Derren Brown - The Events

[Jon Corby]

What I'm getting at is, why complicate things unnecessarily? The split screen explanation for the lottery trick is not just the one that is self-evidently true once you examine the footage closely; it's also the simplest way of doing it given that there was no audience in the studio to witness what really happened. With the squash ball trick, he had a volunteer there throwing the ball for him. What do you suppose she saw at the time, if the footage we saw was CGI'd?

Sure, I see your point now Phil.

I wondered if you could also rig the squares, such that they're angled very very slightly towards 37, and made to bounce the ball differently (37 won't bounce the ball hardly at all, whereas the squares furthest from it will give it an extra boost) I have only seen this segment of the show once, but I think Matt seemed to think the bounce of the ball looked unusual. Again, that's probably overcomplicating it, but it would make the effect utterly convincing from the spectator's point of view. I really don't know if it's possible, it doesn't sound too far-fetched to me, but I really have no idea about stuff like that. Actually it does sound quite far-fetched reading it back. But I dunno, it might be possible. Maybe.

[Phil Reynolds]

I wondered if you could also rig the squares, such that they're angled very very slightly towards 37, and made to bounce the ball differently (37 won't bounce the ball hardly at all, whereas the squares furthest from it will give it an extra boost) I have only seen this segment of the show once, but I think Matt seemed to think the bounce of the ball looked unusual. Again, that's probably overcomplicating it, but it would make the effect utterly convincing from the spectator's point of view.

I agree it would be brilliant if you could make that work, but like you I'm unsure of its feasibility. You could probably increase the likelihood of the ball ending up in a particular square, but I doubt you could guarantee it. Of course, he may have done the trick several times with a string of volunteers and shown us the one that worked.

I think the odd one or two strange-looking bounces were most likely due to things like the unusual design of the court (including the ball hitting some angled glass trim at one end which made it look like it was suddenly changing direction in mid-air), backspin, and the ball hitting the raised struts between the numbered squares. Let's face it, if you were going to the effort of putting in a CGI ball, there'd be no reason to draw attention to it by making the bounces look "unnatural".

[Jon Corby]

Thinking about it, squash balls bouncing round a court always look odd to me anyway (I don't play) so it would have been difficult for me to have noticed anything even weirder about this one.

[Matt Morrison]

Totally agree with you Phil. For some reason I hadn't even thought about the far-more-simple ways there would be to do it other than CGI. Clever editing would be far more likely, although even multiple takes until he got it right would still be feasible. Yes that would involve the 'volunteer' willingly lying but who the fuck trusts all of Derren Brown's 'volunteers' anyway? I certainly don't. But yeah, probably not CGI.

It's interesting that Derren seems to be getting us/Jon/me to think up far more complicated methods of tricking the audience than he would really need to use. I think that's going to be different in the future considering he seems to have pissed us all off; with future stunts we're simply going to be happy to say "pah, camera trick" and end the discussion there which is why this series could really hurt his reputation.

Quick note to the two of you - it's A-lol not a-lol, I'm extremely proud that you're both championing it, but the capital A is vital.

[Kirk Bevins]

Haha a-lol.

[Matt Morrison]

Haha a-lol.

Behave. There's a Countdown Wiki page with your name on it just begging to be fucked with again.

[Kirk Bevins]

Haha a-lol.

Behave. There's a Countdown Wiki page with your name on it just begging to be fucked with again.

Love you really Matt. xx

[Chris Corby]

How do we know that he didn't get the gym ball wrong on twenty occasions and only showed us the time he got it right?

[Phil Reynolds]

Of course, he may have done the trick several times with a string of volunteers and shown us the one that worked.

How do we know that he didn't get the gym ball wrong on twenty occasions and only showed us the time he got it right?

Well, I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

[Kirk Bevins]

Well, I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

Well, I suppose foeing you is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Alec Rivers]

It's A-lol not a-lol. ... the capital A is vital.

I'm guessing the A stands for 'actually', and I'd like to do my bit to help its use spread, but is the capital to distinguish it from words such as a-flutter?

[Matt Morrison]

It's A-lol not a-lol. ... the capital A is vital.

I'm guessing the A stands for 'actually', and I'd like to do my bit to help its use spread, but is the capital to distinguish it from words such as a-flutter?

