Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Discuss anything interesting but not remotely Countdown-related here.

Moderator: Jon O'Neill

User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Craig Beevers »

The series starts tonight at 8pm on ITV. It's an hour long, as opposed to the one-off-which-is-now-part-of-this-series which was 90 minutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_%26_Teller:_Fool_Us
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13214
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I quite liked the one-off, especially that they got fooled by Tim Vine's support act Flag Hippo.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Marc Meakin »

yeah I will be watching not least because I had tickets for one of the recordings in May but couldn't go.
Not sure why Jonathon Ross was involved though?
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Thanks, I will watch this.. I love those guys.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Mark James »

Nice one Craig. I would've missed this as ITV isn't on the listings with sky digital, it's one of the extra channels you have to tune in yourself so I always miss shows that are on it. Fortunately ITV is usually shit and I don't tend to miss anything worthwhile. Thanks again for letting us know.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Thanks Craig. My Dad loves them, so I thank you on his behalf.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ben Hunter »

Thanks for the tip off, got on it RIGHT on time.

Who presented it last time, was it Ross?
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Wait, what the hell is this? Britain's Got Magicians?
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Teller is fucking amazing. I can tell he's gonna be brilliant on this.
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ben Hunter »

Did Hi Jinx go on BGT? I definitely recognise them.
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon O'Neill »

This programme is bollocks.
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Bring back Take Me Out.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Jon O'Neill wrote:Bring back Take Me Out.
Keep this.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Matt Morrison »

ha ha that's a great account Jono, I loved reading that in hindsight.

In other news, WTF!??!:
Mark James wrote:ITV isn't on the listings with sky digital, it's one of the extra channels you have to tune in yourself
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Yeah I wish they'd just cut out all the needless shite before a trick and just ditch Jonathan Ross completely. A host isn't needed at all, just get Penn and Teller to do it. Who makes these fucking shit decisions?
Liam Tiernan
Devotee
Posts: 799
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Kildare, Rep. of Ireland

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Liam Tiernan »

Matt Morrison wrote:
In other news, WTF!??!:
Mark James wrote:ITV isn't on the listings with sky digital, it's one of the extra channels you have to tune in yourself
True , Matt. I've heard that it's because ITV have a stake in Skys' main rival over here, Chorus, but it's just a rumour. Can't find anything to back it up. Besides, a lot of ITV programmes are shown on TV 3 anyway.
User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Craig Beevers »

Ryan Taylor wrote:Yeah I wish they'd just cut out all the needless shite before a trick and just ditch Jonathan Ross completely. A host isn't needed at all, just get Penn and Teller to do it. Who makes these fucking shit decisions?
Unfortunately this sort of tedious fluff is in virtually all TV these days. The magician intros seemed very Family Fortunes. With the ad breaks as well it does really spread things rather thinly.
User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Matt Morrison »

Ah I see... it's that way in Ireland is it, can't even get ITV through Sky? That's pretty mental. It's absolutely fine here - the whole range, ITV, 2, 3, 4, and all the +1 versions. You can understand why I'd be confused!
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

The second trick on this week's was pretty impressive I thought.
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ben Hunter »

Thanks again for reminding me about this program, I love it.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Marc Meakin »

Yeah excellent show.
I'm so gutted that I didn't go to recordings.
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ben Hunter »

Ryan Taylor wrote:The second trick on this week's was pretty impressive I thought.
I don't get why P&T didn't bring up the fact that his right hand just disappeared under the table for ages in a really obvious fashion. The cards looked pretty weird, I reckon they had iron filings in them or something and he turned on some kind of wacky magnet.

The royal flush was neat, I've no idea how he managed to get hold of extra cards with the same pattern on them as P&T's cards.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Ben Hunter wrote:The royal flush was neat, I've no idea how he managed to get hold of extra cards with the same pattern on them as P&T's cards.
Yeah that was good too. You can definitely see something a bit dodgy when he deals the 5 flush cards, they don't come from the top of the pack, but still no idea where or how he gets the cards from especially, like you say, the same design as Penn & Teller's deck. They should reveal in full how all the tricks are done I reckon, like Breaking the Magician's Code.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Ryan Taylor wrote:They should reveal in full how all the tricks are done I reckon, like Breaking the Magician's Code.
I don't. I sometimes watch those shows, and hate myself a bit for it. I always found that instead of thinking "cor, that's clever" my reaction was more just "oh."

