Politics in General

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:35 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:Unemployment was high under Thatcher. Doesn't automatically follow she caused it (or didn't cause it), it's more complicated than that.

As for "there's a reason why so many people refuse on principle to vote Conservative" - the reason is stupidity. Belief in this hysteria Labour amongst others repeatedly whip up that Conservatives are somehow evil and that they delight in taxing people and cutting benefits. It's patently absurd yet millions actually buy into it.
If a party's ideology is very far away from one's own, then I don't think it's particularly stupid.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:27 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Craig Beevers wrote:Unemployment was high under Thatcher. Doesn't automatically follow she caused it (or didn't cause it), it's more complicated than that.

As for "there's a reason why so many people refuse on principle to vote Conservative" - the reason is stupidity. Belief in this hysteria Labour amongst others repeatedly whip up that Conservatives are somehow evil and that they delight in taxing people and cutting benefits. It's patently absurd yet millions actually buy into it.
If a party's ideology is very far away from one's own, then I don't think it's particularly stupid.
Party's ideologies change on a regular basis, depending heavily on the leader and whether they're in power (Cameron was a lot greener when he was in opposition). It would be interesting if the ideology ever came into the equation though, in my lifetime the choice has simply been vote for the party that's competent or the one that isn't and I don't see it changing any time soon. Lib Dems are a bit of an unknown, but I can't see them getting in anyway.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Clive Brooker » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:40 am

Ian Volante wrote:I'll remind you, the only time in Thatcher's time as PM that unemployment fell was "towards the end". Here's a pretty picture:

Image
When talking about the economic woes of the day, my grandmother used to say that what we need is a jolly good war. When I was of an age where I might be eligible for call-up I had my doubts, but nowadays perhaps I see more merit in the argument.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Lesley Hines » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:40 pm

Clive Brooker wrote:When talking about the economic woes of the day, my grandmother used to say that what we need is a jolly good war. When I was of an age where I might be eligible for call-up I had my doubts, but nowadays perhaps I see more merit in the argument.
OK, we are at war: are you saying our unemployment would otherwise be higher? Or possibly that the world wars were better than the ones we've got now.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Clive Brooker » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:47 pm

Lesley Hines wrote:OK, we are at war: are you saying our unemployment would otherwise be higher? Or possibly that the world wars were better than the ones we've got now.
"Better" is rather a perverse way of putting it. The way in which WW2, in particular, was able to unite the nation is something that I don't think we'll see again.

Ironically, the Falklands conflict may have been largely responsible for the sharp fall in unemployment in the late 1980s, as it provided the distraction necessary for the divine Margaret to begin the economic U-turn she hadn't dared to make before then. It's hard to believe just how unpopular she was during 1980/81 in particular; I can remember feeling genuinely sorry for her, admittedly from the perspective of someone who was at the time largely unaffected by her policies.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon O'Neill » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:36 pm


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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:43 pm

Gave up after a minute. What a complete moron. Or as he'd say what a fuck fucking complete fucking moron. Fucking.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:58 pm

Oh and I'm hugely against the strikes.

I'm so sick of the way every news item in general seems to focus on nurses and teachers. Nurses are low-skilled and get a good deal. The general teaching standard is shite and most of them (particularly at primary/secondary school) get a very good deal, they also have heavily political unions which back a party who tried to bankrupt the country. There are plenty of public sector full-time workers on nearer £10k a year, why not focus on them.

A few months we'll have to hear about firefighters and policemen, the two other media favourites who get stunningly good pay deals for supposedly 'putting their life on the line' each day... Ugh.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon Corby » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:18 pm

Have you grabbed one of these well-paid low-skilled jobs Craig, or are you still unemployed?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Lesley Hines » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:20 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:Nurses are low-skilled
You what? Come again? I'm going to need something from you to back up that statement please, as I guarantee the guy that put me on an aspirator and was inserting NG tubes and compression apparatus, and balanced my internal pressures, seemed to know what he was doing. All nurses are graduates (proper nurses that is, rather than auxiliary) and a huge number have specialist training on top. Srsly, seeing a really good nurse in action is absolutely amazing.

