Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon Corby
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Mark James wrote:
Jon Corby wrote: Head enters the bowl at the bottom, turns on its side... to another head.
Sorry Jon. As much as I agree that Derren is full of shit when he says all his disclaimers, I'm not seeing what you're seeing in the video. It ends up as heads sure but I can't fully make out it being heads as it enters the bowl. I'm not saying he didn't use a two headed coin I just don't think this video shows it. Camera frame rates being what they are might not fully pick up the coins movement either. I'd stick with the changing dates on the coin ahead of the video as the damning evidence.
That gif isn't the clearest, I'll grant you - but I had hoped there was enough there to illustrate it. I possibly made it a bit too small, and I was really unsure what speed to choose - slow lets you see each frame clearly, but like you say you don't get the impression that you're necessarily seeing the whole story if the frames don't flow into each other quickly enough.

Here's all 7 frames in a larger size:

Frame 1
Frame 2
Frame 3
Frame 4
Frame 5
Frame 6
Frame 7

so you can load them into whatever you like and study them individually or animate them at different speeds, whatever. Frame 1 very clearly shows the coin entering the shot showing a head. Frame 2 still has the head showing, but it's starting to turn over, Frame 3 shows the coin virtually entirely on its side, Frame 4 clearly shows another head after the turn. From then on the coin slides up the side of the bowl and comes to a rest. There's no chance that we're missing any movement of the coin, you can see its whole path if you play the frames sped up (or, indeed, just go to 4OD and watch that segment of the show - the whole coin tossing thing starts about 10 minutes in, and that's toss number 7).

It's perhaps worth noting that there is hardly any movement of the coin once it comes into shot in the bowl in any of the tosses, and I'm sure this is no accident - I'm positive the way he tosses the coin and the shape of the bowl is deliberate to avoid this. I imagine a straight-edged container (which would do the job of catching a coin just as well) would be prone to turning the coin over once it hits the bottom or the side, which obviously wouldn't do. Maybe you'd like to see more of the coin tosses slowed down to illustrate this? - I do accept that I'm not looking at this frame-by-frame toss in isolation, so I've got plenty of assurance that we're not losing anything because of the frame rate, and that the coin isn't flipping out all over the place at great speed once it his the bowl. I have realised though that this:
Jon Corby wrote:And as I say it was only on the 7th toss that I could catch the head turning over - suggesting that it wouldn't have been much more effort to do a run of ten spins which stood up to even frame-by-frame scrutiny.
was possibly a stupid thing to say, as it pretty much assumes that they just had one shot at it. Maybe it's no accident that the footage almost stands up to close scrutiny, perhaps they did multiple takes and pored over the frame-by-frame breakdown and this was the one that came out on top. Hell, maybe they spent 9 hours doing that :P
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Mark James wrote:
Jon Corby wrote: Head enters the bowl at the bottom, turns on its side... to another head.
Sorry Jon. As much as I agree that Derren is full of shit when he says all his disclaimers, I'm not seeing what you're seeing in the video. It ends up as heads sure but I can't fully make out it being heads as it enters the bowl. I'm not saying he didn't use a two headed coin I just don't think this video shows it. Camera frame rates being what they are might not fully pick up the coins movement either. I'd stick with the changing dates on the coin ahead of the video as the damning evidence.
I agree you can't fully make it out, but these are the two tails sides of 10 pence pieces currently in circulation:
Image
It's clearly neither of those.

Don't they say in science always go for the simplest explanation? :lol:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Michael Wallace »

Yeah, what Lesley said. Particularly considering that, as a 2004 coin, it should be the lion design, which is the more distinctive of the two. I reckon Corby should go to the press with this, maybe the Sun would pay a few quids for it. (Maybe.)
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Michael Wallace wrote:I reckon Corby should go to the press with this, maybe the Sun would pay a few quids for it. (Maybe.)
MAGICIAN USES TRICK COIN TO PERFORM TRICK - pages 4,5,6,7,10 & 11.

