British Summertime

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Dinos Sfyris
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British Summertime

Post by Dinos Sfyris » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:16 pm

A point of minor interest: Is it just me or hasn't this forum put its clocks forward? When you submit stuff its like you did it an hour ago. Not a major issue I know, just a bit confusing. Perhaps Soo can sort it out.

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Joseph Bolas
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Re: British Summertime

Post by Joseph Bolas » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:21 pm

You have to change it manually :).

Click on USER CONTROL PANEL and then click on the BOARD PREFERENCES tab. There you will find the option Summer Time/DST is in effect. Click YES, to change the time to the correct time :).

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Charlie Reams » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:20 pm

This belongs in off-topic so I'm moving it. There's probably some way I can change the time zone for everyone but right now it takes me about 10 minutes to load a page so I'll try later.

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Joseph Bolas
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Re: British Summertime

Post by Joseph Bolas » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:31 pm

Not sure if the above problem has been solved, but a reminder to all that tonight the clocks go back :)

EDIT: Just checked and you have to do it manually, by clicking on USER CONTROL PANEL and then click on the BOARD PREFERENCES tab. There you will find the option Summer Time/DST is in effect. Click NO, to change the time to the correct time :).

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John Bosley
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Re: British Summertime

Post by John Bosley » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:31 am

Why oh why? What a bloody stupid invention this clock-changing is.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Kai Laddiman » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:41 pm

On a positive note, I enjoyed an hour extra sleep last night. :D
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Re: British Summertime

Post by Charlie Reams » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:44 pm

John Bosley wrote:Why oh why? What a bloody stupid invention this clock-changing is.
Working in daylight makes people happier and saves electricity. DST is a good idea. Timezones, on the other hand -- now there's a bloody stupid invention.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:24 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
John Bosley wrote:Why oh why? What a bloody stupid invention this clock-changing is.
Working in daylight makes people happier and saves electricity. DST is a good idea. Timezones, on the other hand -- now there's a bloody stupid invention.
I've never liked it. People say we're wasting daylight hours etc. but maybe we're not strictly diurnal creatures anyway. It's not simply that you have nocturnal creatures and diurnal ones and nothing in between. I would say that people naturally have their day centred a few hours forward from midday and BST is just a way of imposing an unnatural way of life on us. I've not done a scientific test on this - I'll let one of you do that - but I'm happier when it's GMT. And anyway, this attempt to make more use of daylight - why only have it for 7 months of the year if it's so good? And why 7 rather than 6? Or just have things earlier in the day rather than renaming time to sort the problem out. Seems a bit excessive!

Timezones - yeah fuck 'em.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Paul Howe » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:58 pm

I learnt from an Ethiopian lad that their 0000 hours is at 0600 GMT, which due to it's proximity to the equator is pretty much spot on dawn all year round.

I do like the time shifts because i) getting up when it's still dark is bloody depressing and ii)in the summer when it's light in the hours when most people are doing something other than work, it's nice to have the light for as long as possible. Living in Scotland for a year where it doesn't get dark until after 10 for the whole summer definitely had a nice vibe to it (when it wasn't pissing it down anyway)

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Howard Somerset » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:54 pm

This year, for the first time in a long time, I was pleased that the clocks had gone back. It meant that I had a good excuse to stop decorating an hour before I would have done, had I done it yesterday. :D

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Joseph Bolas » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:13 pm

Howard Somerset wrote:This year, for the first time in a long time, I was pleased that the clocks had gone back. It meant that I had a good excuse to stop decorating an hour before I would have done, had I done it yesterday. :D
I like it when the clocks go back and when it gets dark, nice and early in the evening :D

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Jason Larsen
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Re: British Summertime

Post by Jason Larsen » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:32 pm

Daylight Savings Time here in America doesn't end until November 2nd!