Funnily enough I also read a paper* recently that suggested parental input was far more important to a child's education, so maybe the standard of parenting is shite, and teachers are just doing their best to pick up the pieces. I'll give you there are some shit teachers but there are some amazing ones too.

I also assume that if you hear a burglar in your house in the wee small hours you won't call the police to deal with it, or if your house is on fire (maybe the burglar did it?) it can just burn down because after all, police and firefighters are "Ugh".

Be against the strikes by all means if you want to, that's your prerogative, but think your reasons through a little more carefully than badmouthing people trying to (or at least paid to) help you, eh.

*Here's a nice one but there's loads more out there.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:49 pm

Jon Corby wrote:Have you grabbed one of these well-paid low-skilled jobs Craig, or are you still unemployed?
I look after my sister and have done for a couple of years. Not that it's any of your business.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:02 pm

Lesley Hines wrote:
Craig Beevers wrote:Nurses are low-skilled
You what? Come again? I'm going to need something from you to back up that statement please, as I guarantee the guy that put me on an aspirator and was inserting NG tubes and compression apparatus, and balanced my internal pressures, seemed to know what he was doing. All nurses are graduates (proper nurses that is, rather than auxiliary) and a huge number have specialist training on top. Srsly, seeing a really good nurse in action is absolutely amazing.

Funnily enough I also read a paper* recently that suggested parental input was far more important to a child's education, so maybe the standard of parenting is shite, and teachers are just doing their best to pick up the pieces. I'll give you there are some shit teachers but there are some amazing ones too.

I also assume that if you hear a burglar in your house in the wee small hours you won't call the police to deal with it, or if your house is on fire (maybe the burglar did it?) it can just burn down because after all, police and firefighters are "Ugh".

Be against the strikes by all means if you want to, that's your prerogative, but think your reasons through a little more carefully than badmouthing people trying to (or at least paid to) help you, eh.

*Here's a nice one but there's loads more out there.
Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do. That makes it low-skilled, otherwise there wouldn't be enough nurses for one hospital because not enough people could do it. My family has plenty of experiences with nurses who seemed to feel threatening by my sister having a brain, amongst other things they failed to do.

I wish people would get over this hero complex crap. They're doing a job, not brushing with dicing with near death on a regular basis. I suggest you look at the statistics on police and firefighters. The emotive arguments you use are entirely predictable and hold no water.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon Corby » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:16 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:I look after my sister and have done for a couple of years. Not that it's any of your business.
Very commendable. What does this entail?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil Reynolds » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:39 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do. That makes it low-skilled
Sorry, you're saying that being trained in something doesn't make you skilled? :?

From the OED: skilled (of work) requiring special abilities or training: a highly skilled job

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:34 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:Oh and I'm hugely against the strikes.
Why? When people signed up for these jobs, they signed up for a specific pension deal, which they would expect to be honoured. Just like anyone would.
party who tried to bankrupt the country.
Yeah, brilliant. This sort of over-simplistic nonsense is exactly what you complain about when people bash the Tories.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Lesley Hines » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:36 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do. That makes it low-skilled, otherwise there wouldn't be enough nurses for one hospital because not enough people could do it.
You could say that about any job though. Any person of an ability to gain the requisite degree is capable of doing the job, although in the case of nursing, however, you also need to be able to cope with blood / pus / faeces / and other general grossness. Oh, and the dedication to any additional training, work shifts, cope with people dying on you as part of your job, be able to stay calm in a crisis, be methodical, and handle wankers who seem to think they're better than you as they're ignorant enough to think your job is unskilled.
My family has plenty of experiences with nurses who seemed to feel threatening by my sister having a brain, amongst other things they failed to do.
That doesn't make sense. :?
I wish people would get over this hero complex crap. They're doing a job, not brushing with dicing with near death on a regular basis. I suggest you look at the statistics on police and firefighters.

