Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

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Steven M. McCann
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Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Steven M. McCann » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:28 am

Got to be Tyson Fury surely, beating a Champion who had held the title for 11 years in his own backyard, magnificent achievement.
Lewis Hamilton? easily had the best car, enough said.
Jessica Ennis-Hill? very well done, but her two main rivals handed the World Title to her on a plate, by imploding.
Andy Murray? so he almost singlehandedly won the Davis Cup for GB, apart from hardcore tennis fans, does anyone really care?, most of the top players didn't bother with it, this year anyway.
Greg Rutherford?the attention seeking mediocre long jumper (who only wins medals, because the worlds top sprinters don't do the long jump anymore!) was threatening to withdraw from this years list because he didn't like some of Mr. Fury's comments, but he's not withdrawing now and is clearly hoping to profit, by people who might have been offended by Mr. Fury's comments voting for him to protest!

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by JimBentley » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:48 am

Steven M. McCann wrote:Got to be Tyson Fury surely, beating a Champion who had held the title for 11 years in his own backyard, magnificent achievement.
Lewis Hamilton? easily had the best car, enough said.
Jessica Ennis-Hill? very well done, but her two main rivals handed the World Title to her on a plate, by imploding.
Andy Murray? so he almost singlehandedly won the Davis Cup for GB, apart from hardcore tennis fans, does anyone really care?, most of the top players didn't bother with it, this year anyway.
Greg Rutherford?the attention seeking mediocre long jumper (who only wins medals, because the worlds top sprinters don't do the long jump anymore!) was threatening to withdraw from this years list because he didn't like some of Mr. Fury's comments, but he's not withdrawing now and is clearly hoping to profit, by people who might have been offended by Mr. Fury's comments voting for him to protest!
I'm not sure I understood all that but I think the gist was that Tyson Fury should win.

Now come on Steven, first frame your terms of reference. Are we celebrating sporting achievement, or personality? And if the latter, what sort of personality? The most outrageous personality? The least offensive personality? Maybe some sort of sliding rod system where the amount of outrage you cause in the media is counteracted by the quantity of people you've offended? That's just weird. You're weird.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Steven M. McCann » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:05 am

As I'm sure you well know Jim, this award has always suffered from having "Personality" in it's title rather than something more suitable, like as you say "Achievement" or maybe "Performance".
Ironically enough it might be Mr. Fury's "personality" that may rob him of the honour, for what was an outstanding sporting achievement!
I can assure you of one thing, Mr. Fury (with his Irish links) will get a very warm reception from the Belfast audience, when the shows broadcast live from here on Dec 20th, we're very tolerant over here!
It almost goes without saying, loads of assholes have won the award, so "Personality" shouldn't really come into it!

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Jennifer Steadman » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:41 am

Steven M. McCann wrote:Ironically enough it might be Mr. Fury's "personality" that may rob him of the honour, for what was an outstanding sporting achievement!
Yeah, I agree with this. The award is for the sportsperson "whose actions have most captured the public's imagination" and you can't deny that, even if Fury's grotesque comments have overshadowed the achievement in the last few days, him beating Klitschko was for a few days a huge talking point.

But I'd give it to Jess Ennis-Hill personally. To be world champ in an event that requires excellence in multiple disciplines is IMO way more impressive than excelling at just one sport; to do so just over a year after giving birth is even more impressive. And her win at the World Championships was also a public talking point. Her rivals imploding doesn't detract from the achievement for me.
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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Jon O'Neill » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:38 am

Jennifer Steadman wrote:
Steven M. McCann wrote:Ironically enough it might be Mr. Fury's "personality" that may rob him of the honour, for what was an outstanding sporting achievement!
Yeah, I agree with this. The award is for the sportsperson "whose actions have most captured the public's imagination" and you can't deny that, even if Fury's grotesque comments have overshadowed the achievement in the last few days, him beating Klitschko was for a few days a huge talking point.

