Derren Brown - The Events

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Matt Morrison
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Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Phil Reynolds wrote:I trust you'll all be watching C4 (or E4, or More4 - they're all showing it) tonight at 10.35 as Derren "predicts" tonight's Lotto numbers live on air.
Well that was pretty cool. I don't even know where to start. Roll on Friday.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by JimBentley »

I must admit I've no idea where to start to think about how that was done. It's a trick, but I'm not even sure of what kind of trick it is.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Charlie Reams »

I liked it. Understatedly elegant. And of course no bloody clue how it was done.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Well: as I see it there are two possibilities. Either (a) the Lotto draw really is shown live on BBC1 or (b) it isn't. If it's the former, there must have been some pretty incredible technology involved in getting the numbers onto Derren's balls (sorry) during the draw. Not at all convinced by that. That leaves us with option (b) - which would mean that he had some inside assistance at the BBC and/or Camelot.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I thought it was alright. I don't know how he did it but I don't think it was necessarily any more impressive than the usual "I've predicted in advance which playing cards you're going to pick" except with lottery numbers. And of course 90% of what he said in his patter was bollocks, like not being allowed to say his numbers before the draw.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Phil Reynolds wrote:Well: as I see it there are two possibilities. Either (a) the Lotto draw really is shown live on BBC1 or (b) it isn't. If it's the former, there must have been some pretty incredible technology involved in getting the numbers onto Derren's balls (sorry) during the draw. Not at all convinced by that. That leaves us with option (b) - which would mean that he had some inside assistance at the BBC and/or Camelot.
Could they not have had computer screen things on the balls?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Phil Reynolds wrote:Either (a) the Lotto draw really is shown live on BBC1 or (b) it isn't. If it's the former, there must have been some pretty incredible technology involved in getting the numbers onto Derren's balls (sorry) during the draw.
The idea of a ball-printing machine built into the stand is the only thought I had, and I entertained it for all of five seconds. It's nothing like Derren's style and obviously wouldn't even need Derren involved. But I disagree that the technology would need to be 'incredible'. I just wish he hadn't faffed about for those ten seconds after the draw was finished before revealing the balls.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:Well: as I see it there are two possibilities. Either (a) the Lotto draw really is shown live on BBC1 or (b) it isn't. If it's the former, there must have been some pretty incredible technology involved in getting the numbers onto Derren's balls (sorry) during the draw. Not at all convinced by that. That leaves us with option (b) - which would mean that he had some inside assistance at the BBC and/or Camelot.
Could they not have had computer screen things on the balls?
Or a window in the balls and a remotely controlled thing with numbers on inside. Not necessarily "incredible".
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matthew Green »

Knowing him, he'll probably provide a perfectly understandable explanation but right at the last minute do something stupendously impressive and not explain it whatsoever.
If I suddenly have a squirming baby on my lap it probably means that I should start paying it some attention and stop wasting my time messing around on a Countdown forum
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Rosemary Roberts »

While the balls were being selected his right hand was completely concealed behind his piece of card and could have been doing anything. At the time I thought he was writing the numbers on the back of the card, but he could equally have been typing them into a remote printer.

I am, however, perfectly convinced that he won't really reveal exactly how it was done.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Rosemary Roberts wrote:While the balls were being selected his right hand was completely concealed behind his piece of card and could have been doing anything. At the time I thought he was writing the numbers on the back of the card, but he could equally have been typing them into a remote printer.
Why on earth would HE type them into a remote printer?
This was my point about why it won't be some ball-printing machine - it wouldn't require Derren at all (unless he's recently picked up an engineering/compsci degree to help out with it). If it were the case, the show could have been fronted equally well by Richard Madeley, a digestive, or the entire cast of Hollyoaks, albeit with slightly less dramatic tension.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Rosemary Roberts »

Matt Morrison wrote:
Rosemary Roberts wrote:While the balls were being selected his right hand was completely concealed behind his piece of card and could have been doing anything. At the time I thought he was writing the numbers on the back of the card, but he could equally have been typing them into a remote printer.
Why on earth would HE type them into a remote printer?
This was my point about why it won't be some ball-printing machine - it wouldn't require Derren at all (unless he's recently picked up an engineering/compsci degree to help out with it). If it were the case, the show could have been fronted equally well by Richard Madeley, a digestive, or the entire cast of Hollyoaks, albeit with slightly less dramatic tension.
I don't think a self-respecting conjuror would work that way. I know people like David Copperfield have any amount of complex technical equipment (and staff to operate it) but that always strikes me as a bit infra dig.

