Politics in General

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Fred Mumford
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Fred Mumford » Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:25 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:12 pm
It told my mother she should retrain as a vet, and she doesn't even like animals.
In fairness I can think of no more heartbreaking job for someone who likes animals.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Noel Mc » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:28 am

So, what do we think about this whole extension (or lack thereof) of Free School Meals over the holidays?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:59 pm

I don't really get the argument for their extension as a covid measure. With schools now back to normal, why shouldn't FSMs be back to normal? If you want them extended over the holidays forever, that's a separate debate.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Noel Mc » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:31 pm

I think, in terms of it being a Covid measure, it's probably because a lot of people are struggling (more than normal) financially in the current climate. Similar to financial aid being given to businesses etc. which are struggling.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:24 pm

Time for a universal basic imcome...

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Long » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:51 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:59 pm
I don't really get the argument for their extension as a covid measure. With schools now back to normal, why shouldn't FSMs be back to normal? If you want them extended over the holidays forever, that's a separate debate.
Don't you think that voting against the school meals is a political own goal for the Tories?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Fiona T » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:43 pm

On the face of it, the government providing extra support to ensure that kids get a decent meal during a pandemic seems like a good idea. Wales and Scotland seem to think it is.

But whatever your views, it's turned into a(nother) PR disaster for the Tories. For the relatively small cost, it should have been a JFDI.
8-) <-2m-> 8-)

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:20 pm

Fiona T wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:43 pm
it's turned into a(nother) PR disaster for the Tories.
Yep. See also: internal market bill. Not that controversial when you look at it in detail.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Long » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:38 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:20 pm
Fiona T wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:43 pm
it's turned into a(nother) PR disaster for the Tories.
Yep. See also: internal market bill. Not that controversial when you look at it in detail.
Putting personal opinions aside, I think the free meals will turn out to be much more of a disaster for the Tories than the internal market bill. Judging from what I've seen, it will lose them a lot of votes especially in the Tory gain seats in the North like my constituency.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:41 pm

Martin Long wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:38 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:20 pm
Fiona T wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:43 pm
it's turned into a(nother) PR disaster for the Tories.
Yep. See also: internal market bill. Not that controversial when you look at it in detail.
Putting personal opinions aside, I think the free meals will turn out to be much more of a disaster for the Tories than the internal market bill. Judging from what I've seen, it will lose them a lot of votes especially in the Tory gain seats in the North like my constituency.
On the other hand, Martin, we are 4 years away from the next election and this isn't (unlike Clegg) actively breaking a promise they made.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Callum Todd » Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:47 am

Fiona T wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:43 pm
On the face of it, the government providing extra support to ensure that kids get a decent meal during a pandemic seems like a good idea. Wales and Scotland seem to think it is.

But whatever your views, it's turned into a(nother) PR disaster for the Tories. For the relatively small cost, it should have been a JFDI.
Perhaps my favourite of Fiona's acronyms so far :)
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:20 pm
Fiona T wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:43 pm
it's turned into a(nother) PR disaster for the Tories.
Yep. See also: internal market bill. Not that controversial when you look at it in detail.
Saving for posterity for the next time someone accuses Rhys of not acknowledging when 'his side' have made a mistake.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:38 pm

Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Labour Party because of his reaction to the anti-Semitism report.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:24 am

So do you reckon Starmer suspended Corbyn to distract from the fact he hit a cyclist with his car or do you reckon he intentionally hit the cyclist for fun knowing it wouldn't get much attention because he was suspending Corbyn?

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:03 am

Mark James wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:24 am
So do you reckon Starmer suspended Corbyn to distract from the fact he hit a cyclist with his car or do you reckon he intentionally hit the cyclist for fun knowing it wouldn't get much attention because he was suspending Corbyn?
The latter.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Callum Todd » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:16 pm

Inb4 the cyclist was Jezza.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:32 pm

Looking at the odds right now it's looking about 80/20 in favour of Biden over Trump in the US election. However, the winner will not be the leader of the free world, because that's not a thing.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:51 pm

Romney 2024, anyone?
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:38 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:51 pm
Romney 2024, anyone?
Eh no.
https://mobile.twitter.com/therecount/s ... 6118041602

Conservatism is a death cult.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:18 pm

Apparently Boris has spoken out against devolution.

I have written about this at University, but also that I wouldn't want to be the politician who speaks out against it.

I love Boris.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:28 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:18 pm
Apparently Boris has spoken out against devolution.

I have written about this at University, but also that I wouldn't want to be the politician who speaks out against it.

I love Boris.
Apparently so. But:
A Downing Street source: "The PM has always supported devolution, but Tony Blair failed to foresee the rise of separatists in Scotland."Devolution is great - but not when it's used by separatists and nationalists to break up the UK."
Is this enough to love Boris Johnson? That's the question here.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:41 pm

On a more serious note, I'm not sure what there is to love about Johnson unless you buy his "loveable buffoon" persona, but surely that wore thin years ago. He has no integrity as a politician whatsoever. He's out of his depth and basically has no principles, doing merely what he thinks is needed to further his career.

Just listen to Owen Jones here.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:29 pm

I’d rather eat my own shit than listen to Owen Jones.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:26 am

Anyway, Jeremy Corbyn is back in the Labour Party but there are people who still don't want him to get the party whip back. As I understand it, Corbyn was suspended for the comments he made in the video embedded on this page where he talked about exaggeration. But if you listen to what he said about the 30% and 0.3%, is what he said so bad? I think lots of people do exaggerate the problem of anti-Semitism in the Labour party. That's not to say it doesn't exist (although I shouldn't have to make this clarification). Sometimes I think it's like 1984.

