New fivers not meat-free

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JimBentley
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New fivers not meat-free

Post by JimBentley » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:12 pm

This story seems to be all over the place today. It would seem that a product used for ink binding on the new plastic fivers is derived from animals and this is outraging vegans, who feel that a non-animal product should have been used instead. Looking into it, the product turns out to be beef tallow, and it turns out that it's actually a by-product of all that cow-killing malarkey. It's used in lots of other industrial processes, too. Were it not used for other things, it would have to be disposed of in another way (i.e. burning it or sticking it in a landfill).

Apparently the Royal Mint have no plans to change the formulation and it will be rolled out for the new tenners and twenties too, when they become polymer notes.

I sort of understand the objection that vegans might have, but animal products are already involved in the manufacture of pretty much everything anyway; certainly anything that contains plastic or metal components. And given that people aren't just going to stop eating meat, surely using all the by-products in some way is good for the environment?

Sorry, that was a bit of a confused post. But I'd still be interested in everyone else's opinion on this burning* issue!






* although the new notes don't burn, they just melt in an intriguing manner

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Marc Meakin
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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Marc Meakin » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:42 am

I shan't be eating any then.
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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Marc Meakin » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:44 am

I shan't be eating any then.
:D l
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Jon O'Neill
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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Jon O'Neill » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:56 am

I don't have a strong view on the matter, but I have a vegan friend who apparently started the whole story:

Image

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Matt Bayfield » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:13 pm

JimBentley wrote:* although the new notes don't burn, they just melt in an intriguing manner
The lengths the Bank of England will go to, to spoil Cauty and Drummond's fun.

I'm interested to see if the Scottish banknote issuers (Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale Bank) now capitalize on what must be an opportunity to promote themselves to vegans (or other objectors to use of tallow) in England. Will we be seeing the ATMs of Scottish banks dispensing Scottish notes in England?

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:51 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote:I don't have a strong view on the matter, but I have a vegan friend who apparently started the whole story:

Image
Did he actually start the story? How did he find out?

On this generally, it's just as much a vegetarian issue as a vegan issue, because it's about dead animals. The primary difference between veganism and vegetarianism is that vegans avoid all animal products and vegetarians avoid products that have required the animal to be killed. It would be pretty arbitrary to avoid a product purely because you put it in your mouth. I mean, it makes sense from the "yuck factor" standpoint, but not from a logical or moral standpoint.

As a vegetarian myself, this isn't exactly the end of the world for me. While I tend to avoid animal products where feasible (even picking the vegan option over the merely vegetarian option, all things being equal), I'm well aware that many things have animal products in.

I think we should generally reduce our reliance on animal products and cut down on animal agriculture (which, aside from the normal moral arguments, is a large contributor to greenhouse gases), but every reduction counts, so if you reduce your intake rather than eliminate it, it's still a step in the right direction.

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Matt Morrison » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:36 pm

WHat's the screenshot about? Do we know Charlie Grosvenor or something?

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by JimBentley » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:41 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:As a vegetarian myself, this isn't exactly the end of the world for me.
This is what I was most interested in, I think. I'm not a vegetarian (I'm a very enthusiastic meat-eater) and what I was struggling to understand is quite why this was even considered a worthwhile thing for vegans and vegetarians to get worked up about. There are far worse things that go on in the whole meat industry - things that are worth getting annoyed about - than this.

Of course, you could say that it's possible to be annoyed about both large and small iniquities, but I think protesting about these incredibly minor issues paints the whole vegan/vegetarian argument in a bad light. It's a disservice to the entirely reasonable people debating for the reduction of meat-eating generally (which is entirely correct; although I eat meat, I'm not unaware of its effects on the body and realise I should eat less of it). Worse still, it allows more broad-stroke commentators to say "oh, those vegetarians, they're all mad, look what they're saying now" and suchlike.

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Marc Meakin » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:01 pm

I don't know if it is true but i read in the Scum that Hindu temples are refusing donations made with the new fiver
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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Jon O'Neill » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:05 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:I don't have a strong view on the matter, but I have a vegan friend who apparently started the whole story:

Image
Did he actually start the story? How did he find out?
He wrote to the Bank of England to make sure they weren't using tallow. And they were. Then he posted the above to Vegan UK and it got traction.
Matt Morrison wrote:WHat's the screenshot about? Do we know Charlie Grosvenor or something?
Yes I do.

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:40 pm

Why did he think they might be using tallow?

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Jon O'Neill » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:02 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:Why did he think they might be using tallow?
Because it's in plastic bags? Dunno. He's weird about stuff. You guys would get on.

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Zarte Siempre » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:36 am

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Why did he think they might be using tallow?
Because it's in plastic bags? Dunno. He's weird about stuff. You guys would get on.
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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Marc Meakin » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:17 am

I hope he isn't one of those vegan weirdos who put their dog or cat a meat free diet
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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Paul Worsley » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:16 am

I used to get asked about animal products in prescribed medication. Capsules are made from gelatin, so vegans would ask if they were available in tablet form. Then someone found out that gelatin can also be used in the film coating of some tablets. The information was not freely available and usually involved contacting the manufacturers, which could be time consuming, as the people who gave out information on the drugs often didn't know either.
I think it would be best if vegans were not issued with antibiotics on the NHS, but just handed some healing crystals instead.

Apparently, most proseccos aren't vegan either.

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Re: New fivers not meat-free

Post by Ian Volante » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:06 pm

Paul Worsley wrote: I think it would be best if vegans were not issued with antibiotics on the NHS, but just handed some healing crystals instead.

Apparently, most proseccos aren't vegan either.
Seems like you're lumping vegans in with nutjobs such as homeopaths, somewhat harsh I'd say. And yes, isinglass and the like.
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