Hmm, I don't really see it. The point, as ever, is that Derren is a magician, he does tricks. Even when he appears to be doing something genuine, he probably isn't. When he explains that he did something and it sounds the slightest bit outlandish, he probably didn't. And then he puts out rubbish statements trying to reinforce his lies, and people go "see, he wouldn't be able to say that if it wasn't true, lawyers etc". It's irritating when you give somebody a perfectly good explanation for something, and they just go "yeah.... but Derren wouldn't do that. It's not his style." And then the "he's always honest about his dishonesty" line, gah. The coin one is one that comes up a lot, I'll say "I really doubt he did do that" and it'll be countered with "why not? He stood tossing a coin for 9 hours just to get 80 seconds of footage".
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Lesley Hines »

You missed page 3. Trina (19) from Essex, will be pictured with a coin to give her insightful and relevant opinion. In the online version she will probably doing her own disappearing tricks with it.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Lesley Hines wrote:You missed page 3. Trina (19) from Essex, will be pictured with a coin to give her insightful and relevant opinion. In the online version she will probably doing her own disappearing tricks with it.
It could feature Trina with Poppy (18) from Brighton, and they could be using a double-headed one.



Coin, that is, obviously.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Michael Wallace »

"Trina (19) was shocked to learn that Derren had been using a trick coin in one of his shows. "I am reminded of the quote by economist Adam Smith: "There is no art which one government sooner learns of another than that of draining money from the pockets of the people."""

(When we rescue a copy of the Sun from the Tube, we only ever read the letters page and what the page 3 girl has to say. I absolutely adore the frequency with which they come up with some quote from someone-or-other as that is apparently the only way to sound clever. Although once one of them somehow shoehorned in a comment about the queen's gambit in chess.)

And yes, I wasn't being entirely serious in my suggestion :P Although it is a bit frustrating that virtually any good criticism of Derren Brown tends to get met with "YES HE'S A MAGICIAN" thus deflecting any valid point about how it undermines other things or whatever. Quite clever, really.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Michael Wallace wrote:Although it is a bit frustrating that virtually any good criticism of Derren Brown tends to get met with "YES HE'S A MAGICIAN" thus deflecting any valid point about how it undermines other things or whatever. Quite clever, really.
Stuff like "Messiah" is particularly bad, in that he's supposedly debunking psychics etc, yet still misleading the viewer. There's a section where some woman is drawing pictures in an adjacent room with just an audio link, and Derren pretty much guesses them all spot on. One bit that is repeated near the end is how he says to her "just think of something simple, don't go overboard... just let the image sail into your mind" or something stupid like that, and then it turns out she drew a sailboat. So you're supposed to think "oh yeah, I see how he did that, it's all suggestion and that innit" and think you're all clever for spotting it. But if you watch it again the shot zooms off Derren's face, and those lines sound different to his voice before and after. It's blatantly dubbed in after.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon Corby wrote:Stuff like "Messiah" is particularly bad, in that he's supposedly debunking psychics etc, yet still misleading the viewer. There's a section where some woman is drawing pictures in an adjacent room with just an audio link, and Derren pretty much guesses them all spot on. One bit that is repeated near the end is how he says to her "just think of something simple, don't go overboard... just let the image sail into your mind" or something stupid like that, and then it turns out she drew a sailboat. So you're supposed to think "oh yeah, I see how he did that.
Yeah, stuff like that is annoying. He did it in the recent show, following a guy around supposedly with the goal of implanting the idea of The Verve's song "the Drugs Don't Work", yet any magician will tell you that's all bullshit. In fact I'm pretty sure Derren's said it's bullshit and yet he continues to do it in his shows.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

So... did anybody watch Apocalypse?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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So... did anybody watch Apocalypse?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Mark James »

Didn't see all of it but what I did see I didn't like. And when I say I didn't like it I don't mean in a it's not a good tv show way, it does make me wanna see what happens in the end but I'm getting sick of the premise of these types of shows he's doing where he's going to change someone's life. I find it a bit condescending. Plus I find it hard to believe the guy doesn't suspect that the apocalypse is not genuine but he's just playing along in the way people who are hypnotised do.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:So... did anybody watch Apocalypse?
I watched it but since I've been convinced that most of what he does is complete bollocks and dishonesty, I didn't enjoy it as much as I might have done previously.