But I'd give it to Jess Ennis-Hill personally. To be world champ in an event that requires excellence in multiple disciplines is IMO way more impressive than excelling at just one sport; to do so just over a year after giving birth is even more impressive. And her win at the World Championships was also a public talking point. Her rivals imploding doesn't detract from the achievement for me.
And she slaps up well.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Mark James » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:12 pm

Steven M. McCann wrote:Got to be Tyson Fury surely, beating a Champion who had held the title for 11 years in his own backyard
In what way was it in his own backyard? The fight was in Germany. Klitschko is Ukranian.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Jon Corby » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:07 pm

Mark James wrote:
Steven M. McCann wrote:Got to be Tyson Fury surely, beating a Champion who had held the title for 11 years in his own backyard
In what way was it in his own backyard? The fight was in Germany. Klitschko is Ukranian.
No, he held the title for 11 years in his own backyard. It was in his shed.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Ian Volante » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:54 pm

Hoping to get Sir Kev into the top 3 at least.
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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Steven M. McCann » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:33 pm

The vast majority of Wladimar Klitschko's fights over the last 19 years or so have been in Germany (where boxing is still very popular) hence he's build up a huge German following.
Up until the Tyson Fury fight he had only previously lost once in his adopted homeland.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:10 pm

Jennifer Steadman-Hill wrote:But I'd give it to Jess Ennis-Hill personally. To be world champ in an event that requires excellence in multiple disciplines is IMO way more impressive than excelling at just one sport; to do so just over a year after giving birth is even more impressive. And her win at the World Championships was also a public talking point. Her rivals imploding doesn't detract from the achievement for me.
I'm not sure I agree with this. Obviously in a heptathlon you need to be good at several disciplines, but you don't have to reach anywhere near the same standard as athletes who specialise in one, so it's not more impressive. Also the standard is lower. Most athletes don't go in for this sort of thing as a first choice. It's general for athletes who are good, but not quite good enough at one particular event. And also if you look at her performances in the individual events at the world championships, they were much worse than at the Olympics in 2012. In virtually any other sport, that level of drop off would mean you wouldn't even be remotely competitive let alone winning.

There was talk that Jenson Button might try to make the British triathlon Olympic team for 2016 if he didn't get the McLaren drive this year. (He does triathlons anyway, but not at Olympic level.) My first thought was - yeah but would he be good enough? If, however, he announced that he was going to try and the make the Olympic team for any of the individual events (swimming, cycling, running), my thoughts would be more like - yeah, but there's no fucking way he's going to be good enough. It's just so unlikely that some random F1 driver is going to have the physical ability to be one of the best in the world at one of these events. And that's the difference right there.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by JimBentley » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:55 pm

Jennifer Steadman wrote:But I'd give it to Jess Ennis-Hill personally.
Me too, or maybe Andy Murray. I've never voted for one of these before but I'm quite tempted to vote for Tyson Fury just for mischief's sake.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Ian Volante » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:40 pm

Ian Volante wrote:Hoping to get Sir Kev into the top 3 at least.
And that's what the bookies seem to be thinking too.
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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by JimBentley » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:49 pm

Ian Volante wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:Hoping to get Sir Kev into the top 3 at least.
And that's what the bookies seem to be thinking too.
It's an interesting move, but at (best odds I can see) 12/1 he's so far behind Murray and Ennis-Hill (11/10, 2/1 best I can find right now) that unless there's a concerted attempt to rig the vote, he's not winning with either the bookies or the public.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Ian Volante » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:02 pm

JimBentley wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:Hoping to get Sir Kev into the top 3 at least.
And that's what the bookies seem to be thinking too.
It's an interesting move, but at (best odds I can see) 12/1 he's so far behind Murray and Ennis-Hill (11/10, 2/1 best I can find right now) that unless there's a concerted attempt to rig the vote, he's not winning with either the bookies or the public.
Aye, exactly as expected.
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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:12 am

It's not surprising that Andy Murray won, nor that Jessica Ennis-Hill was high up in third place. I think Mo Farah has been hard done by though. He's a far more impressive athlete. I mean Ennis-Hill is one of the most successful track and field athletes we have in the UK right now, but Farah is a contender for the best British athlete ever.

