny Haldane.
DC: Freda Thornton and Ned Sherrin.
CV: Carol Vorderman.
OT: Other words or solutions.
I’m recapping this now, because I noticed while preparing my notes for scanning for the Big Historical Recap Project that it appears to be a max game and seems quite likely to be the first one ever – in fact, I even noted as much at the time. It features the debut appearance of none other than Jenny Haldane, well-known as being the co-founder of the Edinburgh Countdown Club, along with Nita Marr. As aficionados will know, Jenny went on to win seven of her heat games before getting knocked out by series runner-up Roger Wales and got knocked out in the quarter-finals by none other than the eventual series winner Tony Vick – so no shame there. Anyway, without further gassing, let the max game commence...
R01: P S T E O S L E Y
R02: Q W N U A C R O A
R03: N N W E O B W A T
R04: 25, 8, 2, 5, 1, 6. Target: 364.
R05: N S P R U A E T N
R06: M C L A O G N I M
R07: F R N S E U E G R
R08: 100, 4, 10, 1, 3, 7. Target: 330.
R09: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (conundrum)
Countdown wasn’t sponsored in those days...
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
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Round 1: P S T E O S L E Y
C1: POETESS (7)
C2: PESTLES (7)
DC: TOPLESS (7)
OT: PEYOTES (7) STEEPLY (7) SYSTOLE (7) TOELESS (7)
Score: 7–7 (max 7)
The recap writer suggested EYESPOTS for 8, but that wasn’t valid back in the days of COD7.
Round 2: Q W N U A C R O A
C1: CROWN (5)
C2: ACORN (5)
OT: ROWAN (5)
Score: 12–12 (max 12)
Again, there’s a better word here if you’re playing on apterous, but CORNUA was a big no-no back in 1988.
Round 3: N N W E O B W A T
C1: WANTON (6)
C2: BONNET (6)
OT: NEWTON (6)
Score: 18–18 (max 18)
Round 4: 25, 8, 2, 5, 1, 6. Target: 364.
C1: 364. (25+1)x(8+6) (10)
C2: 364. (25+1)x(8+6) (10)
Score: 28–28 (max 28)
At the end of Part One (truly the ‘first half’ in those days!), it wasn’t just a max game that was on the cards, it could have been a double max game with both contestants on song. I wonder if we’ll ever get one of those??
Round 5: N S P R U A E T N
C1: TAPERS (6)
C2: SAUNTER (7)
DC: PASTURE (7) PUNNETS (7) PEANUTS (7)
OT: ENTRAPS (7) NATURES (7) PARENTS (7) PASTERN (7) PUNNERS (7) PUNSTER (7) PUNTERS (7) SAUNTER (7) SPANNER (7) STUNNER (7) TANNERS (7) TREPANS (7) UNSPENT (7)
Score: 28–35 (max 35)
Jenny finally pulls ahead and that mythical double max game is off.
Round 6: M C L A O G N I M
C1: CLAMMING (8)
C2: CLAMMING (8)
Score: 36–43 (max 43)
Our players’ ability to score isn’t CLAMMING up, that’s for sure.
Round 7: F R N S E U E G R
C1: FERNS (5)
C2: REFUGES (7)
Score: 36–50 (max 50)
Jenny spots the second successive darren: neither GURNERS and REFUSER were valid at the time.
Round 8: 100, 4, 10, 1, 3, 7. Target: 330.
C1: 330. (3x100)+((4-1)x10) (10)
C2: 330. (100+10)x3 (10)
Score: 46–60 (max 60)
CECIL is kind and the max game is still possible.
Round 9: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
C2 buzzes on 4 seconds to say LUMBERING which is correct.
Score: 46–70 (max 70)
After just four seconds, Jenny’s buzzer sounds and history is made (unless we find an earlier example!). Sorry I don’t have the scramble, but this episode was recorded on audio cassette.
