The Irish Question

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Noel Mc
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The Irish Question

Post by Noel Mc » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:51 pm

Apologies for a political post, I know they are often not the most popular.

As most of the people on here are Scottish/English/Welsh, I’m interested to know how you view NI/RoI/The North/The South, or even what you know about it.

I only ask because I find it hilarious how little coverage the affairs of here seem to get in the mainland media.

As an example, someone was shot in both legs not far from where I live last week. I imagine if that happened somewhere in England, it might get a bit more coverage.

Our assembly, which sits in Stormont has been vacant for well over a year. Again, I imagine if that was the Scots, it might get more coverage.

Brexit is the funniest though. Regardless of which way you voted, I wonder if any thought was given to the only land border the UK has with another country?

Just musings :)

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Phil Reynolds » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:34 pm


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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Zarte Siempre » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:30 am

Erm... I find myself thinking I know very little, but usually when I mention something I *do* know about it, someone else will say they don't.

So sort of... idiocy, but fractionally less idiocy than other people.

I understand why you have no assembly atm, which seems to put my understanding above most people.

I also sometimes watch The Blame Game when I can't sleep, which helps me understand things if understanding means listening to comedians take the piss out of it.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

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Mark James
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Mark James » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:24 am

If it's any consolation I probably would have said six as well and I'm Irish. You hear Ulster and you think the six counties of Northern Ireland. You forget there's three other ones in the Republic.

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Phil Reynolds » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:18 am

Mark James wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:24 am
If it's any consolation I probably would have said six as well and I'm Irish. You hear Ulster and you think the six counties of Northern Ireland. You forget there's three other ones in the Republic.
Yep, I had the phrase "the six counties" in my head when I pushed the button. Hadn't really appreciated before then that Ulster means something different. Should have got the Bushmills question though. :)

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:45 pm

I can recommend Cavan as a nice place to visit in Ulster ( one of the three in the Republic ).


On a not disimilar theme with regards news reporting, I couldn't believe the virtual news black out of all the protests etc about the Incarceration of slightly right of centre, Tommy Robinson shocked me as I remember when the Soviet Union and China suppressed news coverage I thought the people of these countries were living in a police state.
Now I know his views, hardly sit well with the BBC, but even Gerry Adams, a terrorist, no less, was allowed to be on the BBC, albeit with his voice altered to the voice or Orville ( I made that last bit up 😀).
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Jennifer Steadman » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:22 pm

Marc Meakin wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:45 pm
On a not disimilar theme with regards news reporting, I couldn't believe the virtual news black out of all the protests etc about the Incarceration of slightly right of centre, Tommy Robinson shocked me as I remember when the Soviet Union and China suppressed news coverage I thought the people of these countries were living in a police state.
Now I know his views, hardly sit well with the BBC, but even Gerry Adams, a terrorist, no less, was allowed to be on the BBC, albeit with his voice altered to the voice or Orville ( I made that last bit up 😀).
People on all parts of the political spectrum are *constantly* complaining that news organisations are biased because they don't cover a protest to do with their particular affiliation :|

Maybe it shouldn't have been 'suppressed', seeing as the reports that do seem to be about (even in The Mail) are all about police looking to arrest participants for violent conduct, while other protesters were apparently giving Nazi salutes. Your political spectrum must be pretty trippy if that's what you align with 'slightly right of centre'.

A few hundred people having a paddy because they don't understand nor care to understand how contempt of court law works isn't really primetime news to me, but I guess my priorities are borked by our prison state. Steve Bannon will enlighten me, I'm sure.
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Jennifer Steadman » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:44 pm

Noel Mc wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:51 pm
Our assembly, which sits in Stormont has been vacant for well over a year. Again, I imagine if that was the Scots, it might get more coverage.
Yep, this is completely insane. As I understand it from one of my best friends who lives over there, funding for schools etc is kind of grinding to a halt because nothing's getting done? (I may be misremembering it slightly but she definitely said something along these lines.)

