Haye vs Klitschko

Jojo Apollo · Post by **Jojo Apollo** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:54 am

Check out this youtube video of their HBO face off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lDZhnxAwS0

Quite a chilling stare from Klitschko after Haye gets under his skin, all good stuff before the big heavyweight showdown on July 2nd. Who will win???

I think Haye will win.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:01 am

I think he'll win too, but I'm rooting for klitsch since I saw him on BBC breakfast and he was a really nice guy. Hayes a brilliant boxer though, his achievements are probably still underrated even now as a world heavyweight champion.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:20 am

I absolutely hate boxing as some of you will know, but I do have just the slightest of interest in this fight purely based on the coverage I've accidentally been subject to by way of watching Soccer AM and leaving Sky Sports News on in the background for no good reason. However, I definitely won't watch it as it will go against everything I stand for and I'd have to kill myself. Plus, most importantly, it will undoubtedly be an utter letdown compared to Cruz vs. Faber on the same night.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:23 am

Yeah I saw him on BBC Breakfast too quite a few weeks back and he was as charming as ever especially with Sian Williams (I think who was on that day). Watched a couple of other things with him on and I think he's a real decent chap but still I will be wanting Haye to win it. Haye was on new series of Alan Carr's Chatty Man last night too and he was a good laugh. Can't wait for it though.

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:05 pm

Hwavy weight boxing Died for me, the day Mike Tyson bit Evander Holyfields ear.
But as a patriotic Englishman I do hope Haye beats him and goes on to fight his bro (thou that's unlikely seeing as Haye is adamant he is retiring in October).

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:38 pm

Doesn't anyone else really want to see Haye levelled?

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:47 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFHq4VNJVI8 What a langball.

Liam Tiernan · Post by **Liam Tiernan** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:42 pm

Andy Wilson wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFHq4VNJVI8 What a langball.

I think you've gone native, Andy.

Phil Reynolds · Post by **Phil Reynolds** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:55 pm

Andy Wilson wrote:Doesn't anyone else really want to see Haye levelled?

I'd certainly like to see him go down.

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:32 pm

lol Phil. 9 years is a long time Liam!

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:24 pm

Andy Wilson wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFHq4VNJVI8 What a langball.

Come on, isn't that golden?! This is what boxing is supposed to be like.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:24 pm

A-LOL. Most of this is hilarious, Haye is a dog. If he wins it'll be a mega upset.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:28 am

Shit by the sounds of it? I obviously didn't watch, but any comments?

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:36 am

Matt Morrison wrote:Shit by the sounds of it? I obviously didn't watch, but any comments?

OK so I watched it but don't remember lots of the fight. My account was that not many punches were landed by Haye although I do remember seeing him quite a big one in round 3 or something. Badically none of them full on went for it, Klitschko kept leaning in and sending Haye to the floor although Haye kept going down easily. It was all very frustrating and resulted in me smashing my phone into 3 pieces at some point. Apparently in the post-match interview Haye had a broken little toe or something which meant he couldn't go in for the punches or something. Sounded like a pathetic excuse to me and one that I would expect Andy Murray to come up with rather than David Fucking Haye. So yes, shit fight, Klitschko won it easily, it was embarrassing, I lost my bet and I lost my phone. A shit night.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:40 am

Ryan Taylor wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:Shit by the sounds of it? I obviously didn't watch, but any comments?
OK so I watched it but don't remember lots of the fight. My account was that not many punches were landed by Haye although I do remember seeing him quite a big one in round 3 or something. Badically none of them full on went for it, Klitschko kept leaning in and sending Haye to the floor although Haye kept going down easily. It was all very frustrating and resulted in me smashing my phone into 3 pieces at some point. Apparently in the post-match interview Haye had a broken little toe or something which meant he couldn't go in for the punches or something. Sounded like a pathetic excuse to me and one that I would expect Andy Murray to come up with rather than David Fucking Haye. So yes, shit fight, Klitschko won it easily, it was embarrassing, I lost my bet and I lost my phone. A shit night.

That'll be boxing. On the other hand, Kevin Ashman eh?

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:42 am

Matt Morrison wrote: That'll be boxing. On the other hand, Kevin Ashman eh?

