What would you have done?

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:32 pm

You are moments away from going into a penalty shoot out for a place in the semi-finals of the World Cup. In the dying seconds the football goes past your goalkeeper and defender and is heading for a goal. You will be knocked out of the World Cup if this ball goes past you.

What would you have done?

Eoin Monaghan · Post by **Eoin Monaghan** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:34 pm

This puts it all in prospective. I know what you mean Ryan. He has saved his team, and they could (but probably won't) win the whole thing. Would you rather be a cheat? Or a saviour?

I think Thierry Henry has answered that for us.

I would have tried to head it out. You probably won't stop it, but at least you tried and aren't a cheat. This makes Henry's handball look like Wimbledon in comparison to the World Cup.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:35 pm

For the record, I don't think any thinking is involved at all. Everything so happens, for the totally honest players it will be a reflex action to make sure your hands don't go near it, for the slightly greasy players it will be a reflex action to handball it, even if you honestly wouldn't choose to do so if time was paused for you to make the decision. Crazy time for sure. It looked like Suarez was (at least temporarily) pretty upset with what he'd done.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:36 pm

The overwhelming view is gonna be "cheating bastard" and he should never have done it at all costs. But this was an impulsive split second decision and if I was that player I would have done the same (please Jon don't lynch me). The thing is though, from the replay he could have just headed the ball clear, couldn't he?

Oliver Garner · Post by **Oliver Garner** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:38 pm

Well stopping the ball going in the goal is probably Suarez's natural reaction, so I would say my response doesn't fit into either category; thus my response is 'Other'.

Eoin Monaghan · Post by **Eoin Monaghan** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:40 pm

Congratulations must go to the referee for spotting it, my initial instinct was "Jaysus, how'd he not score." And then "That guy is a legend." Shortly followed by a foul-mouthed tirade.* And when Gyan missed, I was like a kid whose candy had been taken.

*This didn't happen. I know better. It's only a game.

Matt Morrison · Post by **Matt Morrison** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:40 pm

Ryan Taylor wrote:The overwhelming view is gonna be "cheating bastard" and he should never have done it at all costs. But this was an impulsive split second decision and if I was that player I would have done the same (please Jon don't lynch me). The thing is though, from the replay he could have just headed the ball clear, couldn't he?

It was definitely clear he could have headed it. But he would have had to have gotten to it first, which was no guarantee - handling it was.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:41 pm

Yes, but my question is "what would you have done?" and this means in that situation. I don't think anybody in hindsight and with more than a second to think about it would choose to cheat and handball it but Suarez is now a shamed player for denying Ghana and Africa a place in the semi finals. I do feel a bit sorry for him.

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:41 pm

Eoin Monaghan · Post by **Eoin Monaghan** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:42 pm

Now the questions; what if the referee hadn't given the penalty? What if Suarez scored the winning penalty?

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:44 pm

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Congratulations must go to the referee for spotting it, my initial instinct was "Jaysus, how'd he not score." And then "That guy is a legend." Shortly followed by a foul-mouthed tirade.* And when Gyan missed, I was like a kid whose candy had been taken.

*This didn't happen. I know better. It's only a game.

Yeah I also wondered how it had not gone in but then presumed there was a handball in there somewhere. I think it was the linesman who spotted it.

Eoin Monaghan · Post by **Eoin Monaghan** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:44 pm

There should a fourth option here.

Killed Suarez

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:46 pm

Ryan Taylor wrote:Yes, but my question is "what would you have done?" and this means in that situation. I don't think anybody in hindsight and with more than a second to think about it would choose to cheat and handball it

Tbh, you're expecting a lot of people to try and genuinely work out how they would react in such an extreme situation.

(heh, that's cool - I mean of people, you are expecting a lot, rather than you are expecting many people)

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:38 pm

Ryan Taylor wrote:The overwhelming view is gonna be "cheating bastard" and he should never have done it at all costs. But this was an impulsive split second decision and if I was that player I would have done the same (please Jon don't lynch me). The thing is though, from the replay he could have just headed the ball clear, couldn't he?

Haha, no it's fine! I reckon it's a calculated risk though, even if it does happen in a split second. I don't believe for a moment that Suarez would have done the same thing in the opening minute of the match.