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Re: British Summertime

Post by John Bosley » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:29 am

Joseph Bolas wrote:
Howard Somerset wrote:This year, for the first time in a long time, I was pleased that the clocks had gone back. It meant that I had a good excuse to stop decorating an hour before I would have done, had I done it yesterday. :D
I like it when the clocks go back and when it gets dark, nice and early in the evening :D
Yes but that is just 'going back' to GMT, to what it should be, to what is natural. It's the British Summer Time that should be abandoned. We should have Greenwich Mean Time all the time.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Paul Howe » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:33 am

John Bosley wrote:
Yes but that is just 'going back' to GMT, to what it should be, to what is natural. It's the British Summer Time that should be abandoned. We should have Greenwich Mean Time all the time.
So a completely arbitrary timing scheme is natural? What I don't think is natural (be warned, pseudoscientific bollocks coming up) is for humans to adjust to the large yearly variation in day lengths in non-tropical latitudes. I'd be quite happy with a 2 or 3 hour shunt forward in the summer. We'd get a really long day in the autumn and there could be some sort of all night sun festival on the short day in spring to celebrate all the extra daylight we'd be getting. Spring is sorely in need of an excuse for national revelry, and this would be a delightfully pagan up-yours for subverting the meaning of Easter.

I'm only arguing in this thread to bump the atheist one down a bit, if it's anything like the last one then God help us all.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Charlie Reams » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:50 am

Paul Howe wrote: So a completely arbitrary timing scheme is natural? What I don't think is natural (be warned, pseudoscientific bollocks coming up) is for humans to adjust to the large yearly variation in day lengths in non-tropical latitudes. I'd be quite happy with a 2 or 3 hour shunt forward in the summer. We'd get a really long day in the autumn and there could be some sort of all night sun festival on the short day in spring to celebrate all the extra daylight we'd be getting. Spring is sorely in need of an excuse for national revelry, and this would be a delightfully pagan up-yours for subverting the meaning of Easter.

I'm only arguing in this thread to bump the atheist one down a bit, if it's anything like the last one then God help us all.
Good post. Reminds me of that George Carlin joke, "And then, overnight, I became a sun worshipper."

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:07 pm

Paul Howe wrote:
John Bosley wrote:
Yes but that is just 'going back' to GMT, to what it should be, to what is natural. It's the British Summer Time that should be abandoned. We should have Greenwich Mean Time all the time.
So a completely arbitrary timing scheme is natural? What I don't think is natural (be warned, pseudoscientific bollocks coming up) is for humans to adjust to the large yearly variation in day lengths in non-tropical latitudes. I'd be quite happy with a 2 or 3 hour shunt forward in the summer. We'd get a really long day in the autumn and there could be some sort of all night sun festival on the short day in spring to celebrate all the extra daylight we'd be getting. Spring is sorely in need of an excuse for national revelry, and this would be a delightfully pagan up-yours for subverting the meaning of Easter.

I'm only arguing in this thread to bump the atheist one down a bit, if it's anything like the last one then God help us all.
Paul, I don't think GMT is completely arbitrary, for those living at the same longitude (unless it's latitude - I'm pretty sure it's longitude) as Greenwich anyway. While there is a bit of variation throughout the year (I don't think it's that much actually), midnight would generally be when the sun is at it's lowest point and midday when it's at it's highest.

OK, so London is towards the east of the UK, but if anything people further west should want their clocks further back, so even less argument for BST.

Actually, I do think your first post has merit but some people think that it should be BST all year round which I see as far more arbitrary. If we are going to keep one "timezone" then make it the more logical one (GMT, although as that has eastern bias you could make it even further away from BST) and then organise our days around that. Changing to BST permanently is a bit like saying "OK guys, we've fucked up and made everything in the day an hour later than we should have done so instead of putting things at more appropriate times we'll just redefine time to suit." A bit like building your house in the wrong place and moving the rest of the world to make it right.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Paul Howe » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:21 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Paul, I don't think GMT is completely arbitrary, for those living at the same longitude (unless it's latitude - I'm pretty sure it's longitude) as Greenwich anyway. While there is a bit of variation throughout the year (I don't think it's that much actually), midnight would generally be when the sun is at it's lowest point and midday when it's at it's highest.
Completely arbitrary was a poor choice of words, as I knew that 1200GMT is when the sun is directly overhead the Greenwich meridian (on average as you said, hence Greenwich Mean Time). But it is arbitrary in the sense that astronomical timekeeping, admittedly a fine monument to human cleverness, has been obsoleted by the atomic clock, Greenwich is just an arbitrary site that happened to be a good spot for an observatory, and people don't even notice when the sun is directly overhead, they care about when it rises and sets (OK they're related, but it seems like going through a superfluous middleman).