So - if it wasn't doing anything - why was that hand so completely out of sight?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Michael Wallace »

Matt Morrison wrote:Why on earth would HE type them into a remote printer?
This was my point about why it won't be some ball-printing machine - it wouldn't require Derren at all (unless he's recently picked up an engineering/compsci degree to help out with it). If it were the case, the show could have been fronted equally well by Richard Madeley, a digestive, or the entire cast of Hollyoaks, albeit with slightly less dramatic tension.
Anything like sleight of hand or trickery involving technologically advanced balls just doesn't seem his style. The only thoughts I've had are things like him pre-recording *loads* of sets of balls, and then using blue screen on the TV, but he'd have to have done a silly number of sets (I think, I can't be bothered to work it out) to be sure of at least 4 (which is probably the fewest he could get away with when he started off by saying "I want 5"). But even then that seems pretty implausible. (edit: in fact, now I think about it, that would still fall down when it came to the 'reveal', since at that point he's written down the winning numbers, which obviously needs 14 million pre-recorded shows)

Am looking forward to finding out how he did it.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Did anyone else get the impression from the Channel 4 voiceover intro to the show that it was a foregone conclusion and they already knew he was gonna get all six right?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Rosemary Roberts »

Matt Morrison wrote:Did anyone else get the impression from the Channel 4 voiceover intro to the show that it was a foregone conclusion and they already knew he was gonna get all six right?
I'm sure Darren Brown doesn't go on stage not knowing what he is going to achieve. That long drawn-out spiel about studying the lottery for a year and maybe not getting all the numbers is just that: without trickery there is no way he could be sure of guessing even one. That carefully concealed hand has to have been up to something, and I don't believe he was just jerking off to relieve the terrible tension he so carefully built up.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Rosemary Roberts wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:Did anyone else get the impression from the Channel 4 voiceover intro to the show that it was a foregone conclusion and they already knew he was gonna get all six right?
I'm sure Darren Brown doesn't go on stage not knowing what he is going to achieve. That long drawn-out spiel about studying the lottery for a year and maybe not getting all the numbers is just that: without trickery there is no way he could be sure of guessing even one. That carefully concealed hand has to have been up to something, and I don't believe he was just jerking off to relieve the terrible tension he so carefully built up.
Yeah I phrased that badly - I would expect Channel 4 to 'know' Derren was going to get all 6, just like I 'knew' he'd get all 6 and we'd be here discussing the 'how' rather than the 'how many'. The cheeky bugger knows exactly what he's doing. What I meant to say was that the voiceover seemed to already give away that he was going to achieve it, which might have taken a bit of the fun away from anyone expecting him to fail.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jennifer Turner »

Well, it looks like there was a split screen effect with a fake "wobble" applied to make it look like a handheld camera, the left-hand side of the screen was frozen to allow someone to sneak in and place the correct balls in the holder. The fake wobble is the really brilliant misdirection bit.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Kevin Thurlow »

Any "prediction" that is only revealed after the event has happened is going to be some sort of conjuring trick, usually sleight of hand. (But I'm sure he's use technology if he thought it best.) I didn't watch the programme, but did video it so maybe I'll spot something...

I have seen his stage show, including effects where I know how they're done, but still usually don't spot him doing it! He is rather good - it helps that he combines traditional effects with the psychological stuff, making it even harder to guess what he's up to.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Rosemary Roberts »

Jennifer Turner wrote:Well, it looks like there was a split screen effect with a fake "wobble" applied to make it look like a handheld camera, the left-hand side of the screen was frozen to allow someone to sneak in and place the correct balls in the holder. The fake wobble is the really brilliant misdirection bit.
I didn't spot that at the time, but his right hand could easily have been setting up a set of correct balls which he then substituted for the dummies under cover of the camera-shake while he was turning the rig around - no need of an assistant other than the cooperative wobbler. Amazing sleight of hand, but no more remarkable than the classic appearance of a birdcage with live doves in it.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jennifer Turner wrote:Well, it looks like there was a split screen effect with a fake "wobble" applied to make it look like a handheld camera, the left-hand side of the screen was frozen to allow someone to sneak in and place the correct balls in the holder. The fake wobble is the really brilliant misdirection bit.
You beat me to it Jennifer. I watched it again on 4+1 before going to bed and am pretty convinced that's how it was done.