I did actually some proper stats-y sort of research on this, calculating which minute it becomes advantageous to commit the pro foul and take the red card for your team if you believe you're stopping a clear goal. The parameters were something like the current score, the probability of the chance being scored, and whether it was in or outside the box. I obviously can't remember the calculations though. Interesting though.

Also, it's funny how you're calling him a cheat and a disgraced player here, that hadn't really registered like that with me. He got the immediate punishment, which lets him off the hook to a large degree I reckon. Maradona and Henry got the cheat tag because they got away with it.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:09 am

Jon Corby wrote: Also, it's funny how you're calling him a cheat and a disgraced player here, that hadn't really registered like that with me. He got the immediate punishment, which lets him off the hook to a large degree I reckon. Maradona and Henry got the cheat tag because they got away with it.

No I wasn't calling him it, I was saying that is what majority of the audience will think, apart from Uruguay. If it was an Englishman we would probably be knighting him.

David Roe · Post by **David Roe** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:13 am

More or less the same thing happen in the last minute of the Island Games women's final in 2001. It was 4-4 in the last minute, the Faroe Islands player handled on the line, the Aland player missed the penalty, and Faroes won 5-4 in extra time. Am I the only person on this forum who saw it? (Yes, I thought I might be.)

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:15 am

You wouldn't catch Barney putting his hand in front of the board just as Phil Taylor is about to beat him with a 170 outshot to win the world's best darts prize (or whatever shit it is).

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:16 am

David Roe wrote:More or less the same thing happen in the last minute of the Island Games women's final in 2001. It was 4-4 in the last minute, the Faroe Islands player handled on the line, the Aland player missed the penalty, and Faroes won 5-4 in extra time. Am I the only person on this forum who saw it? (Yes, I thought I might be.)

Yes, I think that's a safe bet!

How is it cheating any more than hacking down a player clean through on goal anyway? Would you be vilifying him for a last-ditch tackle he had no chance of making?

Andy Wilson · Post by **Andy Wilson** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:52 am

Fair point Jon. I voted other, I reckon he could have headed it.

James Doohan · Post by **James Doohan** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:32 am

Jon Corby wrote:
David Roe wrote:More or less the same thing happen in the last minute of the Island Games women's final in 2001. It was 4-4 in the last minute, the Faroe Islands player handled on the line, the Aland player missed the penalty, and Faroes won 5-4 in extra time. Am I the only person on this forum who saw it? (Yes, I thought I might be.)
Yes, I think that's a safe bet!

How is it cheating any more than hacking down a player clean through on goal anyway? Would you be vilifying him for a last-ditch tackle he had no chance of making?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrFlDpQudY

IIRC, Solskjaer was lauded for taking one for the team at the time by MOTD, Sky Sports etc.

David O'Donnell · Post by **David O'Donnell** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:38 am

I remember that Vidic, on his début for Man U, hacked downed a player (Vidic was last man back) in the dying minutes after the player had just got past him. Automatic red card, Vidic walks off smirking, gets a hearty handshake from Fergie and the rest of the team.

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:26 pm

Jon Corby wrote:I did actually READ some proper stats-y sort of research on this, calculating which minute it becomes advantageous to commit the pro foul and take the red card for your team if you believe you're stopping a clear goal. The parameters were something like the current score, the probability of the chance being scored, and whether it was in or outside the box. I obviously can't remember the calculations though. Interesting though.

Oops, missed an important word out of this post the first time around which changes it quite a bit! As any calculations I'd have done would have likely been bullshit.

Charlie Reams · Post by **Charlie Reams** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:31 pm

Jon Corby wrote:the probability of the chance being scored

That's a pretty ridiculous parameter to require, isnt it?

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:45 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:the probability of the chance being scored
That's a pretty ridiculous parameter to require, isnt it?

Is it? I dunno, I'd need to know what Dmitry thought before I agreed. Anyway, that's not really important - the point is that I read something once.

Matthew Green · Post by **Matthew Green** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:07 pm

Can anyone answer this question for me:

Why was everyone supporting Ghana?

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:10 pm

Matthew Green wrote:Why was everyone supporting Ghana?

I was initially supporting Ghana because they were my team in the Apterous World Cup, but then they were the underdogs instead.

Also racism.

Jon O'Neill · Post by **Jon O'Neill** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:34 pm

Cos of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWdGjcaLILU

Ben Hunter · Post by **Ben Hunter** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:30 pm

Matthew Green wrote:Can anyone answer this question for me:

Why was everyone supporting Ghana?