But the big surprise (for me) is Kevin Sinfield coming second. I mean, who's even heard of him? Presumably there must have been a well-run campaign to get votes for him.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Steven M. McCann » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:50 am

Well what a shock, the BBC got the exact result they wanted, Andy Murray undeservedly winning and Tyson Fury not in the first three (he was 4th) funny that?
Andy basically was the Davis Cup team, so why did the BBC need to give the GB Team "bit part players" the team of the year award on top of Andy's individual honour?
The comedy highlight was "Coach of the Year" N Ireland Manager Michael O'Neill saying "the Northern Irish public really get behind their team" Nationalist soccer fans in the north nearly all support the Republic of Ireland's team and couldn't give a toss about the N. Ireland side.
I think Mo Farah is now tainted in the eyes of the public, which would explain his poor showing.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:40 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: But the big surprise (for me) is Kevin Sinfield coming second. I mean, who's even heard of him? Presumably there must have been a well-run campaign to get votes for him.
A lot more people now! Well he's won everything to be won in his sport, broken scoring records, played many times for his country, and is generally a very nice bloke. One of the greatest ever, nominated for similar reasons to Giggs a few years ago I suppose.

Also had a tear in my eye for Danny Jones's widow singing, nice of them to ask her to do that.
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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by JimBentley » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:39 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:...but Farah is a contender for the best British athlete ever.
I don't get this and I don't get why it's being pushed so hard by the media. He's occupying much the same position now as Bekele was ten years ago (and Bekele had a lot more competition, given that he and virtually everyone else was caning the EPO back then), or Gebreselassie ten years before that. Nobody would seek to belittle this, but best British athlete ever? Maybe if he suddenly breaks the world 5,000m, 10,000m and marathon records he'll come into contention, but I don't see him anywhere near yet.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:05 pm

JimBentley wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:...but Farah is a contender for the best British athlete ever.
I don't get this and I don't get why it's being pushed so hard by the media. He's occupying much the same position now as Bekele was ten years ago (and Bekele had a lot more competition, given that he and virtually everyone else was caning the EPO back then), or Gebreselassie ten years before that. Nobody would seek to belittle this, but best British athlete ever? Maybe if he suddenly breaks the world 5,000m, 10,000m and marathon records he'll come into contention, but I don't see him anywhere near yet.
I didn't know it was being pushed hard by the media.

But anyway, I don't see why Bekele dominating the event (and Gebreselassie before him) has much or any bearing on this. The fact is that Mo Farah has dominated the 5000m and 10000m in a way that no British athlete has ever dominated any event. OK, he hasn't got a world record (unless you count indoor records), but that's not the be all and end all. If he did beat the 5000m or 10000m world record, then I don't think he'll merely be in contention - I can't really see any meaningful argument against (other than any drug suspicions and him "not really being British"). It's also virtually impossible to set a world record in the post EPO world.

Which British athlete could be considered as greatest? Sebastian Coe? Maybe, but despite his longstanding 800m record, he never won a global title at that distance. Yes, he won the 1500m at the Olympics twice, but that's not a patch on Mo's championship record. So is a single performance in June of 1981 enough to make him the greatest British athlete of all time? I don't think so. And he was probably on drugs anyway, and he never got closer than 0.6 seconds to that record time, and his third best time was 1.34 seconds slower. Also, if times are important, Mo Farah has a better time over 1500m (not an event he really competes at) than Coe does. Coe also later became a Tory MP which massively counts against him as you well know.