I followed the NI elections last March, and found it fascinating - though at the time just thought it was a good thing cos the DUP didn't have enough MLAs to block stuff like gay marriage with Petitions of Concern? Massively enjoyed watching political pundits/gobshites belatedly falling over themselves to learn about NI's politics after our ridiculous snap election :D

When I was reading up on them last March, I think only 2 of them were in favour of NI having the same abortion laws as the rest of the UK (Greens and PBP). With the referendum result in the south, I'm interested to see if Sinn Fein or any of the other parties will advocate for it.
Brexit is the funniest though. Regardless of which way you voted, I wonder if any thought was given to the only land border the UK has with another country?
I did, but generally speaking I think even most of the obsessive Remainers had no interest in NI until it became convenient ammunition after the vote :(

Politics aside, you guys have the best accents of all time.
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Marc Meakin
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:52 pm

Jennifer Steadman wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:22 pm
Marc Meakin wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:45 pm
On a not disimilar theme with regards news reporting, I couldn't believe the virtual news black out of all the protests etc about the Incarceration of slightly right of centre, Tommy Robinson shocked me as I remember when the Soviet Union and China suppressed news coverage I thought the people of these countries were living in a police state.
Now I know his views, hardly sit well with the BBC, but even Gerry Adams, a terrorist, no less, was allowed to be on the BBC, albeit with his voice altered to the voice or Orville ( I made that last bit up 😀).
People on all parts of the political spectrum are *constantly* complaining that news organisations are biased because they don't cover a protest to do with their particular affiliation :|

Maybe it shouldn't have been 'suppressed', seeing as the reports that do seem to be about (even in The Mail) are all about police looking to arrest participants for violent conduct, while other protesters were apparently giving Nazi salutes. Your political spectrum must be pretty trippy if that's what you align with 'slightly right of centre'.

A few hundred people having a paddy because they don't understand nor care to understand how contempt of court law works isn't really primetime news to me, but I guess my priorities are borked by our prison state. Steve Bannon will enlighten me, I'm sure.
Sorry , maybe I should have used the correct emoji, I was obviously taking the piss.
I'm guessing the contempt of court is not as cut and dried as you say as he would still be locked up
As I understand it he was reading a statement made public by the BBC after the evidence had been heard and the jury was considering its verdict.

FWIW I think he is a racist provocateur, but to paraphrase someone much cleverer than me.
I may not agree with what you say but I will fight tooth and nail for your right to say it.

I always believe that it's best to ridicule people who spout shite , like Farage, Adams , Paisley etc, than to censor him and make him a hero to the disenfranchised working class right wingers
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Mark James
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Mark James » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:52 pm

Jennifer Steadman wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:22 pm
[
A few hundred people having a paddy
Unfortunate choice of phrase considering the thread topic, no? :D

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Paul Worsley » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:08 am

Mark James wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:52 pm
Jennifer Steadman wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:22 pm
[
A few hundred people having a paddy
Unfortunate choice of phrase considering the thread topic, no? :D
Are you taking the Mick?

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:30 pm

Marc Meakin wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:45 pm
I can recommend Cavan as a nice place to visit in Ulster ( one of the three in the Republic ).


On a not disimilar theme with regards news reporting, I couldn't believe the virtual news black out of all the protests etc about the Incarceration of slightly right of centre, Tommy Robinson shocked me as I remember when the Soviet Union and China suppressed news coverage I thought the people of these countries were living in a police state.
Now I know his views, hardly sit well with the BBC, but even Gerry Adams, a terrorist, no less, was allowed to be on the BBC, albeit with his voice altered to the voice or Orville ( I made that last bit up 😀).
Your'e clearly watching the wrong news, or no news at all. I saw two or three reports about protests without even trying, I barely even watch telly. As for slightly right of centre, I'm not convinced her deserves a designation (no matter how inaccurate). When he progresses from being a petty criminal with a big mouth, then maybe we can worry about whether he deserves a place on the spectrum.
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:32 pm

As for Ireland, the north needs to be kicked out of its stupor, probably by updating the GFA. Who's got enough power in the centre to get something like that going at the moment? Nobody I can see.
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Marc Meakin
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:27 am

Ian Volante wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:30 pm
Marc Meakin wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:45 pm
I can recommend Cavan as a nice place to visit in Ulster ( one of the three in the Republic ).