Like at the weekend, with that first guy's die, they kinda made it obvious it had no "1" on it (or couldn't land on 1 somehow in that special shaker, as that would be less obvious I suppose) but even then my daughter was asking "yeah... but how come his phone was in that particular one anyway, when it was all done at random?" and it could be because he could tell through the envelopes somehow, or it could be that he just switched it at the end, or maybe he forced it some other way. I kinda know that magicians can sometimes force a particular choice when it seems like you had a free choice, I know they can switch stuff very cleverly, and there must be a tonne of other things I don't know about. Personally, I prefer not to know, because they all seem "impossible" to me, until it's actually revealed. I'd rather just be tricked and entertained.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Jon Corby wrote:
Ryan Taylor wrote:They should reveal in full how all the tricks are done I reckon, like Breaking the Magician's Code.
I don't. I sometimes watch those shows, and hate myself a bit for it. I always found that instead of thinking "cor, that's clever" my reaction was more just "oh."

Like at the weekend, with that first guy's die, they kinda made it obvious it had no "1" on it (or couldn't land on 1 somehow in that special shaker, as that would be less obvious I suppose) but even then my daughter was asking "yeah... but how come his phone was in that particular one anyway, when it was all done at random?" and it could be because he could tell through the envelopes somehow, or it could be that he just switched it at the end, or maybe he forced it some other way. I kinda know that magicians can sometimes force a particular choice when it seems like you had a free choice, I know they can switch stuff very cleverly, and there must be a tonne of other things I don't know about. Personally, I prefer not to know, because they all seem "impossible" to me, until it's actually revealed. I'd rather just be tricked and entertained.
I now what you mean, I do like to be tricked and entertained but then there's that horrible feeling I get which I hate myself for, that desperately wants to know how to do it just so it puts me out of my frustrated misery of trying to work it out. Like with the envelopes one, even though the dice was shown not to be able to get number 1, I still didn't know how JR's phone ended up in number 1. I think maybe he has a stooge off stage who tells him which envelope the phone gets put in and then he signals which number and the magician had 6 dices all with a number that wouldn't show up. He just selects that dice and then makes the switch when JR passed him the dice. He doesn't let JR put the dice in the shaker, it was him who did it and it looked like he palmed the dice that JR had originally.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Mark James »

I don't really like magic any more. Most tricks are just variations on certain techniques. I still like the occasional close up card trick as I can appreciate the digital dexterity but other than that I only get enjoyment now from finding out exactly how tricks are done. That's why the idea for this show excited me initially as I thought you would get to find out.
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ben Hunter »

Ryan Taylor wrote:
Ben Hunter wrote:The royal flush was neat, I've no idea how he managed to get hold of extra cards with the same pattern on them as P&T's cards.
Yeah that was good too. You can definitely see something a bit dodgy when he deals the 5 flush cards, they don't come from the top of the pack, but still no idea where or how he gets the cards from especially, like you say, the same design as Penn & Teller's deck. They should reveal in full how all the tricks are done I reckon, like Breaking the Magician's Code.
Well you can see him put some cards on the bottom after Penn gives him back the deck and then the magician says something about the cards being face down. But how he got the same pattern on the back of his own cards is still a mystery to me.
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Just got around to watching this - thought it was much better than the first show. I did find it amusing during the double act (Young and Strange) that, as he pulled the screen on, in the small gap at the bottom, reflected in the shiny covering on the stage, you could clearly see the feet of the girl walking along behind it. There was only one bit of that one I couldn't quite figure out, which Penn then effectively gave away when he asked the question about "If we knew exactly how that was done, could we do it?" Anyone who's seen The Prestige will know what I'm talking about.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Phil Reynolds wrote:There was only one bit of that one I couldn't quite figure out, which Penn then effectively gave away when he asked the question about "If we knew exactly how that was done, could we do it?" Anyone who's seen The Prestige will know what I'm talking about.
In that bit, was he just meaning that they were too large to be able to that trick?
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Ryan Taylor wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:There was only one bit of that one I couldn't quite figure out, which Penn then effectively gave away when he asked the question about "If we knew exactly how that was done, could we do it?" Anyone who's seen The Prestige will know what I'm talking about.
In that bit, was he just meaning that they were too large to be able to that trick?
No. (His subsequent comment about being able to keep that part of the secret quiet for the rest of their lives was significant.)
Last edited by Phil Reynolds on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Ryan Taylor wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:There was only one bit of that one I couldn't quite figure out, which Penn then effectively gave away when he asked the question about "If we knew exactly how that was done, could we do it?" Anyone who's seen The Prestige will know what I'm talking about.
In that bit, was he just meaning that they were too large to be able to that trick?
No.
In which case I don't get it at all. Does this mean I have to watch The Prestige?
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Ryan Taylor wrote:In which case I don't get it at all. Does this mean I have to watch The Prestige?
See my edited post above. Or, if you want it spelled out:

[spoiler]
I'm 95% certain that Sam Strange is an identical twin.
[/spoiler]

It's possible to do the trick without this being the case (indeed I've participated in a performance of it), but it requires some additional choreography with the screen and places an added demand on timing.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Ryan Taylor wrote:In which case I don't get it at all. Does this mean I have to watch The Prestige?
[spoiler]
I'm 95% certain that Sam Strange is an identical twin.
[/spoiler]
Ah right cheers, I wouldn't have ever got that.
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ben Hunter »

Phil Reynolds wrote:Anyone who's seen The Prestige will know what I'm talking about.
Tesla coils?
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Ben Hunter wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:Anyone who's seen The Prestige will know what I'm talking about.
Tesla coils?
Haha, I'd forgotten Bowie and that bizarre subplot.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

That "trick" with the CD players last week was literally the worst attempt at a magic act I have ever seen. He didn't even try to assure us that the CD players were genuine or that the CDs were different or had anything on them. Awful.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Jon Corby wrote:That "trick" with the CD players last week was literally the worst attempt at a magic act I have ever seen. He didn't even try to assure us that the CD players were genuine or that the CDs were different or had anything on them. Awful.
Yep. And shock...he came from Hull. What a fucking disgrace. I quite liked the dragon guy though, even if his act was a bit irritating at times I sitll thought it was all sort of cheesy/different/entertaining/funny all rolled into one. Teller's was quite nice too.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Ryan Taylor wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:That "trick" with the CD players last week was literally the worst attempt at a magic act I have ever seen. He didn't even try to assure us that the CD players were genuine or that the CDs were different or had anything on them. Awful.
Yep. And shock...he came from Hull. What a fucking disgrace. I quite liked the dragon guy though, even if his act was a bit irritating at times I sitll thought it was all sort of cheesy/different/entertaining/funny all rolled into one. Teller's was quite nice too.
Yeah, likewise. Although I also didn't think he'd have a chance of "fooling them", as there's nothing much else to say than "that's a trick card" - I mean, it turns into a different card a quarter at a time! Same with the newspaper dude. His act was great but I've seen the "restoring a torn paper trick" done before, so P&T will certainly know how it's done, even if he did add cool little bits like the paper coming back up off the floor.

I did think the trick that did fool them, while impressive in what it achieved, was totally devoid of any stagecraft/showmanship/anything which the previously mentioned acts had. I was also surprised when Penn said the knife through the card was genuine. It looked to me like an opportunity for some sleight of hand - otherwise why not simply hand the envelope to someone else beforehand and have them take the card out? If the magician is responsible for opening and revealing anything, I always assume that he needs to do it and is fucking with it somehow. Perhaps I'm wrong in thinking that tricks are always stripped back so that anything "genuine" is clearly shown as such, maybe magicians deliberately muddy the waters a bit? In that, it makes it more difficult to work out how he's done it if you're not even actually sure exactly what he's done. Although it does therefore make the actual trick slightly less impressive, for me at least.