Rachel Riley has been talking about it.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:41 am

Keir Starmer has just said that Corbyn won't be returning as a Labour MP. But anyway, to summarise the issue, from that article:
Sir Keir Starmer said those who think the issue had been "exaggerated" should "be nowhere near the Labour Party".

But later, Mr Corbyn released a statement, saying the scale of anti-Semitism had been "dramatically overstated" by his opponents, and he was suspended by the party.
So it's impossible for anyone to exaggerate the issue? If a serial killer kills five people, and someone says they've killed ten people, it's an exaggeration. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that because something is a serious issue, it can't be exaggerated.

Some people have such simplistic thinking when it comes to emotive issues, and from there it can easily become a witch hunt. I don't know if Starmer's thinking really is that simplistic but he's just doing the things he feels he needs to for an easy life because of other people's simplistic thinking.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:27 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:41 am
Keir Starmer has just said that Corbyn won't be returning as a Labour MP. But anyway, to summarise the issue, from that article:
Sir Keir Starmer said those who think the issue had been "exaggerated" should "be nowhere near the Labour Party".

But later, Mr Corbyn released a statement, saying the scale of anti-Semitism had been "dramatically overstated" by his opponents, and he was suspended by the party.
So it's impossible for anyone to exaggerate the issue? If a serial killer kills five people, and someone says they've killed ten people, it's an exaggeration. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that because something is a serious issue, it can't be exaggerated.

Some people have such simplistic thinking when it comes to emotive issues, and from there it can easily become a witch hunt. I don't know if Starmer's thinking really is that simplistic but he's just doing the things he feels he needs to for an easy life because of other people's simplistic thinking.
I still believe that people are confusing anti semitism with anti zionism
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Peter Mabey » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:06 pm

Marc Meakin wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:27 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:41 am
Keir Starmer has just said that Corbyn won't be returning as a Labour MP. But anyway, to summarise the issue, from that article:
Sir Keir Starmer said those who think the issue had been "exaggerated" should "be nowhere near the Labour Party".

But later, Mr Corbyn released a statement, saying the scale of anti-Semitism had been "dramatically overstated" by his opponents, and he was suspended by the party.
So it's impossible for anyone to exaggerate the issue? If a serial killer kills five people, and someone says they've killed ten people, it's an exaggeration. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that because something is a serious issue, it can't be exaggerated.

Some people have such simplistic thinking when it comes to emotive issues, and from there it can easily become a witch hunt. I don't know if Starmer's thinking really is that simplistic but he's just doing the things he feels he needs to for an easy life because of other people's simplistic thinking.
I still believe that people are confusing anti semitism with anti zionism
Yes - some zionists are doing this deliberately. (and technically Palestinians are Semites, too!)

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:04 pm

The point is that saying it's exaggerated, it's overdramatised, it's mood music, etc., amounts to a denial of the issue given how widespread things had become so as to drive out various Jewish Labour MPs and the nonsense hurled at Rachel et al.

Edit: I do wonder if it's a case of defending Corbyn purely because he's a hard left socialist, when you can have a hard left socialist leader who isn't sympathetic to antisemites.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:09 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:04 pm
The point is that saying it's exaggerated, it's overdramatised, it's mood music, etc., amounts to a denial of the issue given how widespread things had become so as to drive out various Jewish Labour MPs and the nonsense hurled at Rachel et al.

Edit: I do wonder if it's a case of defending Corbyn purely because he's a hard left socialist, when you can have a hard left socialist leader who isn't sympathetic to antisemites.
A true socialist government has not been in power for more than 40 years and its a sad fact that socialism as a political force in the ahem, caring, sharing 21st century England is as dead as a dodo.
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:15 pm

Peter Mabey wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:06 pm
(and technically Palestinians are Semites, too!)
And that's why "anti-Semitism" isn't really a useful term. Well, it is useful for some people because they use the word instead of "racism" and can therefore sneak in extra meaning to it (including criticism of Israel etc.).
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:04 pm
The point is that saying it's exaggerated, it's overdramatised, it's mood music, etc., amounts to a denial of the issue given how widespread things had become so as to drive out various Jewish Labour MPs and the nonsense hurled at Rachel et al.
I don't think so. Some aspects can be exaggerated and it's fair to say so without being accused of belittling the whole thing. As it happens I don't think Corbyn played the PR game very well over this whole issue, but he doesn't deserve to be demonised for that.
Edit: I do wonder if it's a case of defending Corbyn purely because he's a hard left socialist, when you can have a hard left socialist leader who isn't sympathetic to antisemites.
I'm not even a Corbyn fan but I think he has been treated unfairly, and not just in this case. When he first became Labour leader, many of the other Labour MPs tried to oust him, really before he'd had a chance to even do anything, but they failed spectacularly and this did severe damage to the reputation of the party. In the 2017 election, Labour weren't actually that far off being able to cobble together some sort of coalition, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they would have been able to do so if not for the wilful destruction of the party by the likes of Angela Eagle. Of course, they might have considered him a bad leader, but Boris Johnson is also a bad leader, and if the party sticks together and backs their voted-for leader they're much more likely to get results. I can't see that Corbyn was so terrible that they couldn't have just shut up until at least after the 2017 election.

Edit - And it's not just Corbyn. Remember Ed Miliband wasn't fit to be Prime Minister because his dad was said to be a Communist and he was once photographed eating a bacon sandwich.

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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:35 pm

Pretty awful human being Priti Patel has been found to be bullying, but Boris Johnson just tries to make it go away.

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