The main giveaway was the cut, during the opening spiel, to a wide shot showing Derren apparently alone in the studio apart from himself and the handheld camera operator. At the point where it cut back to the "handheld" shot, I got the distinct impression there was an edit. The wide angle view was never used again - so why was it there at all? Answer - it was simply misdirection. We know that most of the show is live (because we see the Lotto draw taking place over on BBC1) and we've seen Derren and a handheld cameraman in an otherwise empty studio; the unsuspecting viewer will naturally associate those two things and get the impression that what they've seen is the real set-up. In fact, everything up to and including the wide shot was prerecorded; it was only when it cut back to the "handheld" shot that we went live. What appeared to be handheld footage was actually shot with a mounted and locked-off camera; the transmitted picture was somewhat smaller than the full camera image to allow the digital wobble to be introduced.

Derren moved over to the stand with the balls, then back to the TV screen. At this point the split screen was introduced - the left hand side was either prerecorded, or a digital freeze frame captured at that moment. While Derren continued broadcasting live on the right hand side, one of his production team would have been assembling the required balls into numerical order on the rack as they were drawn and then had a few seconds at the end to clear the area before the split screen was removed. It's basically a modern variant of the old trick you see in heist movies where bank robbers fool the CCTV surveillance camera by placing a photo of the empty room in front of the camera. Once the split screen was dissolved at the end, the camera was unlocked allowing it to zoom in on Derren as he turned the balls round.

To Matt and anyone else who feels this is not Derren's "normal" area of skill: Derren is a magician. Like all magicians, he uses a wide range of techniques, including lying to the audience about what he's doing and how. The "mind control" element is actually a very small part of his act, and often he uses conventional conjuring techniques to achieve what appears to be a "mind control" stunt simply to throw the audience off the scent and create more mystique about his skills. Remember his standard introductory spiel to his TV shows: "I achieve all the results you'll see using a combination of magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship." In last night's trick, the latter two techniques were to the fore. To say that anyone could have done it is to miss the point. Remember, Derren doesn't just perform his stunts, he designs them as well. He (and no doubt Andy Nyman, his usual accomplice) will have been planning and rehearsing this for ages, working out how best to present the trick and what extra little misdirectional cheats to add in to better fool the audience. For instance, all the stuff about only being able to show a couple of minutes of the BBC coverage "for legal reasons" was bollocks, to give a plausible explanation of why the TV wasn't already on at the start of the show. (Obviously it couldn't be, as that first bit wasn't live.) Likewise, the rather abrupt "we've run out of time" ending, so the audience would more readily accept the jump straight to the end title card - conveniently avoiding reverting to the wide shot as might have been expected, which would have required a cut from the live footage back to a pre-recorded shot, and one the audience would have been more likely to spot. All in all, a very meticulously planned and rehearsed sequence of shots was designed to look rough and ready. That's all part of Derren's skill, as is the showmanship involved in distracting us from what's going on with nonsense about studying the Lottery for the past year and high level meetings with Camelot.

As other people have said, I have no doubt that the explanation of last night's stunt will form a very small part of Friday's show and that you'll be left with more things unexplained than explained.

I can't comment on Rosemary's feeling that one of Derren's hands was oddly obscured as I didn't record the show and can't look again to check. I thought he was simply using one hand to hold the rather unwieldy piece of card that he was writing the numbers on, but who knows.

Edit: forgot to say that all of the above is only my theory as to how it was done - I may of course be completely wrong. But I bet I'm not. 8-)
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Chris Corby »

You are right Phil.

A clever illuison, and all will be revealed on Friday (he has form for explaining his tricks when he promises to do so), but these are facts:

1) Chances of predicting the right six numbers: 14 million to 1;
2) Previous draws have no relevance to the next draw, so no "preparation for a year studying draws";
3) He said he could not show us the numbers before the draw as the BBC has copyright over revealing the lottery numbers live. That is true but there is no copyright law that prevents you from predicting the numbers before the draw.