(I have no idea how any of those tricks were done btw, and I don't want to know Phil Reynolds! :mrgreen: )
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Jon Corby wrote:I don't want to know Phil Reynolds
In the biblical sense or just generally?
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:I don't want to know Phil Reynolds
In the biblical sense or just generally?
Haha! Should there have been some kind of punctuation mark in there?
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Jon Corby wrote:Should there have been some kind of punctuation mark in there?
I suppose a comma might have eliminated the ambiguity, but where's the fun in that? ;)
Jojo Apollo
Devotee
Posts: 825
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:29 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jojo Apollo »

This is a good Saturday TV show, which makes a change from the usual tosh.
User avatar
Ben Hunter
Kiloposter
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: S Yorks

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ben Hunter »

Jon Corby wrote:I did think the trick that did fool them...
IIRC the trick didn't fool them. The card was forced on both the woman and Jonathan, which is why the knife was most likely genuine. My housemates and I noticed the force on the woman the first time through (he shuffles through a few more cards before giving her one). The think-of-a-number bit is also a force in that there are several methods of reaching the forced card, the method being different for whatever number Jonathan picks.
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Ben Hunter wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:I did think the trick that did fool them...
IIRC the trick didn't fool them.
You do indeed remember correctly (Ben, not Jon). This was the first week when nobody managed to fool P&T, although I genuinely think Piff the Magic Dragon deserves a shot at Vegas - great act, made somehow more enjoyable for being performed in that terrible costume.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Only got halfway through Saturday's show, but that trick with the guys and the meals and the tables (which fooled P&T). How the hell?

My solution is that the predictions didn't come from the envelopes at all, but the guys were prepped with instructions to tear off a piece of paper being fed off a tiny remote printer just under the table and pretend it came from the envelope.

Nothing else makes sense.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13214
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:Only got halfway through Saturday's show, but that trick with the guys and the meals and the tables (which fooled P&T). How the hell?

My solution is that the predictions didn't come from the envelopes at all, but the guys were prepped with instructions to tear off a piece of paper being fed off a tiny remote printer just under the table and pretend it came from the envelope.

Nothing else makes sense.
The other week someone had something as blatant as trick CD players and Penn and Teller guessed that right, and in this case there was the possibility that the person he picked out of the audience wasn't at random at all but they just assumed that she was (even though the rubbishness level of each possibility is about the same). The way he picked her wasn't very good. Surely if you could pick someone randomly, you would.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:Only got halfway through Saturday's show, but that trick with the guys and the meals and the tables (which fooled P&T). How the hell?

My solution is that the predictions didn't come from the envelopes at all, but the guys were prepped with instructions to tear off a piece of paper being fed off a tiny remote printer just under the table and pretend it came from the envelope.

Nothing else makes sense.
The other week someone had something as blatant as trick CD players and Penn and Teller guessed that right, and in this case there was the possibility that the person he picked out of the audience wasn't at random at all but they just assumed that she was (even though the rubbishness level of each possibility is about the same). The way he picked her wasn't very good. Surely if you could pick someone randomly, you would.
Hmm. You could then extend that to say that the three guys were also actors, and there was fuck all on the bits of paper, and they just read out their rehearsed lines. Actually, the guys reactions were kinda weird - none of them looked at all amazed or laughed or even smiled at seeing their names on bits of paper. I think there was some definite level of coercion going on, such as the paper informing them to read their own names in the sentence or something. You probably would, wouldn't you? You're part of the trick, you've got one up on everyone else. Kinda like hypnotism but without all the preamble.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

My solution to that trick was that they were all stooges. Nothing was random about it and I don't know why Penn stated that they believed the selection process was random.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Mark James »

Why isn't anyone talking about the dudes with the box? I thought that was amazing.
User avatar
Joseph Krol
Kiloposter
Posts: 1063
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:47 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Joseph Krol »

