Formula 1 thread

[Josh Overhill]

Here's hoping there are a number of Formula 1 fans on here!

The 2010 season promises to be one of the most eagerly anticipated and exciting seasons in history, with 4 new teams, the return on of Schumacher, Button and Hamilton team-mates at McLaren, Alonso at Ferrari, the refuelling ban etc.

What are you thoughts on the above? Who do you think will lift the 2010 crown come November?

[James Robinson]

Formula 1 has definitely been impressive in the last 3-4 years.

It's nice to see some Britons doing well in the Championship as well.

I personally think Hamilton will win this season, with Alonso 2nd and Button 3rd.

[Gavin Chipper]

It comes down to four possibilities - Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.

[Josh Overhill]

Button has no chance of retaining his crown, McLaren will build their car to suit Hamilton, and despite being being the champion and having number 1 on his car Button will find himself playing second fiddle throughout the season.

I'm also sceptical about Schumacher's chances. I don't think Mercedes (formerly Brawn) will be the quickest this season, and Schumacher will find a lot has changed since he left, even though he's only been gone for 3 years, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is outpaced by Rosberg regularly. But as has been the case in the past, it could be down to how good the car is.

I personally think it will be between Hamilton and Alonso for the championship

[Ian Dent]

I am a big fan at the moment.

Robert Kubica is my tip for the title.

[Steve Durney]

Looks set to be a very exciting season. As usual it will depend primarily on how good the cars are as to who will be fighting for the title. This time last year everyone was predicting Lewis would win it and Jensen would be nowhere! As the specs haven't changed as radically as last year then i'd expect McLaren and Red Bull to dominate, with LH, JB and Vettel being the main contenders. Unless Ferrari make a big jump I don't think they'll be strong enough at the start to be contenders. But who knows?!

[Gavin Chipper]

Looks set to be a very exciting season. As usual it will depend primarily on how good the cars are as to who will be fighting for the title. This time last year everyone was predicting Lewis would win it and Jensen would be nowhere! As the specs haven't changed as radically as last year then i'd expect McLaren and Red Bull to dominate, with LH, JB and Vettel being the main contenders. Unless Ferrari make a big jump I don't think they'll be strong enough at the start to be contenders. But who knows?!

Well, McLaren made a pretty big jump last year during the season, so if that's possible then it should be more so when building a new car. Also Ferrari were becoming more competitive (e.g. winning at Spa) but I think stopped development earlier than most of the others to concentrate on next year's (this year's) car. I also think Brawn concentrated on 2010 earlier than some other teams. While they might not have had the budget of the others, they've now got the might of Mercedes so they should be in shape before the new season.

Ian, I have my doubts about Kubica winning. Renault (who have sold most of their team now anyway) have been struggling for a while and I don't see a big jump to match the others and I don't think Kubica is as good as my "big four" from my other post (depending on Schumacher's ability to come back in and be on the pace of course).

[Martin Smith]

I think it'll be between Hamilton and Alonso, with Schumacher, Button, Vettel and Massa the dark horses.

Button is nowhere near as talented as Hamilton, as his performances in the second half of last season show. The car regulations of 2010 might favour his smooth style though. Schumacher's fitness and motivation will only really be proven after a few races, but hopefully the challenge of facing Lewis with the same engines will motivate him.

Kubica might be able to win a race in the right circumstances, but the uncertainty over Renault's future (plus the management changes and stigma of Crashgate) must have affected their preparations. You'd think he'd need better circumstances than Alonso to win races for them.

I hope all four new teams make it onto the track, a 26 car grid will be a sight to behold. Other than USF1 they all look quite promising.

[Josh Overhill]

As much as I don't want them to, as I absolutely hate Ferrari, I think they will be back on form this season, and I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso does take the championship. I do think Alonso will destroy Massa, and in a way I hope he does, just to prove they should have kept Raikkonen. I personally think Massa is one of the most overrated drivers in the history of F1, it would have been an absolute joke if he had won in 2008, especially given that the FIA were doing all they could to hand him the title.