That's so nice of you to call them heroes! No-one else has :) Personally I think that's gilding the lily a little but chacun à son goût. :lol: I'd be delighted to look at some statistics. Which statistics on police and firefighters (who aren't striking) would you like me to look at? Alternatively, since it's your argument, you could present them to me. I'm quite good at reading: a hyperlink will do.
The emotive arguments you use are entirely predictable and hold no water.
Which bit was emotive? Jus' stating fact, that's all.

The thing about all the professions you've mentioned is they're all jobs that definitely need doing and all jobs with really no alternative of employer. Generally with strikers I tend to think that if you don't like your cushy job in the civil service bugger off and get a job in the private sector where conditions are far less accommodating and you have to pay your own pension etc. However, with your well-thought-out examples there isn't any large-scale private alternative.

I'm not thrilled about the strikes - everyone I know is working harder for less money (apart from all the spongers) and my pension company went bust. Bad luck eh people? Plus I think they're premature and should have continued with negotiations before resorting to strike action. However, I would far rather see organised strikes as demonstrations of people's discontent than riots.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Julie T » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:41 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:
Lesley Hines wrote:
Craig Beevers wrote:Nurses are low-skilled
You what? Come again? I'm going to need something from you to back up that statement please, as I guarantee the guy that put me on an aspirator and was inserting NG tubes and compression apparatus, and balanced my internal pressures, seemed to know what he was doing. All nurses are graduates (proper nurses that is, rather than auxiliary) and a huge number have specialist training on top. Srsly, seeing a really good nurse in action is absolutely amazing.
Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do. That makes it low-skilled, otherwise there wouldn't be enough nurses for one hospital because not enough people could do it. My family has plenty of experiences with nurses who seemed to feel threatening by my sister having a brain, amongst other things they failed to do.

I wish people would get over this hero complex crap. They're doing a job, not brushing with dicing with near death on a regular basis. I suggest you look at the statistics on police and firefighters. The emotive arguments you use are entirely predictable and hold no water.
While unlucky in your medical condition, Lesley, you appear to be lucky in your experience of medical staff. So I can understand your admiration of the many dedicated and professional staff that the NHS undoubtably has.

However, my experience has been of the kind hinted at by Craig, so I certainly see where his cynicism is coming from.

Probably don't want to read any further, Jono!

Any decent healthcare or other public sector help that I or my family have received, has been extremely rare. Some examples of poor treatment are:

While in hospital with broken legs and hips a few years ago, and too weak to complain, I was allowed to get bed sores because the nurses would not turn me and I was unable to do so. I came round from one operation, in the hospital ward with only a curtain between myself and an old lady shitting diarrhoea into a commode seat - unsurprisingly this was the one time I puked coming round from an anaesthetic.

I have a son who is autistic and has severe learning difficulties, but we do not receive any assistance apart from benefits due to the hostile nature of any brushes with the authorities. I sometimes think that their attitude is intentionally awful so that people don't ask for help.

I had a cardiac event last December, and the meagre and inept medical help I received then and since would be laughable if it wasn't so serious. My daughter has since had to give up her job to help me care for Robert, as we get no assistance.

Recent newspaper articles have highlighted that some hospital patients or their relatives are now paying for a private nurse to be by their bedside to make sure that they get decent care. Being poor, I am glad that I have brought up helpful children with a sense of duty, or I would dread getting old.

As in most things, ones own experiences affect ones attitude towards health professionals. I don't agree with everything Craig posted, but I do empathise with the attitude.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Michael Wallace » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:01 pm

I've had a lifetime of medical treatment and it's been ok.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Lesley Hines » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:04 pm

Sorry you've had some bad experiences and your local hospital sounds awful. So's mine, which is why Birmingham who oversee my treatment kindly make sure I'm always seen there. If it were down to Worcester I wouldn't be here to have the debate. I could give you some proper horror stories too ;) Nurses are still highly trained and highly skilled though. There aren't enough of them and there are some lazy crap ones too, to be sure. They shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush though. I'm completely bewildered by an argument that states a job where a condition of employment is at minimum a vocational degree is "low-skilled".