Conclusion: The numbers were not on the balls before the live draw.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Phil Reynolds wrote:I can't comment on Rosemary's feeling that one of Derren's hands was oddly obscured as I didn't record the show and can't look again to check. I thought he was simply using one hand to hold the rather unwieldy piece of card that he was writing the numbers on, but who knows.
Phil, he didn't write any numbers on his piece of card until after he moved away from his corner to peer at the BBC screen and read them off. He simply held it, rigidly, at exactly the right angle to completely conceal his right arm - it wasn't even possible to see whether the arm was moving or not. I don't believe that perfact angle was a coincidence, and if I'm right then maintaining the angle was another good reason for locking the camera.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

It was really no different to any other trick whereby a prediction is supposedly in view but not revealed the whole time. In fact he did the same thing himself with a couple of marketing execs designing a poster for a phony taxidermists or something. Of course he then tried to explain that by saying he'd planted suggestive imagery on their taxi route, but that was a load of bull.

There's a number of ways it could be achieved, there's absolutely no reason why the balls couldn't have LCD screens or something as Gevin suggested. However, the split screen seems more likely, especially as the balls appear perfectly level at the start of the video, but by time he goes for the reveal, the left-most one is raised significantly.

However, he's got people talking and surely guaranteed himself a much larger audience for his Friday show using this 10-minute trailer than he would have otherwise got. Smart guy.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMIzR6GNAXw&fmt=18.

Ball position changes just after 2:00 on this video. Up very slightly.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Phil Reynolds wrote:I can't comment on Rosemary's feeling that one of Derren's hands was oddly obscured as I didn't record the show and can't look again to check.
OK, so some kind person has posted the relevant bit on YouTube. Looking again I really don't see anything suspicious going on (of the kind that Rosemary describes). He is simply holding one end of the board in his right hand and, when the draw starts, he shuts up and stands still; at this point his right hand and arm happen to be concealed by his body, but that's pure coincidence. If you disagree, can you offer a plausible alternative to my explanation of how the trick was done?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Jon Corby wrote:Ball position changes just after 2:00 on this video. Up very slightly.
Yep. Split screen - no longer in doubt.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Phil Reynolds wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:Ball position changes just after 2:00 on this video. Up very slightly.
Yep. Split screen - no longer in doubt.
Before anyone else points it out, it's "slightly" up when viewing from the longer range camera angle, and "significantly" when you see it in close up :P
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matthew Green »

Wow you guys, I just assumed he used NLP to guess what the numbers would be. I didnt think of all these other things.

Is there anything more tragic than people all over the internet trying to 'crack' his secrets? The bottom line is, if he wanted to, he could make any single one of you eat your own fingers and enjoy it.
If I suddenly have a squirming baby on my lap it probably means that I should start paying it some attention and stop wasting my time messing around on a Countdown forum
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Matthew Green wrote:Is there anything more tragic than people all over the internet trying to 'crack' his secrets?
I think it's natural curiosity to try and work out how it's done :?

I'd say it's more tragic trying to shoehorn offensive remarks about rape and paedophilia into almost every thread on a Countdown forum to try and get some kind of reaction. But that's just my opinion.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon Corby wrote:I'd say it's more tragic trying to shoehorn offensive remarks about rape and paedophilia into almost every thread on a Countdown forum to try and get some kind of reaction. But that's just my opinion.
YOU RAPED FATHER CHRISTMAS WHO DIDN'T EXIST TO BE RAPED
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Michael Wallace wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:I'd say it's more tragic trying to shoehorn offensive remarks about rape and paedophilia into almost every thread on a Countdown forum to try and get some kind of reaction. But that's just my opinion.
YOU RAPED FATHER CHRISTMAS WHO DIDN'T EXIST TO BE RAPED
And touched his sack.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon O'Neill »