I'm also looking forward to all the new teams coming in. Lotus have shown their intent from day 1, Virgin/Manor are looking good, though I am concerned about the lack of activity from USF1 and Campos Meta, and can't help thinking one of those teams will not be on the grid come Bahrain.

[Gavin Chipper]

As much as I don't want them to, as I absolutely hate Ferrari, I think they will be back on form this season, and I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso does take the championship. I do think Alonso will destroy Massa, and in a way I hope he does, just to prove they should have kept Raikkonen. I personally think Massa is one of the most overrated drivers in the history of F1, it would have been an absolute joke if he had won in 2008, especially given that the FIA were doing all they could to hand him the title.

Maybe Alonso would have destroyed Raikkonen as well. There have been more overrated drivers than Massa though - Hill, Villeneuve and Coulthard for a while.

[Martin Smith]

I think people always accepted that Hill and Coulthard were inferior to Schumacher - although some were very slow to accept that Hakkinen was the superior McLaren driver. On raw talent, Raikkonen is more capable than Massa, but he loses interest too easily. He did very little in the second half of 2008, and only really produced his best last year after Massa's injury gave him a chance of staying at Ferrari.

[Gavin Chipper]

I think people always accepted that Hill and Coulthard were inferior to Schumacher - although some were very slow to accept that Hakkinen was the superior McLaren driver. On raw talent, Raikkonen is more capable than Massa, but he loses interest too easily. He did very little in the second half of 2008, and only really produced his best last year after Massa's injury gave him a chance of staying at Ferrari.

Most people probably did think they were inferior to Schumacher, but when they were driving the Williamses in the mid 90s, a lot of people couldn't see past that and thought they were Schumacher's best rivals.

As for Raikkonen, I've been surprised by his form at Ferrari but I wonder if it's partly down to tyre characteristics - good on the Michelins, not so much on the Bridgestones. That might sound like a minor detail, but so does playing surface in tennis.

Massa's a solid enough driver but and probably a bit overrated by some, but I don't think most people genuinely think he is one of the very top drivers so I don't think he is that overrated.

[Josh Overhill]

Williams had the best car in the mid-90's, and even in 1995 when Schumacher won the championship by about 30-odd points, the Williams was probably marginally better, even though Benetton and Williams both had Reanult engines, but Hill made a lot of mistakes, and Schumacher was always on hand to capitalise. When Schumacher moved to Ferrari in 1996, a number of Benetton staff such as Ross Brawn went with him, leaving Benetton to struggle, but it was very much a transitional year for Ferrari, so Williams had by far the best car that year, which gave Hill the best opportunity to win the championship. While he did, he was outpaced at a number of races by Villeneuve, then driving in his first year in F1, and Villeneuve could have quite easily won the championship had it not been for team orders. Williams again had the best car in 1997, but Villeneuve was extremely inconsistent that year, and again could have quite easily been beaten.

While many believe Schumacher to be the greatest F1 driver of all time, on several occasions he resorted to gamesmanship when he realised things weren't going to go his way, and many people forget that. How he wasn't stripped of the title in 1994 I'll never know (when he damaged his car and then delibrately drove into Hill to prevent him from winning), he got what he deserved in 1997 (attempted to take Villeneuve off and crashed himself), and he only won in 2003 because Ferrai bitched about the tyres and the FIA took their side (as always). There were plenty more minor ones, such as when he delibately crashed in qualifying in Monaco 2006 to get the session red flagged

[Charlie Reams]

on several occasions he resorted to gamesmanship when he realised things weren't going to go his way, and many people forget that.

So did Ryan Taylor and I like him.

[Ian Dent]

Massa is really really good. Not over-rated at all.

IMO.

[Gavin Chipper]

Williams had by far the best car that year, which gave Hill the best opportunity to win the championship. While he did, he was outpaced at a number of races by Villeneuve, then driving in his first year in F1, and Villeneuve could have quite easily won the championship had it not been for team orders.