Best thing that's ever happened to me.

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:25 pm

Missed the fight as I was working, but delighted at the result. Sorry to hear it wasn't the classic that was anticipated. Double whammy of disappointment for UK sports fans I suppose with Murray becoming Scottish again on Friday as well. Still, if Haye was Irish i'd have been happy to see him beaten too. He's an awful tit in fairness. Anyway, what's all this Kevin Ashman business?

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:51 am

Watched a bit of it last night. What about those entrances? The film scene things at the start were really very cool. Was also curious about his walk through the crowd bit. It did seem odd that the crowd could jump out in front of Klitschko but having seen a bit of Haye's, Klitschko's was more like a red carpet stroll. Haye's blaming his opponent for this, saying that they were directed that way by 'his people'. What was he doing not coming out on time though?

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:00 pm

Andy Wilson wrote:Watched a bit of it last night. What about those entrances? The film scene things at the start were really very cool. Was also curious about his walk through the crowd bit. It did seem odd that the crowd could jump out in front of Klitschko but having seen a bit of Haye's, Klitschko's was more like a red carpet stroll. Haye's blaming his opponent for this, saying that they were directed that way by 'his people'. What was he doing not coming out on time though?

Yeah the entrances really were good, the whole TV screens on the floor and then on the newspaper was pretty sweet. And Lennox Lewis getting out of the limo and escorting him too was cool. Haye was getting mobbed whilst Klitschko just strolled through, I thought they would at least have had the path to the ring fenced off? Dunno why he didn't come out until about 25 minutes after he was meant to presumably just mind games because he says he doesn't like to be waiting in the ring for his opponent so wanted to come out second. Or maybe he was just thinking of pulling out with his poorly poorly toe, boo hoo. Haye has been on BBC Breakfast and Sky Sports News programme all this morning and he's just talking a load of crap. He is trying to retract the whole toe thing now because he has clearly been told just how pathetic it all is. And he has been forever praising Klitschko for being the better man (on the night). He keeps saying he would love a second fight too but in all fairness, he doesn't deserve it at all, this was his chance and he didn't deliver on the big stage. He has nothing to offer in the fight for Klitschko now that he holds all the belts. Another thing that is frustrating with Haye is this repetition that he is going to retire on 13th October no matter what, but then he was asked the question "if Klitschko's team wanted a rematch and said they couldn't sort it out until January then would you still retire?" and Haye became unstuck and starts contradicting everything he has been saying for the past few months. He has no charisma whatsoever.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:37 pm

Knockout of the night at UFC 132 on Saturday night: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RhCjslAn5IM/T ... nditko.gif
(linked rather than embedded as it's an animated GIF and I'm only trying to rinse your bandwidth in one thread at a time)

Ian Dent · Post by **Ian Dent** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:47 pm

UFC is absolutely shockingingly bad.

Boxing is much more interesting.

(imo)

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:01 pm

I liked the part where the guy smashed him flush in the face six times when he was already knocked out and defenceless.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:12 pm

I like your vagina.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:22 pm

Consider this knockout.

Look at the right arm poised to continue the assault (11 seconds).

Art.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:25 pm

Art: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMMcXyJIl8 (the music isn't though)

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:26 pm

I'm not arguing about how great Ali might have been by the way, but that's a "knockdown" not a knockout.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:37 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:Art: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMMcXyJIl8 (the music isn't though)

That's quite funny.

Matt Morrison wrote:I'm not arguing about how great Ali might have been by the way, but that's a "knockdown" not a knockout.

Ok.

Mark James · Post by **Mark James** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:16 pm

I don't like boxing or UFC. I'd much rather watch the Street Fighter championships. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS5peqAp ... re=related What a comeback!

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:29 pm

Mark James wrote:I don't like boxing or UFC. I'd much rather watch the Street Fighter championships. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS5peqAp ... re=related What a comeback!

So good!

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:05 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote:Consider this knockout.

Look at the right arm poised to continue the assault (11 seconds).

Art.

