Politics in General

Discuss anything interesting but not remotely Countdown-related here.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Jennifer Steadman wrote:Children debating without researching. Sigh.
Rhys Benjamin wrote:We should aspire to share the views of great political leaders.
Not when they screw up the lives of millions of people. Do you aspire to be like Hitler or Stalin? Exactly. To use your reasoning from further down your post, there's a reason why so many people refuse on principle to vote Conservative, and that reason is Mrs Thatcher's legacy - a legacy of unemployment, unfair taxes and rising poverty. They may have gleaned the most votes at the General Election, but when you consider how untenable the Labour government's position had become amid the recession (and Gordon Brown's unpopularity), they should've had a landslide majority. Easily. Mrs Thatcher is at least partly responsible for them not achieving that.
Woah, Woah, Woah, Mrs. Thatcher did NOT cause a rise in unemployment. Maybe towards the end, but explain how she won 3 elections?

James Callaghan RUINED the mining industry - he was operating off the trade unions. He made the mines unsafe to work in.
Lol, you're even better than Michael Howard at not answering questions.

Also, read this. Obviously they're biassed, I know.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

And as for some argumental basis on economic matters, here's a good starting point:

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/comm ... 99-111.pdf

Page 23 shows that ole Maggie managed to reduce unemployment rates to 50% higher than when she started by the time she got the boot. I suppose it was the fault of Tebbit and Heseltine really.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers »

Jennifer Steadman wrote:Not when they screw up the lives of millions of people. Do you aspire to be like Hitler or Stalin? Exactly. To use your reasoning from further down your post, there's a reason why so many people refuse on principle to vote Conservative, and that reason is Mrs Thatcher's legacy - a legacy of unemployment, unfair taxes and rising poverty. They may have gleaned the most votes at the General Election, but when you consider how untenable the Labour government's position had become amid the recession (and Gordon Brown's unpopularity), they should've had a landslide majority. Easily. Mrs Thatcher is at least partly responsible for them not achieving that.
No Mrs Thatcher's legacy was the much stronger position she put the UK in - for a legacy you mostly need to look at the period of time after she knifed in the back. She basically won the election for John Major. She built up the UK, which Major and Blair reaped the rewards of.

As for unfair taxes... well it depends what you mean by fair. The Poll Tax was fairer than the Council Tax in terms of proportionality - as in it would better correlate the use of services versus payment. It was just that it was a flat rate tax so it disproportionally hit the poor.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jennifer Steadman »

Craig Beevers wrote:No Mrs Thatcher's legacy was the much stronger position she put the UK in - for a legacy you mostly need to look at the period of time after she knifed in the back. She basically won the election for John Major. She built up the UK, which Major and Blair reaped the rewards of.
But at what cost? The cost of rising unemployment/poverty, etc. There's not much point having lowered levels of inflation if you haven't got the money to buy anything with.
Also, Thatcher's approval ratings were low for most of her time in power, whereas Major had the highest ratings of any PM since Harold Macmillan. I'm not saying that approval ratings necessarily equate to votes, but being popular with the public can hardly be a bad thing around the time of an election...
Craig Beevers wrote:As for unfair taxes... well it depends what you mean by fair. The Poll Tax was fairer than the Council Tax in terms of proportionality - as in it would better correlate the use of services versus payment. It was just that it was a flat rate tax so it disproportionally hit the poor.
Which is unfair. There's never going to be a completely fair tax, but IMO it's better for one to affect the rich than the poor.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers »

Jennifer Steadman wrote:
Craig Beevers wrote:No Mrs Thatcher's legacy was the much stronger position she put the UK in - for a legacy you mostly need to look at the period of time after she knifed in the back. She basically won the election for John Major. She built up the UK, which Major and Blair reaped the rewards of.
But at what cost? The cost of rising unemployment/poverty, etc. There's not much point having lowered levels of inflation if you haven't got the money to buy anything with.
Also, Thatcher's approval ratings were low for most of her time in power, whereas Major had the highest ratings of any PM since Harold Macmillan. I'm not saying that approval ratings necessarily equate to votes, but being popular with the public can hardly be a bad thing around the time of an election...
No rising unemployment and poverty were a result of the mess the Labour government had left. It takes time to see the full effects of a government, particularly if there are global factors muddying the waters. If you take Labour's last horrendous reign of power they had the advantage of a good economy built up and for a long time global factors in their favour. Does that mean their legacy was lower unemployment and poverty? No. The global factors balanced themselves out a bit in the last few years and then everyone with a vaguely open mind saw how bad their governance had been. Their legacy is huge debt, PFIs, inefficiency etc. and that in turn means lower spending, higher taxes, higher unemployment and increased poverty.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