Try finding a sympathetic GP if you could do with some assistance - you'd be amazed what a difference having a good one makes in getting stuff sorted. Mine's superb :)
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil Reynolds » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:00 pm

Lesley Hines wrote:I'm completely bewildered by an argument that states a job where a condition of employment is at minimum a vocational degree is "low-skilled".
You might recall that Craig tends to have his own private definition of certain words (e.g. indistinct) that are shared by no one else (and certainly by no known dictionary). I suspect that "low-skilled" is another example.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Liam Tiernan » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:23 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:
Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do. That makes it low-skilled, otherwise there wouldn't be enough nurses for one hospital because not enough people could do it. My family has plenty of experiences with nurses who seemed to feel threatening by my sister having a brain, amongst other things they failed to do.
It feels kind of odd to read this paragraph without seeing a yellow stick figure prancing about.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:25 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do. That makes it low-skilled
And those making the cuts? MPs - a perfect example of a low-skilled job if ever I saw one. So I'm not sure we can trust them to make the right decision here.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Paul Howe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:10 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Craig Beevers wrote:Oh and I'm hugely against the strikes.
Why? When people signed up for these jobs, they signed up for a specific pension deal, which they would expect to be honoured. Just like anyone would.
That's not true though is it? There's only a contractural obligation to honour the benefits that have already been accrued, and over the last decade a lot of members of defined benefit schemes in the private sector have accepted a worse deal than the one they signed up for (either in terms of increased contributions and/or reduced benefits) and in some cases seen their scheme entirely closed to any future accrual.

My feelings on the strike are pretty mixed. I think the best way to frame the question is to regard salary + pension as the total compensation for a worker and if the total compensation is reasonable it doesn't really matter what proportion is paid out as pension or how valuable the pension is compared to what you might get in the private sector. And the problem is I have no idea. I expect there are some in the public sector who are undervalued and some who are taking home significantly more than their work is really worth, but I don't really know.

Independent of the question of whether public sector workers are fairly compensated is whether current public sector pensions will at some point knacker the economy (even more than it already is). Looking at it from this perspective, the problem is not necessarily that public sector pensions are unaffordable, but more the huge uncertainty about how much they will eventually cost. The affordability depends on how a number of assumptions (mortality, inflation, economic growth, wage growth in the public sector, percentage of people employed in the public sector etc) evolve over a time frame measured in decades. Its impossible to predict with any degree of accuracy how these things will look over this time period, and if assumptions turn out significantly worse than expected then the pensions liability will be much greater than expected. From this perspective reducing the pension element of public sector compensation is just sensible risk management, as it gives you much greater certainty about what your future liabilities will look like.

Given this, and the fact that the new pension schemes are still extremely generous in comparison to what will be available to most new entrants in the private sector, plus the schemes have been redesigned in such a way that the lower earners are proportionately the least affected, I can't say I disagree with the changes, but I do have a lot of sympathy with what the strikers are trying to achieve.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Lesley Hines » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:13 am

Just as a bit of an aside, I went to the flicks the other night and they were trailering a movie called "The Iron Lady" with Meryl Streep as Maggie and Jim Broadbent as Denis. Thought it would be interesting to see how history's been written here. It's out in January. Try not to throw your knickers at the screen tho Rhys ;) :lol:
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil Reynolds » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:01 am

Lesley Hines wrote:Just as a bit of an aside, I went to the flicks the other night and they were trailering a movie called "The Iron Lady" with Meryl Streep as Maggie and Jim Broadbent as Denis. Thought it would be interesting to see how history's been written here.
Pretty much what you'd expect, according to The Guardian: "The tone is jaunty and affectionate, a blend of Yes Minister and The King's Speech... there's little sense of the outside world, the human cost, or the ripple effect of divisive government policies. It is a movie that gives us Thatcher without Thatcherism."