Further summaries are at:
http://www.apterous.org/cdb/series.php?series=16
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Unless I'm not mistaken, Susie didn't mae her debut til Series 24. The Wiki gives the lexicographer as Freda Thornton.Mike Brown wrote:DC: Susie Dent and Ned Sherrin.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
As usual, James, you're not mistaken. Unlike yourself, I'm not accustomed to having to change the lexicographer on recaps, I guess - although I did manage to change the host to Jeff Stelling!James Robinson wrote:Unless I'm not mistaken, Susie didn't mae her debut til Series 24. The Wiki gives the lexicographer as Freda Thornton.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Good find. There's still loads of other 70ish games that haven't been recapped I think and any of those could be a max.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Should we get used to the infamous Nine Question Marks of Doom?Mike Brown wrote:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Good work on finding this max game, I wonder if there's any more lost in the mists of time.
I'm not dead yet. In a rut right now because of stress from work. I'll be back later in S89. I also plan to bring back the Mastergram - if I can find a way to run a timer or clock through pure MediaWiki without having to upload to Vimeo every time.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?
Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!
Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
He did, if the scramble is unknown, he puts in the word in alphabetical order, and shrinks them to identify it as not being the actual scramble.Gavin Chipper wrote:On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?
Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Oh I see - they're marginally smaller but you wouldn't know unless you were looking for it! Can someone remind me what the asterisks are? Edit - ones not offered by DC?James Robinson wrote:He did, if the scramble is unknown, he puts in the word in alphabetical order, and shrinks them to identify it as not being the actual scramble.Gavin Chipper wrote:On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?
Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Yes.Gavin Chipper wrote:Oh I see - they're marginally smaller but you wouldn't know unless you were looking for it! Can someone remind me what the asterisks are? Edit - ones not offered by DC?
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
I wasn't aware they were infamous (yet), but once we start recapping pre-1991 games in earnest, I'm afraid the answer is 'yes'.Johnny Canuck wrote:Should we get used to the infamous Nine Question Marks of Doom?
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Thanks. If there is an earlier 'perfect game' than this, it's likely to be in the first eight series, as I've been recording maxes since the start of Series 9 and I'm pretty certain no other max games came up between then and this one.Gavin Chipper wrote:Good find. There's still loads of other 70ish games that haven't been recapped I think and any of those could be a max.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
So you've known about this and Darren Shacklady's game all this time and kept it to yourself?Mike Brown wrote:Thanks. If there is an earlier 'perfect game' than this, it's likely to be in the first eight series, as I've been recording maxes since the start of Series 9 and I'm pretty certain no other max games came up between then and this one.Gavin Chipper wrote:Good find. There's still loads of other 70ish games that haven't been recapped I think and any of those could be a max.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
It's a little convention I made up (with help from Drawoh), you're welcome to use it or not but I think it leads to less confusion than just having a bunch of question marks all the time.James Robinson wrote:He did, if the scramble is unknown, he puts in the word in alphabetical order, and shrinks them to identify it as not being the actual scramble.Gavin Chipper wrote:On the wiki the scramble is BEGILMNRU. Is that just made up?
Edit - It looks as though Johnny Canuck put in the scramble!
I'm not dead yet. In a rut right now because of stress from work. I'll be back later in S89. I also plan to bring back the Mastergram - if I can find a way to run a timer or clock through pure MediaWiki without having to upload to Vimeo every time.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Er, no, not unless you call having the information somewhere amongst several thousand sheets of paper 'knowing'. As I explained in the recap, I only came across it when looking through my notes in preparation for scanning them.Gavin Chipper wrote:So you've known about this and Darren Shacklady's game all this time and kept it to yourself?