Jonathan Edwards? Just think of how many people go into running compared to the triple jump. He won three global titles, which is good but still not Mo level even if does still have the world record - at one of the least competitive track and field events.

Daley Thompson? Jack of all trades...
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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by sean d » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:17 pm

Steven M. McCann wrote:As I'm sure you well know Jim, this award has always suffered from having "Personality" in it's title rather than something more suitable, like as you say "Achievement" or maybe "Performance".
Ironically enough it might be Mr. Fury's "personality" that may rob him of the honour, for what was an outstanding sporting achievement!
I can assure you of one thing, Mr. Fury (with his Irish links) will get a very warm reception from the Belfast audience, when the shows broadcast live from here on Dec 20th, we're very tolerant over here!It almost goes without saying, loads of assholes have won the award, so "Personality" shouldn't really come into it!
Comedic post of the year right there, gg wp.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by JimBentley » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:40 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
JimBentley wrote:I don't get this and I don't get why it's being pushed so hard by the media
I didn't know it was being pushed hard by the media.
Maybe it's just me, but I've heard it put forward more times than I can count (granted, I can only count up to ten but I don't see what that has to do with anything right now) which is probably five or six more times than is warranted. I can understand the BBC doing it as they have a vested interest but I've also heard it from normally rational people who are old enough to know better.
Gavin Chipper wrote:But anyway, I don't see why Bekele dominating the event (and Gebreselassie before him) has much or any bearing on this.
Why ever not? My point was that these events can easily be dominated, so Mo Farah's current domination isn't reason enough to make him Britain's greatest sportsman.
Gavin Chipper wrote:Which British athlete could be considered as greatest? Sebastian Coe? Maybe, but despite his longstanding 800m record, he never won a global title at that distance. Yes, he won the 1500m at the Olympics twice, but that's not a patch on Mo's championship record. So is a single performance in June of 1981 enough to make him the greatest British athlete of all time? I don't think so. And he was probably on drugs anyway, and he never got closer than 0.6 seconds to that record time, and his third best time was 1.34 seconds slower. Also, if times are important, Mo Farah has a better time over 1500m (not an event he really competes at) than Coe does. Coe also later became a Tory MP which massively counts against him as you well know.

Jonathan Edwards? Just think of how many people go into running compared to the triple jump. He won three global titles, which is good but still not Mo level even if does still have the world record - at one of the least competitive track and field events.

Daley Thompson? Jack of all trades...
Obviously all these suggestions are absurd, but I think you largely intended them to be, but nevertheless: Coe - no, Edwards - no, Thompson - I would at least have him in consideration, so yes.

Also everyone knows that Britain's greatest athlete was actually Alf Tupper, the Tough of the Track.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:55 pm

JimBentley wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:But anyway, I don't see why Bekele dominating the event (and Gebreselassie before him) has much or any bearing on this.
Why ever not? My point was that these events can easily be dominated, so Mo Farah's current domination isn't reason enough to make him Britain's greatest sportsman.
It's never easy to dominate an event. You have to be the best at it by some margin. I don't see why that should be any easier for 5000m and 10000m than anything else. It's likely to be coincidence as much as anything else. Having said that, I suppose for long distances, less is down to chance. There's no "skill" in running, and with no important start to mess up and no real technique to get wrong, it's just a case of not messing up your pacing. But even taking this into account, I don't see anyone else that's been consistently at the top for so long.
Obviously all these suggestions are absurd, but I think you largely intended them to be, but nevertheless: Coe - no, Edwards - no, Thompson - I would at least have him in consideration, so yes.

Also everyone knows that Britain's greatest athlete was actually Alf Tupper, the Tough of the Track.
OK. Alf Tupper it is. But other than that, is Thompson your pick, or is he one of a shortlist? Who else would be on it?