As someone who likes boxing and couldn't care less about UFC, I don't think that's a very fair comparison. You might as well compare a £200 loaf of bread to a Sainsbury's Caterpillar cake and conclude that bread is tastier.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:06 pm

I really have tried both. I tried boxing before MMA.

The top result for "boxing vs mma" at the moment is this (brief) personal account which just scratches the surface but at least shows you the opinion of a boxing AND mma fan whereas here it's all boxing-only fans apart from me being mma-only: http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/07/03/u ... ut-boxing/

I don't really know what you meant by your metaphor Charlie but the fact Jono has to pull out a clip of Ali says a lot to me. I mean, have there really been any historically awesome boxing fights over the last 5-10 years? That's a genuine question, I don't actually know, but I do know there is at least one incredible back-and-forth edge-of-seat MMA fight (even just in the UFC without considering other promotions) every month or so that properly has me sitting there sweaty-palmed like an excited teenager discovering porn.

Also maybe it's just not a great angle of that Ali clip but to me I find something like Anderson Silva knocking out Forrest Griffin with a jab whilst moving backwards more incredible. The art of boxing is a big part of MMA, but then there's so much more added in too.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:14 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:I really have tried both. I tried boxing before MMA.

The top result for "boxing vs mma" at the moment is this (brief) personal account which just scratches the surface but at least shows you the opinion of a boxing AND mma fan whereas here it's all boxing-only fans apart from me being mma-only: http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/07/03/u ... ut-boxing/

I don't really know what you meant by your metaphor Charlie but the fact Jono has to pull out a clip of Ali says a lot to me. I mean, have there really been any historically awesome boxing fights over the last 5-10 years? That's a genuine question, I don't actually know, but I do know there is at least one incredible back-and-forth edge-of-seat MMA fight (even just in the UFC without considering other promotions) every month or so that properly has me sitting there sweaty-palmed like an excited teenager discovering porn.

I don't have a problem with UFC, I just don't know anything about it and have never watched it. Just saying the sensible comparison is an average boxing match versus an average UFC match, or even the best of one versus the best of another, or something.

Liam Tiernan · Post by **Liam Tiernan** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:15 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:I'm not arguing about how great Ali might have been by the way, but that's a "knockdown" not a knockout.

Wrong. Foreman did get up, but not before he was counted out. That makes it a K.O.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:22 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:I don't have a problem with UFC, I just don't know anything about it and have never watched it. Just saying the sensible comparison is an average boxing match versus an average UFC match, or even the best of one versus the best of another, or something.

Yeah agreed. (Though I have to point out it's MMA not UFC! - sorry, would be lying to myself if I didn't mention that, UFC is just a promotion like the WBA).

They're not as comparable as people make out, the boxing vs MMA thing has been raging away for years but it's a bit like comparing a penalty shootout to a game of football. If all you do is practice penalties all day you're going to be shit hot at them but it doesn't make you a great footballer.

I just feel the need to defend, nay, even promote, MMA, because I used to hate it before I saw the light. Or more to the point, before I gave it a chance. And that is something that boxing fans don't tend to do. There is absolutely no way in hell anyone who really loves boxing would not love MMA after watching a few decent shows, I really believe that, whereas the other way round the love doesn't work.

Most fighting fans I know started with boxing, "progressed" to MMA and most seem to say that boxing is now a dying art, ruined by corrupt promotions, padded records, overhyped matchups and greedy fighters. Maybe MMA will go the same way as it becomes more and more popular but for now, in organisation and in content, it seems much purer.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:24 pm

Liam Tiernan wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:I'm not arguing about how great Ali might have been by the way, but that's a "knockdown" not a knockout.
Wrong. Foreman did get up, but not before he was counted out. That makes it a K.O.

Haha. If Heather wasn't asleep, I would be A-loling right now. The fact you started that message with a "Wrong." as if you were proving some point to me just says everything about the attitude I see in boxing fans. It's not a fucking knockout.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:27 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:I don't have a problem with UFC, I just don't know anything about it and have never watched it. Just saying the sensible comparison is an average boxing match versus an average UFC match, or even the best of one versus the best of another, or something.
Yeah agreed. (Though I have to point out it's MMA not UFC! - sorry, would be lying to myself if I didn't mention that, UFC is just a promotion like the WBA).