To be honest I don't think Hill benefited from team orders at all that year. It was only a handful of times that Villeneuve had the measure of him (but people remember it more because one of the three times Villeneuve outqualified him was at the first race) and had Villeneuve taken the title, it would have been very fortunate for him.

[Josh Overhill]

Hill was always the more likely of the two to win, but some (though not me) believe that Williams engineered Villeneuve's problem at the the end of the Australian Grand Prix to allow Hill to win, which gave an 8 point flip. Villeneuve closed in on him in the latter stages of the season, and I think was told to back off by the team (can't be sure of this though). Nonetheless, Hill did have a couple of absolute shockers that season, namely in Spain.

Villeneuve I always thought was unlucky after 1997, the Williams was uncompetitive after the loss of Reanult for 1998, and put in a number of good drives for a BAR in 2000 and 2001, before he really went downhill in 2003 onwards.

Anyone else skeptical as to whether USF1 and/or Campos will be on the grid in Bahrain?

[Martin Smith]

Campos look quite worrying, their boss openly states that they need more funding to be on the grid, although possible investors such as Tony Teixeira (who ran the A1GP series) have been mooted. USF1 are hard to judge, they claim to be at an advanced stage with their car and have even passed some FIA crash tests, but they've signed no drivers yet (and look set to run two non-American paying rookies). They've got a big PR battle to win, feeling has been quite strongly against them for a while now. Virgin and Lotus both look quite promising, and Sauber are a dark horse, especially if Kobayashi gets an experienced team-mate to learn from (de la Rosa or Heidfeld looks likely).

[Gavin Chipper]

Hill was always the more likely of the two to win, but some (though not me) believe that Williams engineered Villeneuve's problem at the the end of the Australian Grand Prix to allow Hill to win, which gave an 8 point flip. Villeneuve closed in on him in the latter stages of the season, and I think was told to back off by the team (can't be sure of this though). Nonetheless, Hill did have a couple of absolute shockers that season, namely in Spain.

Villeneuve I always thought was unlucky after 1997, the Williams was uncompetitive after the loss of Reanult for 1998, and put in a number of good drives for a BAR in 2000 and 2001, before he really went downhill in 2003 onwards.

Anyone else skeptical as to whether USF1 and/or Campos will be on the grid in Bahrain?

At the first race of 1996, after Villeneuve went off onto the grass, he was spewing stuff out which was covering Hill's car. It's possible he could have lasted the race without slowing down but it seems a massive slice of luck for Williams to be handed a realistic-looking excuse to get Hill ahead.

Where did you hear that Villeneuve was asked to slow down? Do you believe it? Do you believe that Villeneuve of all people would listen? Although Villeneuve closed on him, it was nothing to do with being consistently faster. I think Hill's biggest lead was 25 points after the French GP, and he lost 10 points at the next race due to a car-failure-induced spin. He still ended 19 points ahead. Agter the first race, Villeneuve only outqualifed Hill twice more all season.

I don't think Villeneuve was unlucky after 1997. I think he showed he wasn't good enough. He was quicker than people like Zonta at BAR but had a poor car so couldn't do anything, but he later struggled to put Panis in the shade and was slower than Button. When he came back after the break, he wasn't particularly convincing against Massa or Heidfeld.

[Josh Overhill]

Oh no, I don't believe it at all, but I know a lot of conspiracy theorists do

However, out-qualifying someone doesn't count for anything when it comes to race pace, and Villeneuve did outrace him in a couple more races, as well as the ones he outqualified him

But to be perfectly honest, I was only 6 at the time (I've watched F1 religiously since I was 4), so I know some of my views from the 1996 season are likely to be inaccurate!

[Jon O'Neill]

Does anybody else find Button really annoying?

[Gavin Chipper]

Does anybody else find Button really annoying?