The bonus ball not counting gives whoever the ball-changer is a bit of extra time to put them up and then run away.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon O'Neill wrote:The bonus ball not counting gives whoever the ball-changer is a bit of extra time to put them up and then run away.
Yeah, good point. After the sixth main ball drops, Derren stands intently watching and doing nothing for a good 10 seconds while the bonus ball comes out, before muttering that he's not concerned with the bonus ball. All in all, his assistant has nearly 25 seconds in which to do the necessary.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Matthew Green wrote:Is there anything more tragic than people all over the internet trying to 'crack' his secrets?
Ooh, let's see, there are earthquakes, wars, incurable diseases, poverty... but no, I guess you're right, nothing is more tragic than people harmlessly enjoying a bit of intellectual stimulation.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Phil Reynolds wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:The bonus ball not counting gives whoever the ball-changer is a bit of extra time to put them up and then run away.
Yeah, good point. After the sixth main ball drops, Derren stands intently watching and doing nothing for a good 10 seconds while the bonus ball comes out, before muttering that he's not concerned with the bonus ball. All in all, his assistant has nearly 25 seconds in which to do the necessary.
I think the reason that he mentions two cameras at the start is because one of the cameras will reveal what happened to the balls, and when, on friday
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Phil Reynolds wrote: Yep. Split screen - no longer in doubt.
Longer in doubt.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Marc Meakin wrote:I think the reason that he mentions two cameras at the start is because one of the cameras will reveal what happened to the balls, and when, on friday
No, the reason he mentions the two cameras is to reinforce the two crucial lies: (a) that the camera doing the close-up is handheld and (b) that, apart from him and the cameramen, there is no one else in the studio. In order to show us the bigger picture on Friday, he doesn't need to tell us on Wednesday what cameras there are. In fact, for the live part of last night's show, he was probably surrounded by cameras.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Marc Meakin wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:The bonus ball not counting gives whoever the ball-changer is a bit of extra time to put them up and then run away.
Yeah, good point. After the sixth main ball drops, Derren stands intently watching and doing nothing for a good 10 seconds while the bonus ball comes out, before muttering that he's not concerned with the bonus ball. All in all, his assistant has nearly 25 seconds in which to do the necessary.
I think the reason that he mentions two cameras at the start is because one of the cameras will reveal what happened to the balls, and when, on friday
I would actually be quite surprised if he reveals anything about the actual mechanics of this illusion on Friday. Let's face it, no matter what the trick actually is it's not gonna require an hour's worth of explanation. Friday's show will be another hour of tricks linked to the theme, or maybe some more shenanigans based around the actual numbers to try and make it look like he knew all along, or... well, god knows. We'll all be watching though, so last night's show did its job!
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Jon Corby wrote:I would actually be quite surprised if he reveals anything about the actual mechanics of this illusion on Friday. Let's face it, no matter what the trick actually is it's not gonna require an hour's worth of explanation.
The show will cover a whole load of stuff, not just the Lottery stunt. As it's such a basic trick, I'll be surprised if he doesn't give it away. As he says in his book, Tricks of the Mind:
I am often dishonest in my techniques, but always honest about my dishonesty. As I say in each show, 'I mix magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship'. I happily admit cheating, as it's all part of the game. I hope some of the fun for the viewer comes from not knowing what's real and what isn't. I am an entertainer first and foremost
As you rightly say, the Lottery stunt was essentially just a gimmick, to get people talking (and look how successful it's been) and, more importantly, watching the show on Friday, where there'll be genuinely baffling stuff that he doesn't explain.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by M. George Quinn »

Jon Corby wrote:It was really no different to any other trick whereby a prediction is supposedly in view but not revealed the whole time.
From a spectators point of view yes but the methodology must be different. I could take a card from a sealed envelope with the winning lottery numbers on it but I couldn't do it with my balls on show.
matt wrote:Why on earth would HE type them into a remote printer?
This was my point about why it won't be some ball-printing machine - it wouldn't require Derren at all (unless he's recently picked up an engineering/compsci degree to help out with it). If it were the case, the show could have been fronted equally well by Richard Madeley, a digestive, or the entire cast of Hollyoaks, albeit with slightly less dramatic tension.
I don't think that is how it was done but I think the rule of thumb is you can do it what ever way possible and because it's HIM doing it you will assume he's doing it via a clever method not a printer. It requires Derren to sell you the fact he's a freaky genius while his printer works away.

I like the split screen idea and am 50% sold on it.