(That's not to say I'm going as far as you in saying that all hypnotism is acting though.)
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Gavin Chipper wrote: (That's not to say I'm going as far as you in saying that all hypnotism is acting though.)
I wouldn't say all of it is. There is therapeutic hypnosis but stage hypnosis essentially is just getting people to play along. There is a hypnotic state that the hypnotist puts you in to make you more suggestible but deep down you still know you're playing along. It's not mind control.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Some of the things the "hypnotised" guy did were completely of his own accord and I would never have done them. Who wakes up in hospital and investigates immediately?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Michael Wallace »

Just watched it. An enjoyable enough romp, although I really don't know what to make of the whole stooge/fake debate. Apparently there were some allegations doing the rounds that he was registered with some acting company/website, with details mysteriously changing after it was brought up, but I can't see Channel 4 taking the risk of using an 'actual' actor, given how strenuously they deny that they do (I mean, I assume that would get them in some real trouble, beyond just damage to reputation or whatever, and it really would be quite hard to keep under wraps). That said, I found loads of his reactions to be inconsistent with what I would expect of someone suddenly finally finding themselves in a zombie apocalypse (but obviously citation needed, etc.). Also, why did there even need to be zombies?

What I would be interested to know about are the legal implications of something like this. Could you really get someone to consent (in vague terms) to something that seems so likely to carry risks of mental health issues later? My instinct would be no, but then again you can quite legally go and watch a really scary film, or do a parachute jump, so maybe the law doesn't really care that much.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Michael Wallace wrote:Also, why did there even need to be zombies?
I would guess to serve as a continual reminder that this was all part of some ludicrous Derren Brown game. I make no apologies for quoting myself from digitalspy:
Imagine for a second that somebody approaches you with a view to playing a prank on a family member, somebody you love dearly and care about. What they want to do is pretend for weeks in advance that there's some kind of party where loads of their friends and family are present. However, on the day when they arrive they'll find a very fresh crime scene, some kind of massive terrorist explosion has gone off at the venue, utterly razing the place to the ground. There's a good chance that it will appear that loads of people they care about have been killed or very badly injured, or at the very least they'll be terrified and separated from each other in what is just an unthinkably hideous situation... but don't worry, after a couple of days we'll reveal to them that it was all just a joke. What kind of absolutely sick individual would ever think that was a good idea? Well, apparently all of Steve's family and friends. In fact, you probably need to multiply that by 1000, and we've got something close to our zombie apocalypse, haven't we?

Or... is it actually a fact that a zombie apocalypse is so ludicrously absurd that it isn't actually similar to my more "real world" scenario - it's just too ridiculous for anyone to think it's possibly real?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

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Jon Corby wrote:Imagine for a second that somebody approaches you with a view to playing a prank on a family member, somebody you love dearly and care about. What they want to do is pretend for weeks in advance that there's some kind of party where loads of their friends and family are present. However, on the day when they arrive they'll find a very fresh crime scene, some kind of massive terrorist explosion has gone off at the venue, utterly razing the place to the ground. There's a good chance that it will appear that loads of people they care about have been killed or very badly injured, or at the very least they'll be terrified and separated from each other in what is just an unthinkably hideous situation... but don't worry, after a couple of days we'll reveal to them that it was all just a joke. What kind of absolutely sick individual would ever think that was a good idea? Well, apparently all of Steve's family and friends. In fact, you probably need to multiply that by 1000, and we've got something close to our zombie apocalypse, haven't we?