I'm quite surprised that Karen hasn't interjected in this discussion after her last question here.
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Re: Politics in General

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(-2.62,-2.51)
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Re: Politics in General

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:No difference whatsoever.
Considering that you just make up your answers to appear as "right wing" as possible, I think you're actually doing quite a bad job.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:No difference whatsoever.
Considering that you just make up your answers to appear as "right wing" as possible, I think you're actually doing quite a bad job.
I don't. That's my views.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:No difference whatsoever.
Considering that you just make up your answers to appear as "right wing" as possible, I think you're actually doing quite a bad job.
I don't. That's my views.
Why do you keep redoing it to see if you can beat your score then?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote: Considering that you just make up your answers to appear as "right wing" as possible, I think you're actually doing quite a bad job.
I don't. That's my views.
Why do you keep redoing it to see if you can beat your score then?
No, it's because that the link changes with each result. The scores stay the same.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Karen Pearson »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:I'm quite surprised that Karen hasn't interjected in this discussion after her last question here.
So, if someone starts a thread about mormons, you'll expect me to contribute on the basis that I once had a question about the founder of the mormon church in a quiz?? Bizarre!

P.S. I had the misfortune to live through the Thatcher era. With hindsight, I can accept that she made some changes that were needed but overall, in my opinion, it was not a good era. She created a culture of each man for himself, and an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude prevailed. However, it did inspire some fantastic Billy Bragg lyrics!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Karen Pearson wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:I'm quite surprised that Karen hasn't interjected in this discussion after her last question here.
So, if someone starts a thread about mormons, you'll expect me to contribute on the basis that I once had a question about the founder of the mormon church in a quiz?? Bizarre!
Yes, I do.
Karen Pearson wrote:P.S. I had the misfortune to live through the Thatcher era.
:x
Karen Pearson wrote:With hindsight, I can accept that she made some changes that were needed
:)
Karen Pearson wrote:but overall, in my opinion, it was not a good era.
:x
Karen Pearson wrote:She created a culture of each man for himself,
:)
Karen Pearson wrote:and an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude prevailed. However, it did inspire some fantastic Billy Bragg lyrics!
:|

Make your mind up, Karen! You're making more U-turns than Ed "Monster" Miliband and Nick "Crap" Clegg put together! You should be acting like David "Clever" Cameron!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Karen Pearson »

Sigh!

I'm not even going to both with a proper reply to this as it would just be a waste of breath.

I'll go and stick a Billy Bragg CD (or even LP) on instead!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by JimBentley »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Karen Pearson wrote:She created a culture of each man for himself
:)
Please explain to me why this is a good thing?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

JimBentley wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Karen Pearson wrote:She created a culture of each man for himself
:)
Please explain to me why this is a good thing?
If people are selfless then they won't live. Make the most out of your life - you only get one chance.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
JimBentley wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote: :)
Please explain to me why this is a good thing?
If people are selfless then they won't live. Make the most out of your life - you only get one chance.
Wow... this is inspirational!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
JimBentley wrote: Please explain to me why this is a good thing?
If people are selfless then they won't live. Make the most out of your life - you only get one chance.
Wow... this is inspirational!
I was going to make a success of my career in the public sector, but this has convinced me to be a serial killer instead.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Karen Pearson »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: If people are selfless then they won't live.
Have a go Rhys! Try carrying out just one selfless act. You'll be amazed by the sense of wellbeing you get.

I suspect I will not be alone in wishing you a very long, healthy and lucky life. I hope you will never experience ill-health or an accident, that you will find a good job, that you will never be made redundant and that any offspring you produce are similarly blessed, so that you never need to rely on the help of others.