George
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

M. George Quinn wrote:I like the split screen idea and am 50% sold on it.
If you look carefully here, you may just be able to spot it.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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The split screen method doesn't really impress me. I have to say that I can't get excited by the possibility that this was just trick photography.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Gavin Chipper wrote:The split screen method doesn't really impress me. I have to say that I can't get excited by the possibility that this was just trick photography.
Given that the alternative is that Derren Brown really can predict the future, what were you expecting?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:The split screen method doesn't really impress me. I have to say that I can't get excited by the possibility that this was just trick photography.
Given that the alternative is that Derren Brown really can predict the future, what were you expecting?
Dunno really, but sometimes when you hear how a trick is done you think "Ah, that's clever". Other times you think "well whatever". When I see tricks on television, I often think "well they could have done that using trick photography but I hope not, because that would just be shit and a bit pointless."
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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M. George Quinn wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:It was really no different to any other trick whereby a prediction is supposedly in view but not revealed the whole time.
From a spectators point of view yes but the methodology must be different. I could take a card from a sealed envelope with the winning lottery numbers on it but I couldn't do it with my balls on show.
Sure. I don't really know what I'm talking about. I love magic and hate knowing how tricks are done, so I don't know how those other types of trick I've referenced are done anyway. The point usually is "Derren is only really doing the same tricks as everyone else, but somehow he's got people believing that he doesn't cheat and therefore everything he does is with clever mind manipulation and shit".

Edit: This webpage pretty much covers everything I think.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Gavin Chipper wrote:[S]ometimes when you hear how a trick is done you think "Ah, that's clever". Other times you think "well whatever". When I see tricks on television, I often think "well they could have done that using trick photography but I hope not, because that would just be shit and a bit pointless."
The more I learn about magic, the more I realise that by far the majority of tricks fall into the "is that it?" category when they're explained, which is a major reason why magicians generally guard their secrets so closely. Derren has said that the theme of The Events is misdirection. I'm hoping that, once he's revealed how the Lottery stunt was done in tomorrow's show, he'll use it as a springboard for some thought-provoking examination of what misdirection can achieve, in much the same way that The System - which was ostensibly about predicting the winners of racehorses - gave him an opportunity to talk about perception, the misleading effects of confirmation bias and how it can support irrational beliefs like spiritualism.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if he doesn't make at least passing reference tomorrow to all the internet debate today about how it was done, which he's probably been gleefully monitoring, and how some of it demonstrates just how credulous some people are.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon Corby wrote:Edit: This webpage pretty much covers everything I think.
That guy's a genius.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Phil Reynolds wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:Edit: This webpage pretty much covers everything I think.
That guy's a genius.
All I did was post a link, but thanks.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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............. and have a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqAt2akPHJ8




... see, the trick isn't even expensive! This bloke does it at home!
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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The explanation looks pretty good. I think a few magicians will be slightly concerned about the use of trick photography - it is not really considered "the done thing". But I suppose Blaine and Copperfield have done it as well... And DB is honest about being dishonest - he doesn't claim to be a psychic or anything like that. I doubt he will replicate the effect on his stage show!
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Chris Corby wrote:............. and have a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqAt2akPHJ8

... see, the trick isn't even expensive! This bloke does it at home!
Oh yeah I meant to post that one too - I saw that yesterday morning and was very impressed, considering he'd have only had hours since the broadcast to put it together.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Bayfield »

I'm a fan of Derren Brown - I think he's a fantastic entertainer/showman, with an imaginative team behind him. I'm somewhat disappointed if the Lottery trick has used the split screen, as that doesn't seem to be Derren's normal style. However, as a 10-minute trailer and advert for his new series, it's certainly raised public awareness.

I have always been impressed by the recordings of Derren's stage shows which I have seen on TV, and have almost invariably marvelled "how on earth is he doing that?". However, I got a cheap ticket to see his Enigma show earlier this year, and I was rather disappointed. Judge for yourself if and when the show is televised, but some of the tricks used such simple sleight-of-hand or memory techniques, that even without a great knowledge of "magic", I was fairly sure I knew how they were achieved. (Or at least I knew how I could achieve similar, if I had the same incredible memory, dexterity and misdirection skills that Derren has developed.) It did take away some of my enjoyment from the show.