Mark James wrote:Why isn't anyone talking about the dudes with the box? I thought that was amazing.
True. The woman was just there to make it more interesting in my view, it was only a tiny woman harnessed inside a box. The tie stuff was cool as was most of the rest of the trick.
Image
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Mark James wrote:Why isn't anyone talking about the dudes with the box? I thought that was amazing.
Oh yeah I really liked that too. But it went on far too long. I sort of got bored of it after a while and was just hoping they'd wrap it up soon.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Ryan Taylor wrote:My solution to that trick was that they were all stooges. Nothing was random about it and I don't know why Penn stated that they believed the selection process was random.
The more I think about it, the more I think they're just coerced into reading something from the paper that wasn't really there (e.g. - "If you're sat at table 1, say .... [inserting your own name here]..."). None of the guys looked remotely impressed, if anything they looked a little uncomfortable. I think if they were acting they would have done a better job at being surprised themselves. There was also a cut where they got name-badged and mic'd up (which is quite unusual for this show) where he could have easily said something along the lines of "all right lads, you've got a big part to play in this, follow your instructions fully and I reckon we could fool them" or somesuch bollocks. I do think you're more likely to play along than to ruin everything.

Did anyone else see the notes? I'm surprised Penn & Teller didn't ask to see them. Actually, did anyone even check that that was a chicken tikka masala on table one? It could have easily been a korma or a mahkani or anything. IT'S A FIX.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Jon Corby wrote:The more I think about it, the more I think they're just coerced into reading something from the paper that wasn't really there (e.g. - "If you're sat at table 1, say .... [inserting your own name here]..."). None of the guys looked remotely impressed, if anything they looked a little uncomfortable.
Just watched this again, and it's exactly as I thought - there is no way the guys are just reading from the paper. They look really awkward as if they're wrestling with whether they should play along or not. Magician dude before the first guy (who presumably is the clincher - if he plays along the others probably will) actually bends down and says "please" right in his face before asking him to read "his" message from the paper (not the contents on the paper, not "read exactly what it says" or anything). Not the usual smug, confident "eat that, motherfuckers" reveal. No showing the paper to anyone.
User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Craig Beevers »

I'd have thought the acts would have to go through an audition and they'd weed out anything as lame as that. Unless they spent all the budget on Jonathan Ross.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Craig Beevers wrote:I'd have thought the acts would have to go through an audition and they'd weed out anything as lame as that. Unless they spent all the budget on Jonathan Ross.
Yeah they definitely go through an audition process for the show and I would also hope that this trick was not achieved by such a crappy way.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Mark James »

Jon Corby wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:The more I think about it, the more I think they're just coerced into reading something from the paper that wasn't really there (e.g. - "If you're sat at table 1, say .... [inserting your own name here]..."). None of the guys looked remotely impressed, if anything they looked a little uncomfortable.
Just watched this again, and it's exactly as I thought - there is no way the guys are just reading from the paper. They look really awkward as if they're wrestling with whether they should play along or not. Magician dude before the first guy (who presumably is the clincher - if he plays along the others probably will) actually bends down and says "please" right in his face before asking him to read "his" message from the paper (not the contents on the paper, not "read exactly what it says" or anything). Not the usual smug, confident "eat that, motherfuckers" reveal. No showing the paper to anyone.
There's too much of a chance that the three dudes wouldn't participate. You couldn't risk it. It's more likely the girl doing the picking is in on it. If she's not the magician should've let Penn and Teller pick a random person from the audience.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Jon Corby »

Mark James wrote:There's too much of a chance that the three dudes wouldn't participate. You couldn't risk it. It's more likely the girl doing the picking is in on it. If she's not the magician should've let Penn and Teller pick a random person from the audience.
Please watch it again with this in mind. The guys are clearly not just reading the contents of a note. They are implored to read "your message" (he bends right down and virtually begs the first guy to go along with it). Once the first guy plays along, the others are much more likely to follow. Plus we've already had a cut where they get microphones and name badges on. The magician can easily say at this point "okay guys, you need to follow some simple instructions of mine to make this trick work and I reckon we can fool everyone together, you okay with that?" or something, which doesn't explicitly give anything away, but if anyone's looking unwilling they can be sent back to their seat as "not wanting to join in anymore" without it blowing the trick.

Actually, I disregarded the bit in the VT about the "trick not going well" when he tried it out (as the usual X-Factor style build-up "omg if this goes wrong it's gonna be a disaster!" shite) but that actually would make sense as well. The smaller the venue, the smaller the audience, the lower-key the occasion etc, the less likely people are to play along. (It's my belief that stage hypnosis works in exactly the same way.)