They're not as comparable as people make out, the boxing vs MMA thing has been raging away for years but it's a bit like comparing a penalty shootout to a game of football. If all you do is practice penalties all day you're going to be shit hot at them but it doesn't make you a great footballer.

I just feel the need to defend, nay, even promote, MMA, because I used to hate it before I saw the light. Or more to the point, before I gave it a chance. And that is something that boxing fans don't tend to do. There is absolutely no way in hell anyone who really loves boxing would not love MMA after watching a few decent shows, I really believe that, whereas the other way round the love doesn't work.

Most fighting fans I know started with boxing, "progressed" to MMA and most seem to say that boxing is now a dying art, ruined by corrupt promotions, padded records, overhyped matchups and greedy fighters. Maybe MMA will go the same way as it becomes more and more popular but for now, in organisation and in content, it seems much purer.

You seem very passionate about this, I'd happily give it a try.*

* Last time I said these words I shortly discovered I have no gag reflex.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:34 pm

I'd happily suck you off whilst we watch a UFC card together. Well, you'd be watching, I'd be facing the wrong way. It'd be like a modern metrosexual version of a couple of rednecks in a trailer park going at it doggy style so they can watch the wrasslin' together.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:40 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:I'd happily suck you off whilst we watch a UFC card together. Well, you'd be watching, I'd be facing the wrong way. It'd be like a modern metrosexual version of a couple of rednecks in a trailer park going at it doggy style so they can watch the wrasslin' together.

Surely one only does it doggystyle so they can... watch X-Files?

By the way I'm leaving for the States on Thursday so you'll have to direct me to somewhere I can see it without paying $1M for PPV.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:49 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:By the way I'm leaving for the States on Thursday

I know. Sad face. I only see you like once every 6 months but I still always imagine we'll get together next week and I hate it when you're out of the country. Particularly as I was planning to organise Co26InchPizzaAndBowling really soon. Come back soon.

Liam Tiernan · Post by **Liam Tiernan** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:52 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Liam Tiernan wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:I'm not arguing about how great Ali might have been by the way, but that's a "knockdown" not a knockout.
Wrong. Foreman did get up, but not before he was counted out. That makes it a K.O.
Haha. If Heather wasn't asleep, I would be A-loling right now. The fact you started that message with a "Wrong." as if you were proving some point to me just says everything about the attitude I see in boxing fans. It's not a fucking knockout.

If he gets up before being counted out, it's a knockdown. If he's counted out then technically it's a knockout (not a technical knockout, which is a different container of ichthyoids altogether).
Silva vs. Griffin looked impressive at first glance, but then: a) Griffin had taken two knockdowns in the previous two minutes, b) he's seemingly got a notorious glass jaw and c) this is the perfect example of how to lead with your chin. It's practically a diving header.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:07 pm

Liam Tiernan wrote:If he gets up before being counted out, it's a knockdown. If he's counted out then technically it's a knockout.

Liam Tiernan wrote:technically

Thank you. Not a knockout. I was clearly talking in actual fact, not subjective terminology.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:15 pm

Liam Tiernan wrote:Silva vs. Griffin looked impressive at first glance, but then: a) Griffin had taken two knockdowns in the previous two minutes, b) he's seemingly got a notorious glass jaw and c) this is the perfect example of how to lead with your chin. It's practically a diving header.

Griffin had a solid record of 16-5 at the time, and that was despite having faced big names all throughout his UFC career and not having many weak fights padding his record (as a response to being pretty much the first UFC poster boy having won the first Ultimate Fighter reality series and been heavily promoted since). He is/was a former champion, and it's also worth pointing out that Anderson Silva went up a weight class to take this fight (from 185lb to 205lb, a much bigger separation and challenge than the large majority of boxing weight classes). Griffin might not be known for having a granite chin but he's a known warrior (watch Griffin-Bonnar, the aforementioned finale of the first series of the Ultimate Fighter for just one example) and we're certainly not talking a glass chin.