It's just the way it works I think, the capital gives it a bit of power and accentuates the "aaaaactually laughing out loud". I keep saying I'll get some t-shirts printed and I will one day.

[Alec Rivers]

I'll get some t-shirts printed one day.

That'd be cool, with a pic maybe.

or


Edit - changed picture host.

[Gavin Chipper]

It's A-lol not a-lol. ... the capital A is vital.

I'm guessing the A stands for 'actually', and I'd like to do my bit to help its use spread, but is the capital to distinguish it from words such as a-flutter?

It's just the way it works I think, the capital gives it a bit of power and accentuates the "aaaaactually laughing out loud". I keep saying I'll get some t-shirts printed and I will one day.

Presumably it's like A-OK. OK with a pointless "A" at the beginning.

[Michael Wallace]

So how did he do this? Split screen?

[Charlie Reams]

I had memorised pi up to 257 decimal places at A-level and it was fun to recite it.

Necro'd.

[Gavin Chipper]

I had memorised pi up to 257 decimal places at A-level and it was fun to recite it.

Necro'd.

Did anyone watch a programme a while back about child "prodigies" where one boy memorised pi to a couple of hundred digits or so and this was hailed as some amazing record by his dad? I was wondering if it was based on this list which looks remarkably easy to get onto.

[Simon Myers]

I had memorised pi up to 257 decimal places at A-level and it was fun to recite it.

Necro'd.

<3 SMBC. Almost as good as PBF comics.

[Craig Beevers]

Derren Brown: Hero at 30,000 Feet on tonight at 10pm.

[Ryan Taylor]

Derren Brown: Hero at 30,000 Feet on tonight at 10pm.

Being Derren Brown's publicist is definitely a step down from being Countdown champion.

[Jon Corby]

I recorded this, did anybody watch it? Is it worth watching?

[Jon O'Neill]

I recorded this, did anybody watch it? Is it worth watching?

You probably won't like it. I quite enjoyed it because I liked the guy. It's quite a bit different from The Events.

[Ian Fitzpatrick]

I recorded this, did anybody watch it? Is it worth watching?

I watched the last half hour but felt it was all a bit too obviously staged.
My wife, who hates flying anyway, couldn't watch the bits on the plane, she was getting really twitchy.

[Jon O'Neill]

I recorded this, did anybody watch it? Is it worth watching?

I watched the last half hour but felt it was all a bit too obviously staged.
My wife, who hates flying anyway, couldn't watch the bits on the plane, she was getting really twitchy.

Staged in what way?

[Kirk Bevins]

My wife, who hates flying anyway, couldn't watch the bits on the plane, she was getting really twitchy.

Really? I can understand if you hate the feeling of flying or even the fear of dying but watching it happen on a TV screen when it's not impacting on you directly surely can't be frightening? I suppose that's why people watch films I guess.

[Jon Corby]

I recorded this, did anybody watch it? Is it worth watching?

You probably won't like it. I quite enjoyed it because I liked the guy. It's quite a bit different from The Events.

I like him too. I just don't really like anything that involves hypnosis because I believe it's simply a case of playing-along-for-the-sake-of-it. I just can't shake that. I just don't accept that it's possible to program people to do things and then forget about it. For me, "The Heist" was a load of bollocks for this reason. People were doing stuff because it was for a Derren Brown show. Derren's not gonna get you killed. He's not gonna make you do anything severely detrimental for the sake of entertainment. You might as well play along, you'll be on TV, it's an experience, you might actually get a prize at the end. If you could actually program people to commit crimes, or to hand over £5k and then forget ever meeting you... well, the consequences are obvious.

I'll watch it anyway

Did anyone see the Derren Brown Investigates series? Did we discuss that on here?

[Jon O'Neill]

My wife, who hates flying anyway, couldn't watch the bits on the plane, she was getting really twitchy.

Really? I can understand if you hate the feeling of flying or even the fear of dying but watching it happen on a TV screen when it's not impacting on you directly surely can't be frightening? I suppose that's why people watch films I guess.

I get all angsty when I see someone enclosed in a small space or think about it for too long. Makes me feel horrible.

[Jon O'Neill]

I recorded this, did anybody watch it? Is it worth watching?

You probably won't like it. I quite enjoyed it because I liked the guy. It's quite a bit different from The Events.