Personally, I think we cannot call ourselves civilised if we do not look after the more vulnerable in society. Do you have lessons in citizenship at your school Rhys? If you do, what on earth do you learn?
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Re: Politics in General

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(-5.50,-3.69)
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Dan McColm wrote:(-5.50,-3.69)
Can you spot yourself, Dan?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Long »

On the political compass test, I got:

Economic Left/Right: -2.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Martin Long wrote:On the political compass test, I got:

Economic Left/Right: -2.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.51
Please move down inside the chart.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Right. Let's do this properly.

At Harrow School recently, the debating competition was:

"This House would vote Labour."

I'll be against, and anyone who wants to join me, do. But I put it upon my opponent(s) to commence with a speech for the motion.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Michael Wallace »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:Right. Let's do this properly.

At Harrow School recently, the debating competition was:

"This House would vote Labour."

I'll be against, and anyone who wants to join me, do. But I put it upon my opponent(s) to commence with a speech for the motion.
Will this do?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Michael Wallace wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:Right. Let's do this properly.

At Harrow School recently, the debating competition was:

"This House would vote Labour."

I'll be against, and anyone who wants to join me, do. But I put it upon my opponent(s) to commence with a speech for the motion.
Will this do?
Nope. This is a matter of opinion and one has not put forward any reasons in this debate.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Michael Wallace »

:mrgreen:
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Re: Politics in General

Post by David Williams »

So do you all support the party that is the nearest to your own views? According to this that would be Labour for Rhys and the Greens for everyone else.
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Re: Politics in General

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David Williams wrote:So do you all support the party that is the nearest to your own views? According to this that would be Labour for Rhys and the Greens for everyone else.
That was 2010 - Labour are usually in everyone else's league.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Graeme Cole »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
David Williams wrote:So do you all support the party that is the nearest to your own views? According to this that would be Labour for Rhys and the Greens for everyone else.
That was 2010 - Labour are usually in everyone else's league.
O'rly?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Graeme Cole wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
David Williams wrote:So do you all support the party that is the nearest to your own views? According to this that would be Labour for Rhys and the Greens for everyone else.
That was 2010 - Labour are usually in everyone else's league.
O'rly?
Yes, I was looking at that - the fact is that "New Labour" are uncharacteristically slightly right. If you look at their wikipedia page then the first thing it tells you is that Labour are centre-left.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

We have some of the best prime ministers. Ever.

Baroness Thatcher.
Sir John Major.
Sir Winston Churchill.
David Cameron.

And who did Labour get?

Tony Blair, who killed all of our army in Afghanistan.
Gordon Brown, who's done nothing good in the 28 years he's been in Parliament.
John Smith, who was so boring that he died.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by James Robinson »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:John Smith, who was so boring that he died.
Unless I'm not mistaken, John Smith was never PM.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

James Robinson wrote:Unless I'm not mistaken, John Smith was never PM.
That Labour list is not just PMs.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon O'Neill »

It might be more beneficial for your debating skills if you tried to support a position, any position, that isn't the one you wake up and go to bed gushing over. How about you take the Labour side and I take the Tory side? Okay, here we go.

poor people don't matter because they have no money no jobs how comes all the people in prisons are poor its because theyre bad and mainly poor

You're up.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Jon O'Neill wrote:It might be more beneficial for your debating skills if you tried to support a position, any position, that isn't the one you wake up and go to bed gushing over. How about you take the Labour side and I take the Tory side? Okay, here we go.

poor people don't matter because they have no money no jobs how comes all the people in prisons are poor its because theyre bad and mainly poor

You're up.
Problem is that I'm not formally charged with doing so, and I challenged you first. :P
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:It might be more beneficial for your debating skills if you tried to support a position, any position, that isn't the one you wake up and go to bed gushing over. How about you take the Labour side and I take the Tory side? Okay, here we go.

poor people don't matter because they have no money no jobs how comes all the people in prisons are poor its because theyre bad and mainly poor

You're up.
Problem is that I'm not formally charged with doing so, and I challenged you first. :P
I'm just trying to help you learn to debate!
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:It might be more beneficial for your debating skills if you tried to support a position, any position, that isn't the one you wake up and go to bed gushing over. How about you take the Labour side and I take the Tory side? Okay, here we go.