So whilst I disagree with b) I actually agree with a) and c) but the fact Griffin is no joke yet was made to look like a fucking amateur by Anderson Silva's performance makes it all the more impressive, not less so.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:46 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:
Liam Tiernan wrote:If he gets up before being counted out, it's a knockdown. If he's counted out then technically it's a knockout.
Liam Tiernan wrote:technically
Liam Tiernan wrote:technically
Liam Tiernan wrote:technically
Thank you. Not a knockout. I was clearly talking in actual fact, not subjective terminology.

In actual fact, if you get knocked down and stay down for a ten count, that is a knock out. What you're saying is like saying a goal in football is not a goal because the real "goal" is to win the match. Or a home run in baseball isn't a home run because the batter didn't run to his home. The word is defined differently in boxing.

Liam Tiernan · Post by **Liam Tiernan** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:04 pm

Matt Morrison wrote: Also maybe it's just not a great angle of that Ali clip but to me I find something like Anderson Silva knocking out Forrest Griffin with a jab whilst moving backwards more incredible. The art of boxing is a big part of MMA, but then there's so much more added in too.

If by "knockout" you mean "hitting the other person so hard they lose consciousness", which is what you seem to be driving at, then technically this isn't a knockout either. Subjective terminology, go figure.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:05 pm

Liam Tiernan wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: Also maybe it's just not a great angle of that Ali clip but to me I find something like Anderson Silva knocking out Forrest Griffin with a jab whilst moving backwards more incredible. The art of boxing is a big part of MMA, but then there's so much more added in too.

If by "knockout" you mean "hitting the other person so hard they lose consciousness", which is what you seem to be driving at, then technically this isn't a knockout either. Subjective terminology, go figure.

Hey, the guy stayed in the ring, so technically he wasn't knocked out!

Liam Tiernan · Post by **Liam Tiernan** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:18 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Liam Tiernan wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: Also maybe it's just not a great angle of that Ali clip but to me I find something like Anderson Silva knocking out Forrest Griffin with a jab whilst moving backwards more incredible. The art of boxing is a big part of MMA, but then there's so much more added in too.

If by "knockout" you mean "hitting the other person so hard they lose consciousness", which is what you seem to be driving at, then technically this isn't a knockout either. Subjective terminology, go figure.
Hey, the guy stayed in the ring, so technically he wasn't knocked out!

Aaaah, I see. Misunderstood completely. Sorry, Matt. Different sport, different language, I suppose.

Hey, wait a minute, these MMA guys, they fight inside a cage , right?. So it's impossible for them to get knocked out at all. So why are they talking about knockouts?

Okay, now I'm confused.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:28 pm

Yawn.

Mark James · Post by **Mark James** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:16 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hExLsJlaI

Jojo Apollo · Post by **Jojo Apollo** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:02 pm

It's a shame the fight didn't live up to the hype.

Here's Klitschko with the last laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYnL5dZ2 ... ideo_title

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:32 am

Jojo Apollo wrote:It's a shame the fight didn't live up to the hype.

Here's Klitschko with the last laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYnL5dZ2 ... ideo_title

Haha, that's nice.

MWM wrote: I mean, have there really been any historically awesome boxing fights over the last 5-10 years?

Fair point. When was the last one? How good are these guys compared to say, Tyson, who was probably the last great boxer right?

Bob De Caux · Post by **Bob De Caux** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:14 am

I mean, have there really been any historically awesome boxing fights over the last 5-10 years?

If you mean heavyweight boxing, then I agree with you - there haven't been any. If you mean in any weight division, then I think there have been a few. Corrales v Castillo in 2005 is the best one I can offer. I can't find rounds 1-9 without shitty music over the top, but round 10 is phenomenal on its own.

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:12 am

Yep, should have specified heavyweights. This is obviously the best matchup when it comes to other wight divisions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT4hHMIpnjU

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:53 am

Not really related, but no better place to post it. This is a nice 12-minute video, really beautifully shot, that made me cry a little bit.

Outside the Lines: The Promise

p.s. you will have to get past a misspelt 'shedule' but don't let that stop you.

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:30 pm

Matt Morrison wrote:Not really related, but no better place to post it. This is a nice 12-minute video, really beautifully shot, that made me cry a little bit.

Outside the Lines: The Promise

Nice.