I like him too. I just don't really like anything that involves hypnosis because I believe it's simply a case of playing-along-for-the-sake-of-it. I just can't shake that. I just don't accept that it's possible to program people to do things and then forget about it. For me, "The Heist" was a load of bollocks for this reason. People were doing stuff because it was for a Derren Brown show. Derren's not gonna get you killed. He's not gonna make you do anything severely detrimental for the sake of entertainment. You might as well play along, you'll be on TV, it's an experience, you might actually get a prize at the end. If you could actually program people to commit crimes, or to hand over £5k and then forget ever meeting you... well, the consequences are obvious.

I'll watch it anyway

Did anyone see the Derren Brown Investigates series? Did we discuss that on here?

That's basically what hypnosis is though. Playing along.

Oh yeah I watched one of those, it was hilarious.

[Ian Fitzpatrick]

My wife, who hates flying anyway, couldn't watch the bits on the plane, she was getting really twitchy.

Really? I can understand if you hate the feeling of flying or even the fear of dying but watching it happen on a TV screen when it's not impacting on you directly surely can't be frightening? I suppose that's why people watch films I guess.

I guess it's just the thought of her being in the same situation that gets her wound up.

[Jon Corby]

That's basically what hypnosis is though. Playing along.

Sure but if the whole basis of the show relies on it, it does render it all a bit pointless. Like with that casino episode in The Events, Ben went and withdrew £5k, handed it over to Derren, and then pretended that he had no knowledge of it. There's nothing to think other than "you do remember, you're just pretending because it's Derren and you know he's not really gonna steal from you".

[Ryan Taylor]

I would recommend watching it Jon just because it's one of those events that causes a buzz and is pretty unmissable TV, but as a Derren Brown fan myself, I felt a bit let down by it. I'm failing to believe him any more and think it is just one big act with him and just seeing how far he can go before everyone finally turns round and exposes him as a fraud. I liked his work up until he did the horse racing one (The System), after that his stuff has become a bit too farfetched for me that I struggle to really believe any of it

SPOILER: E.g. on his show last night that whole thing when he woke the guy took him into some field with a crocodile and said that he would only ever remember it as a dream. If that's not bullshit then I don't know what is.

[Craig Beevers]

Thought it was mind-numbingly boring myself. I ended up switching over before the end.

[Ryan Taylor]

Thought it was mind-numbingly boring myself. I ended up switching over before the end.

What to? Fucking National Geographic?

[Gavin Chipper]

I think after he landed the plane in the simulator, Derren should have put him to sleep again and got him back in the real plane to make him think he landed it on the runway. He missed a trick there.

[Gavin Chipper]

Did anyone see the Derren Brown Investigates series? Did we discuss that on here?

Don't remember discussing it. It was OK, but all a bit predictable.

[Jon Corby]

I think after he landed the plane in the simulator, Derren should have put him to sleep again and got him back in the real plane to make him think he landed it on the runway. He missed a trick there.

Oh boy, this sounds hella gay.

I remember one bit once where some guy was playing a first-person zombie shoot-em-up, and Derren had tinkered* with the game with a computer graphics expert* so that somebody who was playing it would fall into a trance*. He then put this guy in a warehouse a short distance away, with a replica gun and a load of zombie actors, and let him play the game for real in there. He then put him back to sleep, and positioned him back in front of the game. And then woke him up. And the matey was all like "wow, that game was awesome, I really got into that."

I mean, for fuck's sake. As if.

* =

[Chris Corby]

Saw the 30,000 feet show. Derren Brown should stick to street tricks. A lot of the show was rediculous, eg breaking into a senior police officer's house, the aforementioned crocodile scene, a scene where apparently, not hypnotised, he allowed Brown to put a straightjacket on him and laid down on a railway line awaiting a (rather slow) train to arrive, not once saying, "Darren, fuck it, get me out of here." Even at the beginning when our "hero" was being selected, would he sit in a room and ignore smoke coming from under the door because he was too timid to say anything? I think Brown set it up so that he could get a big smoochy hug from a young guy at the end of it all. Utter bollox.

[Rosemary Roberts]

I haven't been watching any of his recent shows, he seemed to be getting a bit Uri Geller. From what you are all saying I made the right decision.

[Matt Morrison]

I think we should definitely start referring to him as Darren until he sorts his act out.

[Ryan Taylor]

I think we should definitely start referring to him as Darren until he sorts his act out.