Since astronomy is no longer required to keep absolute time, we might as well number it according to social convenience. People adjust their behaviour patterns according to the variability in daylight over the course of the year, but they also have a dense web of obligations that requires coordinating their actions with others, which means they can't just adjust naturally. Flicking the time forward and back for everyone seems like a relatively inexpensive way of overcoming this inertia, but I admit I haven't though about it in too much detail, I just like taking a position and arguing it. Can you tell I'm bored?

Oh and I agree BST year round would be daft, but I'm not sure if it's significantly more daft than year round GMT, or if anyone actually argued for that.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Michael Wallace » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:49 pm

Thing is, it's not GMT any more, it's UTC...

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Re: British Summertime

Post by John Douglas » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:13 pm

Between 1968 and 1971 we had year-round BST, which was cunningly called British Standard Time. It was ended after a vicious campaign by the papers, objecting to children going to school in the dark. (Mow 'em down, I say - sorry, not you, Kai.) I'm in favour of Western European Time, i.e. GMT + 1 in the winter and GMT + 2 in the summer, as observed, for example, in Spain, most of which is to the west of Grenwich. Apparently we can't now change the dates we change the clocks - that is set by E.U. directives as the last Sunday in March/October. But we can change the time-zone - we won't, though, because of all those hill farmers in Scotland.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:58 pm

Paul Howe wrote:Completely arbitrary was a poor choice of words, as I knew that 1200GMT is when the sun is directly overhead the Greenwich meridian (on average as you said, hence Greenwich Mean Time). But it is arbitrary in the sense that astronomical timekeeping, admittedly a fine monument to human cleverness, has been obsoleted by the atomic clock, Greenwich is just an arbitrary site that happened to be a good spot for an observatory, and people don't even notice when the sun is directly overhead, they care about when it rises and sets (OK they're related, but it seems like going through a superfluous middleman).

Since astronomy is no longer required to keep absolute time, we might as well number it according to social convenience. People adjust their behaviour patterns according to the variability in daylight over the course of the year, but they also have a dense web of obligations that requires coordinating their actions with others, which means they can't just adjust naturally. Flicking the time forward and back for everyone seems like a relatively inexpensive way of overcoming this inertia, but I admit I haven't though about it in too much detail, I just like taking a position and arguing it. Can you tell I'm bored?

Oh and I agree BST year round would be daft, but I'm not sure if it's significantly more daft than year round GMT, or if anyone actually argued for that.
For some reason I just like the notion of midnight being in the middle of the night and midday being in the middle of the day. I find the aesthetics of it comforting. Maybe not on here, but I've seen a lot of people argue for BST all year round. And I see it as more arbitrary.

I can see the advantages in the clock change I suppose, but the very idea of it seems bizarre to me.

I also like taking a position and arguing it. Arguing is one of my favourite things. :mrgreen:

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:00 pm

John Douglas wrote: But we can change the time-zone - we won't, though, because of all those hill farmers in Scotland.
Why should they care? Hill farmers sound like a reclusive bunch, so why does it matter to them what we name the time? They can just do what they need to do when they need to do it.

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:27 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: For some reason I just like the notion of midnight being in the middle of the night and midday being in the middle of the day. I find the aesthetics of it comforting. Maybe not on here, but I've seen a lot of people argue for BST all year round. And I see it as more arbitrary.
I agree with you there, it just works well that way. And if we stay on BST, it would still be dark two hours after I got to work on a morning, which is just silly. And I don't go to work particularly early.
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Re: British Summertime

Post by Joseph Bolas » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:12 pm

Just a bump of this thread for any new members who aren't sure how to change the time on the forum, as the clocks went forward one hour last night.

Click on User Control Panel and then click on the Board Preferrences tab. There you will find the option Summer Time/DST is in effect. Click Yes, to change the time to the correct time :).

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Lorraine Murtagh » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:51 pm

Ian Volante wrote: I agree with you there, it just works well that way. And if we stay on BST, it would still be dark two hours after I got to work on a morning, which is just silly. And I don't go to work particularly early.
Seems bloody early to me :x

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Re: British Summertime

Post by Ian Volante » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:02 am

Lorraine Murtagh wrote:
Ian Volante wrote: I agree with you there, it just works well that way. And if we stay on BST, it would still be dark two hours after I got to work on a morning, which is just silly. And I don't go to work particularly early.
Seems bloody early to me :x
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