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ben Hunter » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:46 pm

Craig Beevers wrote:Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do, unlike being a Scrabble champ.
I agree.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Josh Hurst » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:58 pm

Ben Hunter wrote:
Craig Beevers wrote:Most nurses are just doing things that almost anyone could be trained to do, unlike being a Scrabble champ.
I agree.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon Corby » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:05 pm

Josh Hurst wrote:Like a true predator, out in the wilderness for so long, tirelessly waiting for the perfect opportunity to pounce...
Or he's just split up with his bird :?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:59 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Lesley Hines wrote:Just as a bit of an aside, I went to the flicks the other night and they were trailering a movie called "The Iron Lady" with Meryl Streep as Maggie and Jim Broadbent as Denis. Thought it would be interesting to see how history's been written here.
Pretty much what you'd expect, according to The Guardian: "The tone is jaunty and affectionate, a blend of Yes Minister and The King's Speech... there's little sense of the outside world, the human cost, or the ripple effect of divisive government policies. It is a movie that gives us Thatcher without Thatcherism."
In the Telegraph it says:
The fact that Baroness Thatcher is being portrayed as a lonely figure slipping into dementia probably has something to do with a Labour right playing her. Credit where it's due (she is shown as a good leader through the miner's strikes and the Falklands war) but what is incorrect brings it down ever so slightly. ****.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil Reynolds » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:25 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:In the Telegraph it says:
...something to do with a Labour right playing her...
I thought Meryl Streep was playing her. Did the Telegraph say anything else, perhaps something that made grammatical sense?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by JimBentley » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:07 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:In the Telegraph it says:
...something to do with a Labour right playing her...
I thought Meryl Streep was playing her. Did the Telegraph say anything else, perhaps something that made grammatical sense?
According to Alistair McGowan, it's not only the best impression of Thatcher he's ever seen, it's the best impression of anyone he's ever seen. When I heard it was Meryl Streep in the role, I pretty much knew it would be good, but that does sound impressive. I'm quite interested in seeing the film now.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Julie T » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:54 pm

JimBentley wrote: According to Alistair McGowan, it's not only the best impression of Thatcher he's ever seen, it's the best impression of anyone he's ever seen. When I heard it was Meryl Streep in the role, I pretty much knew it would be good, but that does sound impressive. I'm quite interested in seeing the film now.
I was initially annoyed that a yank was cast in the role - why not Helen Mirren or another Brit? However, from the clips I've seen on BBCNews24 today, I agree with McGowan that Meryl Streep appears to have done an excellent job. Hate Thatcher and her politics and the way she shafted Britain, but looking forward to seeing the film especially as it's about near history which I've lived through.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Charlie Reams » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:01 pm

Julie T wrote:
JimBentley wrote: According to Alistair McGowan, it's not only the best impression of Thatcher he's ever seen, it's the best impression of anyone he's ever seen. When I heard it was Meryl Streep in the role, I pretty much knew it would be good, but that does sound impressive. I'm quite interested in seeing the film now.
I was initially annoyed that a yank was cast in the role - why not Helen Mirren or another Brit?
Umm, because people are cast for their suitability for the role rather than for their "yank" status?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:45 pm

Facebook debate emerging on these strikes.

Link if anyone's interested.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon O'Neill » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:53 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:Facebook debate emerging on these strikes.

Link if anyone's interested.
I'm not even sure who's trolling who any more.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:18 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Julie T wrote:
JimBentley wrote: According to Alistair McGowan, it's not only the best impression of Thatcher he's ever seen, it's the best impression of anyone he's ever seen. When I heard it was Meryl Streep in the role, I pretty much knew it would be good, but that does sound impressive. I'm quite interested in seeing the film now.
I was initially annoyed that a yank was cast in the role - why not Helen Mirren or another Brit?
Umm, because people are cast for their suitability for the role rather than for their "yank" status?
But speaking in a foreign accent is just another hurdle to overcome. I always find it strange when they get Brits to play Americans or Americans to play Brits. I imagine that for each role, there are many people who could do a good job (most gushing praise about actors is BS), including several who wouldn't have to perfect a completely different accent from their own.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon O'Neill » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:41 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
Julie T wrote:I was initially annoyed that a yank was cast in the role - why not Helen Mirren or another Brit?
Umm, because people are cast for their suitability for the role rather than for their "yank" status?
But speaking in a foreign accent is just another hurdle to overcome. I always find it strange when they get Brits to play Americans or Americans to play Brits. I imagine that for each role, there are many people who could do a good job (most gushing praise about actors is BS), including several who wouldn't have to perfect a completely different accent from their own.
Out of interest, what's your favourite film? I get the impression this post might be equivalent to Kirk commenting on the Booker Prize, or Mark James commenting on the day's newspaper headlines.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:43 pm