Or poofter.

[Ben Hunter]

I stopped watching Darren Brown ever since he made that bloke think he was a puppet. I don't think he's a hypocrite or anything, he can present himself how he wants, I just can't be arsed to watch a magic-themed fictional drama that isn't even that good. On the other hand, I thought the lottery one was quite good since at least it was a proper trick. His explanation was bollocks but that's the point of magic tricks. In stuff like The Heist and this new one he's basically pretending he's doing a magic trick. For all I know it could be real but I bet it isn't.

[Ian Volante]

I think we should definitely start referring to him as Darren until he sorts his act out.

Or poofter.

Racist.

[Jon Corby]

Did anyone see the Derren Brown Investigates series? Did we discuss that on here?

Don't remember discussing it. It was OK, but all a bit predictable.

Okay, it was specifically the Psychic one I was thinking about (there was one about a US guy who recorded ghosts.... was there another?)

Anyway, I thought the psychic one was a bit lame, largely because he uses so many of the same tricks in his stage shows, so he couldn't do a proper whistle-blow on it without leaving a gaping hole in his own act.

[Matt Morrison]

there was one about a US guy who recorded ghosts.... was there another?

Derren Brown Investigates - 01.01 - The Man Who Contacts The Dead
Derren Brown Investigates - 01.02 - The Man With X-Ray Eyes
Derren Brown Investigates - 01.03 - The Ghost Hunter

They were all a bit odd. Like he was taking the piss out of the people involved in each case as if by showing them to be frauds and phonies indirectly reflected better on the stuff he himself does.

[Jon Corby]

there was one about a US guy who recorded ghosts.... was there another?

Derren Brown Investigates - 01.01 - The Man Who Contacts The Dead
Derren Brown Investigates - 01.02 - The Man With X-Ray Eyes
Derren Brown Investigates - 01.03 - The Ghost Hunter

They were all a bit odd. Like he was taking the piss out of the people involved in each case as if by showing them to be frauds and phonies indirectly reflected better on the stuff he himself does.

Hmm, not sure I saw the x-ray eyes one.

But yeah, you're right, somebody could theoretically do the same job on any of these latest Derren shows.

When he's on stage doing the mind-reading/psychic bit, it's fine because he says I'm not actually psychic, so it's still an impressive trick and you don't really know how he does it. I mean, there's a lot of ways to skin the cat, so does he have plants in the audience listening to conversations, watching what people write, does he have hidden mics, does he have a team of researchers who do background work on audience members, etc etc. It could be any of these things, or something else I haven't mentioned or thought of. A stage psychic will probably be doing a lot of the same. Derren simply can't do a proper exposé without trashing this part of his own act. So instead we get left with stuff like "the woman he did a reading for lived next door to his [Joe's] sister", which, while being hilarious, won't really help to convince a believer who knows that their next-door neighbour isn't related to the amazing medium they saw.

[Gavin Chipper]

I'm glad Derren did the Man with X-Rays Eyes one because I was going to poke my eyes out and learn to see again the magical way.

Also the one that recorded ghosts apparently died after the programme was made, which made it even more spooky.

[Jon Corby]

I see Derren has posted some "answers" on his blog to criticisms/accusations levelled at 'Hero' (which I finally watched last night ) including

I have NEVER used a ‘stooge’ (someone playing along and pretending to be fooled etc) in 10 years of TV work, despite the protestations of people who are convinced there’s no other method to be employed.

Well, The Seance starts with a clear "NONE OF THE TWELVE PARTICIPANTS IN THIS SEANCE ARE ACTORS OR STOOGES" message.

Fast-forward to around 36:45. Watch what happens... anyone spot it?

[Michael Wallace]

Fast-forward to around 36:45. Watch what happens... anyone spot it?

Nope? My only thought is that maybe his pen movement doesn't look like it's making an X, but I don't believe it's that.

[Kevin Thurlow]

Suppose our "hero" encounters a real bank robbery, person trapped in burning building/car, etc. Is he going to get himself killed because the fake experiences make him feel immortal?

I was a bit concerned that he didn't bother to slow the plane down when he landed, (which is a good idea to avoid crashing into things) but that might have been edited out.

[Jon Corby]

Fast-forward to around 36:45. Watch what happens... anyone spot it?