Anyway, compare it to a normal "check the contents of the envelope" which is delivered more as a kind of "ha, suck it, it's just there in the envelope, I'm great" . You don't have to practically beg them to read it. You couldn't give a shit if they do it or not really, it's there even if they don't want to confirm it, someone else can, or you can show it to camera, whatever.

I've convinced myself that's (pretty much) what has gone on.

Nothing else makes sense.

:)

That said, the bit I do therefore find odd is that it fooled P&T. Penn's big speech now looks almost put together to convince the audience further what an amazing trick it was, while throwing you off the scent, which all made it look like they've got a quota to fill and were trying to justify it. But if that were the case, they'd have taken Michael with his "genuine" card trick (which was absolutely fucking amazing, and quite frankly from what I could understand from Penn's "explanation" should count as a fool - it sounded like he was basically saying "I know the moves and knew what you were gonna do, but couldn't see how/when you did it". I mean, it's kinda obvious WHAT he's had to do, but if you don't see him do it, well then that's the trick isn't it?)

And the last guys that went through were fucking shit, and possibly exposed a bit of a flaw in the rules of the programme, namely that if Penn & Teller only get ONE guess, you do a fucking shit trick with loads of equally plausible (and shit) ways of achieving it, and hope they don't say the right one. FWIW I think while he didn't "switch decks" altogether, he did dump a load of cards on the top (and possibly bottom) as he denied the switch and was careful to say "all the cards JR shuffled were there in the order he did so", which doesn't preclude adding some. But even if he didn't do that, I can think of many ways of achieving the same effect. Rubbish.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Jon Corby wrote:Once the first guy plays along, the others are much more likely to follow. Plus we've already had a cut where they get microphones and name badges on. The magician can easily say at this point "okay guys, you need to follow some simple instructions of mine to make this trick work and I reckon we can fool everyone together, you okay with that?" or something, which doesn't explicitly give anything away, but if anyone's looking unwilling they can be sent back to their seat as "not wanting to join in anymore" without it blowing the trick.
I don't think the cut in filming is particularly important. I do think your reason is the most plausible.
Jinxy Jon wrote:(It's my belief that stage hypnosis works in exactly the same way.)
Yep. My friend who had been "hypnotised" had said it was a weird feeling because you felt you just had to play along with the other people on stage.
Jon the Jester wrote:But if that were the case, they'd have taken Michael with his "genuine" card trick (which was absolutely fucking amazing, and quite frankly from what I could understand from Penn's "explanation" should count as a fool - it sounded like he was basically saying "I know the moves and knew what you were gonna do, but couldn't see how/when you did it". I mean, it's kinda obvious WHAT he's had to do, but if you don't see him do it, well then that's the trick isn't it?)
Get what you say but I still think Penn and Teller have effectively not been fooled. Everyone knows how the vanishing handkerchief trick is done but just 'cos you don't see the bit where it goes, doesn't mean you've been fooled.
Magician Jon wrote:And the last guys that went through were fucking shit, and possibly exposed a bit of a flaw in the rules of the programme, namely that if Penn & Teller only get ONE guess, you do a fucking shit trick with loads of equally plausible (and shit) ways of achieving it, and hope they don't say the right one. FWIW I think while he didn't "switch decks" altogether, he did dump a load of cards on the top (and possibly bottom) as he denied the switch and was careful to say "all the cards JR shuffled were there in the order he did so", which doesn't preclude adding some. But even if he didn't do that, I can think of many ways of achieving the same effect. Rubbish.
Yeah these guys were not only shit but they were fucking annoying too with their horrible facial hair growth. Definitely a bit of a flaw.
User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Matt Morrison »

Ryan Taylor wrote:
Magician Jon wrote:And the last guys that went through were fucking shit
Yeah these guys were not only shit but they were fucking annoying too with their horrible facial hair growth.
Someone's jealous of puberty.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13214
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Penn & Teller: Fool Us

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:I've convinced myself that's (pretty much) what has gone on.
And you've ruined the magic for everyone else. I'm distraught.
Post Reply