poor people don't matter because they have no money no jobs how comes all the people in prisons are poor its because theyre bad and mainly poor

You're up.
Problem is that I'm not formally charged with doing so, and I challenged you first. :P
I'm just trying to help you learn to debate!
I'm fine - I had to debate against Footballers are overpaid. I won, with a 74% approx swing.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: I'm fine - I had to debate against Footballers are overpaid. I won, with a 74% approx swing.
Would you agree with that outside of a debate though?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Mark James wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote: I'm fine - I had to debate against Footballers are overpaid. I won, with a 74% approx swing.
Would you agree with that outside of a debate though?
No.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Eoin Monaghan »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mark James wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote: I'm fine - I had to debate against Footballers are overpaid. I won, with a 74% approx swing.
Would you agree with that outside of a debate though?
No.
Do you have the speech? :? We did something similar to this in 2nd year.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Eoin Monaghan wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mark James wrote: Would you agree with that outside of a debate though?
No.
Do you have the speech? :? We did something similar to this in 2nd year.
And which second year would this be? Year 8? The actual one?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Eoin Monaghan »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: And which second year would this be? Year 8? The actual one?
The second year of secondary school.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

My latest debate has even got to the teachers at school :!: :o

Subject: This house would vote for Boris Johnson in the London 2012 Mayoral Elections.

Guess which side people are on?

And we've taken it up a gear with me getting a "Back Boris" oyster card holder and the deputy head and one of the Latin teachers have a "Sack Boris" oyster card holder.

I'm printing a poster that says "Ken's unfare deal" and in some betting shops they are taking bets on how long it will take Ken Livingstone to lie (according to my Dad) :o

And I subliminally campaigned for Boris in Trafalgar Square whilst on a school trip - one bus went past and cheered at me (at which point I waved politician-style)!

My case is this:

Boris Johnson. An amazing politician for some, a joker for others. Yet how can a man that has fixed the problems that Ken Livingstone, the previous mayor of London made?

Firstly, transport. The elephant in the room is the London Underground. In 2003, Geoff Marshall, later a tube world record holder (who has his own website here) said that ""Uncle" Ken got his grubby mitts on the tube...". The words "grubby mitts" tell us that Ken had ruined an important method of transport. One year later, Mr. Marshall said that "The Tube is in need of repair and "Uncle" Ken has done nothing." Ken Livingstone's failure to upgrade the Transport system called RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers) leader Bob Crow to resign from TFL (Transport for London). Ken Livingstone did not bother about upgrading the tube so much that instead of leading TFL to the job, he left it instead to two private companies, Metronet and Tube Lines. Metronet tried to upgrade West Harrow station but after spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on it, all they managed was a ditch. It also meant that one of the entrances to the nearby primary school was closed for two years and punctuality dropped as students had to go the long way round. Under Boris Johnson, he fought relentlessly to regain Tube Lines and TFL acquired it in 2010. Now many Londoners criticise the Jubilee Line for being un-punctual and, and I am not making this up, one Londoner said that "The contestants on X Factor are more in time than this!" The fact of the matter is that Boris fixed the fiasco that was the Jubilee Line by acquiring Tube Lines - signal failures since the formal completion of the upgrade (June 2011) are down by 55% than before the upgrade. Tube Lines wanted TCDC, a speed limiter that was extremely unreliable. TFL decided on ATO - automatic trains. Much money was spent on the upgrade and much money was saved by not having to build new trains. The Jubilee Line has developed a 33% capacity increase, up from the initial estimate of 25%. The Metropolitan line is currently being upgraded. Now, the buses. Some of the younger Londoners would never remember a Route-master bus when Ken Livingstone scrapped them in 2001. He then chose to replace them with, yes, you guessed it, bendy buses. Bendy Buses are so long that they have to have a sign on them saying "WARNING: This bus is X meters long." But Boris Johnson, with the help of TFL and with passenger capacity in mind, decided to effectively remove the back half and place it on top. Et voila, a better solution for everybody. Now many people have been saying that it's been taking too long, but several Lib Dems in the London assembly are holding it back. Nevertheless a new bus for London, combining the old with the new, will be in service in January 2012. Some more transport aspects; Boris Bikes, a huge success that has got people cycling more (For those who don't know, it's like a taxi but you have to cycle it to a docking point and the fare builds up the longer you cycle, but the first half-hour is free). Another amazing transport thing that Boris has done is to remove the Western extension of the Congestion Charge, saving the average Londoner £1 per day - that's £1,461 every four years.