Paul Howe wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Craig Beevers wrote:Oh and I'm hugely against the strikes.
Why? When people signed up for these jobs, they signed up for a specific pension deal, which they would expect to be honoured. Just like anyone would.
That's not true though is it? There's only a contractural obligation to honour the benefits that have already been accrued, and over the last decade a lot of members of defined benefit schemes in the private sector have accepted a worse deal than the one they signed up for (either in terms of increased contributions and/or reduced benefits) and in some cases seen their scheme entirely closed to any future accrual.
Are they actually honouring what has been accrued until now? They've been talking about having to work longer - presumably people should be able to withdraw the pension based on what they've already contributed at the age they'd originally been told they could. Is that the case? And will it be the same amount as originally agreed?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:44 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:But speaking in a foreign accent is just another hurdle to overcome. I always find it strange when they get Brits to play Americans or Americans to play Brits. I imagine that for each role, there are many people who could do a good job (most gushing praise about actors is BS), including several who wouldn't have to perfect a completely different accent from their own.
Out of interest, what's your favourite film? I get the impression this post might be equivalent to Kirk commenting on the Booker Prize, or Mark James commenting on the day's newspaper headlines.
I don't have a favourite film. Actually I don't watch as many films as I could, but certainly most mainstream films are hype over quality almost every time.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon O'Neill » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:49 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:But speaking in a foreign accent is just another hurdle to overcome. I always find it strange when they get Brits to play Americans or Americans to play Brits. I imagine that for each role, there are many people who could do a good job (most gushing praise about actors is BS), including several who wouldn't have to perfect a completely different accent from their own.
Out of interest, what's your favourite film? I get the impression this post might be equivalent to Kirk commenting on the Booker Prize, or Mark James commenting on the day's newspaper headlines.
I don't have a favourite film. Actually I don't watch as many films as I could, but certainly most mainstream films are hype over quality almost every time.
Right.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:57 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote: I get the impression this post might be equivalent to Kirk commenting on the Booker Prize, or Mark James commenting on the day's newspaper headlines.
Actually I've liked a few newspaper headlines in the past. Particularly the sports ones like the "Super Cally go Ballistic..." one or when Turkey beat Ireland in a playoff when Mick McCarthy was manager and the headline was "Are you Turking the Mick?" Or when Tony Cottee came off the bench and scored a few goals and the headline was "What a lotty Cottee gotty." My favourite headline of all time though was when they had finished building The Spire in Dublin and the headline said "I can see Cleary's (which is a shop on the same street) now, the crane has gone." Although I think I did just get to hear about most of them without having to read them myself.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Paul Howe » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:32 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: Are they actually honouring what has been accrued until now? They've been talking about having to work longer - presumably people should be able to withdraw the pension based on what they've already contributed at the age they'd originally been told they could. Is that the case? And will it be the same amount as originally agreed?
Kind of. If say the current arrangement was to get 1/60th of final salary for every year worked and the new arrangement was 1/65th of career average salary for every year, someone who has currently been employed for 25 years who then retires after another 20 years would receive an annual pension of (25 / 60) * Final Salary + ( 20 / 65) * Career Avg Salary. Its the 25/60th of final salary that's protected. Although the retirement age will be raised, anyone with protected pension benefits will be able to take those benefits at whatever the current retirement age is for their scheme. There will also likely be some additional sweeteners for those close to retirement in whatever deal is eventually reached, but we'll have to wait and say what form those take.

However its not possible to put a definite value on the protected benefit now, as this will depend on how your salary evolves over your career, and, for inflation linked pensions, the index used to increase the annual payout to match inflation. The latter is pretty contentious, as the government has recently changed the index used to increase a number of payments (public sector pensions, the state pension to which everyone is entitled, and many other welfare benefits) from RPI to CPI. Since the latter is expected to be consistently lower, this likely represents a significant reduction to the value of even the protected benefits mentioned above. This was actually in the news today, as a court ruled that this change is legal although there is still the possibility of appeal.