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Personally I'd have gone for an asterisk or something similar, but I'm pretty relaxed about it, especially as Howard is the wiki guv'nor.Johnny Canuck wrote:It's a little convention I made up (with help from Drawoh), you're welcome to use it or not but I think it leads to less confusion than just having a bunch of question marks all the time.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
What are we supposed to be doing with maxes which weren't the max when the game was played? I've largely followed the Roboroller's lead which amongst other things means accepting the max(es) generated from the ODE2r. Obviously it's easy enough to exclude manually anything that wasn't valid at the time, but almost impossible to find words which were OK but now aren't, so unless there's an option I don't know about to use a different list James's approach seems the most practical. However, recaps like this one have been prepared to a different standard, which could be confusing in the future.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Actually, since we've put it onto Series 40, the words are from the NODE, Clive. So, still not quite the ODE9, but it's a bit closer at least.Clive Brooker wrote:What are we supposed to be doing with maxes which weren't the max when the game was played? I've largely followed the Roboroller's lead which amongst other things means accepting the max(es) generated from the ODE2r. Obviously it's easy enough to exclude manually anything that wasn't valid at the time, but almost impossible to find words which were OK but now aren't, so unless there's an option I don't know about to use a different list James's approach seems the most practical. However, recaps like this one have been prepared to a different standard, which could be confusing in the future.
The thing I do is look at the words, and look at Mike's notes, and if there are any that he has included, which he gives the OK, I add them on, and vice-versa.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
I was thinking the same - these maxes might not actually be maxes, although they probably are. The chances of a word being valid in the old dictionary and not the current one and coming up in a specific game and also not being noticed "manually" must be somewhat less than 50/50.Clive Brooker wrote:What are we supposed to be doing with maxes which weren't the max when the game was played? I've largely followed the Roboroller's lead which amongst other things means accepting the max(es) generated from the ODE2r. Obviously it's easy enough to exclude manually anything that wasn't valid at the time, but almost impossible to find words which were OK but now aren't, so unless there's an option I don't know about to use a different list James's approach seems the most practical. However, recaps like this one have been prepared to a different standard, which could be confusing in the future.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Those of you who use the wiki regularly might have better-formed opinions, but I'd say having the letters in the "wrong" order is more likely to cause confusion. Question marks or asterisks both seem fairly self-explanatory. I can't really see how anyone might be confused by question marks.Mike Brown wrote:Personally I'd have gone for an asterisk or something similar, but I'm pretty relaxed about it, especially as Howard is the wiki guv'nor.Johnny Canuck wrote:It's a little convention I made up (with help from Drawoh), you're welcome to use it or not but I think it leads to less confusion than just having a bunch of question marks all the time.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Yeah, but "LUMBERING" isn't an anagram of "?????????".
I'm not dead yet. In a rut right now because of stress from work. I'll be back later in S89. I also plan to bring back the Mastergram - if I can find a way to run a timer or clock through pure MediaWiki without having to upload to Vimeo every time.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Many years ago when I first saw game summaries on TCDP, I noticed these ????????? entries in some of the older games and there was no possible explanation other than that the scramble used was not known. If Mike had used a different size I'd probably have assumed it was just a mistake.Johnny Canuck wrote:Yeah, but "LUMBERING" isn't an anagram of "?????????".
So I'd vote for ???s or similar. Or how about *UNKNOWN*?
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Exactly, so there can be no confusion that that was the scramble used!Johnny Canuck wrote:Yeah, but "LUMBERING" isn't an anagram of "?????????".
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
I'd prefer to see the alphabetisation - enclosed in brackets, to indicate that it wasn't the real scramble, so I could have a go at it before scrolling down to the solution.
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Re: Friday 5 August 1988 (Series 16, Prelim 35)
Agreed, sometimes I play along on the wiki too, which is one of the reasons why the scramble in the "Selection" column should be an anagram of the answer.Peter Mabey wrote:I'd prefer to see the alphabetisation - enclosed in brackets, to indicate that it wasn't the real scramble, so I could have a go at it before scrolling down to the solution.
Yes, come to think of it, brackets or an asterisk after the alphabetised scramble are probably better than lowercase. I'll try it out.
I'm not dead yet. In a rut right now because of stress from work. I'll be back later in S89. I also plan to bring back the Mastergram - if I can find a way to run a timer or clock through pure MediaWiki without having to upload to Vimeo every time.