Secondly, crime and other atrocities. Boris Johnson, despite the riots, cut crime by 5%. It just shows what could have been if the riots did not happen. Ken Livingstone, however, rose crime, even when you discount 7/7. To make things even worse, Ken Livingstone actually said "I had no problems with 7/7." [link]
However, for Boris, 5% is not enough and there will be an extra 1,000 police officers on the street by May 2012, the start of which I am already beginning to see. Crime has gone down significantly over here despite a Labour MP.

Thirdly, the Olympics. Although Ken Livingstone has been voted out, Boris has picked up what Ken did (not much) and pushed forwards. He cares so much that he managed to take a London bus and flew it to Beijing specifically for the handover ceremony. For all that Boris Johnson has done, it would be a real shame to not see him hand the flag over to the Mayor of Rio de Janeiro. And as the official logo says, be part of it. Back Boris. You can still see the flag at City Hall.

Lastly, Boris Johnson has managed to make himself more connected with the public by publishing every single thing over the value of £500 that City Hall has spent. In politics, that is not a lot.

Boris Johnson.
Not a joker.

Official Back Boris website: [link]
Official Ken Livingstone website: [link]

Back Boris.

(Now do you believe me that I can debate?)
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Yet how can a man that has fixed the problems that Ken Livingstone, the previous mayor of London made?
This sentence doesn't make sense.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Liam Tiernan »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: I subliminally campaigned for Boris in Trafalgar Square whilst on a school trip
How? Did you creep up behind people and whisper "Back Boris" in their ears so softly they didn't even notice?
Ken Livingstone's failure to upgrade the Transport system called RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers) leader Bob Crow to resign from TFL (Transport for London)
Get your facts straight. Crow resigned because Livingstone urged RMT members to cross picket lines.

called?

Also, I have to commend your choice of expert opinion to back up your arguments: some guy whose only claim to fame was visiting every Tube station in less than a day; "one Londoner" who doesn't know the difference between 'in time' and 'on time'; and your Dad. All in all, a fine display of debating skill.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Lesley Hines »

So, in summation, Boris Johnson invented double-decker buses (and flew one to China to show off about it?), you haven't worked out yet how figures are massaged to show trends the publisher wants, and the current Mayor of London is "pushing forwards" about a major international event due to be kicking off in 8ish months.
Rhys Benjamin wrote:In politics, that is not a lot.
Thanks for the lolz :lol:
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Joseph Krol »

Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.74
Image
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Rhys Benjamin
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Joseph Krol wrote:Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.74
Unlike Thomas, Joseph is slipping into oblivion...

P.S. The link changes after each name so that's why I keep posting it.
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Rhys Benjamin
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Mark James wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:Yet how can a man that has fixed the problems that Ken Livingstone, the previous mayor of London made?
This sentence doesn't make sense.
You're right. I will concede this, but...
Liam Tiernan wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote: I subliminally campaigned for Boris in Trafalgar Square whilst on a school trip
How? Did you creep up behind people and whisper "Back Boris" in their ears so softly they didn't even notice?
No, I was conducting an opinion poll within my school teachers on the trip and pupils. On the back, I had
BORIS JOHNSON FOR MAYOR OF LONDON!
Liam Tiernan wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:Ken Livingstone's failure to upgrade the Transport system called RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers) leader Bob Crow to resign from TFL (Transport for London)
Get your facts straight. Crow resigned because Livingstone urged RMT members to cross picket lines.
You have to look at more than one source. I looked at various unbiased websites as well - this also contributed to one of the reasons but the failure of the Tube Upgrade contributed significantly so in this context I used this reason.
Liam Tiernan wrote:
called?
Called for would mean that Ken called for Bob to resign.
Liam Tiernan wrote:
Also, I have to commend your choice of expert opinion to back up your arguments: some guy whose only claim to fame was visiting every Tube station in less than a day; "one Londoner" who doesn't know the difference between 'in time' and 'on time'; and your Dad. All in all, a fine display of debating skill.
These are the only ones I mentioned. Who would you trust more, a tube geek or an ordinary commuter. "One Londoner" put this into this context but I can think of other metaphors if you want me to...