Or... is it actually a fact that a zombie apocalypse is so ludicrously absurd that it isn't actually similar to my more "real world" scenario - it's just too ridiculous for anyone to think it's possibly real?
This
Michael Wallace wrote: What I would be interested to know about are the legal implications of something like this. Could you really get someone to consent (in vague terms) to something that seems so likely to carry risks of mental health issues later?
And this.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Michael Wallace wrote:What I would be interested to know about are the legal implications of something like this. Could you really get someone to consent (in vague terms) to something that seems so likely to carry risks of mental health issues later? My instinct would be no, but then again you can quite legally go and watch a really scary film, or do a parachute jump, so maybe the law doesn't really care that much.
Do you think scary films (even if they're really scary) and parachute jumps are on the same level? (Well, the parachute jump will be on the same level eventually.)
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

I could have written this myself. Interesting testimony from the anonymous contributors (*laced with the concession that I'm obviously only accepting them because they support my view!)
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Mark James »

Nice one Jon. Enjoyed that.

There's a quote from one of the participants where he says "I didn't feel hypnotised but I went along with it". Here's the thing: That is being hypnotised. There is no feeling. People expect it to be like a drug induced trance or something. It's not. All it is is getting you to go along with it. If you do, you were successfully hypnotised.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Posting this up here, scraped from the football365 forum:
The below might of interest to some. By a chap I know who went along and ended up becoming an extra. He has allowed me to re-post it.
Derren Brown Apocalypse

I decided to write this for anyone who wanted a bit more detail on exactly how I got involved, what went on and my thoughts on the legitimacy of the project.
It started about 6 months ago, he sent out a tweet saying something like ‘If you would like to be a part of my latest project apply here…’ which I did, it was mostly just entering contact details but it also asked about your best and worst character traits and your fears.

I received a call about a week later, from the Derren Brown team, and the guy asked me a bit more about my negative traits (I said I was lazy, greedy and my own worst enemy) and my fears (ventriloquist dummies) and asked me to attend the first stage in London that Sunday.

This was the bit you saw briefly on TV, me looking around etc. It lasted a good 3 hours I would say, it began by a guy (known to Derren) trying different hypnotic techniques on the room as a whole and seeing who was more susceptible, the final one was trying to lock everyones hands together (you had to put them together as if doing a volleyball serve and he was saying how they are moulding together like steel blah blah) it worked on about 20 people or so better than others (there were about 100 there) and they split the room in two, those it did work on and those it didn’t.

Those it didn’t basically became the audience, as he tried other hypnosis on the others. Stunts included finding an article about morale amongst teaches falling being the funniest thing they have ever heard, playing ‘singing in the rain’ and having them all dance and sing along and at one point he told them when he rings a bell they will see killer penguins flying above the hall and they had to shoot them down using the umbrellas (previously used for the singing in the rain bit)

It was this bit that Steven, the guy eventually chosen, really got noticed, he was VERY aggressive and vocal in his ‘protecting’ us, including jumping on a chair between me and another girl and physically shoving our heads down.

After it ended I spoke with him briefly asking if he remembered the penguins and he said he sort of did but he seemed a bit bewildered.
Anyway, I went home, heard nothing more and forgot about it. We were given no more information about what the project entailed, Derren was apparently away on tour and I don’t think that shot of him apparently watching from behind a tree was real.

3 months later I received a call from the Derren Brown team again, asking if I wanted to be a part of the latest show, I agreed, thinking it was something brand new. They needed us in central London that Sunday for 6am (ouch) they said they couldn’t say anything but we would be on a bus and taken to a secret location. This was not the bus he was on where the ‘meteor attack’ took place, this was all on the final day.

They filled us in on what was going on gradually through the day. We worked out ourselves that everyone there had been at the hyponosis thing. We were given simple instructions and assisted on how to behave by the 7 or 8 ‘infected’ actors you saw early on, when they went looking for the radio and found Ian.
We spent the day getting ‘made up’ which was basically them spraying fake mud and blood on us, and practising how to be ‘infected’ there was stage 1 (basically catatonic) and stage 2 (distressed, help me, go mental)

We then very silently (bear in mind we were on the same compound as him) went through our paces, we had position 1 and position 2.
This is where it gets interesting Position 1 was where you saw everyone going mad outside when the helicopter landed, this all went to plan. Then there was a cockup.

He was supposed to distract us so Ian and Leona could run through and to the copter. However she was supposed to duck into a little room so when Steven got there she wasn’t there and he had to decide to save himself or go back for her. He would then run back through us (now in position 2 inside the gate) and back to her.