Nope? My only thought is that maybe his pen movement doesn't look like it's making an X, but I don't believe it's that.

1. Why on earth does he hide the card so much while he writes an X on it? Why would it matter if somebody either side saw it?
2. Does his pen movement match up with what we later see on the card?
3. Isn't it nice that the girl who gets the X is nicely opposite Derren. This also means she has her back to the camera for the long shot, so we can't see her card or her hands....

Edit to add

(4. I think, but I'm not certain, that when she reveals the X and puts her hands to her face, she still has the fingertip writer on the middle finger of her left hand! And it's gone in the next shot of her.)

[Jon Corby]

No comment?

[Craig Beevers]

I agree with it looking like there's something on her finger on the first shot. Haven't seen what a fingertip writer looks like mind - would have thought it would be more subtle than that.

[Jon Corby]

I agree with it looking like there's something on her finger on the first shot. Haven't seen what a fingertip writer looks like mind - would have thought it would be more subtle than that.

Yeah, it's usually just a tiny piece of pencil lead stuck inside the thumbnail so that just the very tip is exposed. That cross looks quite thick though, so I guess it would require something a bit bigger. But that's by-the-by really - what is blatant is that he is not writing a cross on the paper (as I said, why go to such deliberate lengths hide it?) and his two quick straight strokes bear no resemblance to the shaky cross that later gets shown to camera.

Of course, the fact that she then goes on to (pretend to) channel the dead girl should really be proof enough that she's in on it! But the cross thing is pretty careless, I'm sure Derren has an arsenal of better ways of forcing a choice on someone - particularly if they're already in on it.

[Jon Corby]

Even at the beginning when our "hero" was being selected, would he sit in a room and ignore smoke coming from under the door because he was too timid to say anything?

This is another thing that was quite hilariously wrong, and therefore almost certainly set up in some way*. The "Bystander Effect" Derren mentioned occurs when lots of people all observe something, and therefore shirk the responsibility of doing anything about it thinking it falls to someone else. The other people in the room clearly hadn't noticed, so surely even the most timid, unassuming guy would at least draw other people's attention to it, in order to spread the responsibility. (That's ignoring the fact that it also just looked like dry ice being fanned under a door, rather than an actual fire.)

*when I say set-up, I don't mean Derren specifically scripting it to Matt (because we can't have Matt knowingly in on it to that degree), but instead during the audition/interview stressing something like "what we're looking for for this show is somebody really introverted/lacking in confidence, so much so that when they notice unusual things they'd rather just sit there and ignore it rather than cause a fuss or bother others".

[Phil Reynolds]

Just watched the documentary about Derren that was on C4 last night. It restored my faith in him slightly when he commented that the follow-up programme to the lottery prediction show, in which he purported to show how it was done, is one that he cringes to think about now, and that even at the time he was sufficiently embarrassed that he felt obliged to add the parting shot I mentioned at the time, where he looked straight into camera at the end and said "It was a trick".

[Jon Corby]

It restored my faith in him slightly when he commented that the follow-up programme to the lottery prediction show, in which he purported to show how it was done, is one that he cringes to think about now

I'd agree, but he's made that god-awful Hero programme since then. Did he comment on that one?

[Ryan Taylor]

It restored my faith in him slightly when he commented that the follow-up programme to the lottery prediction show, in which he purported to show how it was done, is one that he cringes to think about now

I'd agree, but he's made that god-awful Hero programme since then. Did he comment on that one?

Yep and he actually regarded that as one of his best pieces of work. I thought it was one of his worst!

[Jon Corby]

It restored my faith in him slightly when he commented that the follow-up programme to the lottery prediction show, in which he purported to show how it was done, is one that he cringes to think about now

I'd agree, but he's made that god-awful Hero programme since then. Did he comment on that one?

Yep and he actually regarded that as one of his best pieces of work. I thought it was one of his worst!

Oh. Well I don't like the direction he's heading in then.

Did anyone watch that Penn & Teller show the other night?

[Jon O'Neill]

No, but I love them.

[Jon Corby]

No, but I love them.

Me too It was a little bit like a 'talent' show with P&T as the judges, but I think they were pretty deliberate in not making it too X-Factory/BGT. Some good tricks on there though (and a couple of naff ones). Penn & Teller did a couple of good ones too, and there was a REALLY good sleight of hand guy with a deck of cards. Love all that stuff.