Not massively, although I prefer Hamilton. Also, some of the drivers guessed that it would carry on raining, some guessed that it wouldn't. I don't think Button is some sort of super weather forecaster from inside his own cockpit, so I think he was overly praised for what was essentially luck.

[Jon O'Neill]

Does anybody else find Button really annoying?

Not massively, although I prefer Hamilton. Also, some of the drivers guessed that it would carry on raining, some guessed that it wouldn't. I don't think Button is some sort of super weather forecaster from inside his own cockpit, so I think he was overly praised for what was essentially luck.

He has done it twice though, and got it right both times. I don't doubt his driving ability, I just think he's an arrogant prick.

[Ian Fitzpatrick]

Does anybody else find Button really annoying?

Not massively, although I prefer Hamilton. Also, some of the drivers guessed that it would carry on raining, some guessed that it wouldn't. I don't think Button is some sort of super weather forecaster from inside his own cockpit, so I think he was overly praised for what was essentially luck.

He has done it twice though, and got it right both times. I don't doubt his driving ability, I just think he's an arrogant prick.

To succeed you have to have an air of arrogance about you.

[Ian Volante]

Not massively, although I prefer Hamilton. Also, some of the drivers guessed that it would carry on raining, some guessed that it wouldn't. I don't think Button is some sort of super weather forecaster from inside his own cockpit, so I think he was overly praised for what was essentially luck.

He has done it twice though, and got it right both times. I don't doubt his driving ability, I just think he's an arrogant prick.

To succeed you have to have an air of arrogance about you.

Aye, a lot of the best drivers are particularly up themselves as far as I can tell - supreme confidence is a large portion of what allows them that bit of extra speed where others may fear death by concrete wall however!

[Jon O'Neill]

True yeah. I wonder why he annoys me so much. He annoys me the way fat people do in sports like snooker and darts, but he's in pretty good shape. Weird.

[Gavin Chipper]

Does anybody else find Button really annoying?

Not massively, although I prefer Hamilton. Also, some of the drivers guessed that it would carry on raining, some guessed that it wouldn't. I don't think Button is some sort of super weather forecaster from inside his own cockpit, so I think he was overly praised for what was essentially luck.

He has done it twice though, and got it right both times. I don't doubt his driving ability, I just think he's an arrogant prick.

Twice isn't statistically significant though. It could have carried on raining and got harder. There's no way Button in his position knew that it wasn't going to. Even in Australia, he was going backwards on the intermediates anyway and had been passed by Hamilton and didn't have much to lose by being the first to change.

Yes he's a good driver but he can't rely on this sort of situation coming up every other race because it won't. And when it settles down I think Hamilton will beat him quite easily. There are a few drivers who I consider to be quite a bit better than Button - mainly Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.

[Martin Smith]

Button made a fantastic call to pit at Melbourne, but even that was down to other drivers beign quicker. Don't forget that he was the only driver in the 3-car first-corner incident not to be compromised too. China was even more of a hero-or-zero call, and he was lucky that none of the other established frontrunners got it right. His spin out of qualifying in Malaysia was perfectly timed too - not in a race, and in a situation where several rivals also had unsuccessful qualifying. His behaviour as they prepared to restart after the safety car was borderline in terms of meriting a penalty too.

In short, the luck has been with Jenson, and over the course of the season I can see Lewis overhauling him.

[Ryan Taylor]

on several occasions he resorted to gamesmanship when he realised things weren't going to go his way, and many people forget that.

So did Ryan Taylor and I like him.

Winning is everything.

[Charlie Reams]

So did Ryan Taylor and I like him.

Winning is everything.

That was before you started the Riddles thread

[Ryan Taylor]

So did Ryan Taylor and I like him.

Winning is everything.

That was before you started the Riddles thread

I feel not being invited to your wedding is a little harsh.

[Charlie Reams]

I feel not being invited to your wedding is a little harsh.

I know, I'm gonna have to find a new bride now.

[Ryan Taylor]

I feel not being invited to your wedding is a little harsh.

I know, I'm gonna have to find a new bride now.

.