However she couuldn’t get the door open so he saw her go in and hence wouldn’t leave.

Ian then came back for Steven (ruining his ‘selfish’ angle) and after speaking with Leona Steven ran and got on the chopper and left. What was said I don’t know, perhaps he said he’d get them to land inside the gates. The running back through didn’t happen, look at the footage you don’t see his face. He left on the copter so the conversation he was supposed to have with Ian must have been re-done later. The walking to Wales bit and getting the phone call must have been re-done as he had gone.

When we got back on the bus some people expressed concerns about what they were doing to him and they said he was now with his family having a party and was in great spirits that again doesn’t tally with what was shown on telly.

Now do I feel it was legit? I don’t think he was an actor. There was way too much that went on in the selection process which would just have been to convince me and about 99 other people that he wasn’t, that wouldn’t make sense. Likewise the way we had to silently move around and the cocked up finish would also suggest it was real. I’m positive though AFTER he was let in on it some stuff was re-shot.

It was a great day and we were treated very well by the producers, we were well fed and looked after and I’m glad I did it.
I assume he means Danny (the bloke with "no heart" lol) instead of Ian (the paramedic) in the last few lines. It seems to be true what he says about the "running back" shots looking dodgy, in that his head is conveniently cut off, but I don't get what this is really supposed to mean. If indeed they reshot the ending at a later time (after the zombies had gone home) where did this shot come from? And if they're reshooting an entire ending anyway, why would extra fakey shots be required?

Obviously again, anonymous testimony, so do with it as you wish.

PS. The show was terrible. The 2nd part was worse than I feared it could be, it was like a really bad school play.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

We didn't watch it, so hard to get names right, but the "main guy" (so is that Steven?) is a friend of a good friend... of one of our good friends. So I don't think it's a good enough connection to actually get real comment from him but our good friend has spoken to his good friend (who is friends with Steven) about the whole thang and so I have it on this good authority that he is definitely not an actor, and something like he felt he knew what was going on was not real but couldn't stop himself taking part, or something like that.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Matt Morrison wrote:We didn't watch it, so hard to get names right, but the "main guy" (so is that Steven?) is a friend of a good friend... of one of our good friends. So I don't think it's a good enough connection to actually get real comment from him but our good friend has spoken to his good friend (who is friends with Steven) about the whole thang and so I have it on this good authority that he is definitely not an actor, and something like he felt he knew what was going on was not real but couldn't stop himself taking part, or something like that.
Yeah, we know he's not an actor.

I would think it's fairly accurate to say that he knew full-well what was going on (otherwise your reactions might be a little more... er, extreme) but didn't want to blow it all because it ruins Derren's show, wastes everybody's time and money (in the build-up, if the theory is that they just redo it with somebody else) and blows his chance to be on TV.

I actually feel a bit sorry for Steve because, in addition to being made to look like a massively gullible gimp on TV, the scale of the whole thing actually meant that he just had to wait to be guided through the story, and so despite the show's claims that he had really learned how to be compassionate and proactive, we didn't actually see this at all. He just looked a bit wet, and was being led by a 14 year old girl right to the end. He showed no leadership (unless you count "so who's in charge now?"......50 seconds silence.... "(oh right, I guess it must be my line then) Me I suppose.") and no compassion (particularly to the zombies - the defence against "why doesn't he attack them?" seems to be "he thinks they're just infected people!" so isn't it upsetting to see these hoards of innocents, sentenced to death through no fault of their own? Nope! They're just an interactive obstacle course!) but as I say, he didn't really get the chance to because he knows he can't deviate from the planned story. Poor Steve :(

Can you ask your friend to ask their friend to ask their friend to ask Steven if it's true that he fucked off in the chopper at one point, or just in general how he thought what we saw on screen tied up with what really happened to him?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

This drug sounds like bollocks.

Edit - I said it before he did. I thought he was going to keep it "secret" until the end of the two shows.

Also, I find it weird that this plecebo can cure these skin complaints and allergies, but he didn't get into that very much. I'm allergic to cats, so is he saying I've got a mental condition?

