Politics in General

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Gavin Chipper
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:15 pm

Peter Mabey wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:55 pm
That was why Clegg made the disastrous mistake of thinking he could get a referendum on voting reform by joining the coalition, even though it meant going back on the manifesto commitment to oppose university fees, which destroyed the credibility of the party. Of course, although he got the referendum, the big parties got together to ensure that the first-past-the-post system (which is heavily to their advantage) was not going to be replaced, Consequently when in coalition we did succeed in tempering many of the Tory proposals we were given no credit for our success.
"we"? You are a member of the Lib Dems? :o The austerity the coalition government imposed on the country was still pretty bad, and while it might have been worse under a purely Tory government, there wasn't really a comparison point, because we didn't get to see the alternate universe.

The Lib Dems made a really bad mistake agreeing to a referendum on the miserable little compromise that was AV anyway. It should have been PR or no coalition.
Marc Meakin wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:15 pm
Voting reforms would see around fifty Brexit Party MPs.
Just let that sink in for a bit before you realise it's not the answer.
Not that I have a scooby doo what is 😀
I still think PR is preferable to what we have now. And we'd also have a decent number of Greens etc. I don't think it would be a problem having a more representative parliament even if there would be a few more nutters that got in. (Lots of the MPs in mainstream parties are actually nutters anyway but they've learnt how not to come across as a nutter on TV.)

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JimBentley
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Re: Politics in General

Post by JimBentley » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:39 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:15 pm
I still think PR is preferable to what we have now. And we'd also have a decent number of Greens etc. I don't think it would be a problem having a more representative parliament even if there would be a few more nutters that got in. (Lots of the MPs in mainstream parties are actually nutters anyway but they've learnt how not to come across as a nutter on TV.)
I can't agree more with this. We've been over this ground before (multiple times, probably) but FPTP is the stupidest possible system. Sure, proportional representation might deliver some far-right weirdos but as Gavin says, we've already got quite a few of them as elected Conservative members anyway. The whole Brexit shit has really made a few Tories go into full-on nutjob mode.

No voting system will ever be perfect but PR is about as good as it can get, isn't it? I absolutely cannot stand UKIP or the Brexit Party, I must make that clear. But if those parties get, say, 15-20% of the collective vote at the next election and no seats (or single figures at most, they have fairly few seats in which they can win), that's just gives them another thing to bang on about. PR would give them representation but no power, which is ideal.

Gavin Chipper
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:25 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:15 pm

I still think PR is preferable to what we have now. And we'd also have a decent number of Greens etc.
However, you have to watch out for nonsense like this.

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:08 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:25 am
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:15 pm

I still think PR is preferable to what we have now. And we'd also have a decent number of Greens etc.
However, you have to watch out for nonsense like this.
I still think Caroline Lucas' proposed cabinet is preferable to what we have now.

Gavin Chipper
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Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:21 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:08 am
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:25 am
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:15 pm

I still think PR is preferable to what we have now. And we'd also have a decent number of Greens etc.
However, you have to watch out for nonsense like this.
I still think Caroline Lucas' proposed cabinet is preferable to what we have now.
It would be hard not to be.

But on further reflection, it's not just nonsense - it's unacceptable. It's just sexism. It doesn't matter whether it's against males or females. If some male politician had suggested an all-male cabinet it would probably escalate to a resignation pretty quickly.

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