On a not disimilar theme with regards news reporting, I couldn't believe the virtual news black out of all the protests etc about the Incarceration of slightly right of centre, Tommy Robinson shocked me as I remember when the Soviet Union and China suppressed news coverage I thought the people of these countries were living in a police state.
Now I know his views, hardly sit well with the BBC, but even Gerry Adams, a terrorist, no less, was allowed to be on the BBC, albeit with his voice altered to the voice or Orville ( I made that last bit up 😀).
Your'e clearly watching the wrong news, or no news at all. I saw two or three reports about protests without even trying, I barely even watch telly. As for slightly right of centre, I'm not convinced her deserves a designation (no matter how inaccurate). When he progresses from being a petty criminal with a big mouth, then maybe we can worry about whether he deserves a place on the spectrum.
The only news I saw was about the skirmishes during the mass demonstrations.
When he was ( rightly or wrongly ) arrested and Jailed for contempt of court it didn't make the news at all.
The cynic in me wants to say because the subject matter was a little too sensitive for the press to report on it , rather than anything else.
As for my views on the Irish question.
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Mark James
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Mark James » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:22 am

Why should a contempt of court arrest, (which the defendant pleaded guilty to) make the news? Just because the defendant is somewhat famous and backed by a crowd of morons? There's probably loads of contempt of court cases that will never make the news. It was only the protests that made it newsworthy.

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:45 am

Mark James wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:22 am
Why should a contempt of court arrest, (which the defendant pleaded guilty to) make the news? Just because the defendant is somewhat famous and backed by a crowd of morons? There's probably loads of contempt of court cases that will never make the news. It was only the protests that made it newsworthy.
Yeah the case was only about gang raping of minors, so an everyday occurrence.
Maybe as a father , I have a different view to the Liberal Elite.
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Mark James
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Mark James » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:37 am

Yes, a case he endangered. As a father how would you have felt if his actions caused a mistrial and a bunch of gang rapists got off?

And besides. What bearing does the original case it was attached to have? He was charged with contempt of court. There's loads of contempt of court charges that won't make the news. And by news I'm assuming you mean televised news cause it was definitely reported in the newspapers. The tv news has a limited amount of time to cover things. They're not going to bother reporting on minor contempt charges, especially ones where the defendant had previously been warned for the same behaviour and pleaded guilty.

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Jennifer Steadman » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:05 am

Mark James wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:37 am
Yes, a case he endangered. As a father how would you have felt if his actions caused a mistrial and a bunch of gang rapists got off?
Yes! This!! This is why C o C law exists!!! It's not a freedom of speech thing, it's to ensure justice is served. Good luck protecting yourself with alt-right buzzwords and 'as a father' stuff when counterproductive shit like this leads to serious criminals walking free.

Robinson can't play pretend that he's a journalist and then have a cry when he breaks the absolute most basic law of court reporting.

Or were you just taking the piss again?
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:22 am

No
Not taking the piss.
But from my understanding he read out a statement , which was filmed , about the case from the BBC website
AFTER the Trial had ended and the Jury was considering its verdict.
But if this statement is not fact then I will drop the matter.
I still feel that there is a general attitude in the TV news media of doing everything in its power to avoid controversy with regards race and culture.
For fear of inciting unrest.

Oh and if it is cut and dried about his Contempt of Court conviction , which btw he disputes pleading guilty to , what basis was he granted an appeal ?
Last edited by Marc Meakin on Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Noel Mc » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:07 pm

Jennifer Steadman wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:05 am

Yes! This!! This is why C o C law exists!!!
Championship of Champions?

The alignment of Paisley and Adams with Farage made me laugh.