My Dad? Better than someone I don't know.
Lesley Hines wrote:So, in summation, Boris Johnson invented double-decker buses (and flew one to China to show off about it?), you haven't worked out yet how figures are massaged to show trends the publisher wants, and the current Mayor of London is "pushing forwards" about a major international event due to be kicking off in 8ish months.
I never said that Boris Johnson invented double deckers. He realised that a bendy bus is just effectively two single deckers nose to tail. The clog up the roads and they are being replaced with double deckers. Bendy Buses also encourage fare evading.
Lesley Hines wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:In politics, that is not a lot.
Thanks for the lolz :lol:
[/quote]

Well I have a smiley for you:
:P
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Liam Tiernan »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Liam Tiernan wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote: I subliminally campaigned for Boris in Trafalgar Square whilst on a school trip
How? Did you creep up behind people and whisper "Back Boris" in their ears so softly they didn't even notice?
No, I was conducting an opinion poll within my school teachers on the trip and pupils. On the back, I had
BORIS JOHNSON FOR MAYOR OF LONDON!
Ehrm, no, Rhys. That's called blatant advertising, which is the polar opposite of subliminal advertising (look it up on any of your unbiased websites). I'd suggest that in future you don't use any long words until you learn what they mean. Also, aren't opinion polls meant to be conducted in an unbiased manner?
Liam Tiernan wrote:

called?


Called for would mean that Ken called for Bob to resign.
So your original sentence would then read:
Ken Livingstone's failure to upgrade the Transport system called for RMT leader Bob Crow to resign from TFL . That makes even less sense.
Who would you trust more, a tube geek or an ordinary commuter. "One Londoner" put this into this context but I can think of other metaphors if you want me to...
I don't think you understand the word 'metaphor' either.
I never said that Boris Johnson invented double deckers. He realised that a bendy bus is just effectively two single deckers nose to tail.
But with half the number of drivers, which is the whole point of bendy buses, reduction of labour costs. Don't forget that a bendy bus can also carry 30+ more people than the new double-deckers.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Liam Tiernan wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Liam Tiernan wrote: How? Did you creep up behind people and whisper "Back Boris" in their ears so softly they didn't even notice?
No, I was conducting an opinion poll within my school teachers on the trip and pupils. On the back, I had
BORIS JOHNSON FOR MAYOR OF LONDON!
Ehrm, no, Rhys. That's called blatant advertising, which is the polar opposite of subliminal advertising (look it up on any of your unbiased websites). I'd suggest that in future you don't use any long words until you learn what they mean. Also, aren't opinion polls meant to be conducted in an unbiased manner?
No, I wasn't shouting it out, I just had it on the back. And I do - "brownie points" from my english teacher for using "inconsequential". Yes, and yes, I did. I had a tally and asked "Who would you vote for as London Mayor, Boris Johnson (Conservative Party), Ken Livingstone (Labour Party), Brian Paddick (Liberal Democrats) or another party?
Liam Tiernan wrote:
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Liam Tiernan wrote:
called?