Having said that, I'm looking forward to tonight's Event...
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Wait for tonight. It is because he has used the split screen technique that he will confess all and therefore demonstrate it is impossible to predict the lottery numbers - it has to be a trick. Other "confessions" of the past where he was shown tossing a coin and getting heads ten times in a row had him revealing he took days to do it, being filmed continually, and when it finally happened just used that minute of film. Also, the horse racing programme where the woman won a fortune on re-investing her winnings for each race, finally revealing that over a thousand people had taken part and she was featured as she was the most successful. So, when he uses trickery he confesses after the event, but for other feats involving his skills, he rightly keeps quiet.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Chris Corby wrote:Other "confessions" of the past where he was shown tossing a coin and getting heads ten times in a row had him revealing he took days to do it, being filmed continually, and when it finally happened just used that minute of film.
I've said before on here that I don't believe that for a second either. The screen was split in two (not invisibly this time!) and we saw him tossing in one side and the result in the other. There was no reason whatsoever why they couldn't just splice 10 head tosses into the second half. It's ludicrous to imagine him doing it for no reason whatsoever really.

Wednesday night's trick probably backs this up.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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The coin-tossing was said to have taken "over 9 hours", rather than days, so in that case, I have no great reason to disbelieve that that footage was genuine - and even if it were faked, it was simply included to prove a mathematical point. I'm sure that Brown would have known that the expected number of flips T to obtain N heads in a row, is 2 to the power (N+1), subtract 2. Thus, for ten heads in a row, the expected number of flips T would be 2046. Assuming that Brown can flip a coin, on average, 4 times a minute over a long period, the expected time to get 10 heads in a row would be roughly 8.5 hours. That's probably a reasonable amount of time that Brown would be prepared to spend, to obtain genuine footage.

Of course, Brown might have been unlucky with his flipping, and in reality, he may have tossed for days without getting 10 heads in a row. But I'm sure he was prepared to adjust his show - or cheat - if he really couldn't achieve the result fairly.

(I'm sure there's a joke here about Brown being a formidable tosser...)
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Kevin Thurlow wrote:I think a few magicians will be slightly concerned about the use of trick photography - it is not really considered "the done thing". But I suppose Blaine and Copperfield have done it as well... And DB is honest about being dishonest
Quite. I felt totally let down (no pun intended) by David Blaine's "levitation" effect in his Street Magic programme because it was genuinely dishonest - the spectacular effect we were seeing on TV was not what the audience in front of him were seeing. If Derren Brown had done that, he'd have come clean and used it to show how gullible people are.

Has anyone else here ever been "hypnotised"? I have, and found it fascinating, but it wasn't until 18 years later when I read Derren Brown's book that I was able to confirm that my experience was not untypical.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Phil Reynolds wrote:Has anyone else here ever been "hypnotised"? I have, and found it fascinating, but it wasn't until 18 years later when I read Derren Brown's book that I was able to confirm that my experience was not untypical.
Kinda, I "have", although I was a slightly drunk 16/17 year old or so at a party with much older people, and just went along with it for the laughs really. And then of course afterwards you can't really say that because you look a bit silly.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon Corby wrote:Kinda, I "have", although I was a slightly drunk 16/17 year old or so at a party with much older people, and just went along with it for the laughs really. And then of course afterwards you can't really say that because you look a bit silly.
Mine was a similar experience- I wasn't actually hypnotised, but just felt like pissing around and putting some ties on in front of my mates. As you also say, when everyone's going around saying 'I can't believe you did that' you can't turn round and say you did it deliberately or you look like a twat. Maybe this is how a lot of people get 'hypnotised'- I know a lot of hypnotists bring up about 20 people, do a 'trick' and then just look for the most suggestive or extroverted people who'd be most likely to go along with it and whittle it down.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Who's to say that isn't what hypnosis really is? Read A Trick of the Mind. It's all about conformity.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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*clucks like a chicken*
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon O'Neill wrote:Who's to say that isn't what hypnosis really is? Read A Trick of the Mind. It's all about conformity.
I'm guessing by "not really hypnotised" Jeff meant "not in a trance" or some such. But yes, as Derren says in the book (which is actually called Tricks of the Mind BTW) the term hypnosis isn't properly defined and really covers a ragbag of mental states from "relaxed and suggestible" to "going along with it for a laugh".
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