God next week should be interesting.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Gavin Chipper wrote:This drug sounds like bollocks.
I haven't watched the show yet, but somebody on the football365 forum is mates with the "scared of heights" chap, and says he has no such fear. When pushed on the point, he posted several pre-Derren photos of him happily posing atop balconies, ledges, railings, bridges etc. :roll:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

You watching, Corby?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Graeme Cole »

Why has Derren been replaced with Matt Bayfield?

Edit: I mean really. Look.

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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Dave Preece »

I convinced my Mrs. Into believing Derren had AIDS!
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Romance isn't dead.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Dave Preece »

Not in my house!
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Did anybody watch Matt Bayfield: Infamous? It was quite enjoyable.

I think I know how he's done a couple of the bits. Confused by the Rubik's Cube one, and the psychic stuff he did must've been researched?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Jon O'Neill wrote:Did anybody watch Matt Bayfield: Infamous? It was quite enjoyable.

I think I know how he's done a couple of the bits. Confused by the Rubik's Cube one, and the psychic stuff he did must've been researched?
Yeah I watched it, it was okay - light years better than his shit TV specials have been, in that it was a proper magic show.

The Rubik Cube was just switched out surely while it was behind his back? We couldn't see what he was doing. If he's genuinely turning it behind his back, there's no reason whatsoever for US not to be able to see him doing this (and hence, if he was, we would).

Asssuming random 10 digit guy is simply a plant as well? Can't see how else that would work. I don't actually recall the specifics of how he was chosen, but the number can't be random (obviously). Also it has to be pretty well constrained. If you saw the show multiple times, you might have noticed that the "random" 10 digit number would ALWAYS have started with a 7....
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Jon Corby wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:Did anybody watch Matt Bayfield: Infamous? It was quite enjoyable.

I think I know how he's done a couple of the bits. Confused by the Rubik's Cube one, and the psychic stuff he did must've been researched?
Yeah I watched it, it was okay - light years better than his shit TV specials have been, in that it was a proper magic show.

The Rubik Cube was just switched out surely while it was behind his back? We couldn't see what he was doing. If he's genuinely turning it behind his back, there's no reason whatsoever for US not to be able to see him doing this (and hence, if he was, we would).

Asssuming random 10 digit guy is simply a plant as well? Can't see how else that would work. I don't actually recall the specifics of how he was chosen, but the number can't be random (obviously). Also it has to be pretty well constrained. If you saw the show multiple times, you might have noticed that the "random" 10 digit number would ALWAYS have started with a 7....
Yeah but I think both Rubik's cubes must have had to have been (lolgrammar) switched? And it must've been before it went behind his back? I can't work out how it would've happened with the behind-the-back switch.

Yeah the 10-digit number guy has to be a plant. OR he forgets what number he wrote down in an envelope and it gets handed back to him later, forged. The phone number woman seemed to be picked pretty specifically, so they must've just got her number from booking details maybe?