Called for would mean that Ken called for Bob to resign.
So your original sentence would then read:
Ken Livingstone's failure to upgrade the Transport system called for RMT leader Bob Crow to resign from TFL . That makes even less sense.
You try it then.
Who would you trust more, a tube geek or an ordinary commuter. "One Londoner" put this into this context but I can think of other metaphors if you want me to...
I don't think you understand the word 'metaphor' either.
Simile, whatever. You make one up then.
I never said that Boris Johnson invented double deckers. He realised that a bendy bus is just effectively two single deckers nose to tail.
But with half the number of drivers, which is the whole point of bendy buses, reduction of labour costs. Don't forget that a bendy bus can also carry 30+ more people than the new double-deckers.
Yeah, double deckers are the same as bendy buses, except they are better as they are shorter and therefore do not clog up the roads and 30 is a small percentage of the total capacity.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Karen Pearson »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
No, I was conducting an opinion poll within my school teachers on the trip and pupils. On the back, I had
BORIS JOHNSON FOR MAYOR OF LONDON!
So you were conducting a survey and blatantly contravening the Market Research Society Code of Conduct which expressly forbids any kind of promotion in market research. We professional market researchers have even invented a word for it; sugging, which is short for 'Selling Under the Guise (of market research)'.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Michael Wallace »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:30 is a small percentage of the total capacity.
What are the actual capacity numbers? A very quick google suggests it's 149 for a bendy and 87 for one of Boris's new Routemasters, but I've not been to every Tube station so I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers weren't right.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Liam Tiernan »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:No, I wasn't shouting it out, I just had it on the back. And I do - "brownie points" from my english teacher for using "inconsequential". Yes, and yes, I did. I had a tally and asked "Who would you vote for as London Mayor, Boris Johnson (Conservative Party), Ken Livingstone (Labour Party), Brian Paddick (Liberal Democrats) or another party?
So much for doing research then, Rhys. You still haven't grasped the fact that 'subliminal' means " below the level of conscious perception". A poster or banner is anything but subliminal. And "on the back" of what, exactly? The bus? The book you were writing your "survey" results in? Shaved onto the back of your head?
You try it then.
"Ken Livingstone's failure to upgrade the Transport system led RMT leader Bob Crow to resign from TFL ."
Who would you trust more, a tube geek or an ordinary commuter. "One Londoner" put this into this context but I can think of other metaphors if you want me to...

I don't think you understand the word 'metaphor' either.

Simile, whatever. You make one up then.
The word you were looking for here is "example". Again, trying to look clever by using more exotic words tends to backfire badly when you don't use them properly.
Yeah, double deckers are the same as bendy buses, except they are better as they are shorter and therefore do not clog up the roads and 30 is a small percentage of the total capacity.
OK, research time again:
"In terms of road surface used per passenger, there is little difference between double decker buses (which stack passengers vertically on two floors) and articulated buses - 11.8 cm road surface length per Routemaster passenger against 12.8 cm per articulated bus passenger: 8.7% more."

And: "A study conducted in September 2008 by London TravelWatch found that replacing articulated vehicles on routes 38, 507, and 521, whilst maintaining overall route capacity, would cost an additional £12.6m per annum, due to the additional vehicles necessitated."

So, more buses, more congestion, more expense. And that's just on three routes. Apply that citywide and tell me again what exactly Boris has achieved?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Andy Wilson »

Saw this and thought of you Rhys.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Jennifer Steadman wrote:Children debating without researching. Sigh.
Rhys Benjamin wrote:We should aspire to share the views of great political leaders.
Not when they screw up the lives of millions of people. Do you aspire to be like Hitler or Stalin? Exactly. To use your reasoning from further down your post, there's a reason why so many people refuse on principle to vote Conservative, and that reason is Mrs Thatcher's legacy - a legacy of unemployment, unfair taxes and rising poverty. They may have gleaned the most votes at the General Election, but when you consider how untenable the Labour government's position had become amid the recession (and Gordon Brown's unpopularity), they should've had a landslide majority. Easily. Mrs Thatcher is at least partly responsible for them not achieving that.
Woah, Woah, Woah, Mrs. Thatcher did NOT cause a rise in unemployment. Maybe towards the end, but explain how she won 3 elections?
Rhys, I already linked you to statistics on UK unemployment in the relevant period. Maybe you should actually read such information before you continue spouting this baseless rubbish.

I'll remind you, the only time in Thatcher's time as PM that unemployment fell was "towards the end". Here's a pretty picture:

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meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Craig Beevers »

Unemployment was high under Thatcher. Doesn't automatically follow she caused it (or didn't cause it), it's more complicated than that.

As for "there's a reason why so many people refuse on principle to vote Conservative" - the reason is stupidity. Belief in this hysteria Labour amongst others repeatedly whip up that Conservatives are somehow evil and that they delight in taxing people and cutting benefits. It's patently absurd yet millions actually buy into it.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Craig Beevers wrote: the reason is stupidity.
Sadly covers a large portion of people's opinions and reasons for voting as far as I can tell. I just wish people would think, and try to understand the background to a subject before spouting opinions.
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