Friday night fun. :?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Michael Wallace » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:36 pm

Paul Howe wrote:Friday night fun. :?
I'm watching youtubes of ceefax.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:53 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:
Paul Howe wrote:Friday night fun. :?
I'm watching youtubes of ceefax.
If you've got a VCR thing and old stuff taped off the television, then depending on the particular VCR and television, you might be able to watch the Ceefax that was going on at the time. I remember doing that once ages ago.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:25 pm

I miss watching football score updates on Ceefax. Red button just isn't the same.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:34 pm

KEN'S UNFARE DEAL

Ken Livingstone has pledged to cut fares, but is this a true indication of both Ken and his support? The choice is for Londoners - Ken wants to improve things in the short term but it would be ruined in the long term. To cut investment for the much needed tube upgrade plan is criminal, and in 2016 all the lines (bar 3) will be upgraded, meaning quicker times. This fare increase is justified and only reflects the increase in the quality of service, with a single bus fare only rising by 5p. The most expensive tube ticket will rise by just £1.00 (from £17 to £18).

Boris' tube fare increase is a good idea and in fact is actually less, as a percentage, then the journey times decrease on the Metropolitan Line, the longest line, which has four station out of five outside of the M25 (the other one is Epping on the Central Line). Journey times will have been cut by 34% in 2016 and the new S Stock trains will have a capacity increase of 25%. Combined with new timetables, this looks set to bring an amazing change, and, naturally, the fare must reflect the quality.

So the choice is yours - Shabby tube but lower fares, or better tube and higher fares.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:56 pm

Come live here, then you'd have something worthwhile to whinge about.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Julie T » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:05 am

Ian Volante wrote:Come live here, then you'd have something worthwhile to whinge about.
Are you refering to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams

Costed at £375 million, now estimated to be £1 billion by the time it's finished, and years of disruption during construction.
All for a few yards of tramlines that the locals didn't really want! :shock:
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:07 pm

I make my first speech having been elected chairman of the school debating society.

BACK BORIS

Let me start by saying that Boris Johnson is a good Mayor of London, and some of Ken Livingstone's claims have been ridiculous, not helped by the fact that the BBC have been showing Mr. Livingstone lying, and saying that he is telling the truth.

A Labour lord criticised his own party yesterday by saying, and I quote, I am not making this up:
[He] has no explorative strategies, is losing the [...] argument, and overall [...] is weak.
Ken Livingstone's lying has reached new extremes, as he has "promised" more policing, claiming that we have cut police, yet visible police patrols will reach 1,000,000 by May this year. This shows a typical Labour candidate - lying his way in. However, as he has stood before, the public has past experiences of Ken Livingstone.

"Tube Geek" Geoff Marshall has made several comments about the tube upgrade plan. In 2003 he wrote on his website that,
the tube is in need of constant repair [...] needs upgrading.
Yet in 2011, at the end of his seventeenth attempt to break the Guinness World Record for Fastest Time to travel to all 270 London Underground Stations, he "tweeted" that
the tube is worse than in 2005 [...] I have the figures.
I asked him for the figures for the Jubilee and Waterloo & City lines (the two lines whose upgrade has been officially completed) and I did not receive a reply. If he takes some more figures before the election then he will see that the Victoria line upgrade has been completed as well. Just think - when was the last signal failure on the Jubilee Line? You have to go back to mid-December, and before that, October.

Independent research by the Financial Times blows Ken Livingstone's claims out of the window. Jobs have gone up in London by 2.9%, not down by 5% as Ken Livingstone claims. Crime has gone down by 10% (even when the riots are included), not up as Ken Livingstone claims.