How do you think he did the psychic readings with pet names and grandparent names etc.? Because I don't think he would've gone down the Psychic Sally route of getting them to fill out questionnaires beforehand.. surely that would get out and potentially tarnish his rep?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I'll watch this soon and post the correct answers. Thank you for waiting.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Jon O'Neill wrote:Yeah but I think both Rubik's cubes must have had to have been (lolgrammar) switched? And it must've been before it went behind his back? I can't work out how it would've happened with the behind-the-back switch.
Don't see why. 5 of the 6 sides are visible on the "non-selected" one on the table, ample time for an accomplice to rig up a duplicate. How and where it gets fed to him I didn't spot (nor did I look for it) but I don't see why it's infeasible. He was stood right in front of the easel (behind which it's pretty dark), so something could have happened there. There was already a massively blates switch behind the easel earlier in the show when he wrote "FILM" on it (left hand disappeared behind it holding the enveloper and paper) :roll:
Jon O'Neill wrote:Yeah the 10-digit number guy has to be a plant. OR he forgets what number he wrote down in an envelope and it gets handed back to him later, forged. The phone number woman seemed to be picked pretty specifically, so they must've just got her number from booking details maybe?
Yeah, 10 digit number not random, not that bothered about finding out who calculates it. Dunno how they got her phone number, no idea whether there's hi-tech ways to find phones with bluetooth on and hack them, or like you say, booking details (I guess you'd still call it that evening or something to make sure she has that phone though!)
Jon O'Neill wrote:How do you think he did the psychic readings with pet names and grandparent names etc.?
Dunno. I thought Gibraltar/Monkey/Grandma guy was quite weird in that he seemed to almost want to rush to the "Gibraltar" answer as if he knew that's what the match would be, even though it wasn't the answer to question he was actually being asked (he corrected himself to 'Spain'). Will have a think about this though - it's not cold reading, and even research wouldn't necessarily narrow in on that particular story, he could've said anything.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Jon O'Neill wrote:Because I don't think he would've gone down the Psychic Sally route of getting them to fill out questionnaires beforehand.. surely that would get out and potentially tarnish his rep?
Hmm... again, second-hand testimony, but a couple of people on the football forum have said this is what happens (girl at work got called up, girlfriend went up etc). They fill out stuff backstage. (And this is on a 99%-pro-Derren forum, I get a terrible time on there trying to explain. Football fans are fucking thick I guess.) I will press for more details, because there must still be some kind of "trick" for them to appreciate, surely? (not sure they actually looked that impressed though actually, come to think of it. Might watch again.) I'm thinking along the lines of maybe they write, say, 3 things, but on separate bits of card, and they're all thrown in a bowl? So the trick to them is just that he's matched up the 3 bits of info together, and to the right person? Dunno.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:There was already a massively blates switch behind the easel earlier in the show when he wrote "FILM" on it (left hand disappeared behind it holding the enveloper and paper) :roll:
I'm just watching this now on 4OD. I presume you're talking about the bit at about 12:06. But I don't see what that can achieve. He's already said the word "FILM" by that point. How do you think this was done?

Also, just watching the psychic medium bit and he gets them to check he's not wearing an earpiece. Well, what it that thing that goes round the back of his neck and ends up by his ear exactly?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:There was already a massively blates switch behind the easel earlier in the show when he wrote "FILM" on it (left hand disappeared behind it holding the enveloper and paper) :roll:
I'm just watching this now on 4OD. I presume you're talking about the bit at about 12:06. But I don't see what that can achieve. He's already said the word "FILM" by that point. How do you think this was done?
Guy writes FILM. He has a completely free choice of word.

He writes it onto paper provided by an usher and seals it in an envelope. Derren's team have the word now (plethora of ways, don't know which - impression pad most likely).

Meanwhile, Derren on stage reveals he predicted the dude's word earlier, and removes his jacket to reveal an envelope. He invites a different guy onto the stage, and together they open the envelope and begin to read together. Other guy can see the whole page though, so we are assured that everything is above board. Derren has by now been notified of dude's word (again, no idea how, earpiece, secret autocue off stage, morse code clicker in his pants, who cares) so he breaks at this point to write the word on the easel. FILM. He writes it in big dramatic violent strokes, so we're fully engaged in him doing this, and NOT noticing that his left hand holding the envelope and paper has disappeared into the dark abyss behind the easel.

Here he has switched the paper for one prepped by his team with FILM filled in in the necessary places, and we carry on reading. But how can that be, the other guy was looking down the page the whole time. They start reading again, and... oh, look, we've got to the end of that side (of completely fixed waffle) so let's flip over....
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:Yeah I watched it, it was okay - light years better than his shit TV specials have been, in that it was a proper magic show.
The thing about Derren is that even if he might not have explicitly stated it at the start of this show, it's sort of implied from what he claims he does generally that everything he does is "mental magic", getting everything from reading people's reactions etc., rather than sleight of hand or any other standard techniques. So there's still a whiff of dishonestly about this.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:Yeah I watched it, it was okay - light years better than his shit TV specials have been, in that it was a proper magic show.
The thing about Derren is that even if he might not have explicitly stated it at the start of this show, it's sort of implied from what he claims he does generally that everything he does is "mental magic", getting everything from reading people's reactions etc., rather than sleight of hand or any other standard techniques. So there's still a whiff of dishonestly about this.
Sure, that wasn't really a comment on that side of things, just that there's something there to enjoy in these shows. I mean, if he's doing proper magic tricks and misdirecting with psychological flannel, I can still enjoy the magic tricks. Shows like Hero at 30,000ft, there's fuck all left once you've stripped away the flannel.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I think there's a new Derren Brown thing next week. I'm calling it now - stooge.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