Paisley of old (I assume you’re talking about Sr.) obviously used to just spew a lot of hate filled bile, but in his later years, he definitely did a lot to remedy some of the ills here (albeit he was probably a catalyst for a lot of them). Best mates with a former IRA commander, madness.

Adams, again regardless of his past, did a lot to encourage the IRA in to ceasefire.

Farage is just a tit. (Although I’m happy to be corrected if he’s done anything else of note).


Our accent is also truly awful. Especially Belfast.

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:52 pm

Noel Mc wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:07 pm
Jennifer Steadman wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:05 am

Yes! This!! This is why C o C law exists!!!
Championship of Champions?

The alignment of Paisley and Adams with Farage made me laugh.

Paisley of old (I assume you’re talking about Sr.) obviously used to just spew a lot of hate filled bile, but in his later years, he definitely did a lot to remedy some of the ills here (albeit he was probably a catalyst for a lot of them). Best mates with a former IRA commander, madness.

Adams, again regardless of his past, did a lot to encourage the IRA in to ceasefire.

Farage is just a tit. (Although I’m happy to be corrected if he’s done anything else of note).


Our accent is also truly awful. Especially Belfast.
I've always liked a Belfast or a Cork accent especially a woman
Farage will go down in history as the catalyst for Brexit.
So either s hero or a double dick depending on the outcome.
Not sure what will happen as I don't have 2020 vision
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Noel Mc » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:12 pm

I do like the Cork accent, or anywhere on the west coast!

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Phil H » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:48 pm

Noel Mc wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:51 pm


Our assembly, which sits in Stormont has been vacant for well over a year. Again, I imagine if that was the Scots, it might get more coverage.
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It is always refreshing to see counter-evidence to many Scots' belief that they are the single most put-upon group of people in the UK, Western Europe, the World.

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Jennifer Steadman » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:41 pm

Marc Meakin wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:22 am
No
Not taking the piss.
But from my understanding he read out a statement , which was filmed , about the case from the BBC website
AFTER the Trial had ended and the Jury was considering its verdict.
But if this statement is not fact then I will drop the matter.
I still feel that there is a general attitude in the TV news media of doing everything in its power to avoid controversy with regards race and culture.
For fear of inciting unrest.

Oh and if it is cut and dried about his Contempt of Court conviction , which btw he disputes pleading guilty to , what basis was he granted an appeal ?
I was talking about his original contempt of court conviction in my previous reply, which is pure textbook contempt of court stuff. This is a pretty comprehensive blog about the whole thing.

Key quote is: "The arguments against both contempts centred around alleged 'procedural deficiencies'. That is to say, there was not any argument that Y-L [Yaxley-Lennon aka 'Tommy Robinson'] had not acted in a way that would amount to contempt; rather it was said that the way in which the courts had dealt with it meant that the contempts should not stand as a matter of law."

Broadcast media is bound by much stricter reporting rules than print media, given its superior reach/influence - I think the fines are far heavier for flouting the rules as well.
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:11 pm

Fascinating read.
However misguided, I can understand why he did it but not agree with the way went about it.
Reporting restrictions and anonymity of defedent's is always a difficult issue.
I think , however unless children are among the defendants or Terrorism is involved, I find it difficult to accept why reporting restrictions are in place.
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Mark James » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:29 am

Marc Meakin wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:11 pm
However misguided, I can understand why he did it but not agree with the way went about it.
What was he trying to do that you understand?

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:09 am

Name the defendants as there was little justification in keeping the defendants names secret .
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Mark James » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:14 pm

Why do you need that info before the trial is over?

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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Marc Meakin » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:28 pm

I'm guessing as I am not he, that he assumed the guilty parties name would not be known AFTER the verdict
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Re: The Irish Question

Post by Mark James » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:54 pm

That doesn't answer the question. Whether they are officially released or not after the trial why couldn't he wait until after the trial to name them? He wasn't stopped from obtaining the information, just from reporting it.

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