Cos of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVomN8jlN8w

And because we're all patronising racists.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:38 pm

james doohan wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:
David Roe wrote:More or less the same thing happen in the last minute of the Island Games women's final in 2001. It was 4-4 in the last minute, the Faroe Islands player handled on the line, the Aland player missed the penalty, and Faroes won 5-4 in extra time. Am I the only person on this forum who saw it? (Yes, I thought I might be.)
Yes, I think that's a safe bet!

How is it cheating any more than hacking down a player clean through on goal anyway? Would you be vilifying him for a last-ditch tackle he had no chance of making?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrFlDpQudY

IIRC, Solskjaer was lauded for taking one for the team at the time by MOTD, Sky Sports etc.

I find it weird that by comparison in F1 Nelson Piquet Jnr was basically labelled the biggest cheat ever and is unlikely to drive in F1 again after he engineered a crash (involving just himself) in order to help his team-mate win.

George F. Jenkins · Post by **George F. Jenkins** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:26 pm

David O'Donnell wrote:I remember that Vidic, on his début for Man U, hacked downed a player (Vidic was last man back) in the dying minutes after the player had just got past him. Automatic red card, Vidic walks off smirking, gets a hearty handshake from Fergie and the rest of the team.

Many years ago, I remember a football Manager stating on television, that if the opposing team scored a goal which could have been prevented by a foul, he would have given his offending player hell after the match. Since then, I have known that most fouls are deliberate. The opinions expressed here about unthinking spur of the moment fouls are nonsense. These are professional footballers who need to win, not little boys kicking a ball in the street. Alf Ramsey called the Argentine players animals, because they did their best to cripple the English team. It is all part of the game.

John Bosley · Post by **John Bosley** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:24 am

I always thought that in certain circumstances the referee can actually award a goal even though the ball has not gone in if it would have been a certain goal stopped by a deliberate foul. That would be the fairest.

Lesley Hines · Post by **Lesley Hines** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:52 am

Don't think so mate. I know I'm a bird, and therefore know diddly mcsquat about football (proved by having jubblies and lack of Y chromosome) but the only way to score is if all of the ball crosses all of the line when kicked by someone who wasn't offside. Unless you're Geoff Hurst, or come to that, Frank Lampard.

If you need the offside rule explaining too let me know (Kirk).

Michael Wallace · Post by **Michael Wallace** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:17 am

Lesley Hines wrote:Don't think so mate. I know I'm a bird, and therefore know diddly mcsquat about football (proved by having jubblies and lack of Y chromosome) but the only way to score is if all of the ball crosses all of the line when kicked by someone who wasn't offside. Unless you're Geoff Hurst, or come to that, Frank Lampard.

Yeah. I remember a 'You Are the Ref' where the ball was stopped by the keeper's water bottle, and play had to be restarted with an indirect free kick (I think... certainly wasn't a case of the ref could just award a goal).

Jon Corby · Post by **Jon Corby** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:28 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:Yeah. I remember a 'You Are the Ref' where the ball was stopped by the keeper's water bottle, and play had to be restarted with an indirect free kick (I think... certainly wasn't a case of the ref could just award a goal).

(c) Jim Beglin's Hairy Knees on forum.football365.com

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:11 pm

Is that Jeff Stelling in the last picture 3?

John Bosley · Post by **John Bosley** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:48 am

John Bosley wrote:I always thought that in certain circumstances the referee can actually award a goal even though the ball has not gone in if it would have been a certain goal stopped by a deliberate foul. That would be the fairest.

Well it must be in hockey then!!

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:46 am

John Bosley wrote:
John Bosley wrote:I always thought that in certain circumstances the referee can actually award a goal even though the ball has not gone in if it would have been a certain goal stopped by a deliberate foul. That would be the fairest.

Well it must be in hockey then!!

Robert Baxter · Post by **Robert Baxter** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:38 pm

Have a go.

Ryan Taylor · Post by **Ryan Taylor** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:59 pm

Ryan Taylor wrote:
John Bosley wrote:
John Bosley wrote:I always thought that in certain circumstances the referee can actually award a goal even though the ball has not gone in if it would have been a certain goal stopped by a deliberate foul. That would be the fairest.

Well it must be in hockey then!!

I forgot I had posted this picture then tried to remember why I had before realising - "bullhockey". I'm not very compatible with myself.