it's "pushed over the edge" or something, "driving a normal man to do the unthinkable"

guessing it is suicide since part of the imagery had a graphic of a person freefalling
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Matt Morrison wrote:it's "pushed over the edge" or something, "driving a normal man to do the unthinkable"

guessing it is suicide
Wrong.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Gavin Chipper wrote:I think there's a new Derren Brown thing next week. I'm calling it now - stooge.
Yeah, rewound the ads in Countdown to see that. I reckon he was behind the Paris atrocities, it just got a little bit out of hand.

I'd refine "stooge" though to "massive Derren fan knowingly playing along in a fakey Derren game".
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:it's "pushed over the edge" or something, "driving a normal man to do the unthinkable"

guessing it is suicide
Wrong.
It's murder.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:it's "pushed over the edge" or something, "driving a normal man to do the unthinkable"

guessing it is suicide
Wrong.
It's murder.
He's already done that one. It's got to be worse. Fudging a numbers round? Hansfording?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:it's "pushed over the edge" or something, "driving a normal man to do the unthinkable"

guessing it is suicide
Wrong.
unnecessarily harsh. I could have googled
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Matt Morrison wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:it's "pushed over the edge" or something, "driving a normal man to do the unthinkable"

guessing it is suicide
Wrong.
unnecessarily harsh. I could have googled
What is it then ffs?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:What is it then ffs?
Murder, you cunt. Read the Radio Times like Phil Reynolds does and you'd know.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:What is it then ffs?
Murder, you cunt. Read the Radio Times like Phil Reynolds does and you'd know.
So how is that different to getting somebody to murder Stephen Fry? :roll:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:What is it then ffs?
Murder, you cunt. Read the Radio Times like Phil Reynolds does and you'd know.
So how is that different to getting somebody to murder Stephen Fry? :roll:
This is much worse. It's some guy called Stephen Fire.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Matt Morrison »

Jon Corby wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:the imagery had a graphic of a person freefalling
What is it then ffs?
The person has been pushed rather than jumped.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Matt Morrison wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:the imagery had a graphic of a person freefalling
What is it then ffs?
The person has been pushed rather than jumped.
We already saw him "make" "somebody" "shoot" Stephen Fry. So what's the difference?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Matt Morrison wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:guessing it is suicide
Wrong.
unnecessarily harsh. I could have googled
Or turned to page 33 in your copy of next week's Radio Times and read Derren's article about it. Oh hang on - for incomprehensible reasons, not everyone buys RT, do they? I keep forgetting that. :roll:

@Corby: The difference between this and the Stephen Fry "assassination" one is in the techniques DB claims to be investigating. That one was about hypnosis and suggestion; this one is apparently an exploration of the power of peer pressure.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Phil Reynolds wrote:this one is apparently an exploration of the power of peer pressure.
And the twist at the end is that Derren Brown invented beer.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Phil Reynolds wrote:this one is apparently an exploration of the power of peer pressure.
And the twist at the end is that Derren Brown invented beer.
Well, one variety of it anyway. It's called "Brown Ale". Haha, I am funny.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Did anyone watch this?
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon Corby wrote:Did anyone watch this?
Probably a few million. But yes, I did. I particularly liked the bit where the guy had to pretend to be the other guy and try and do the things that the other guy would have done. I'd say he was pretty successful. Matt Bayfield made a pretty good show there.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Events

Post by Jon Corby »

Do you think I'll enjoy it? Might check it out on catch-up on Thursday.
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