This election is going to be a two horse race. But Labour Lad should be disqualified for lying.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:09 pm

Lesley Hines wrote:Just as a bit of an aside, I went to the flicks the other night and they were trailering a movie called "The Iron Lady" with Meryl Streep as Maggie and Jim Broadbent as Denis. Thought it would be interesting to see how history's been written here. It's out in January. Try not to throw your knickers at the screen tho Rhys ;) :lol:
Just seen this post. It's out tomorrow. I am prepared to see it as, apparently, the only bit that is anti-Thatcher is the dementia bit, which is quite appalling that they were allowed to do this, especially whilst the honourable Baroness is still with us. :)
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:31 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote: the only bit that is anti-Thatcher is the dementia bit
If that's a negative, then it's a plus that she isn't played by a ginger.

If that's not fair and balanced, I don't know what it.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Thomas Carey » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:59 pm

This happened a few weeks ago, only just remembered to post:

Me and some mates at school got talking about Thatcher, and the at one point one of them said "Wait. Stop. I have a very important announcement."

He then stood up, wearing a top hat (because it was non-uniform day). Better still, it was during one of those awkward silences where the whole canteen goes quiet, so the whole of key stage 3 was listening.
His speech:
Jacob wrote: I don't CARE about all this politics stuff.
But Margaret Thatcher stopped schools giving children FREE MILK.
Now THAT is PURE EVIL.
He then sat down to lots of laughter, applause, wooing and someone getting an exclusion for throwing 'confetti' (bits of shredded leaves) onto him from the balcony.

Awesome. :lol:
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:19 pm

Thomas Carey wrote:This happened a few weeks ago, only just remembered to post:

Me and some mates at school got talking about Thatcher, and the at one point one of them said "Wait. Stop. I have a very important announcement."

He then stood up, wearing a top hat (because it was non-uniform day). Better still, it was during one of those awkward silences where the whole canteen goes quiet, so the whole of key stage 3 was listening.
His speech:
Jacob wrote: I don't CARE about all this politics stuff.
But Margaret Thatcher stopped schools giving children FREE MILK.
Now THAT is PURE EVIL.
He then sat down to lots of laughter, applause, wooing and someone getting an exclusion for throwing 'confetti' (bits of shredded leaves) onto him from the balcony.

Awesome. :lol:
Milk is a privilege, not a right. This happened to me too.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jennifer Steadman » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:07 pm

I never realised until I read this thread that teenage boys talk about Thatcher so much.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Lesley Hines » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:31 pm

Jennifer Steadman wrote:I never realised until I read this thread that teenage boys talk about Thatcher so much.
'Sfunny you should say that, as from my conversations with mothers of teenage boys they all seem to spend all their time wanking like demons. (Sorry lads but your mums have noticed the Andrex bills have gone up / washing is wet and/or creaky / etc.) I'm just hoping it's not too much of a logical fallacy that that's what they're thinking about while that's what they're doing. :shock:

(Unless they actually do think she's a saucy minx Hugh Grant-stylie. Far, far TMI :lol: )
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil Reynolds » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:55 pm

Lesley Hines wrote:from my conversations with mothers of teenage boys they all seem to spend all their time wanking like demons.
Anyone else noticed how Kai seems to have gone very quiet lately?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:54 pm

Lesley Hines wrote:conversations with mothers of teenage boys they all seem to spend all their time wanking like demons.
Try and survive 5 minutes in my school without a sex reference!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil Reynolds » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:08 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:Try and survive 5 minutes in my school without a sex reference!
You need to provide references for it these days? Blimey. :shock:

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:12 pm

Lesley Hines wrote:
Jennifer Steadman wrote:I never realised until I read this thread that teenage boys talk about Thatcher so much.
'Sfunny you should say that, as from my conversations with mothers of teenage boys they all seem to spend all their time wanking like demons. (Sorry lads but your mums have noticed the Andrex bills have gone up / washing is wet and/or creaky / etc.) I'm just hoping it's not too much of a logical fallacy that that's what they're thinking about while that's what they're doing. :shock:

(Unless they actually do think she's a saucy minx Hugh Grant-stylie. Far, far TMI :lol: )
I always wondered how obvious it must have been. Was probably around that time that my mother encouraged me to deal with my bedclothes rather than her having to play Rubik's Sheet.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:46 pm

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:Try and survive 5 minutes in my school without a sex reference!
You need to provide references for it these days? Blimey. :shock:
[citation needed]
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