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by JimBentley » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:52 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:It's never easy to dominate an event.
Bad choice of words by me, yes. I didn't really mean it to come out like that, as (in an alternate universe) Rolf Harris might have said. Maybe I meant that the long distance track events have a recent history of being dominated? or something
Gavin Chipper wrote:...is Thompson your pick, or is he one of a shortlist? Who else would be on it?
Depends. I think you need to define your criteria first; for instance, should a better (faster, longer, whatever) performance automatically be considered ahead of an earlier, possibly more influential performance? e.g.would 9.95 seconds for 100m in 2015 be considered "better" than 10.05 seconds for 100m in 1975? Or is impact of more importance? What if one coincides with the other?

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:35 am

JimBentley wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:...is Thompson your pick, or is he one of a shortlist? Who else would be on it?
Depends. I think you need to define your criteria first; for instance, should a better (faster, longer, whatever) performance automatically be considered ahead of an earlier, possibly more influential performance? e.g.would 9.95 seconds for 100m in 2015 be considered "better" than 10.05 seconds for 100m in 1975? Or is impact of more importance? What if one coincides with the other?
Well yes - greatness isn't one clearly defined thing (as I think was probably discussed on the greatest sportsman ever thread from a few years ago). So you might give more weight to outright times/distances etc., or times/distances relative to the opponents of the day, or general performances in competitions. Being top in one of these criteria would mean that someone would make my shortlist, and Mo Farah would make my shortlist on the basis of performances in competitions. If he set a world record, then he'd have it all.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:21 pm

JimBentley wrote:He's occupying much the same position now as Bekele was ten years ago
Interestingly Mo Farah is less than a year younger than Bekele.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by JimBentley » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:26 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
JimBentley wrote:He's occupying much the same position now as Bekele was ten years ago
Interestingly Mo Farah is less than a year younger than Bekele.
If you take Bekele's age at face value, that is, which I definitely don't.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:48 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:05 pm
JimBentley wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:...but Farah is a contender for the best British athlete ever.
I don't get this and I don't get why it's being pushed so hard by the media. He's occupying much the same position now as Bekele was ten years ago (and Bekele had a lot more competition, given that he and virtually everyone else was caning the EPO back then), or Gebreselassie ten years before that. Nobody would seek to belittle this, but best British athlete ever? Maybe if he suddenly breaks the world 5,000m, 10,000m and marathon records he'll come into contention, but I don't see him anywhere near yet.
I didn't know it was being pushed hard by the media.

But anyway, I don't see why Bekele dominating the event (and Gebreselassie before him) has much or any bearing on this. The fact is that Mo Farah has dominated the 5000m and 10000m in a way that no British athlete has ever dominated any event. OK, he hasn't got a world record (unless you count indoor records), but that's not the be all and end all. If he did beat the 5000m or 10000m world record, then I don't think he'll merely be in contention - I can't really see any meaningful argument against (other than any drug suspicions and him "not really being British"). It's also virtually impossible to set a world record in the post EPO world.

Which British athlete could be considered as greatest? Sebastian Coe? Maybe, but despite his longstanding 800m record, he never won a global title at that distance. Yes, he won the 1500m at the Olympics twice, but that's not a patch on Mo's championship record. So is a single performance in June of 1981 enough to make him the greatest British athlete of all time? I don't think so. And he was probably on drugs anyway, and he never got closer than 0.6 seconds to that record time, and his third best time was 1.34 seconds slower. Also, if times are important, Mo Farah has a better time over 1500m (not an event he really competes at) than Coe does. Coe also later became a Tory MP which massively counts against him as you well know.

Jonathan Edwards? Just think of how many people go into running compared to the triple jump. He won three global titles, which is good but still not Mo level even if does still have the world record - at one of the least competitive track and field events.

Daley Thompson? Jack of all trades...
Anyway, it seems that the British public got round to reading this post eventually.

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Re: Sports Personality Of The Year 2015.

Post by Marc Meakin » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:31 pm

He is certainly our favourite drugs cheat, allegedly. I see Froome was 6th.
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